Raees/Invictus VS Tuppet - NT Peak draft

Who would win based on their peak in the chosen tournament?


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Annahnomoss

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Who would win based solely on their peak in the chosen tournament?


TACTICAL OUTLINE

FORMATION: 5-2-3
STRATEGY: COUNTER-ATTACK (FLUID FRONT 3)


  1. Khan (WC 2002) - Goalkeeper - Strong, vocal presence, long-range distribution key for fast counter-attacks
  2. Bergomi (EU 1988) - Defensive full-back, intuitive, muscular and in his prime, will be marking Puskas
  3. Baresi (WC 1990) - Sweeper, coming out of defence to meet Platini/Puskas if they evade their markers, responsible for initiating counters.
  4. Desailly (WC 1998) - Stopper, will be instrumental against Kocsis (again) and assist with Garrincha
  5. Kaltz (EU 1980) - One of the great wing-backs of the 80's. his rampaging runs, provided the width for Schuster to dominate the Euro's.
  6. Brehme (WC 1990) - Balanced wing-back, who will combine with Tigana to stop Garrincha and provide GOAT width when going forwards
  7. Varela (WC 1950) - 'El Negro' The Great Destroyer, will man mark Michel Platini
  8. Tigana (EU 1984) - Box to Box Controller, dictate the tempo, feed the forwards and provide defensive security against Platini/Garrincha.
  9. Suarez (CA 2011) - Fluid 9, at his most aggressive, quick.. nightmare to defend against and will bring best out of Eusebio and Maradona
  10. Maradona (WC 1986) - The greatest will feature mostly at IR, but has freedom to roam and wreak havoc as only he can.
  11. Eusebio (WC 1966) - IL/LW/CF/SS - Indefinable, inexhaustable turbo-charged powerhouse forward who will take men away from Diego.

TEAM PHILOSOPHY (Barrilete Cósmico)


From the beginning of the draft, the plan was to gamble and put ourselves into a potential position to build a side around the greatest international peak footballer of all time.. the 86' version of Diego Armando Maradona.

In my opinion, he reached a zenith in that tournament which remains unparalleled and performed feats which god himself would struggle to reproduce if he laced up his boots.

In order to provide the ideal platform, we've gone with the Bilardo blueprint from 1986, with 7 defensive-minded players, and two roaming forwards who stretch the play and create the space for Diego to be at his rampant best. We've tweaked the formation slightly to add more flair up top, because Diego is in an all-time match and needs more support. Plus it is not a remake draft, and we want to ensure other great players get to star in their own right too.

Nevertheless we want to use the OP to indulgently highlight just how majestic he was in 1986...

JOURNEY TO 1986

Following his shameful dismissal against Brazil in 1982, the Argentine found himself struggling to adapt to life at a top European club, where success was not only demanded but also expected. A bout of hepatitis, a broken ankle following a challenge by Andoni Goikoetxea, and a mass brawl between players and officials of Barcelona and Athletic Bilbao at the end of the 1984 Copa del Rey final marred the Argentine’s turbulent stay in Catalonia.

The escape route was another world record transfer fee of £6.9 million to Napoli of Serie A, at the end of the 1983-84 season; the birthplace of Catenaccio, Gaetano Scirea and home to his nemesis, Claudio Gentile. In the south of Italy, Maradona was adored by the citizens of Naples. Feeling loved and appreciated, El Diego honed his skills and learnt to moderate his temperament. Maradona was growing up.

Wrestling with Passarella..

Following their ignominious exit in Spain, Argentina had a different manager at a World Cup for the first time since 1974, and his name was Carlos Bilardo. In 1983 he had visited Maradona in Spain, who was recovering from his bout of hepatitis; while there, the man Diego calls El Narigon asked him to be his captain. At the time, Maradona was only 22-years-old, but César Luis Menotti’s replacement was intent on building the national side around its talisman.

