Pundits refusal to criticise Ole

[el3mel]

I just love how you play with cherry picking stats/achievements to fit your narrative here.

In the same post you manage to say that win % means feck all, while you at the same time elevate Klopp's first full season getting "top 4" with 76 points and shit on Ole's first full season getting "top 4" with 66 points. While in reality Ole got 3rd and Klopp got 4th.
In the same post you manage to say that Ole "bottled" 3 semi finals in his first full season, while you failed to mention that Klopp got knocked out in 4th round of the FA-cup, "bottled" the semi in the League cup and didn't play in Europe in his first full season.

Can you see the lack of balance in your arguments? I doubt it. #agenda

Have they had similar starts at their current clubs in the PL? Yes. Does that mean that Ole will follow the same path of success in the future? No.
Ole might win trophies for/with us and me might not. It's impossible to know. Would I love to see him do it? Yes!
I want to see this season out and evaluate in the summer.

"Shitting on Ole's 3rd" what a hyberpole. There's no shitting on anything it's the ultimate fact Klopp in his first full season season got 10 more points more than Ole's first full season. 3rd from 4th doesn't matter in terms league table (we actually finished 3rd only on goal difference anyway), beside, Klopp was in top 4 the majority of the season while we skipped in top 4 only in last 2 weeks. Klopp got 10 more points, get over it.

The ultimate fact is Klopp reached 2 finals and was on the course to reach the third, while Ole didn't reach a single final yet for us. They are all competition Ole played in, League Cup, Europe League and CL.

Whatever you like these or not isn't anyone's problems. These are facts, not opinions, and not "shitting" on anything. Just because it doesn't fit your agenda of "Ole doing more in his first 100 games". Accept it or not, it won't change anything.

 

[RUCK4444]

"Shitting on Ole's 3rd" what a hyberpole. There's no shitting on anything it's the ultimate fact Klopp in his first full season season got 10 more points more than Ole's first full season. 3rd from 4th doesn't matter in terms league table (we actually finished 3rd only on goal difference anyway), beside, Klopp was in top 4 the majority of the season while we skipped in top 4 only in last 2 weeks.

The ultimate fact is Klopp reached 2 finals and was on the course to reach the third, while Ole didn't reach a single final yet for us.

Whatever you like these or not isn't anyone's problems. These are facts, not opinions, and not "shitting" on anything. Just because it doesn't fit your agenda of "Ole doing more in his first 100 games". Accept it or not, it won't change anything.

I don't mean to jump in your comparison between Ole and Klopp's first seasons but 'the ultimate fact' as you put it, was Ole finished one place ahead of Klopp. Doesn't matter how you chop or change the stats/points, you are judged on where you finish in the league.

And I'm certainly not (and I don't think anybody is) comparing Ole and Klopp.

 

[troylocker]

"Shitting on Ole's 3rd" what a hyberpole. There's no shitting on anything it's the ultimate fact Klopp in his first full season season got 10 more points more than Ole's first full season. 3rd from 4th doesn't matter in terms league table (we actually finished 3rd only on goal difference anyway), beside, Klopp was in top 4 the majority of the season while we skipped in top 4 only in last 2 weeks. Klopp got 10 more points, get over it.

The ultimate fact is Klopp reached 2 finals and was on the course to reach the third, while Ole didn't reach a single final yet for us.

Whatever you like these or not isn't anyone's problems. These are facts, not opinions, and not "shitting" on anything. Just because it doesn't fit your agenda of "Ole doing more in his first 100 games". Accept it or not, it won't change anything.

Read my post again and tell me what my agenda is?

 

[Number32]

For Ole supporters, it is wait until the season is over to judge him. It is a good argument. But then they say that the team progressed under his management. I do not understand the logic of this? Jose's last season he was 2nd. His previous season he won the EL and the League Cup. Ole has not won anything yet. Jose got us into the CL during his two full seasons here. So why is it a progress under Ole when he has not won anything yet?

The progress is due to our squad and the way we play, not only the results. The result is important, but getting instant results with the way we run as a football club is delusional.

We are a young teams who play attacking football and the result is not that bad either. Inconsistencies is something that always happen to young players. Jose and Van Gaal didn't build a team for the future, they build a team that could save their job, then it backfired them when woodward fail to deliver.
Ole did a fine job to handle the situation learning from Jose and Van Gaal's failure he take the risk to recruit and promote young players, so we have a strong team in the future even after he left the club.

