Hazard's issue seems like is his lack of professionalism and mostly relied on his natural talent. I remembered even Mourinho back then said "he is an amazing player with awful training" when Hazard was still at his peak.
Prime Hazard or Prime Salah?
- Thread starter tentan
- Start date
Hazard had an effortless beauty and grace when he was running at people and dribbling with the ball.
But Salah is on another level, amount of goals, types of goals, scores against all levels of opposition from the “stoke on cold Wednesday night in January” to prem and CL rivals”
All I can say about Salah is imagine if he was English, the media hype would be times 1000 and for once it might come close to the hype matching reality, take off a couple of 100 for when they’d compare him to Ronaldo and Messi needs more seasons and top awards for to even be mentioned in that breath.
Funny you should say this because I was just thinking that there’s never been an English player in my recollection that has gotten serious best in the world shouts, even the nebulous ‘on form’ variety. Except maybe Rooney when he had that really prolific season, I seem to recall that a few people were touting him as the best back then.
Think it was around 2009 when Rooney was compared to Messi.
I think every poster English player ends up getting called “the best in the world” I remember when a few journalist would, matter of factly, refer to Joe Hart as the best keeper in the world, more recently Kane was often been mentioned as the best player in the world now that Messi and Ronaldo are getting on.
Two different positions. Phillips is a striker, Bergkamp was never an out an out goal scorer or even striker … in fact in todays world I wonder where Bergkamp would fit. He was not a number 10 that could fit in a 4231, and obviously being flunked wide in a 433 would waste him, but doesn’t score enough to be the middle guy in 433.. suppose a top manager like Klopp would play him as a false 9, similar to Firminho, and he’s flicks and passes would play the wide players into goal. But then his goal out put would decrease even more and even less chances to score those unforgettable goals
Salah has some way to go to catch up to Hazard. Let's not forget Hazard won 3 Player of the year awards in France and carried Lille to the title at age 20 (scoring 20 goals).
Salah easily.
I sincerely don’t remember anyone calling Harry Kane the best player in the world and it would have been a ludicrous claim at any point in his career.
This.
Still
Hazard. He was a joy to watch, except when he was wrecking us. More unplayable than Salah when they're both at their best. Tbf, I also think they're quite different - Hazard could play much more a free role and as a creator as well as a finisher. Salah is more lethal in the box but his game is less well rounded than Hazard's.
I wouldn’t really compare prime Hazard to Prime Salah. They aren’t remotely the same player. Salah is a finisher; even his assists mostly come off touches he redirects in the very final third. Hazard was a ball carrier. Prime Hazard may have been the best player on the planet transitioning the ball from midfield into those final attacking positions.
The answer would change depending on who you paired them with. If you were pairing one of them with Prime Modric … Salah all day. But if pairing one with say, Prime Mane? I actually think a prime Hazard would be the more deadly combo.
The answer would change depending on who you paired them with. If you were pairing one of them with Prime Modric … Salah all day. But if pairing one with say, Prime Mane? I actually think a prime Hazard would be the more deadly combo.
I’m not so sure about that. Salah’s definitely peaked higher than Hazard at this point.
Salah easily for me
No, if we are talking about Messi then yes, Salah has some way to go, not Hazard.
Also what Hazard did at 20 doesn't matter. It's about their peak years. Salah's peak is as good or even better than Hazard.
Salah. Hazard might be the most overrated player in premier league history, and that doesn’t mean he wasn’t exceptional, it means fans say absurd things about how good he was that aren’t backed up consistently by his performances.
no change
Salah easily for me.
Easy answer Salah. More hard to answer, prime Salah or prime Robben
Salah is the more effective goalscorer in a team that is built to maximize his effectiveness. For Egypt when the onus is on him to carry the team he can't as he doesn't have the skillset to do so, and is reliant on his poorer teammates to create chances for him.
Hazard is the more talented footballer who played in mostly defensive counter attacking teams where the gameplan was usually 'pass to Hazard and pray'. Domestically he was fantastic but lacklustre in Europe overall. For Belgium KdB was better up until about 2015 where Hazard took over and was their best player consistently. Also the best player in the 2018 WC.
Effectiveness should only trump talent if said talented player doesn't win the honours (individually and as a team) that his talent suggests he should. In this case Hazard won multiple league titles and also multiple PoTYs which puts him above Salah. No one in their right mind would rank Lampard above Zidane because he statistically betters him. They both won everything there is to win so who was actually the better footballer should prevail.
Hazard is the more talented footballer who played in mostly defensive counter attacking teams where the gameplan was usually 'pass to Hazard and pray'. Domestically he was fantastic but lacklustre in Europe overall. For Belgium KdB was better up until about 2015 where Hazard took over and was their best player consistently. Also the best player in the 2018 WC.
Effectiveness should only trump talent if said talented player doesn't win the honours (individually and as a team) that his talent suggests he should. In this case Hazard won multiple league titles and also multiple PoTYs which puts him above Salah. No one in their right mind would rank Lampard above Zidane because he statistically betters him. They both won everything there is to win so who was actually the better footballer should prevail.
