there just as responsible for this mess as ole is .....clowns refusing to have a go at him....
Pundits refusal to criticise Ole
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
- Start date
This is no longer the case. More and more pundits are criticizing Ole.
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Result maintained "sustainable"?
Not difficult when you total up and combine both the peak periods (caretaker months and Bruno months) with the many long shit periods, you'll get higher average.
The stats showing progressions? That's deceiving. Someone didn't pay close attention to the actual football with their eyes.
True we are more attacking with Ole, stats also showed that and yes the squad is younger which is fun to see.
Is the football sustainable? No. Relaible? No.
Result is "stable" but not the football nor performances. It's always up and down.
I suppose one is a journalistic opinion piece. The other is reporting news from club sources.
I can understand the desire to hope Ole gets it right, because he has gotten so much right already. It’s a very hard and brutal call to make. Sacking a manager not because he’s doing abysmally crap, but sacking him by judging if he’s reached the pinnacle of his capabilities and that peak is just short of the clubs ambitions . It’s very hard to judge whether with funds and time said manager will or won’t rise higher, when on paper he doesn’t appear far off
It’s almost like cashing out on stocks, you buy them at £5 within 2 years there at £50... very hard to know for certain if that’s the all time high for those stocks.
IMO, Ole has taken us as far as he can. The match vs Leipzig showed a tactical naivety and slowness to adapt that will always cost United. But the man deserves more credit than he gets from some fans.
Philip Neville made the statement today that the media witch-hunt to force ole out of a job he loves and has done well in has to stop, and yet we have a OP claiming that media pundits don’t attack Ole enough 
OleOUTers have become like a crazed brainwashed extremist movement deeply entrenched into a nasty hate filled echo chamber that has lost all objectivity and now can’t see the woods for the trees.
every time Ole loses its only a disappointment, yet they hijack and troll this thread screaming it’s an irreparable disaster, and after several deeply offensive insults then proclaim ‘he has to go’; as though they have influence in the decision as deeply influential stakeholders. The chutzpah or narcissim is so deluded and pitiful.
One can only conclude this thread is a safe self help therapy space to help them stop inflicting Depression and mental illness on to themselves.
opinions and debates are good but we should remember that we fans play very little role in the clubs hiring and firing decisions. And so you lash out by insulting another fan because they disagree with you and yet you are powerless and ain’t changing a thing as Woody aint gonna look at our poll and make his call!
my views on Ole have evolved a little since loss to liepzig, still support Ole but some things he does need to quickly evolve. More later!
OleOUTers have become like a crazed brainwashed extremist movement deeply entrenched into a nasty hate filled echo chamber that has lost all objectivity and now can’t see the woods for the trees.
every time Ole loses its only a disappointment, yet they hijack and troll this thread screaming it’s an irreparable disaster, and after several deeply offensive insults then proclaim ‘he has to go’; as though they have influence in the decision as deeply influential stakeholders. The chutzpah or narcissim is so deluded and pitiful.
One can only conclude this thread is a safe self help therapy space to help them stop inflicting Depression and mental illness on to themselves.
opinions and debates are good but we should remember that we fans play very little role in the clubs hiring and firing decisions. And so you lash out by insulting another fan because they disagree with you and yet you are powerless and ain’t changing a thing as Woody aint gonna look at our poll and make his call!
my views on Ole have evolved a little since loss to liepzig, still support Ole but some things he does need to quickly evolve. More later!
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What else is there to be critical of Ole? Players too often get a free ride. 3 months after the first full year of Ole making it clear that he's going with Martial, Rashford, and Greenwood as his main forwards. I guess you can throw in Bruno.
Three months in, only Bruno has done his part with Cavani doing it in a couple of games. Overall, the three forwards previously mentioned have been average at best, with at least Rashford scoring goals to mask his (extremely) inconsistent performances when said goals don't come.
Ole isn't a good enough manager to win the league with United, but at the very least he showed that he can make the squad compete for a CL place. Pundits know good talent, but also good consistent talent that you can rely on most weeks.
