Stats back this up as well, for what it's worth. Shaw is better across most metrics, albeit very narrowly in some cases.Shaw is absolutely miles better than Telles on the ball.
Potential Ten Hag XI's
- Thread starter Ramshock
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What is Telles actually better at? I presume even you'll admit that Shaw has a far better first touch and is a better passer than Telles? Those things are so one-sided that if you disagree there then we're simply watching a different sport. Carrying the ball forward is closer but if Shaw's in even decent form he's better. Crossing is supposedly Telles strength, but what we've seen this season is just constant crosses to nobody. Shaw normally isn't great there himself either (although he was last season), so if you want to give that to Telles then I can at least understand that, although I'd probably still give the edge to Shaw.
Agree 100%. The fact Shaw keeps the likes of Chilwell out of the England XI seems to make no difference to this forum. Mourinho had a bit of a pop at Shaw five seasons ago, so that's it now in their head. Plus there's probably some Twitter moron with 500K followers who doesn't like Shaw or something.Shaw is absolutely miles better than Telles on the ball.
Other than not trusting his right foot to do anything but stand on, Shaw is brilliant on the ball for a fullback. Probably has the best first touch on the team and is a very good passer, and last season at least he also showed he could be a very good crosser. If he gets his shit together he's literally one of the best left backs in the world. He's one that I'm looking forward to seeing if Ten Hag (if he is the manager) can get into that form consistently, and if not then it's time to write him off.
Telles just hits and hopes with his crosses. He puts a huge amount in there but almost all of them are to no-one. He has 2 assists in in 20 matches this season. Shaw, despite being in shit form, has 5 in 27.
In reality, there is no Universe in which Telles is better than Luke Shaw. Decent alternative from time-to-time, but that's it.
Same with Dalot really. Whatever people think of AWB, Dalot's just a very, very, very average footballer who shouldn't be near the starting XI of a team hoping to compete for top honours.
Some of our players get worse by association (Shaw, Maguire, AWB, McTominay etc....) because they play regularly in this shambles of a side, whilst some players get better in the minds of the caf because they don't play regularly (van de Beek, Bailly, Dalot, Telles). When they DO play, we're generally reminded why they DON'T play very often....
Not sure if I agree with that one. Dalot is average at pretty much everything, while AWB is better at some things but terrible at others. Neither are anywhere near good enough IMO, but I think Dalot would look better in a dominant controlling team while AWB would only look worse.
Excellent post and I wholeheartedly agree.
Although, I would add that Shaw was very bad at the start of this season, in terms of his usually reliable defending. Chuck in a couple stories of dressing room leaks, Maguire and Rashford being out of form, Shaw got lumped in with them as some sort of supposed clique. I doubt the 3 of them have anything in common or are close friends, but they all play for England together, so people put two and two together and get seven.
I mean that's a bit ridiculous. Ten Hag can work with different players. Why wouldn't he like someone like Fred? Bruno, who is essentially equivalent to what Ziyech was under him in style? Fullbacks are valid but Shaw and Dalot are decent enough that I think he could make it work (particularly Shaw if he goes back to last season's Shaw and not this season). Both are very comfortable in possession and with progressing the ball up the pitch which Ten Hag would love. Just need the confidence.
3 new goalkeepers? You only use 1, and it so happens that we have 1 that he tried to sign to be a starter at Ajax
Everyone knows we need a new DM, RW and Striker. Saying the squad isn't suited to him is complete bullshit tbh. He'll need to adjust it of course over time. But there are plenty of pieces that suit him just fine.
Even going through a starting 11, it's really just 3 players that we straight up don't have to be able to suit him:
- GK - Henderson, Ten Hag tried to sign him for Ajax. Do back up goalkeepers actually matter much?
- RB - Dalot is stylistically the right type of player, just not a high enough level. Will need addressing, but probably fine to get by with.
- CB - Maguire/Varane/Lindelof as you say would be fine
- LB - Shaw of 20/21 was a monster with his ball progression with passing and dribbling and was reliable in consistency, fitness and defensively. If he doesn't get back to that level then yes of course it'll be a problem position.
- DM - nobody who fits, though I'm sure he'd use McTominay or Matic as depth guys if needed but yeah we need someone here.