In the build-up to the tournament, the Argentine squad was in disarray. Qualification had only just been achieved and pre-tournament friendlies had not produced any performances that would serve notice for a successful World Cup. The final disruption saw icon and World Cup-winning captain, Daniel Passarella, walk out of the squad just prior to the opening group game. The defender never really came to terms with the captaincy being taken from him and handed to Maradona.

Tactical Set up...


Bilardo introduced a novel tactical setup for the Seleccion in 1986, a 3-5-2 formation which was revolutionary at the time, but so successful that it would become commonplace by the time the 1990 World Cup rolled around. The counter-attacking system was built from the midfield backwards, with up to seven players given largely defensive roles. In front of Nery Pumpido in goal were three defenders: stoppers Jose Luis Brown and Jose Luis Cuciuffo, and libero Oscar Ruggeri.

Sergio Batista was the most defensive of the midfield five, though Hector Enrique and the more advanced Jorge Burruchaga were expected to contribute to marker defense, as were Ricardo Giusti on the right and Julio Olarticoechea, who would often drop back to join the defensive line, on the left. The whole machine would have failed to spark, of course, without its most crucial component. Maradona was the dynamo who turned movement into electricity, linking the play and igniting the attacks.

Jorge Valdano was generally the most advanced player, cutting in from the right to benefit from Maradona's creativity, while Burruchaga also made forward runs in from the left side. The 4-4-2 formation that the vast majority of teams were using in Mexico was ill-suited to countering Bilardo's tactics, as they found themselves faced with a wall of defenders when in possession, and reinforced in the wrong areas of the pitch when Argentina, who played without the traditional pair of target men up front, had the ball.

WORLD CUP 1986 BEGINS (GROUP STAGES)

Kicked by Korea...


So what was a perceived as an average Argentine team in poor form, and as yet an unknown starting line-up and a young captain, took to the field against South Korea in the opening group game. To begin with, the game looked like a replica of any of Argentina’s 1982 fixtures. The South Koreans opted for the tried and tested tactic of kicking Maradona, either before he got the ball, while he had it, or after he’d released it.

But you sensed that this time it was different; there was no reaction from the 25-year-old. Frustration, yes, but also a steely determination to get up and get on with the game. Maradona’s refusal to react and have more and more of an influence on the game saw the Asian side resort to an early global introduction to their national sport, Taekwondo (it was only a demonstration sport at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul). The challenges were coming in higher and higher up Maradona’s five foot six inch frame.

The game finished 3-1 as Maradona assisted all three goals. His performance was outstanding, albeit against one of the tournament minnows. Brazil, my pre-tournament favourites, had played a day earlier in a rather uninspiring 1-0 win over Spain. Zico was injured going into the tournament, so I was starting with a clean slate, and anyone could claim my ‘undying affection’ for the next four weeks. As things stood, Maradona had put down the early marker. Could anyone match him?

The rematch v reigning world champions Italy...

The second game saw Argentina face Italy in a repeat of the 1982 x-rated fixture, which saw Claudio Gentile nullify Diego Maradona via the medium of violence. This would be the test – this game above all others would signify whether Maradona had matured into the world-class player everyone believed he was.

Gentile was no longer a member of the Italian squad, but Scirea was still there and so was Pietro Vierchowod, an able if slightly less Machiavellian centre-half than Gentile. However, this was now a Maradona who was plying his trade in the lion’s den. Playing every weekend in Serie A for the last two years had certainly influenced the forward.

It was a reformed character that took to the field. Despite going 1-0 down to an Italian penalty after six minutes, Maradona rallied his troops and took it upon himself to drag Argentina back into the game. This time the Azzurri couldn’t get near him as he was too quick and too clever for the Italians, drifting in and out of central positions so that the centre-backs didn’t know whether to go with him or hold their position.

In the 36th minute a clipped pass over the Italian back four from Jorge Valdano had Maradona racing through in the inside left position, and with an instinctive side-foot volley; he guided the ball into the far corner.

