Gaming PS4 vs Xbox One - The suckiest thread in the history of suckyness

Which one will you buy?

  • Total voters
    538
Interesting post from Reddit regarding the "improved" Xbone esram.

So this article at the top of /r/games sounds pretty rosy. They're claiming the esram on the XBO can actually push 192.0 GB/s. That sounds really great...
Except if we read the actual statement, it is this.
However, with near-final production silicon, Microsoft techs have found that the hardware is capable of reading and writing simultaneously. Apparently, there are spare processing cycle "holes" that can be utilised for additional operations.​
No, they didn't wake up one morning and realize there was an extra data line in their memory module, so lets drill down to what that actually means.
Apparently, there are spare processing cycle "holes" that can be utilised for additional operations.​
In other words, no, it isn't capable of bidirectional data transfer. Their trying to push through a few extra memory operations, but the it's still strictly read or write.
Now, look at the actual numbers. I have to give credit to R_K_M and Boreras for pointing this out. I'm just aggregating, so I'm going to direct quote.
If I am not mistaken, that just means that they lowered the clock from 800 to 750 and are using the bi-directonal bandwith number for marketing when everyone else is using the bandwith number in one direction. - R_K_M
you're right the numbers do match up perfectly for that (750 (GPU clock) * 128 (bus width)*2(read&write during same cycle) = 192.0 GB/s --- if it were 800 MHz you would get 204.8 GB/s) - Boreras​
So we can basically confirm that cboat was correct. The numbers tell the truth. The esram has been downclocked, and Microsoft's PR department is trying to spin it as an increase in total bandwidth based on some cycle tricks that are probably being exaggerated.
Click to expand...
 
WeasteDevil said:
Even if it's true that they have magically found something (a bug?) in their design that has upped the bandwidth from 102GB/s to 192GB/s, it's apples and oranges, as it's 192GB/s to 32MB vs 176GB/s to 8GB.
Click to expand...

The article suggests that newly available 'close-to-final silicon' is the cause of the recalculations. I've no idea what that is though and Google isn't helping (sure doesn't sound like a bug though).

I'm confused by your apples and oranges comment: if the Xbox can process 192GB/s to the Playstation's 176GB/s, then what practical difference does it make if the former uses a 8GB DDR3 + 32MB esRAM setup vs the latter's 8GB DDR5?
 
First it was eSRAM. Then it was cloud. Now it's "magic" in the form of newly-discovered performance.

... Seriously, how do you "accidentally" discover ~100% extra performance? Especially for a piece of hardware that is designed to be an architecture that holds for many years, more reliable than a PC and isn't meant to be tinkered with?
 
Xbox product planning boss Albert Penello feels that hardware analysis is “meaningless” because it’s all about the games.

Speaking with OXM, Penello said there are very few gamers who will buy consoles for the specs alone, so there is no sense in comparing Xbox One and PS4.

“The problem is that Sony decided to go out and publish a bunch of numbers, which are in some ways meaningless,” he said. “Because this isn’t like 1990, when it was 16-bit versus 32-bit.

“As a matter of fact, they actually go out and they talk about how proud they are about their off-the-shelf parts. Our guys’ll say, we touched every single component in the box and everything there is tweaked for optimum performance. For me, I’d rather not even have the conversation, because it’s not going to matter.

“The box is going to be awesome. The games are going to be awesome. I heard this exact same argument last generation and it’s a pointless argument, because people are debating things which they don’t know about. They’re not [head silicon engineer] Nick Baker or [corporate vice president of IEB hardware Todd Holmdahl], and I’m not [lead PS4 architect] Mark Cerny, so why are we having this discussion?”

Penello feels consumers will pick a console for the games it offers, rather than for its capabilities on paper. "Here's what you care about," he said. "You bought a system to play great games and have great experiences. I feel like our games and experiences are going to be every bit as good, if not better, technically - on top of all the magic we're going to add with the instant switching, and the power of the cloud.
Click to expand...

The numbers are meaningless........is exactly what you say when your console has less power. Just full on PR bollocks upto and long after the release of both.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
The article suggests that newly available 'close-to-final silicon' is the cause of the recalculations. I've no idea what that is though and Google isn't helping (sure doesn't sound like a bug though).

I'm confused by your apples and oranges comment: if the Xbox can process 192GB/s to the Playstation's 176GB/s, then what practical difference does it make if the former uses a 8GB DDR3 + 32MB esRAM setup vs the latter's 8GB DDR5?
Click to expand...

Well, it's only 32MB of RAM, you still need to fetch data into that from the DDR3 at around 68GB/s. Once it's in there, ok, but the developers have to juggle. With the PS4 they don't.

It's full balls on 176GB/s to 8GB of RAM for both CPU and GPU.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
The article suggests that newly available 'close-to-final silicon' is the cause of the recalculations. I've no idea what that is though and Google isn't helping (sure doesn't sound like a bug though).