- CM - Fred with his work rate, pressing, quick link up play would for sure be loved. Van de Beek is literally in our squad too.
- CAM - Bruno is essentially what Ziyech was for Ajax, but in the prem and right footed. No reason to think ETH wouldn't like him.
- Wing - Sancho of course as you said. Rashford as a squad player i think would be useful if he got back in form as a wide forward. Elanga as well as further depth. Missing other side though.
- Striker - don't have anything that fits
And besides - step 1 isn't competing with Liverpool and City. Its a full rebuild, he's gotta get us into being a good team first of all before we can even think about being the best team in Europe. The rest is on him to show he can take us to a level to compete with the best teams and be one of the best teams.
Donny will get a chance for sure. So he can finally prove he's good enough for United. Because he'll finally be used in the correct way. I think he is good enough, but there's actually no way to know at this point
it's just a way to say that the whole squad needs to be revamped, buying an actually Premier League title challenging squad from scratch will probably cost around a billion dollars
He will resurrect VdB.
Something I find interesting is that we all assume he will try to replicate his Ajax side and are trying to find players to play the same roles as their counterparts from Ajax. But he might look at the personnel and amend the tactics he's been using lately. His current side play differently from the team that got to the Champion's League semis. Maybe he will come here and mix things up.
Really don't know how you could have an XI with only ten hags.
Yeah he's always shown he will adapt to the new players he has, but stylistically it remained relatively constant. That's for me the sign of a good coach. He loses key players but is able to change the system while still maintaining the philosophy.
There is value in matching up what sorts of players he has used in the past to what we have though.
I think he will try and implement a style similar to pep at city. It will be good if he came with different ideas though and having more then 1 plan. Although pep only ever sticks to one plan really and that is to tire the opposition out by keeping hold of the ball and trying to look for openings. Wonder if ten Hag goes 4-3-3 with 2 attacking mids and 1 sitting or 4-2-3-1. Hopefully not with 2 dms though.
Agree. I'm amazed anyone thinks Telles is any good. He's been Buttner level.Shaw is absolutely miles better than Telles on the ball.
Other than not trusting his right foot to do anything but stand on, Shaw is brilliant on the ball for a fullback. Probably has the best first touch on the team and is a very good passer, and last season at least he also showed he could be a very good crosser. If he gets his shit together he's literally one of the best left backs in the world. He's one that I'm looking forward to seeing if Ten Hag (if he is the manager) can get into that form consistently, and if not then it's time to write him off.
Telles just hits and hopes with his crosses. He puts a huge amount in there but almost all of them are to no-one. He has 2 assists in in 20 matches this season. Shaw, despite being in shit form, has 5 in 27.
I'am not believe that we will change our XI dramatically. (~120m euro budget)
The core will be Rashy Sancho and Bruno, so the line-up will be.
De Gea
Shaw
Varane
Timber 30m euro
Dalot
New CM (Haidara, Boubacar Kamara < 20m euro)
McTominay
Bruno
Sancho
Rashford
Darwin 70m euro
The core will be Rashy Sancho and Bruno, so the line-up will be.
De Gea
Shaw
Varane
Timber 30m euro
Dalot
New CM (Haidara, Boubacar Kamara < 20m euro)
McTominay
Bruno
Sancho
Rashford
Darwin 70m euro
I would love to see Connor Gallagher here. He is a perfect box to box midfielder, he is hungry young and motivated. I think all our full backs (bar maybe shaw) are nowhere near good enough. We so desperately need to sell/ditch the dead wood. Ie Jones, Bailey, dalot, telles, matic, pogba, rashford, Cavan, ronaldo, lingard, mata, martial.
give ETH full control of his targets as he knows what type of players suit his system.
Henderson
New Rb -varane- New CB - new LB/shaw
Bruno - new DM - Gallagher/DVB
Sancho - New Striker - New LW
Whatever happens we need to trust ten hag. He will play a system that none of our players are used to to so they must adapt quickly or let ETH get players who suit him.
give ETH full control of his targets as he knows what type of players suit his system.
Henderson
New Rb -varane- New CB - new LB/shaw
Bruno - new DM - Gallagher/DVB
Sancho - New Striker - New LW
Whatever happens we need to trust ten hag. He will play a system that none of our players are used to to so they must adapt quickly or let ETH get players who suit him.