Maradona scored some great goals at the 1986 World Cup, but this was a goal of exquisite technique and ability. The change of stride and the height, at which he struck the ball, would have been impossible for most players. Maradona wheeled away and jumped the hoardings at the side of the pitch. Another impressive physical feat based on their size (and his).

The ghost’s of 1982 had been vanquished with a subtle stroke of his left foot. The game finished 1-1 and now the world was starting to take notice of this Argentine team and their inspirational number 10.

Skipping past Bulgaria...

The final group game saw a straightforward 2-0 victory against Bulgaria. Maradona skipped past his marker down the left and hooked in a perfect cross for Burruchaga to head in Argentina's second goal. Argentina finished top of the group and would face Uruguay in the second round. The initial uncertainty and unrest that had dogged their preparation was gone, and the Argentine side had become a tight unit willing to fight for each other.

ROUND OF 16

Argentina 1 - 0 Uruguay

The scoreline gives little indication of the extent to which Argentina, and in particular Maradona, dominated this South American grudge match. Argentina versus Uruguay is the South American equivalent of England versus Scotland. Separated only by the River Plate, the two countries contested the first World Cup final, which Uruguay won 4-2 in Montevideo. Since that game, football has been the tool of choice for both nations with which to demonstrate their superiority over each other.

The game was a typically tense and scrappy affair, the occasion outweighing the performance. The Uruguayans were so intent on containing their opponent's shaggy haired captain that they offered virtually no attacking threat themselves.

As the game wore on, Maradona was becoming more and more influential. It was the poise and balance with which he received the ball and then, in one or two touches, was away from his marker that had fans agasp. They hadn’t seen a player have such sustained influence on games. The Brazil 1982 squad just rotated their brilliance amongst the whole team, but here was one man so far ahead of the other players on the pitch it was almost unfair. Ultimately, Maradona proved uncontainable, wriggling through the midfield at will and consistently laying on passes for his teammates, who should have finished more chances.

THE QUARTER-FINAL VERSUS ENGLAND

Argentina 2 - 1 England

The quarter-final between Argentina and England was the most memorable encounter of the 1986 World Cup, and the defining match of Diego Maradona's career. During God Save The Queen the camera cut to Maradona, who was looking at the England team. Dark eyes casting a disdainful glance up and down the English players, his face betrayed the emotion of a nation that four years earlier had lost the Falklands War. Bobby Robson’s men innocently sung their anthem, while the Artful Dodger in blue decided how best to make the English pay. The dye was cast.

The first half was a cagey affair, with Argentina the better side. The No. 10 had an early free kick tipped over the bar by Peter Shilton after the shot had taken a huge deflection off the England wall. Argentine goalkeeper Nery Pumpido nearly gifted England a goal when he chased a ball outside his box, but Peter Beardsley could not take advantage as he failed to find the open net with his curling shot from a tough angle.

Maradona won a free kick just outside the England box when his scything run was halted illegally by Kenny Sansom, but his shot flew just wide, and the sides went into the break tied at nil-all. England were more content with stopping Argentina rather than playing their own game. The 0-0 scoreline at half-time flattered England.

Hand of God...

In the 51st minute, Maradona once again weaved his way through the English midfield before pushing the ball to Valdano on the edge of the box. Steve Hodge attempted to clear the ball but only managed to flick it dangerously towards his own keeper...




GOAL OF THE CENTURY...

On 55 minutes, it happened again: 10.8 seconds, 44 strides and 12 touches was all it took. Four minutes later, Maradona scored a goal which is now etched into the mind of every football fan on the planet, picking the ball up inside his own half and sashaying effortlessly past every English defender who tried to halt his exquisite passage, never once touching the ball with his right foot and never once looking like he wouldn't score...