Martial is probably in his worst form as a United player. Rashford's been his typical self but with added goals. Greenwood has scored, but obviously his goal ratio from earlier this year was unsustainable. Cavani has just come into the squad and then promptly got injured. Mata has been okay if not a little better than projected. And Bruno has thrived as the main creator of the team and more power to him.
The central midfield pairings have typically done well in a functional way. The backline and goalkeeping we know are solid to good, but nobody is a standout player head and shoulders among the top at their position for one reason or another. AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders, but his off the ball positioning and weakness with high balls/diagonal crosses towards his flank is a clear weakness that gets exposed.
Three months in, only Bruno has done his part with Cavani doing it in a couple of games. Overall, the three forwards previously mentioned have been average at best, with at least Rashford scoring goals to mask his (extremely) inconsistent performances when said goals don't come.
Ole isn't a good enough manager to win the league with United, but at the very least he showed that he can make the squad compete for a CL place. Pundits know good talent, but also good consistent talent that you can rely on most weeks.
Martial is probably in his worst form as a United player. Rashford's been his typical self but with added goals. Greenwood has scored, but obviously his goal ratio from earlier this year was unsustainable. Cavani has just come into the squad and then promptly got injured. Mata has been okay if not a little better than projected. And Bruno has thrived as the main creator of the team and more power to him.
The central midfield pairings have typically done well in a functional way. The backline and goalkeeping we know are solid to good, but nobody is a standout player head and shoulders among the top at their position for one reason or another. AWB is one of the best 1v1 defenders, but his off the ball positioning and weakness with high balls/diagonal crosses towards his flank is a clear weakness that gets exposed.
Ole’s football is exciting??? Wow!!!! Enjoy the exciting football mate, long may it continue (for you).
His pals will always defend /absolve him.
I start to think Ole might have been sharing his salary to these clown of 92, except for Beckham ( because he is already loaded with money) which is why Beckham never say a word about backing him. These people literally two footed any of our previous manager but never even once they criticize Ole.
Wouldn't expect things to quick evolve because he just doesn't have it in him to turn around this situation. He just keeps on making strange tactical decisions and the defence look absolutely rudderless right nowPhilip Neville made the statement today that the media witch-hunt to force ole out of a job he loves and has done well in has to stop, and yet we have a OP claiming that media pundits don’t attack Ole enough
OleOUTers have become like a crazed brainwashed extremist movement deeply entrenched into a nasty hate filled echo chamber that has lost all objectivity and now can’t see the woods for the trees.
every time Ole loses its only a disappointment, yet they hijack and troll this thread screaming it’s an irreparable disaster, and after several deeply offensive insults then proclaim ‘he has to go’; as though they have influence in the decision as deeply influential stakeholders. The chutzpah or narcissim is so deluded and pitiful.
One can only conclude this thread is a safe self help therapy space to help them stop inflicting Depression and mental illness on top of them.
opinions and debates are good but we should remember that we fans play very little role in the clubs hiring and firing decisions. And so you leash out by insulting another fan because they disagree with you and that you are powerless and ain’t changing notbing. Woody aint gonna look at our poll and make his call!
my views on Ole have evolved a little since loss to liepzig, still support Ole but some things he does need to quickly evolve. More later!’
The only thing I would point out is that Schmeichel was one of Ole's ex-teammates and most of the treble winning players seem to be very protective of each other. In some ways, that crop of players turned a brotherhood.
They became the first team to win the treble (in the top 5 leagues) and were named sports team of the millennium in 1999. When you make history together, that sometimes develops a special bond among the group. It's the same reason you see the Neville brothers defend Ole.
As much as I want to believe that there has been progress, I'm not sure there has been that much of it. Where Ole has done a good job is developing Greenwood and focusing on youth more than his predecessor. But how much better are we than we were in 2019? Is there a discernable style of play? In my opinion, the answer is no to both of those questions.
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These guys are his mates. Of course they are biased towards him.