 

[anant]

For Ole supporters, it is wait until the season is over to judge him. It is a good argument. But then they say that the team progressed under his management. I do not understand the logic of this? Jose's last season he was 2nd. His previous season he won the EL and the League Cup. Ole has not won anything yet. Jose got us into the CL during his two full seasons here. So why is it a progress under Ole when he has not won anything yet?

That's quite easy to answer actually.

The progress is based on not just the league position, but the sustainability of that. A lot of us had pointed out in in the 17/18 season, that we might have finished 2nd, we were incredibly clinical on both ends of the pitch. In terms of underlying stats, we were 5th/6th best team across pretty much all metrics (and this is what I mean by sustainability before you come back with that). As far as his 1st season is concerned, I've always maintained, it was among our best seasons in post SAF era, as we were in most cases unlucky in front of goal and it was quite easy to pinpoint our problems that season.

Additionally, Mou's 17/18 team had reached it's peak. It was evident that we'd need to invest a ton of money to get competing again, as all his signings had been relatively short terms fixes, and the squad's average age of 28 or something like that - If you aren't competing for title at that age profile, you won't be competing for the title in the near future.

Now coming to Ole, in terms of most underlying stats, we've improved over not just 18/19 but also 17/18 (In fact we're comparable to 16/17 in a lot of metrics as well). Relative to the league as well, we're 3rd-4th in most metrics. Add to that, he's done this with a much younger squad, (for reference, our squad is still younger than "You won't win anything with kids" squad) and a squad that was riddled with injuries.

I agree ultimately he'd be judged on basis of trophies won, but the current squad is still not as strong as Pool, City or Chelsea, so it doesn't really make sense to go trophy or you're out. As long as there is progress season over season, I'm sure we'll get there and manage a sustained run at the top of the pile for years,

 

[Lentwood]

Some very short memories on here and some clear agendas from at least a couple of posters I see all over the forum knocking Ole with constant negative posts.

There’s a feasible possibility of us being top of the league by 1st Jan after 5+ years of basically struggling in mid-table (bar one good season under Jose) and people are still slating the manager at every single turn.

What will it take for Ole to win these people over? I’ve clearly said that even though I’m very pro-Ole, we have to finish top four or its time to move on. What do the Ole out posters want? Seems to me no matter what Ole achieves they won’t give him any credit.

 

[Son]

Some very short memories on here and some clear agendas from at least a couple of posters I see all over the forum knocking Ole with constant negative posts.

There’s a feasible possibility of us being top of the league by 1st Jan after 5+ years of basically struggling in mid-table (bar one good season under Jose) and people are still slating the manager at every single turn.

What will it take for Ole to win these people over? I’ve clearly said that even though I’m very pro-Ole, we have to finish top four or its time to move on. What do the Ole out posters want? Seems to me no matter what Ole achieves they won’t give him any credit.

What has he achieved exactly apart from a 3rd placed finish last season?

I like your a glass half full guy but the fact is the season has been a crazy one and we should be well off the pace by now. It’s only dumb luck & VAR decisions we have as many points as we do.

Not much has impressed me this season apart from the fact we do have some team spirit but we put ourselves in a hole most of the time. The in-game management has been bordering on unforgivable and not befitting of our club. Leipzig was full of poor tactical decisions as was Spurs etc Quite a few this season in fact.

We have a pretty stacked squad so he has been given a shot at the title this season. This is his third season so a title charge is a must considering the time he’s had. 80+ points is expected now. Mourinho did it in his second season imo.

 

[Gasolin]

What has he achieved exactly apart from a 3rd placed finish last season?

I like your a glass half full guy but the fact is the season has been a crazy one and we should be well off the pace by now. It’s only dumb luck & VAR decisions we have as many points as we do.

Not much has impressed me this season apart from the fact we do have some team spirit but we put ourselves in a hole most of the time. The in-game management has been bordering on unforgivable and not befitting of our club. Leipzig was full of poor tactical decisions as was Spurs etc Quite a few this season in fact.

We have a pretty stacked squad so he has been given a shot at the title this season. This is his third season so a title charge is a must considering the time he’s had. 80+ points is expected now. Mourinho did it in his second season imo.

For some reasons, the world didn't know then, because nobody thought of us as title contenders for a while now. Did you see that squad and say it would compete against Liverpool, City, and even to a lesser extend, Chelsea and Spurs squad at the beginning of the season? Based on what? It's interesting because nobody rates the squad. Certainly not our rivals. Not even our own fans apparently. Unless you mean stacked = players' count. But then, what's the point of that metric? I can create a team of U23s, it's full of players, but it doesn't achieve anything in term of squad quality to win or have a shot at the title this season.