THE SEMI-FINAL VERSUS BELGIUM

Argentina 2 - 0 Belgium

Argentina were now unstoppable, the semi-final against Belgium was merely a stepping-stone in what seemed to be Argentina’s pre-ordained destiny to win the World Cup. Just in case anybody thought Diego Maradona's stunning performance against England in the quarter-final had been a fluke, the little maestro repeated the dose against Belgium in the semis.

He timed a diagonal run to the right perfectly to latch on to a beautiful Burruchaga through ball and spoon it with the outside of his left foot over Belgian custodian Jean Marie Pfaff for the opening goal.

For his second trick, Maradona shimmied through a cluster of Belgian defenders then finished past Pfaff to register a sublime individual goal to put on the mantelpiece alongside his effort against England. A goal of the tournament contender at any other finals, such was the standard of the goal against England that many overlook his effort against Belgium. Argentina had qualified for their third World Cup final, and Maradona had increased his goal tally to five for the tournament.

THE WORLD CUP FINAL

Argentina 3 - 2 West Germany

The final saw Argentina take on the efficient West Germans. They had barely registered on my radar throughout the tournament and were functional rather than inspirational. Lothar Matthäus – the man Maradona would later claim as the best player he ever came up against – was the final throw of the dice for the rest of the world in their quest to stop El Diego.

Matthäus probably did a better job of stopping Maradona play than anyone else had done in the tournament, but Argentina's collective effort saw them dominate the majority of the contest.

Argentina scored in the 23rd minute through full-back José Brown, to go in at half-time 1-0 up. The tie looked to be over after Jorge Valdano produced a composed finish after 55 minutes. The Germans, however, have a reputation for resilience and the introduction of Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Dieter Hoeness helped swing the momentum in West Germany's favor, and the former halved the deficit 16 minutes before the end of regular time, before goal-machine Rudi Voeller equalized. Suddenly Bilardo’s men began questioning themselves. How could they get to within nine minutes of winning the World Cup after dominating the tournament and then throw it away?

Maradona had one final moment of genius to contribute to the tournament, however. The only way the story could have ended better is if Maradona scored the third and final goal but instead it was a sublime first-time visionary pass from the number 10 which split the entire West German midfield and back-four. Jorge Burruchaga raced clear and calmly slid the ball past Harald Schumacher to make it 3-2 with six minutes left on the clock.

The goal clinched the match and a second world title for Argentina. Argentina had gone from perceived no-hopers to world champions. Never before had a tournament been influenced by just one player. Never had one man made such a difference to a team. It was almost an understatement to award Diego Maradona the Golden Ball for player of the tournament.

There have been great players at many World Cups – Pelé and Johan Cruyff to name just two – but they were all part of a great team. I doubt very much there will be a tournament dominated by one player to such an extent ever again.

Maradona arrived at Mexico '86 as a player firmly in the shadows of Platini and Zico - who were the standard-bearers for the attacking midfield position from the late '70s to mid '80s with their exploits for Juventus and France, and Flamengo and Brazil. Forever on the cusp of becoming either one of the world’s best, or one of the world’s greatest since his anointment as El Pibe de Oro as a prodigiously talented teenager - Maradona had yet to etch his name in the annals of the game. But after what transpired in that magical summer in Mexico, he left the tournament as the most mischievously captivating and arguably, the greatest footballer of all time - rivaled only by Pelé, consigning both Platini and Zico to a lower tier, and dwarfing an entire era of footballers.

Never before or since has any one player loomed so large over an International Tournament.

---------------------------------
Raees/Invictus---------------------------------------------------------------------Team Tuppet

Sub and tactics change for Tuppet

Puskas was looking with despair as his shot at redemption and finally winning a prestigious international tournament was being torn apart from an Argentine kid in the opposition team. He couldn't believe things this kid can do, when before the match his coach was saying "look at that little fat chap, we would murder this lot". He goes to his childhood friend Bozsik and ask if he wants to leave the stadium and drive back to hotel. "You do realize that there are substitutions ? we could still be needed" says Bozsik. Wut ? Puskas, used to playing with rules where you stay out of the pitch when you are not selected in starting xi, is already dragging Bozsik with him on the pitch. Injury or no injury he is going to have a thing or two to say before this game is over. He orders the lanky Russian guy to get out of his pitch, who is happy to oblige, Maradona has already done enough to make him think that may be he should have stayed with 100m racing career after all. He ask Bozsik to kick the long haired hippie out of the pitch and take his place. We'll show this coach what real tactics look like -


Sub - Shesternyov for Puskas and Bozsik for Redondo. Tactic change to mighty magyars.

