Come on, really? This is a rebuttal, to not read into something someone posts online? Dear christ. I’ll just stop here.The answer to your first question is in both of my last post to you, I explicitely stated it. As for the second paragraph, simply read what I wrote don't imagine what you want to read. I'll be honest with you, you are frustrating me to a point that you can't imagine.
To make it simple, in this context cartoons are like a book in a foreign language. In order to understand the book, you need to know how to read and you also need to understand that foreign language, which means that that book in a foreign language isn't appropriate for all audiences. That's the issue with cartoons, they very often refers to things that you need to know and understand beforehand, they hammer a point home but aren't the point itself, you need to build a base of knowledge in order to appreciate their content, otherwise they are just drawings that you may associate with feelings instead of knowledge, some steps can't be forgone.
So my point is that more often than not the immature audience needs to avoid that kind of content, they need to be taught the fundamentals, they need to be given a solid base that will allow them to understand later.
Well of course, context is everything. But we’re not talking about just black paint are we. We’re talking about mimicking black skin, and in the process dehumanising an entire race of people. A race that has been oppressed for centuries. What do Islam have backing up their offence? They just don’t like it?It's not but the idea that an action is simply the action and not loaded with a meaning is silly.
Again that's not an answer to the question asked. Do you think that putting petrol on a fire extinguish said fire?
I think it's pretty clear you are Islamophobic or bigoted.The problem is that any perceived insult to Muhammed can be the petrol to the fire. Part of the problem is that a violent interpretation of the Quran and the Hadiths are plausible, I don't say it's necessarily the correct interpretation, but its plausible, therefore I think it's very hard to imagine that there won't be a certain % of muslims even though a minority, but a number of the soon worlds largest religion is quite a lot who is going to make life miserable for everyone unless we bow to their demands and I don't think we should.
Yep. We’re basically debating how one’s different flavor of belief in fiction should be more important than another’s different belief in fiction. The whole debate is ultimately about fiction, but unfortunately adherence to different flavors of fiction can cause real life harm.More people seeking stuff to be offended about yawn.
Worlds gonna become such a boring sanitized place.
There is no way you can make any good argument for these people protesting and intimidating people outside a school, quicker people wise up to religion being a fairy tale the better (but thats for another thread)
I think it's pretty clear you are Islamophobic or bigoted.
Just to reiterate - these are school kids and their parents protesting at a school gate, in a little town in the North of England.
It's hardly mobilising 1.5bn Muslims across the globe..
That exact quote was about drawing Jesus or God, not priests.
This is what i said about the priests :
"When it comes to the priest, its the same as above. Real life priest has actually molested children for decades. The least of their punishment should be getting an ironic cartoon"
I think we are doing police, elected officials, prosecutors, investigative journalists, victims, and whistleblowers in the church a huge disservice when it comes to exposing sexual abuse by priests.
Clownery is very low on the totem pole. This is like when comedians have an inflated view of their role in society.
No problem. I agree with what you wrote in the post,Fair enough. Apologies for misunderstanding you.
Come on, really? This is a rebuttal, to not read into something someone posts online? Dear christ. I’ll just stop here.
Well of course, context is everything. But we’re not talking about just black paint are we. We’re talking about mimicking black skin, and in the process dehumanising an entire race of people. A race that has been oppressed for centuries. What do Islam have backing up their offence? They just don’t like it?
It is a problem when Islam dictates the curriculum of secular societies. We had oppression of Christianity for ages and when we finally see less and less of that we now have certain drawings that can’t be shown or drawn because some ancient book tells it’s inappropriate. And what I learned today even that’s debatable if the ancient books even say such a thing.
I thought we were getting past religious organizations having such a strong influence on our educational system but judging by this thread many don’t mind conservative religious influences on teacher’s decisions which kind of scares me.