Salah in Liverpool is 100 times more dangerous than Salah in Egypt and it’s not hard to imagine why. Liverpool play in a kind of way that make it difficult for opposition such that if you focus on Salah and take your eyes off others like TAA, Robertson, Jota, etc you’ll get hurt.
Liverpool is a chance creation machine that keeps coming at you from all directions so Salah can pick his moments cleverly and get a good chance and then hurt you when you loose a bit of concentration because of everything that is going on around. And boy, Salah is good at maximizing these half chances - maybe the best in the world. But if you look at a team like Egypt, once Salah is closed down, because there’s not much happening elsewhere on the pitch, there is no danger at all.
The last AFCON where South Africa won Egypt it was the same story as yesterday as Nigeria marked out Salah out of the game. Hazard on the other hand was very difficult to be caged and while his numbers underwhelmed, his general play was almost always top notch. Football is so dynamic that it’s hard to make these sort of comparisons.
I still think there is some recency bias and over reliance on numbers in judging the two players but with that said, with the way Salah is going this season, I can easily rate him over Hazard.
Has to be Salah now - even though I'd argue Hazard was a better player on his day
Prime Robben for me without any doubt. Almost as good as the main two subjects.
Still?
Or Kevin Phillips above Bergkamp.
The ironic thing with Salah is the single biggest reasons he's got such a platform to shine so hard statistically is because Liverpool's actual centre forward sacrifices himself and plays as a perfect foil for him (and Mane) yet he gets little credit if not laughed at due to his scoring record.
That said I can understand the reasoning for favouring Salah as Hazard's UCL performances is a black mark against him but I find it really sad that so many people in the present day look at football through a spreadsheet.
Yep that’s a much better question. I’d probably lean Salah because Robben was always injury prone, but on his day Robben was absolutely sensational and probably the next best after Messi and Ron.
I was thinking about this too yesterday in the Eto'o / Drogba / Salah discussion. I think Salah has truly dominated the position he plays in and it's hard to find others that match him in it, PL and otherwise for me.
Prime Ribeye for me
Hazard was more naturally talented and a better footballer. Salah looks to have a better mentality and is a far better goalscorer. It feels wrong to say Salah because stylistically Hazard was on a different level. However, you just can't ignore the numbers that Salah puts up.
Salah has won the CL Hazard never did. By next Balon dor, I believe Salah will rank higher than Hazard ever did in his career. Hazard won 1 POTY and Salah has 1 already and odds on favourite to win a second by April
Zidane won the world cup and Euros, Lampard never did
Individual honors, team honors Salah is way ahead of Hazard
Salah's won two trophies since he's left Switzerland (four if you count CWC and the Uefa soccer aid).
Admittedly it was the two big ones but let's not pretend he's been some serial trophy winning magnet.
Exactly, as good as Salah is, we tend to forget that if it was not for Origi, he might have never been a UCL champion.
Cant we say this about every player in the world? Including Messi Ronaldo since football is a game of 11 players and everyone is expected to contribute.
2008 - As good as Ronaldo was that season he might never win the CL without Terry slip
2009 - As good as Messi was that season he might never win the CL without Ovbredo
We can go on
Yes ofcourse, but 2010/11 Messi in the semis and Cristiano against Bayern proved he doesn't need anyone. Those little steps matter a lot.
2011 Messi does not win the CL without RVP red card
2014 - Ronaldo doesnt win La Decima without Ramos header
2015 Messi doesnt win CL without Suarez and Neymars goals in the final
Any other year you want us to explore?
This is a joke, right?
Hazard:
8 major trophies (Ligue 1, Coupe de France, 2 X PL, 2 X EL, FA Cup, EFL Cup). (Not counting the La Liga title)
2 X Ligue 1 young POTY, 1 X PL POTY, 1 X EL best player, WC Silver ball
Salah:
4 major Trophies (2 X Swiss SL, PL, CL)
1 X SSL POTY, 1 X POTY, 2 X PL Golden Boot
What is there to laugh bro. Messi destroyed your team in semi finals of 2010/11. Those crucial moments matter. You guys had proved that if a correct plan is executed perfectly you could stop the Barcelona phenomenal team in the Copa final. Without Messi's goal and assist, which was pure individual magic, Barcelona would have found it difficult. Same with Cristiano and his relentless competitive edge and crucial goals, Madrid wouldn't have won the four UCL you guys won.
You really think Arsenal could have beaten 2010/11 Barcelona even with RVP? Barcelona absolutely owned them, despite that solid second half because of which Whilshere hype got unreal. 2015, if Messi didn't showed his magic in semifinal against Bayern, Barcelona were couldn't win shit. The point is what seperates Messi and Cristiano from others isn't just consistency and goals, but also their lion share in their team's success and dominance.
Hazard, not only has he won more but when he’s at his best he was unplayable… he could drive the ball from defence into the final third and always drew opposition players into fouling him. Salah is probably more lethal in front of goal but hazards game was a bit different as he created a lot aswell. Stop Salah from cutting in on his left foot and you’ll be alright. Hazard was unpredictable.