Platini as Hidegkuti, Garrincha as Czibor and Zagallo as Budai.


Facing Maradona 86 is a daunting task for any team and pose some very interesting tactical challanges. It would be near impossible to stop Maradona completely with the great supporting cast R/I have assembled around him. I think R/I would go with a narrow wingerless attack here and majority of their attacking thrust would be in the middle of the pitch. So to counter this we need to

a) Back our attack and try to outscore them
b) Stay tight in the middle to atleast make it difficult for Maradona and
c) Stretch the pitch on both sides with wide players.


Check, check and check. We move from 4-2-4 in last game to a 4-2-3-1 to exert more control in midfield and provide more defensive solidity against a fantastic midfield of R/Is. We have quite a strong attacking lineup with pedigree in their respective international tournaments. We fill the central defensive area with 2 great defensive midfielders in front of 4 great defenders (all made their respective ToTs) and finally we have two great flanks in Nilton Santos - Zagallo on left and Garrincha on right. And as a bonus we have a fantastic route 1 option in Nilton/Garrincha/Zagallo crossing to the greatest header of the ball in Kocsis.

Defensive Strategy:

As mentioned before the only relative weakness in R/Is setup is centralized nature of their attack and reliance on Maradona for playmaking. If you can trouble Maradona to some extant it would make their attack a lot less impressive. Its obviously easier said than done, probably even impossible to do but this is what we are set up to do. The brilliant playmaker Bozsik makes room for Redondo, who is a lot more defensively secure.

We would play in a normal defensive line. Assuming there is no wide forward to mark out, Victor Andrade would tuck in and make a back 3. While my defense sports less stellar names than my opposition, all of them had brilliant international tournaments and made it to their ToTs. My defenders have relatively easier task as well, as they can stay compact in the middle. Another factor is that all 4 of my defenders are really fast, esp Andrade & Shesternyov and can match well physically with Eusebio & Suarez, neither of which is going to test my defense aerially that much.

Don't want to overplay the narrow attack card. All of Eusebio/Suarez/Maradona can go to wide areas. Its a different type of threat than what an out and out winger provide, while R/I's attacker would go out, they would still look to cut in to central positions which makes my defense able to handle them better. Brehme is obviously a great threat as a wingback, but he has to contend with a god mode Garrincha, so I don't think he can afford to be too attacking. Even when he ventures forward I have him well covered with Andrade, and he'll be taking a pretty big risk on counter leaving Garrincha 1 on 1 with their LCB. Kaltz has to contend with the proven flank of Nilton Santos & Zagallo. One of the best flank in world cup history, I think this could be too much for Kaltz to handle. Kaltz was anyway more about his crossing than storming on the flank and R/I doesn't really have a target man to take advantage of it. Also I don't really know much about Kaltz's performance in whichever international tournament he is representing, so interested in learning more about that.

Offensive Strategy:

Platini would be the playmaker in chief, given the freedom to drop to be deepest midfielder or move beyond Kocsis to a false number 9ish role. Kocsis has experience in playing in this strategy with Hidegkuti. Platini has a solid platform with two hard working midfielders behind, 2 great wingers making space for him and a brilliant and technically proficient target man in front.

Nilton Santos has the freedom of flank on left side, aided by a tucked in Andrade on the other side, even when Santos goes on his mazy run defense would still have 3 man at the back. There is not much between Brehme & Santos, but Brehme has Garrincha to contend with while Santos is free to run the flank with his partner in crime Zagallo. He is IMO better defender as well, as he showcased in his brilliant performance against France at 58 WC, where he is largely credited with shackling a rampaging Fontaine.


