Pundits refusal to criticise Ole

[Enigma_87]

No it isn't



I get it you dont fancy him, but people are rewriting history here.


Ole pretty much acing every metric compared to previously managers we hired since fergie, except trophies. And even then not great back catalogue to be honest.



People need to go outside take a deep breath, and chill out.


Reality being painted at the moment miles away from how previous managers went.

Only one who got shafted wrongly was LVG but the football was prob the worse I've witnessed, not many where bothered he went.

Acing?
300m spent and no trophy to show for, what is he acing?
Success at top clubs has always been measured by trophies. Not winning away in Paris or good run here and there.

I can guarantee you if it was Moyes with the same results 99% of the fans will be out with the pitchforks.

 

[FujiVice]

I can guarantee you if it was Moyes with the same results 99% of the fans will be out with the pitchforks.

Different times, though. If Solksjaer got the job in 2013 had the meltdown from March onwards that he had in 2019, he'd have been sacked quicker than Moyes was. We're in a different ball game now.

 

[Enigma_87]

Different times, though. If Solksjaer got the job in 2013 had the meltdown from March onwards that he had in 2019, he'd have been sacked quicker than Moyes was. We're in a different ball game now.

Which is one of the reasons we’re in this mess. Each manager since Moyes got hundreds of millions and now we’re considering top 4 finish a success because we’re managed because of mediocre one. The standards are truly gone.

 

[wolvored]

No it isn't



I get it you dont fancy him, but people are rewriting history here.


Ole pretty much acing every metric compared to previously managers we hired since fergie, except trophies. And even then not great back catalogue to be honest.



People need to go outside take a deep breath, and chill out.


Reality being painted at the moment miles away from how previous managers went.

Only one who got shafted wrongly was LVG but the football was prob the worse I've witnessed, not many where bothered he went.

So hes acing everything apart from actually winning trophies which is what he should be acing

 

[devilish]

This. Also all the so called pundits in media are propagandists more thsn football pundits. They will wax lyrical about their buddies, their pay masters or who ever gives them more money.

I got mates who are very close to Sir Alex's people. Some of them stuck gold when they got very close to three then academy kids who turned up being Beckham and the Nevilles. That opened the gates of opportunity for them. They were invited to Gaz and Becks weddings and viceversa, they went to Carrington as VIPs and players/coaches/celebrities would pop in at their pub whenever they came to Malta. The place would be packed on those occasions as United are quite big here. Meanwhile fans would stop them for drinks in a desperate bid to know whom we're buying this summer etc. Every man and his dog knew that they had inside information and believe me these nobodies were treated like fecking celebrities.

Things started becoming sour with Moyes and by the time Mou consolidated his power at United most if not all their links were gone. With Ole at the wheel the vibe is slowing changing again. Our former players are slowly but surely gaining power at the club which explains why, saying anything against Ole around these people would risk ending up in a fight with them (literally)

Now do you really think that Sky or BT would pay thousands of pounds to a former player and their often lazy view of football? Of course not. I mean seriously, the likes of Phil Neville barely understood football when he was on the pitch which is why he kept hacking players in the penalty box, let alone being able to sit on a chair and analyse football as some successful manager would do. These people get hired because they were former United players who are supposed to have fresh inside knowledge of what is going on. Some half decent retired manager would surely analyse the game better then feckin Phil Neville, Darren Hargreaves or Darren Fletcher. The difference is that if a retired manager said that Pogba is probably disrupting the dressing room then no one would give a feck about that. However if Phil Neville says it then people will start wondering if Ole or some of his coaching staff had told him something which gives the guy credibility ie credibility that is worth paying for.

Which is why you can't expect former players to turn against their beloved Ole. It also explains Evra's rant about people who are scared of criticising the club too much because they might not get this or that job.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

You do realize that pundits are hired mainly for their screen presence and their ability to generate interest within a certain targeted demographic?

You don't actually think Sky hire pundits based on their intelligence and/or ability to deconstruct what happens on the pitch?