Shaw is miles better on the ball than TellesCan we come up with some good youth centred teams that Ten Hag, should they actually fckin hire him, could field that would actually be competitive enough to get into the CL? We can assume he will want one or two players from Ajax so I myself will be using Timber and Antony.
Try to pick at least 1 up and coming academy star in your first XI
This is the kind of line up I would predict Ten Hag to pick.
Obviously there would be restrictions like current pre Ten Hag United targets and the fact that a few
of Ten Hags best players at Ajax in Mazraoui and Gravenberch seemingly already on their way to Barca or Bayern.
Ive selected Henderson because Ajax and ETH were after him in the last transfer window but I wouldnt be surprised
if Dave keeps his place as he usually seems to do.
To me the full backs are still not up to quality but I think he would pick the two best players on the ball. I cannot see him liking Shaw or AWB at all.
Shaw has had a horrendous season no arguments there, but he's still fairly young and has brilliant technique. Ten Hag will absolutely give him a chance to get back to his best before signing a new LB.
He still can be but he's also our best LW option as well so...
He’s a 4-3-3, possession centred manager who plays with aggressive full backs. On that note, I presume it’ll be:
DDG
Dalot Timber Varane Shaw
Phillips
Bruno Donny
Sancho Nunez/Ron Rashford
Going by reports, it feels like we’ll only be signing a CB, CM and striker this summer, and the strongest links in those positions so far have been Timber, Phillips and Nunez respectively. Nunez rotating with Ronaldo should be excellent for one season, and I think he’ll be delighted to try to get the best out of lads like Dalot as an attacking full back and Donny again. Rashford starting next season still as first choice would be disappointing after this season, but we won’t be signing 4 players under this awful ownership, so there’s not really any option. He might fancy Martial’s ability to hold the ball on his day, but it’s hardly ever Martial’s day anymore.
Also, I’ve people call for DDG’s culling next season. You’ve got to be mental. We won’t be signing a goalkeeper anytime soon and Dave has been brilliant this season anyway as a shot stopper. It’s not like he doesn’t have world class distribution in him too, because it was there under Fergie, Moyes and LvG. You don’t just lose the ability to pass, and a progressive, ball-loving manager like ten Hag should get that out of him.
DDG
Dalot Timber Varane Shaw
Phillips
Bruno Donny
Sancho Nunez/Ron Rashford
Going by reports, it feels like we’ll only be signing a CB, CM and striker this summer, and the strongest links in those positions so far have been Timber, Phillips and Nunez respectively. Nunez rotating with Ronaldo should be excellent for one season, and I think he’ll be delighted to try to get the best out of lads like Dalot as an attacking full back and Donny again. Rashford starting next season still as first choice would be disappointing after this season, but we won’t be signing 4 players under this awful ownership, so there’s not really any option. He might fancy Martial’s ability to hold the ball on his day, but it’s hardly ever Martial’s day anymore.
Also, I’ve people call for DDG’s culling next season. You’ve got to be mental. We won’t be signing a goalkeeper anytime soon and Dave has been brilliant this season anyway as a shot stopper. It’s not like he doesn’t have world class distribution in him too, because it was there under Fergie, Moyes and LvG. You don’t just lose the ability to pass, and a progressive, ball-loving manager like ten Hag should get that out of him.
I'd like to see supersmart bargain signings, adding squad depth, bringing fresh blood and correct mindset to the team. I think his first year has maximum 4 signings - rightback, midfielder, a striker and a winger. All 4 signings 120 mil maximum.
I’m surprised to see Fred out of the team. He won’t be.
I also think Shaw will be part of it.
Interesting ones will be Maguire, the RB spot and I think a marquee CF and CM.
Also except a few smaller signings.
With the youngsters surely Garner is best placed?
I also think Shaw will be part of it.
Interesting ones will be Maguire, the RB spot and I think a marquee CF and CM.
Also except a few smaller signings.
With the youngsters surely Garner is best placed?