Garrincha's instructions are simple, when he gets the ball he would try and beat players and either shoot himself or cross for my "referencia de área" Kocsis to head into. Defensively I don't think he would participate at all and his biggest defensive contribution is to make sure that Brehme is more apprehensive of making his runs on that flank.

Zagallo also has a better platform to perform here, not having to battle with another winger, having a peak Nilton behind, so not having to cover for him, he is finally unleashed to utilize his brilliant tactical knowledge and crossing ability.

Garrincha - Platini Conundrum:

Garrincha & Platini are easily 2 of my best players and along with Maradona 3 best players on the pitch. One thing I would like to mention that if you try to remember most of the fun Garrincha stories like him beating a player then going back to beat him again or waiting on goalline with the ball for goalkeeper to come back so he can beat him again or not remembering who Russians were day after beating them. All of these stories are from 1958 WC. In 62 Garrincha was a different player a more mature player who took responsibilty to drag his team to a world cup win over trying tricks. I am not trying to say he wasn't still very individualistic or a ball hog but that he is much more interested in seeing his team win than his 58 incarnation who was more about having fun. Also the Garrincha not giving a feck about tactics is a bit overstated. He was an international player and was clearly followed instructions, even in his 58 incarnation -

Didi raised his voice, talking to all of us:
"Look we got them beaten, we still have the finals to play. Lets not get anyone else hurt at this stage of the championship !"
We therefore changed our tactics. We had the game won and there really would be little sense starting the last game with one or more of our top player on bench or in hospital. So instead of attacking we passed the ball back and forth, from me to Vava to Garrincha to Didi to Zagallo back to Didi to Garrincha to Vava to me. The french team was getting irritated at our tactic, frustrated in their effort to get the ball back, to tackle to control. But they had little chance, In ball passing I honestly believe that 1958 team was the best ever assembled.

Now Garrincha has played with some of very dominating players in the team with Pele & Didi, both of whom likes to be on the ball and dribble around. Its still not optimal and he would not be seeing the ball as much as 62 but that won't stop him from being a devastating dribbler, fantastic crosser and overall a brilliant forward.

From Platini side, he is the alpha dog in the team as Garrincha simple doesn't care about being that, he has played with greater super stars and performed just as well. Even Platini has played with quite a few very good ball players for France and that never stopped him. He was a direct player in Di Stefano mould, he probably would get a bit frustrated in the beginning as Garrincha is unlikely to play 1-2 with him, but when he sees how much space it creates for him/Kocsis in the middle as he drag opposition defenders around, beating them for fun, he would come to appreciate the value of such a weapon, much like Didi found out.

In the end its about whether to go with 1 brilliant plan and hope it works or have multiple options in the attack. While opposition midfield can try and take Platini out of the game with their very good midfield, Garrincha would step up and run the game from right side. As mentioned before Garrincha/Zagallo/Santos crossing to Kocsis also give us a simple yet very effective goal scoring route. While R/Is defense is very good, I don't think its possible to defend against so many options.


New Additions:

Platini (EU 84) - In 1984 EU Platini was the synthesis of the best of French football. Marrying the playmaking of Kopa with finishing of Fontaine in one neat package he gave us one of the all time greatest performance in a national team shirt. Here he takes the role of the primary playmaker of the team, who would have all the freedom to move to a number 9 position or drop deep to collect the ball from defenders. With so many amazing scorers in my team, he probably would not replicate his amazing goal scoring feats here (although I won't bet against it). The important point is that he don't need to, he is here to orchestrate & control the rhythm of the game and in that he is one of the greatest of all time.