And...if you think they're hired for their honesty...oh dear, you shouldn't be allowed out of your house, you're so naive you constitute a threat to both yourself and others.

It's theatrics, it's show business - come on. If someone like Souness spouts absolute bollocks - and millions of viewers get pissed off because they disagree with his analysis, that's brilliant for the people paying his salary. The fact that he spouts bollocks, objectively, is irrelevant. Punditry isn't about "football knowledge". It's about viewers, clicks, catering to the demographic - in a word: money.

 

[Flexdegea]

Acing?
300m spent and no trophy to show for, what is he acing?
Success at top clubs has always been measured by trophies. Not winning away in Paris or good run here and there.

I can guarantee you if it was Moyes with the same results 99% of the fans will be out with the pitchforks.

Not they would not, do we really have to go over all this again about Moyes?


Ole win record as good as any manager we had since fergie. We aren't in this bad bad spot you are portraying, way too much over emotion and dramatics from posters, the way you are talking you would actually think it was end days of Moyes when he took a league winning team to 7th, completely lost the players completely, and was breaking crossing records against Fulham.

Think reality check is needed a bit.



Think I covered where I'm at with the manager yesterday.

If trophies is your barometer at the moment then we be sacking them every season as be zero big picture getting looked at.

As I say we come back to it end of season.

 

[croadyman]

Not they would not, do we really have to go over all this again about Moyes?


Ole win record as good as any manager we had since fergie. We aren't in this bad bad spot you are portraying, way too much over emotion and dramatics from posters, the way you are talking you would actually think it was end days of Moyes when he took a league winning team to 7th, completely lost the players completely, and was breaking crossing records against Fulham.

Think reality check is needed a bit.



Think I covered where I'm at with the manager yesterday.

If trophies is your barometer at the moment then we be sacking them every season as be zero big picture getting looked at.

As I say we come back to it end of season.

Unfortunately for Ole I can't help thinking that win % since January is very much down to Bruno with a little bit of Marcus & Edinson thrown in as well

 

[fergosaurus]

The sentiment is huge in our fan base. Some will never say Ole out because they respect him to much.

I agree with this. If he wasn't a United legend I doubt he'd have anywhere near the same support. Which is another reason to stay the feck away from Ryan Giggs. God knows how much leniency he'd get from fans.

 

[Jibbs]

I got mates who are very close to Sir Alex's people. Some of them stuck gold when they got very close to three then academy kids who turned up being Beckham and the Nevilles. That opened the gates of opportunity for them. They were invited to Gaz and Becks weddings and viceversa, they went to Carrington as VIPs and players/coaches/celebrities would pop in at their pub whenever they came to Malta. The place would be packed on those occasions as United are quite big here. Meanwhile fans would stop them for drinks in a desperate bid to know whom we're buying this summer etc. Every man and his dog knew that they had inside information and believe me these nobodies were treated like fecking celebrities.

Things started becoming sour with Moyes and by the time Mou consolidated his power at United most if not all their links were gone. With Ole at the wheel the vibe is slowing changing again. Our former players are slowly but surely gaining power at the club which explains why, saying anything against Ole around these people would risk ending up in a fight with them (literally)

Now do you really think that Sky or BT would pay thousands of pounds to a former player and their often lazy view of football? Of course not. I mean seriously, the likes of Phil Neville barely understood football when he was on the pitch which is why he kept hacking players in the penalty box, let alone being able to sit on a chair and analyse football as some successful manager would do. These people get hired because they were former United players who are supposed to have fresh inside knowledge of what is going on. Some half decent retired manager would surely analyse the game better then feckin Phil Neville, Darren Hargreaves or Darren Fletcher. The difference is that if a retired manager said that Pogba is probably disrupting the dressing room then no one would give a feck about that. However if Phil Neville says it then people will start wondering if Ole or some of his coaching staff had told him something which gives the guy credibility ie credibility that is worth paying for.