They've also been players and some of them managers, so they know damn well that single games are not won and lost by their manager. alone Of course team selection, tactics and preparations going into the game is important, but we crashing out was a collective failure rather than a individual one. On here, Ole is only safe until the next time we play poorly or drop points, then his critics are out again in full force. He got the team selection and tactics wrong, i've, that seems to be almost universally agreed upon by both pundits and fans, so i dont know what you expect really. Do you want them to call him a cnut and a PE teacher?
Maybe i've forgotten it, but i cant remember it being this way with any of our former managers
And i honestly dont know how you got the idea that hes (or any other United manager) somehow gotten a free ride in the media. Every goddamn time we lose a game of football it makes headlines
That's because you joined the caf last month and Jose was sacked 2 years, so you probably wouldn't have done.
There is no contempt at all. We love Ole.
We just happen to love the club too he represents. He’s done a lot of good work in the background don’t get me wrong... but it’s pretty blatant now he’s not upto the job at the highest level which is what our fans deserve and what we need as a club.
The two years have been enjoyable at times but completely forgettable apart from that night in Paris. Again we got slapped by Barcelona in the next round embarrassingly.
Paris will always be his peak but he’s
never been good enough for his job sadly proved by the lack of consistency, football identity and ingame tactics.
A lot of our major problems are completely down to him and the coaching staff and that can not and will not ever be accepted.
This thread is basically a tantrum because certain pundits don't support their way of thinking which they want so it can aid their cause in getting him sacked.Philip Neville made the statement today that the media witch-hunt to force ole out of a job he loves and has done well in has to stop, and yet we have a OP claiming that media pundits don’t attack Ole enough
OleOUTers have become like a crazed brainwashed extremist movement deeply entrenched into a nasty hate filled echo chamber that has lost all objectivity and now can’t see the woods for the trees.
every time Ole loses its only a disappointment, yet they hijack and troll this thread screaming it’s an irreparable disaster, and after several deeply offensive insults then proclaim ‘he has to go’; as though they have influence in the decision as deeply influential stakeholders. The chutzpah or narcissim is so deluded and pitiful.
One can only conclude this thread is a safe self help therapy space to help them stop inflicting Depression and mental illness on to themselves.
opinions and debates are good but we should remember that we fans play very little role in the clubs hiring and firing decisions. And so you lash out by insulting another fan because they disagree with you and yet you are powerless and ain’t changing a thing as Woody aint gonna look at our poll and make his call!
my views on Ole have evolved a little since loss to liepzig, still support Ole but some things he does need to quickly evolve. More later!
It's understable but maybe things would have been different if he had not scored a tap in in 99
Ole is a bum, he's always been a side man and a yes man, I don't need his pals in the media to tell me how much of a bum he is, I can see it almost every weekend with his awful game management.
People who are still Ole in after the shambles of Europe should get their heads checked. Deluded.
I am not surprised. The Ole inners are quite extreme. I tried to explain to someone yesterday about how small Leipzig and the Istanbul club are, how Leipzig's net spend in the past 3 years was probably less then what we spent on Maguire alone and how Istanbul are having a mare this season having won just 1 league title in their entire history. All I got is someone insisting that this is a group of death and that Leipzig were able to draw against Bayern Munich. They make it sound as if we were paired in a group against Bayern Munich and Barcelona.
Meanwhile Phil Neville believes there's some sort of witch hunt against Ole while Howson thinks that Pogba ruined poor little Ole's tactics which lead to us going 2-0 down against a team whose current top scorer happens to be some Manchester City loanee left winger. We have our own 'always the victim' now
That was always my concern about having a club legend as manager. A big chunk of supporters would rather see the club sink with him rather then thrive under someone else.
Meanwhile Phil Neville believes there's some sort of witch hunt against Ole while Howson thinks that Pogba ruined poor little Ole's tactics which lead to us going 2-0 down against a team whose current top scorer happens to be some Manchester City loanee left winger. We have our own 'always the victim' now
That was always my concern about having a club legend as manager. A big chunk of supporters would rather see the club sink with him rather then thrive under someone else.