De Gea
Laird (Dalot) Varanne Lindelof (new CB as cover) Malacia (Shaw)
Timber (new DCM as cover)
2 from Fred, Mejbri, Garner)
Antony Ronaldo ( new younger CF as Back up) Sancho
Elenga and Garnacho and Rashford as cover
Laird (Dalot) Varanne Lindelof (new CB as cover) Malacia (Shaw)
Timber (new DCM as cover)
2 from Fred, Mejbri, Garner)
Antony Ronaldo ( new younger CF as Back up) Sancho
Elenga and Garnacho and Rashford as cover
to compete with Pep's City and Klopp's Guardiola?
Their point was that you can't compete with those two of the greatest teams in history regardless so you're doomed to fail
They are in their peaks right now but will decline as all great teams do. Ten Hag has to rebuild us and if he does that, the rest will take care of itself. There's no reason why City or Liverpool are the 2 best teams in the world right now other than Pep and Klopp, and their teams being at their peaks right now. Ten Hag will try to compete with them or he just has to time the peak of his new squad to coincide with the decline of City and Liverpool. Besides, Pep and Klopp won't stay for too long anyway. Klopp I think is gone in 2024?
Eh?
ETH doesn't have to compete with today's City and Liverpool. He has to compete with the City and Liverpool of two or three years from now. Which likely won't involve Guardiola at least.
His immediate job will be beating out the likes of Arsenal and Spurs to CL football. And that's very doable as a short term aim.
Oh you’re relating to this. Sounds ridiculous if I’m honest. Plenty of work needed yes but that totally discounts any improvements made to the current players and utilising any of our younger players.
Tbf those two do need to get a room.
If he can survive at the club at that point despite competing for at most 3rd place, and very possibly no prizes, and with a squad of which at most 4 players are right for his system and of the required level
hahaha oops
Even if Guardiola and Klopp stay I would still like to believe that if Ten Hag is good enough to extract maximum out of the players and United come up with some smart recruitment and build team capable of hitting 90 points then there is always a chance to compete and win , things look quite bleak right now but it can always change quickly .
Fixed
He will not spend heavily on Rice. My guess is we will bring in;Can we come up with some good youth centred teams that Ten Hag, should they actually fckin hire him, could field that would actually be competitive enough to get into the CL? We can assume he will want one or two players from Ajax so I myself will be using Timber and Antony.
Try to pick at least 1 up and coming academy star in your first XI
This is the kind of line up I would predict Ten Hag to pick.
Obviously there would be restrictions like current pre Ten Hag United targets and the fact that a few
of Ten Hags best players at Ajax in Mazraoui and Gravenberch seemingly already on their way to Barca or Bayern.
Ive selected Henderson because Ajax and ETH were after him in the last transfer window but I wouldnt be surprised
if Dave keeps his place as he usually seems to do.
To me the full backs are still not up to quality but I think he would pick the two best players on the ball. I cannot see him liking Shaw or AWB at all.
- two cheap option in midfield (Kamara or Ruiz?)
- a physical (in terms of pace and agility) CB (Kounde?)
- a new full back (Timber or Raum?)
- a new attacker (no idea, but different type of players like Nkunku, Richarlison, Antony, Oshimen and Nunez could all be options)
Pace, agility and willingness to press will probably be key features in all position, but maybe less so in central midfield.
This is just stupid. Nobody expects him to compete with City or Liverpool in first two or even 3 seasons. If he manages to make United a stable top 4 team after first three seasons and have a good run in some cup competition I would say that this would be a success.
And it is quite clear whoever new manager is we need new fullbacks, at least 2 midfielders and at least 2 new attackers and possibly a new goal keeper.
I think the most depressing thing about this is that most people still want to see Bruno in the #10. He is not a midfielder. Play him on the wing. 4-2-3-1 is almost as outdated as a 4-4-2 and he doesn't work in a midfield 3. 4-3-3 with Bruno on the wing, or don't start him at all...
Shaw is better on the ball than Telles though?
-------------------------------- Nunez ----------------------------
Sancho ----------------- Nkunku ----------------- Antony
--------------------- Fred ------------- Kamara -------------------
Shaw --------- Akanji -------- Varane ------- Timber
--------------------------------- De Gea -----------------------------
For next season
Sancho ----------------- Nkunku ----------------- Antony
--------------------- Fred ------------- Kamara -------------------
Shaw --------- Akanji -------- Varane ------- Timber
--------------------------------- De Gea -----------------------------
For next season
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