Which is why you can't expect former players to turn against their beloved Ole. It also explains Evra's rant about people who are scared of criticising the club too much because they might not get this or that job.

Great insightful comment. This Sums up everything.

 

[LARulz]

Michah Richards the one asking the tough questions and making Keane and Neville give a straight answer. Good

 

[croadyman]

Michah Richards the one asking the tough questions and making Keane and Neville give a straight answer. Good

Well Neville did at least say that Ole has gotta start showing this team can dominate games, eh up Micah has now just got into our backroom staff and said that Pogba wants to leave because he isn't feeling love from the club

 

[Foxbatt]

I thought Keeno and Gary was as blunt as they could in saying that Ole needs to win a trophy this year and get into the CL spot or else he is in trouble. `they also said that so far they are not playing well at all and he needs to change it and change it fast. `I think they have resigned to the fact that he will not last past the end of the season.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I thought Keeno and Gary was as blunt as they could in saying that Ole needs to win a trophy this year and get into the CL spot or else he is in trouble. `they also said that so far they are not playing well at all and he needs to change it and change it fast. `I think they have resigned to the fact that he will not last past the end of the season.

This needs to posted in every Ole thread.

Even Neville was saying we're a team of moments and that Ole needs dominate games in the next 6 months, which is obviously very kind because we've shown nothing in the past two years to suggest that is going to happen.

There's only so much bias and benefit of the doubt you can get. Has Ole done the best of his ability? Arguably yes but what a lot of us are saying is that it's not the fecking point. We haven't achieved near the ability of the squad or what we should be aiming for.

It's not about judging in a vacuum, it's about maintaining standards or striving for better. Ole has reached his limit and not the limit of the squad despite it's limitations.

 

[hobbers]

Neville talks a lot of sense, finally. Can see he's spat up the koolaid.

 

[Teja]

Even Neville was saying we're a team of moments and that Ole needs dominate games in the next 6 months, which is obviously very kind because we've shown nothing in the past two years to suggest that is going to happen.

What do you mean exactly by dominate? Possession? Eye test? Not going behind in games? Points totals? League form? xG?

Pick a metric and stick to it. For me, it's all about putting points on the board and we've done better than any other PL side on that account since Bruno came in.

Ole has a better record than Caf darling Klopp in his first 100 games in charge.

 

[criticalanalysis]

What do you mean exactly by dominate? Possession? Eye test? Not going behind in games? Points totals? League form? xG?

Pick a metric and stick to it. For me, it's all about putting points on the board and we've done better than any other PL side on that account since Bruno came in.

Ole has a better record than Caf darling Klopp in his first 100 games in charge.

Neville was the one that said that but I doubt that are many that would disagree. However, I'll humour you with a few:

Possession in opposition half, ball recoveries in opposition half, touches in opposition half/penalty box, passing accuracy, chances/shots at goal/on target, passes played by the keeper that advanced to the opposition half without a long ball, amount of sustained possession/pressure on opposition from the get-go, amount of presses/ball recoveries, amount of chances/conceded to our goal, etc etc.

I'd surprised if you can find stats on those but be my guest. They are all basically all the metrics/things the top teams like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Dortmund have done or are doing that even your Leipzeg, Southamptons, Brightons, Sheffield Uniteds are more than capable too.

As for your last point, what a ridiculous comparison.

https://talksport.com/football/5514...iverpool-everton-alisson-van-dijk-mane-salah/

"Jurgen Klopp’s first Liverpool line-up had Mignolet, Moreno and Sakho....On the bench that day were Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall"

If Ole had won a couple of leagues in the German league and got to a CL final then I'd give you that. Otherwise, his first 100 means absolutely nothing other than he had got a talented squad of players playing to a wildly inconsistent average or there abouts level.

 

[Mindhunter]

This needs to posted in every Ole thread.

Even Neville was saying we're a team of moments and that Ole needs dominate games in the next 6 months, which is obviously very kind because we've shown nothing in the past two years to suggest that is going to happen.