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From a little distance point of view the result seems actually way better than the game was, in fact. 3:2. Might have been a 5:0 and knowbody could have complained. Forsberg is a must score for a 3:0 and actually Konate's header was just really (un)lucky to not go in.
It was the 2nd time that I saw a clear tactical mistake by Ole. He just focused to keep the centre tight and left way too much space on the flanks.
The substitutes didn't do to much either. Then came the ref...
I will never understand how that is a penalty! It's either a foul caused by Greenwood or simply nothing.
The 2nd goal touched Maguire's hand and should have been denied as well. At least we got some excitement for the last quarter of an hour.
It was the 2nd time that I saw a clear tactical mistake by Ole. He just focused to keep the centre tight and left way too much space on the flanks.
The substitutes didn't do to much either. Then came the ref...
I will never understand how that is a penalty! It's either a foul caused by Greenwood or simply nothing.
The 2nd goal touched Maguire's hand and should have been denied as well. At least we got some excitement for the last quarter of an hour.
Destroyed.Some valid points from Schmeichel there: yes it's a young squad that's still improving and consistency is also about maturity. Stability is important. However, if one thinks the coach is not good enough, then extending his time doesn't make sense. Some of our more mature players lack consistency, lack leadership, so the "young team" card only works so far. At the end of last season it was Mason Greenwood who often came to the rescue with a moment of individual brilliance when nothing looked to work. He was 18 at the time.
It's hard to not think a great coach could do a much better job: in developing a playing style, in improving players, in managing games, in taking care of players' fitness. Ole has done well setting us up as underdogs and getting results against sides that are better. He's identified some good players that we've bought for way above market value, and they have performed OK. Bruno has been the huge difference maker, without whom, I doubt Ole would still be in the job. Schmeichel also makes the mistake of comparing Ole to Klopp and those situations, which is what Gary does often, which seems to infer that the only thing Ole needs is time, when in reality he needs to be much much better than he is.
How long can you last with this notion that you're building towards a future. 3 years, 4, 5?
When he eventually leaves I'll be thankful for the players he sold, demoted, weeded out. I'll also be thankful for him trusting some younger players and for buying Bruno. But we need a coach who can coach, and has the character to build a winning mentality. That is clearly not Ole.
Wait you idiots think people can't be on the caf without signing up?
Many people follow this forum regularly for some time before joining. I for one followed it for one whole year during LVG last season before deciding to join.
Step outside the echo chamber of this forum and it's not just the pundits. A group of match going fans i'm part of (50 or so) did a straw poll after Leipzig and about 2/3rds are still Ole in.
I cant see why. He's clearly not the right guy to take us forward so i can only think it's a reluctance to get back on the manager merry go round.
I cant see why. He's clearly not the right guy to take us forward so i can only think it's a reluctance to get back on the manager merry go round.
For me criticising the club would be shitting on achievement or our history. Ole is a expendable manager who will be gone & long forgotten soon. I just wish this nightmare never happened because I fear it’s going to effect his legacy as a player.
The sentiment is huge in our fan base. Some will never say Ole out because they respect him to much.
This. Also all the so called pundits in media are propagandists more thsn football pundits. They will wax lyrical about their buddies, their pay masters or who ever gives them more money.
Because when you are running the company your nephew always gets special treatment.
They are mates and will always defend him even if he relegates us.
They are mates and will always defend him even if he relegates us.
Yeah a couple of my mates are prime examples of that and just won't accept he is the wrong guy
Good luck getting out of the newbies. Maybe check your attitude.
This really is the most over-pedalled tosh on here. You might personally be so far on the Ole-out train that you can't possibly conceive of why anyone might feel differently, but try to understand that some people have legitimate reasons to support him outside of pure romanticism. Its quite insulting.
Nightmare?
Please tell me you are trolling? Been worse nightmare periods at the club in last 8 years alone.