 

[youngrell]

What has he achieved exactly apart from a 3rd placed finish last season?

I like your a glass half full guy but the fact is the season has been a crazy one and we should be well off the pace by now. It’s only dumb luck & VAR decisions we have as many points as we do.

Not much has impressed me this season apart from the fact we do have some team spirit but we put ourselves in a hole most of the time. The in-game management has been bordering on unforgivable and not befitting of our club. Leipzig was full of poor tactical decisions as was Spurs etc Quite a few this season in fact.

We have a pretty stacked squad so he has been given a shot at the title this season. This is his third season so a title charge is a must considering the time he’s had. 80+ points is expected now. Mourinho did it in his second season imo.

So the crazy season only applies to the other 19 teams? Just like we only scraped 3rd last season because everyone else was crap, right?

Your post is a direct reflection of @Lentwood final sentence where Ole gets no credit for anything.

And I keep reading about his poor in-game management despite us coming from behind in 5 away ties this season. If that is not in-game management, what is?

 

[Gasolin]

So the crazy season only applies to the other 19 teams? Just like we only scraped 3rd last season because everyone else was crap, right?

Your post is a direct reflection of @Lentwood final sentence where Ole gets no credit for anything.

And I keep reading about his poor in-game management despite us coming from behind in 5 away ties this season. If that is not in-game management, what is?

It was done at HT so surely it wasn't done "in-game"

 

[youngrell]

It was done at HT so surely it wasn't done "in-game"

Oh aye

 

[Son]

So the crazy season only applies to the other 19 teams? Just like we only scraped 3rd last season because everyone else was crap, right?

Your post is a direct reflection of @Lentwood final sentence where Ole gets no credit for anything.

And I keep reading about his poor in-game management despite us coming from behind in 5 away ties this season. If that is not in-game management, what is?

Maybe, I do get your final point and I will give him credit for the comebacks but it’s just frustrating we set our side up so negatively sometimes. Maybe it’s the defence and the lack of trust?

Whatever it is he needs to fix it in January. It’s getting old and fast seeing us come out the blocks so slow.

 

[youngrell]

Maybe, I do get your final point and I will give him credit for the comebacks but it’s just frustrating we set our side up so negatively sometimes. Maybe it’s the defence and the lack of trust?

Whatever it is he needs to fix it in January. It’s getting old and fast seeing us come out the blocks so slow.

Agree the slow starts are very annoying and a bit of a worry.

It’s got to the point I’m wondering if the players are trying to conserve energy, knowing everyone is tired at the moment and we can score late on. But if that’s the case, at least keep it tight early doors!

 

[Listar]

Tim Sherwood just blamed Ole for the first goal for Sheffield United. Threads a myth. Case close

 

[Andy_Cole]

Simon Jordan guaranteeing we won’t win a damn thing this year with Ole.

 

[Tom Cato]

I wish more football fans had a taste for soul and tradition over "hire anyone and buy anyone to win".

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

This should be changed to "Pundits refusal to PRAISE Ole"

 

[KM]

Genuinely this is one of stupidest threads I've seen on here.

 

[Amarsdd]

Look at the mental gymnastics by Simon Jordan (I know I know) to slag off Ole and defend Lampard


oh yeah sure, Ole doesn't get criticized in the media

 

[Giggsy13]

This has to be the most tone deaf and idiotic thread created. Ole doesn’t get criticized and slagged off by the media? fecking joke.

 

[GifLord]

This has to be the most tone deaf and idiotic thread created. Ole doesn’t get criticized and slagged off by the media? fecking joke.

It's like they don't even follow the news.
Every fecking pundit has been slagging off Ole since the win run ended in 2019.
Watch some of the PL shows (Analysis Show, Headline Makers, Weekend Review,..) They give him zero credit and even troll him at times (Relegated Cardiff) it's the players apparently. Yet when Arteta was doing bad it was never his fault cause he had bad players but now since he's turned it around it's Arteta's man management skills
Same can be said about Lampard who was praised for what an amazing job he did at Derby County and when he was not doing so well religiously defended cause he didn't spend a dime in the transfer window yet now barely a pipsqueak from the same people.
The only people who've praised Ole were his former team mates. No english media pundit is actually giving him any credit.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

This should be changed to "Pundits refusal to PRAISE Ole"

Definitely. Especially the "pundits" over at ESPNFC. Part of me wants us to win the league this year just so Craig Burley can be the new "Alan Hansen"...