There's only so much bias and benefit of the doubt you can get. Has Ole done the best of his ability? Arguably yes but what a lot of us are saying is that it's not the fecking point. We haven't achieved near the ability of the squad or what we should be aiming for.

It's not about judging in a vacuum, it's about maintaining standards or striving for better. Ole has reached his limit and not the limit of the squad despite it's limitations.

Thanks for sharing the video. It's heartening to see that Neville is saying the same things that we are on this forum.

 

[Teja]

I'd surprised if you can find stats on those but be my guest.

You're the one coming up with garbage metrics mate, you find the source and I'll humor you. I can say number of touches taken by our RCM in the attacking 3rd is the highest in the league and it matters feck all. You could've made it easy on yourself and said goals scored / goal difference / xG - all of which we're pretty far behind the top sides but you had to go pick some nonsensical ones. And, anyway, none of these matter if you put points on the board. We outplayed PSG and RBL, for what? We're still out of the CL.

As for your last point, what a ridiculous comparison.
"Jurgen Klopp’s first Liverpool line-up had Mignolet, Moreno and Sakho....On the bench that day were Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall"

Great! So lets look at 2020, Klopp had a CL winning team, with no injuries vs Ole with a struggling united and we're still outperforming them. Clearly Klopp's the one that is shit if he can't even beat Ole's record with a CL winning team full of superstars. Pool might as well sack him right now.

 

[Listar]

This needs to posted in every Ole thread.

Even Neville was saying we're a team of moments and that Ole needs dominate games in the next 6 months, which is obviously very kind because we've shown nothing in the past two years to suggest that is going to happen.

There's only so much bias and benefit of the doubt you can get. Has Ole done the best of his ability? Arguably yes but what a lot of us are saying is that it's not the fecking point. We haven't achieved near the ability of the squad or what we should be aiming for.

It's not about judging in a vacuum, it's about maintaining standards or striving for better. Ole has reached his limit and not the limit of the squad despite it's limitations.

He also say we don’t have the players (remember our transfer window?). You are judging without context.

 

[Desert Eagle]

You're the one coming up with garbage metrics mate, you find the source and I'll humor you. I can say number of touches taken by our RCM in the attacking 3rd is the highest in the league and it matters feck all. You could've made it easy on yourself and said goals scored / goal difference / xG - all of which we're pretty far behind the top sides but you had to go pick some nonsensical ones. And, anyway, none of these matter if you put points on the board. We outplayed PSG and RBL, for what? We're still out of the CL.



Great! So lets look at 2020, Klopp had a CL winning team, with no injuries vs Ole with a struggling united and we're still outperforming them. Clearly Klopp's the one that is shit if he can't even beat Ole's record with a CL winning team full of superstars. Pool might as well sack him right now.

First off klopp had a feck ton of injuries. Secondly half of the year they had basically already won the league so who gives a feck if they dropped some points. Thirdly stop comparing someone like klopp to ole. It will only make ole look worse than he already does.

 

[el3mel]

What do you mean exactly by dominate? Possession? Eye test? Not going behind in games? Points totals? League form? xG?

Pick a metric and stick to it. For me, it's all about putting points on the board and we've done better than any other PL side on that account since Bruno came in.

Ole has a better record than Caf darling Klopp in his first 100 games in charge.

"Caf darling"

Klopp in his first 2 years reached 2 finals, Europe League and League Cup and got top 4 with 76 points. By the end of his second full season he also reached a Champions League final and got another top 4 with 75 points.

We are now 2 years with Ole in charge and he had bottled 3 semi finals and a CL group, and finished top 4 with 66 points.

Win percentage is a terrible way of comparing managers and doesn't show the full picture.

Not to mention Ole actually inherited a much better a squad than the joke of a team that Klopp inherited. Klopp inherited a team whose main striker was Benteke and the always injured Sturridge, and finished 6th the previous season, closing it with an embarrassing 6-1 loss to Stoke. The likes of Sterling and Suarez who were a main reason for the league challenge 2 years earlier were sold and they replaced them with ridiculously terrible business like Lambert. Ole inherited a team who finished 2nd the previous season with 8 points and was just in an off form thanks to Mourinho having a meltdown.