I thought they discussed quite well on the Second Captains podcast yesterday. The TV companies in recent years seem to have encouraged pundits to show their biases, whereas before they had to try to hide them as much as possible, you see the clips and tweets of Neville and Carragher really supporting United and Liverpool respectively and mocking the other, Evra's whole shtick on TV is hamming up his love for United and BT sometimes show the clips of the pundits going mad in studio when a goal has been scored. I guess the idea of that is it gets more social media interaction, makes the pundits seem more relatable and realistically when we play Leipzig or most of the Premier League teams the majority of the viewers will be United supporters, so why wouldn't you put a couple of ex-United players on to just talk about United?
The issue comes in that if those people have biases towards certain clubs, they also have biases towards certain people with whom they pre-existing relationships. Watching the analysis after the game on Tuesday I think it was clear that Ferdinand and Scholes were being critical of Solskjaer but couldn't bring themselves to directly aim any blame at Solskjaer by name. That's understandable, I can't imagine slagging a friend off on TV and I think they were still able to analyse the game and identify the failings but not take that final step of saying that Solskjaer has failings. I don't think that's just a United thing though, I'd be curious to see how Carragher would deal with criticising Gerrard if he ever became Liverpool manager (he's not had much to criticise Klopp about and obviously didn't work with him).
I think overall though that Solskjaer gets more than enough criticism. I personally don't think he's the man for the job long-term (i.e. at the latest by the start of next season) but I also think in certain places he's dismissed too much. In part I think that's just because of optics (he doesn't come across as that impressive whereas someone like Arteta looks the part and talks a good game but there's a growing possibility that it's purely bullshit) which is meaningless and sort of unnecessary, I think where his coaching, his tactics, his recruitment etc. that's valid and there's plenty of that so I'm not sure how much people want.
The issue comes in that if those people have biases towards certain clubs, they also have biases towards certain people with whom they pre-existing relationships. Watching the analysis after the game on Tuesday I think it was clear that Ferdinand and Scholes were being critical of Solskjaer but couldn't bring themselves to directly aim any blame at Solskjaer by name. That's understandable, I can't imagine slagging a friend off on TV and I think they were still able to analyse the game and identify the failings but not take that final step of saying that Solskjaer has failings. I don't think that's just a United thing though, I'd be curious to see how Carragher would deal with criticising Gerrard if he ever became Liverpool manager (he's not had much to criticise Klopp about and obviously didn't work with him).
I think overall though that Solskjaer gets more than enough criticism. I personally don't think he's the man for the job long-term (i.e. at the latest by the start of next season) but I also think in certain places he's dismissed too much. In part I think that's just because of optics (he doesn't come across as that impressive whereas someone like Arteta looks the part and talks a good game but there's a growing possibility that it's purely bullshit) which is meaningless and sort of unnecessary, I think where his coaching, his tactics, his recruitment etc. that's valid and there's plenty of that so I'm not sure how much people want.
The whole 8 years has been a nightmare. If you’d told me 10 years ago this would be the state of the club theres no way I would believe you.Nightmare?
Please tell me you are trolling? Been worse nightmare periods at the club in last 8 years alone.
Like when? When we were winning at least some silverware ?Nightmare?
Please tell me you are trolling? Been worse nightmare periods at the club in last 8 years alone.
This is Moyes given more time and much more resources.
There's a difference between the sportswriter class - Jonathan Wilson, Pointy arrows Cox, Lars Siversten - who are vocal about Ole's limitations and the professional pundit class of ex-pros.The latter will always be somewhat reluctant to criticise fellow former players (including non-Brits so I expect Bilic and Scott Parker to also get some leeway) particularly ones they have played with because you never know when you might be the one in the dugout getting pelters.
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I thought Gary criticized Ole the other day? said we relied on individual qualities but no clear structure or pattern of play. We often win because of moments of brilliance.
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Exactly this.
No it isn't
I get it you dont fancy him, but people are rewriting history here.
Ole pretty much acing every metric compared to previously managers we hired since fergie, except trophies. And even then not great back catalogue to be honest.
People need to go outside take a deep breath, and chill out.
Reality being painted at the moment miles away from how previous managers went.
Only one who got shafted wrongly was LVG but the football was prob the worse I've witnessed, not many where bothered he went.