 

[VP89]

Definitely. Especially the "pundits" over at ESPNFC. Part of me wants us to win the league this year just so Craig Burley can be the new "Alan Hansen"...

ESPN and Richard Keys are worse than some posters here, I wouldn't pay attention to them whatsoever.

 

[lysglimt]

Definitely. Especially the "pundits" over at ESPNFC. Part of me wants us to win the league this year just so Craig Burley can be the new "Alan Hansen"...

Craig Burley can't be compared to Alan Hansen - even Ferguson admitted that he understood what Hansen meant. Burley is a clueless idiot who criticizes OGS for the sake of it

 

[Tom Cato]

I don't mean to jump in your comparison between Ole and Klopp's first seasons but 'the ultimate fact' as you put it, was Ole finished one place ahead of Klopp. Doesn't matter how you chop or change the stats/points, you are judged on where you finish in the league.

And I'm certainly not (and I don't think anybody is) comparing Ole and Klopp.

They're comparing historical trajectories which is a completely fair argument to make. No one are comparing Ole to Klopp of today.

 

[RUCK4444]

They're comparing historical trajectories which is a completely fair argument to make. No one are comparing Ole to Klopp of today.

I jumped in when they were talking about the finishing positions of their first season specifically.

 

[Dante]

This was always a stupid thread.

 

[sunama]

Ole did a fine job to handle the situation learning from Jose and Van Gaal's failure he take the risk to recruit and promote young players, so we have a strong team in the future even after he left the club.

After Ole leaves, many of our current playing staff will be sold and the new manager's player picks will be brought in.
It happened When LVG came in. It happened when Jose came in. And it has happened during Ole's time here.

 

[Handré1990]

This was always a stupid thread.

If anything I’ve not seen many give him any credit at all. Even now. I don’t go actively looking for United news elsewhere than here and on the Scandinavian supporter site though, so it might be a few I’ve missed now.

 

[always_hoping]

Craig Burley can't be compared to Alan Hansen - even Ferguson admitted that he understood what Hansen meant. Burley is a clueless idiot who criticizes OGS for the sake of it

Agreed and Hansen in fairness to him was a decent pundit, Burley in comparison a clueless attention seeking idiot.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

After Ole leaves, many of our current playing staff will be sold and the new manager's player picks will be brought in.
It happened When LVG came in. It happened when Jose came in. And it has happened during Ole's time here.

This.

The next manager may have a better base to work from than Ogs had but as with all managers he’ll identify members of the squad he likes & ones he does not.

OgS isn’t building a squad for his successor, he’s building his squad which will vastly change once he leaves.

 

[One Night Only]

Look at the mental gymnastics by Simon Jordan (I know I know) to slag off Ole and defend Lampard


oh yeah sure, Ole doesn't get criticized in the media

Silly bastard looks like someone ordered Klopp off wish.com

 

[manutddjw]

Looking at Ole's tenure here, there's been very few times that set up wise and tactically, he's got it wrong. He puts alot of trust in his players and sometimes they let him down, but it was down to their performances rather than Ole making tactical errors. Our biggest problem has been teams with the low block. But if you look at it, he knows this going in, and puts out an attacking lineup with the options he has. He hopes Bruno, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, Pogba etc. will have enough quality to get us a goal and then force them to change their approach.

Of course Neville and Keane are going to back him to the hilt, but there really hasn't been much to criticize Ole for in terms of his setup and approach to games. I think if you look at matchday threads, before a ball is kicked, most people agree with his plan and setup. The only real problem fans have prior to a game is player selection such as when James starts or when Van de Beek doesn't. But the overall formation and idea Ole goes in with is rarely criticized. I think you see that most of the time after defeat, it's the players who are criticized rather than Ole's tactics.

 

[Bondi77]

ESPN and Richard Keys are worse than some posters here, I wouldn't pay attention to them whatsoever.

Praise does not really provoke a reaction but criticism does and that is why all these Muppets in the media are at it

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Look at the mental gymnastics by Simon Jordan (I know I know) to slag off Ole and defend Lampard


oh yeah sure, Ole doesn't get criticized in the media

Probably the most inconsistent and strangest thing I have ever heard. In his logic, Lampard spent 250m in the summer in order to challenge for 6th, 5th or 4th spot in what he called ''average PL'' so he thinks Lampard is doing a better job right now than Ole who is actually chasing Liverpool joining top of the league in this ''average PL''.

Surely the expectation of spending 250m in the summer was to do better than last season which means chasing Liverpool & City joining top of the league in this ''average PL'' should be the expectation not trying to compete with Arsenal, Everton, Leicester & Southampton.