 

[ash_86]

So suddenly Neville is everyone's best friend in the Cafe?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It’s never his fault. He’s not been backed. The board aren’t good enough. The players aren’t good enough. There’s truth in some of those statements but the Glazers & Woodward aren’t selecting the team. They aren’t making daft subs. They aren’t making Sunday league level tactical mistakes like keeping Fred on or telling Wan-Bissaka to stay narrow when we’re playing a back 5 or the shockingly bad implementation of zonal marking on corners. That’s all on Ole

I’m sorry but it’s nonsense. If this was Jose or Van Gaal the ex players on sky & BT would be hounding him out, but because he’s their mate he gets a free ride.

I’m sure most managers would love to be “not backed” with 250m spent in less than 2 years. He’s wasted most of that too. He’s bought one player who had made a big difference, Bruno, a player he turned torn in summer 2019 while chasing Longstaff & only bought because Pogba & Scott got injured.

The number of excuses made for him is a disgrace.

This has got to be a joke. Pundits regularly fall over themselves to stick the boot into solskjaer.

 

[MayosNoun]

If OGS was English, he would be getting a far easier time of it in the media. Lampard makes silly decisions in all our big games hence never actually scoring in one in the PL this season, yet he gets a free ride by the media.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Neville was the one that said that but I doubt that are many that would disagree. However, I'll humour you with a few:

Possession in opposition half, ball recoveries in opposition half, touches in opposition half/penalty box, passing accuracy, chances/shots at goal/on target, passes played by the keeper that advanced to the opposition half without a long ball, amount of sustained possession/pressure on opposition from the get-go, amount of presses/ball recoveries, amount of chances/conceded to our goal, etc etc.

I'd surprised if you can find stats on those but be my guest. They are all basically all the metrics/things the top teams like Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Dortmund have done or are doing that even your Leipzeg, Southamptons, Brightons, Sheffield Uniteds are more than capable too.

As for your last point, what a ridiculous comparison.

https://talksport.com/football/5514...iverpool-everton-alisson-van-dijk-mane-salah/

"Jurgen Klopp’s first Liverpool line-up had Mignolet, Moreno and Sakho....On the bench that day were Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall"

If Ole had won a couple of leagues in the German league and got to a CL final then I'd give you that. Otherwise, his first 100 means absolutely nothing other than he had got a talented squad of players playing to a wildly inconsistent average or there abouts level.

The fact you have had to explain the idiocy of comparing the team Klopp took over to Ole's should tell you that poster is beyond logical discussion.

 

[Judge Red]

“You’re playing for Man United, your job is to win football matches not to be mates with everybody” might be the most Roy Keane response to players hugging at full time but I doubt he’ll ever speak out against his old mate Ole for the greater good.

 

[Garethw]

Acing?
300m spent and no trophy to show for, what is he acing?
Success at top clubs has always been measured by trophies. Not winning away in Paris or good run here and there.

I can guarantee you if it was Moyes with the same results 99% of the fans will be out with the pitchforks.

Spot on!

 

[JG3001]

I thought Keeno and Gary was as blunt as they could in saying that Ole needs to win a trophy this year and get into the CL spot or else he is in trouble. `they also said that so far they are not playing well at all and he needs to change it and change it fast. `I think they have resigned to the fact that he will not last past the end of the season.

Issue for me is Gary basically just didn’t have the balls to answer the original question, even though he was thinking what many doubters were thinking. Basically pointed out a bunch of observations which have been parroted on these forums for months, but couldn’t say the phrase “No I do not believe he is the man to take this club forward.”