That’s their whole point. They invoke emotions & hopefully cause thought. They’re essential, both in purpose & their delivery ability. Always have been. Of course they will always be dumbed down v. any more scholarly or lengthy discussion on the topic, but that alone doesn’t negate their importance. Or shouldn’t be embargoed when they’re being specifically discussed in proper educational settings, secondary school being one in my opinion.I'm sorry but it's frustrating when you start your post with being grounded in reality and then act as if I suggested that cartoons shouldn't exist and then act as I was against educating people on these topics through mediums that give them enough informations which is my issue with cartoons, they don't give you enough informations they aren't an ideal medium for all audiences, that's literally what I said.
Not offending people for the sake of it isn't to be mixed with oppression. Unless of course offending strangers is part of your normal way of life.
They are both nonsense and should be treated equally.
Yes.You're comparing Islam with Trumpism? And decided to call both nonesense?
And you feel as though this isn't a stupid post?
It is a problem when Islam dictates the curriculum of secular societies. We had oppression of Christianity for ages and when we finally see less and less of that because people had the balls to stand up against ite now have certain drawings that can’t be shown or drawn because some ancient book tells it’s inappropriate. And what I learned today even that’s debatable if the ancient books even say such a thing.
I’m glad there were people who were courageous enough to oppose religious fanatism so that I live in a free society today. I thought we were getting past religious organizations having such a strong influence on our educational system but judging by this thread many don’t mind conservative religious influences on teacher’s decisions which kind of scares me.
That’s their whole point. They invoke emotions & hopefully cause thought. They’re essential, both in purpose & their delivery ability. Always have been. Of course they will always be dumbed down v. any more scholarly or lengthy discussion on the topic, but that alone doesn’t negate their importance. Or shouldn’t be embargoed when they’re being specifically discussed in proper educational settings, secondary school being one in my opinion.
You're comparing Islam with Trumpism? And decided to call both nonesense?
And you feel as though this isn't a stupid post?
Yes.
Yes.
Well, you shouldn't give out Mein Kampf because pupils will think it's a fecking punishment: it's a terribly written, meandering, unfocused book with a lot of feverish ideas haphazardly thrown together. Its quality is almost, thought not quite, as offensive as the ideas within.Yes you can. There is no need to infantilize teenagers in education.
Not sure what this bizzare rant is about and how people stating that it's wise to stop offending people of a religion constitutes religious fanatism.
You've managed to talk about "Christian oppression" somewhere in there are well.
Didn't stop Harry Potter.Well, you shouldn't give out Mein Kampf because pupils will think it's a fecking punishment: it's a terribly written, meandering, unfocused book with a lot of feverish ideas haphazardly thrown together. Its quality is almost, thought not quite, as offensive as the ideas within.
Wait, that was two different people?
Wait, that was two different people?
Isn’t this the whole problem? For some reason ridiculous opinions aren’t a problem as long as they are grounded in religion.
I’m pretty sure people in here would find it absolutely insane as a political movement would want to ban cartoons to be shown. But somehow the feelings and opinions of religious people are more important and have higher value to some.
But why should religion have a special place in society? Why can’t they be equally ridiculed as political views are.
All mate. All of them.That's offensive to a lot of people. And people of any religion would find certain statements offensive. The question is why people like you think it's okay to openly antagonize people of specific religions and offend them.
You are willingly cooperating with censorship and thereby oppressing people’s individual freedom. You don’t think Christianity did this in Europe through the ages?
All mate. All of them.
That aside, if you find someone calling a religion nonsense antagonizing, then you are too far gone.
Did you read the post? This has nothing to do with whether religion and politics have to be treated similarly.
Do you think Islam (as a religion) should be regarded as similar as Trumpism?
Extend that logic then and apply it to hate speech. Are we "oppressing people's freedom" when we censor offensive statements?
Back to the big fancy words class you go.You're trying to use an ad-lapidum becuase you have nothing of substance to say. And you've failed at even that.
Telling a follower of any religion that his religion is nonsense is offensive. The fact that you can't assimilate them bespeaks some ignorance.
In some ways they are quite similar in others they are worlds apart. Both you should be able to criticize.
Extend that logic then and apply it to hate speech. Are we "oppressing people's freedom" when we censor offensive statements?
It could be because what people find offensive is very subjective. And sometimes people find truth very offensive.