I'm confused by your apples and oranges comment: if the Xbox can process 192GB/s to the Playstation's 176GB/s, then what practical difference does it make if the former uses a 8GB DDR3 + 32MB esRAM setup vs the latter's 8GB DDR5?
Click to expand...

This is why Sony took the path that they did.



Go to 41:20.
 
I've pre-ordered the PS4 for my nephews and nieces, and they're at that age where they love the motion games, so I've ordered the PS4 Eye, I was just wondering, will there be a new PS4 Move Controller to be released aswell? I was initially under the impression that the Move elements of the gameplay were now incorporated into the Dualshock 4, but I've just been doing some reading around, albeit from older articles, which state there will be a new Move controller, but no mention of it was made at E3 and there was a talking up of the motion detection capabilities of the new Dualshock pad... Will there be a new Move controller released? :confused:
 
donmattrick.gif
 
The difference is quite significant whichever way you look at it..... 33% weaker or 50% stronger. I really don't know what the feck Microsoft were thinking, 40% of their transistor budget in the APU has gone into the ESRAM. Sony have said that they could have gone down that route and put in some EDRAM with up to 1TB per second of bandwidth, but decided to not go along that path.
 
I think a big thing for me is Cerny said they anticipate the time to triangle being significantly lower than the PS3 which was 6-12 months, they aim for something like 1-2 months. That's pretty huge in terms of getting quality releases out quickly rather than having developers spend a large chunk of dev time just working out how to get the engines firing, the second half of Year 1 really might bring some huge games.
 
It's exactly that, they have totally abandoned the Kutaragi philosophy of doing things differently to get very high end performance with serious complications, and gone instead for a system that gives mid to high range performance with easy to program for parts. In a way that pisses me off, I'm sick to death of the Java trained/educated programmer generation (ie. shit), but as a business level decision it is probably for the best.
 
I get why your pissed with this Weaste, but there was only one way Sony could have gone with this from a business point of view and they have certainly brought it. Specs wise it should trounce the Xbone.

Sony needs a win more than going exotic.
 
Yes, I understand that, but putting processing/compute onto a GPU is far more complicated than putting it onto the Cell. In fact, GPU processing is far more limited in what it can do. Flexibility has now been lost.
 
So my sister is currently working at Sainsburys, and right now they are offering them 15% staff discount.

I just got her to pre-order me a PS4, at a saving of £52. The Thiago news ruined my day, this just made it!.
 
WeasteDevil said:
It's exactly that, they have totally abandoned the Kutaragi philosophy of doing things differently to get very high end performance with serious complications, and gone instead for a system that gives mid to high range performance with easy to program for parts. In a way that pisses me off, I'm sick to death of the Java trained/educated programmer generation (ie. shit), but as a business level decision it is probably for the best.
Click to expand...


Could you expand on this?
 
Adam-Utd said:
So my sister is currently working at Sainsburys, and right now they are offering them 15% staff discount.

I just got her to pre-order me a PS4, at a saving of £52. The Thiago news ruined my day, this just made it!.
Click to expand...

That's a ripper of a result. Can she pre-order for the Caf in bulk? :lol:
 
walsh said:
That's a ripper of a result. Can she pre-order for the Caf in bulk? :lol:
Click to expand...

Haha I was thinking of ordering a shedload of them, but I think there is something in the T&C's of taking the piss and buying too many can get you taken off. What a deal though I didn't think the 15% would count on bigger items, to my disbelief it did!.
 
WeasteDevil said:
How much do you want me to expand on it? Essentially, they live in a world of abstraction and don't actually know how anything works underneath that.
Click to expand...

Write an essay on it. Seriously though, I'm interested in your thoughts on this. Is this about a lack of understanding of the low level 1s and 0s below the compilers?
 
Thats just an open invitation for him to rant about Cell again, god help us all!
 
Just purchased the Xbox One Battlefield 4 bundle + Ryse. Best part of being an "adult gamer" no questions asked when I drop $600 on an new console!

Side note, heading to a local computer studio next week. My wife is finishing up some character work for the game Ryse. She's a main character boss in the game. Heard nothing but cool stuff about the game and am looking forward to possibly getting some info on it.
 
Apparently the Xbox is selling really well. Chains such as Best Buy have stopped taking per orders after selling their allocations.
 
Kingcon said:
Just purchased the Xbox One Battlefield 4 bundle + Ryse. Best part of being an "adult gamer" no questions asked when I drop $600 on an new console!

Side note, heading to a local computer studio next week. My wife is finishing up some character work for the game Ryse. She's a main character boss in the game. Heard nothing but cool stuff about the game and am looking forward to possibly getting some info on it.
Click to expand...

Ah man? Your married to a computer game character voice? Awesome
 
You must log in or register to reply here.