 

[buckooo1978]

Solskjaer is such a curious case

his flaws are obvious and the tactical setup and gameplan at Leipzig was laughable. We've had a number of games where the team performance levels are embarrassing and after 2 years whilst we've seen undoubted progress the continued issues are there for all to see.

at the same time we are 4 points off the top of the league. This is against the context of almost every other team having a better pre-season break than us. The pressure on Ole is nuts. We could win our next 3/4 games and if we lost the 5th people would be calling for his head.

I think it's a bit crazy that people are calling for his head ( maybe unless you think Poch could propel us to be genuine challengers for the league). It does mean the team seem to be playing in a constant state of pressure.

For the record I dont think he's going to deliver any league titles at United but I think if we were bringing in Poch we would have done it in Summer. I just don't understand the frenzy.

 

[Gabagoo]

The United old boys will obviously refuse to criticize one of their own.

Every other pundit will basically say that he's dogshit, because that's the popular opinion anyway and they know that it endear them to the social media fans.

I think Gary Neville's words yesterday pretty much echo what I've been saying: Solksjaer needs to get us winning matches by dominating over long stretches. It's not good enough to play only in moments, relying on individual brilliance.

 

[passing-wind]

I'm glad the comments were publicised by Neville. Keane has always maintained that Ole needs to deliver this season. I think Solskjaer if he lasts longer than this season will eventually end up in a situation where he has a squad that is capable of many great feats but his lack of preparation, consistency and planning is going to hinder the development and progression of the team.

We are relying on Bruno just like we were relying on Pogba when Ole was caretaker. We have never once looked like a cohesive team and the only performance I'd say that is accountable for such a definition was against Cardiff last season which was a good example of a brilliant attacking display.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Why do you want pundits to criticize him? Isnt it a good thing if our coach, players are avoided by the media?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Why do you want pundits to criticize him? Isnt it a good thing if our coach, players are avoided by the media?

It’s hypocritical.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Felt Gary Neville was on the money yesterday.

 

[criticalanalysis]

"Caf darling"

Klopp in his first 2 years reached 2 finals, Europe League and League Cup and got top 4 with 76 points. By the end of his second full season he also reached a Champions League final and got another top 4 with 75 points.

We are now 2 years with Ole in charge and he had bottled 3 semi finals and a CL group, and finished top 4 with 66 points.

Win percentage is a terrible way of comparing managers and doesn't show the full picture.

Not to mention Ole actually inherited a much better a squad than the joke of a team that Klopp inherited. Klopp inherited a team whose main striker was Benteke and the always injured Sturridge, and finished 6th the previous season, closing it with an embarrassing 6-1 loss to Stoke. The likes of Sterling and Suarez who were a main reason for the league challenge 2 years earlier were sold and they replaced them with ridiculously terrible business like Lambert. Ole inherited a team who finished 2nd the previous season with 8 points and was just in an off form thanks to Mourinho having a meltdown.

The fact you have had to explain the idiocy of comparing the team Klopp took over to Ole's should tell you that poster is beyond logical discussion.

Well said.

Gotta respect your effort and patience to even bother replying with proper context.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Felt Gary Neville was on the money yesterday.

Me too, he finally said the obvious.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

No it isn't



I get it you dont fancy him, but people are rewriting history here.


Ole pretty much acing every metric compared to previously managers we hired since fergie, except trophies. And even then not great back catalogue to be honest.



People need to go outside take a deep breath, and chill out.


Reality being painted at the moment miles away from how previous managers went.

Only one who got shafted wrongly was LVG but the football was prob the worse I've witnessed, not many where bothered he went.

Jose had more points than Ole; more trophies and better position. What metric are we talking about?

 

[Bebestation]

Spot on assessment from Schmeichel.

This is why Ole is doing a DOF'S jobs aswell as a managers one.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Unfortunately for Ole I can't help thinking that win % since January is very much down to Bruno with a little bit of Marcus & Edinson thrown in as well

Kane and Son have scored 18 of 23 goals. Some teams have a couple of players that are massively influential on a team.

There's no doubting Bruno is influential and takes the headlines, with a few supporting acts.. Cavani, Rashford, Fred