Kocsis (WC 54) - The Golden boot winner of world cup 54 scored an astonishing 11 goals with clutch performances in quarterfinals & semifinals where he score 2 goals apiece against Brazil & Uruguay respectively. He provides an excellent outlet for goals with my brilliant wingers by either heading in or knocking them down for Puskas & Platini to use their lethal finishing. R/I's defense is very good but the combination of greatest pure winger in Garrincha with greatest header of the ball Kocsis is just impossible to shut down for entirety of match.

Redondo (CA 93) - Replaces Bozsik to provide more defensive solidity in midfield while not losing much creatively. He would also clash less with Platini than Bozsik. 24 year old Redondo was part of the 2 man midfield with Simeone, that won the last international trophy for Argentina. He was majestic in Copa America 93, breaking opposition and creating play for Argentina from deep. Argies had a pretty great team with Batigol the star, but were without their talisman Maradona who was still suspended. The competition level was pretty high, with a Brazil that won World cup next year in 94 and had Cafu & Carlos in the ranks, Valderamma led Colombia side and an aging Hugo Sanchez led Mexico.


The one not to be underrated - Mario Zagallo (WC 62):

Mario Zagallo is not a stellar name and in the crowd of great forwards he might seem like a lesser player. But he is exactly the type of player this draft is suppose to shine. I had options of Orsi/Puskas/Fransescoli to chose from to play on the left side, but I believe Zagallo 62 was as better than all of them, not to mention his proven partnerships with Nilton Santos & Garrincha, which elevates him further and IMO to GOAT level for left wing position in this draft.

His contributions to World cup 62 were as important as any player's in this match. In 62 he provided 5 assists and 1 goal, while covering for aging Nilton Santos and providing counter weight to Garrincha's individualism on the other side, getting selected in ToT. His contributions also came in crunch matches he broke the deadlock in the first game. Then in Spain's game after Brazil had fallen behind Zagallo's cross was headed in to get Brazil back in the game after which Garrincha's cross from right won the game for Brazilians. He provided another assist to break the deadlock against England headed in the net via Garrincha. But his best game came in the semifinal where he displayed outstanding wing work from left side providing 3 assists in a 4-2 win. His crossing at times was phenomenal and here he has a peak Nilton Santos behind him and the greatest header of ball in Kocsis, I would not be surprised if Zagallo/Kocsis would decide this game with good old kick it out & cross it in.

More detailed info on Garrincha and other players in my squad could be found in previous game thread here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tuppet-vs-2mufc0-nt-peak-draft.428019/[
 
Last edited:

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
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Thanks @annahmoss. Best of luck @Tuppet. Interesting move with use of Zagallo instead of Puskas. Looks well balanced in attack, but IMO your centre midfield based on international peak and your CB pairing isn't as strong as our back three.. and I can see us causing damage through Maradona in that 10 position (remember Matthaus still couldn't contain him in that 86 final despite his best efforts, and here we don't have an all time great DM - based on international peak form to try and keep him quiet, and Eusebio/Suarez, will IMO be too hot to handle for that CB pairing.
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
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Messages
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Great 5-3-2, some transformation that from your first round side.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
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Great 5-3-2, some transformation that from your first round side.
CRITICISM FROM THE MEDIA

A team without a left flank against a team without a right flank. :lol: You guys are lucky to face each other as now it won't matter.

Not exactly a fan of either sides here. Straight off the bat, both sides look far too narrow, but Brehme does negate that a lot for Raees/Invictus side.
After a dismal first round showing, reminiscent of Argentina's showing at the 1982 World Cup, (scraping through to the next round).. we've been fortunate in being able to pull off what we had envisaged from the beginning aka doing a Bilardo - build the side around none other than Maradona, and demote a legendary South American defender to the bench (although we've cheated a little bit and reinforced with none other than the incomparable Franco Baresi).

.. we took a gamble with the first round tbh, fully aware that our team was not really fully formed. If we had come up against yourself for instance, we'd have been sent packing!
 

Joga Bonito

The Art of Football
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
8,241
.. we took a gamble with the first round tbh, fully aware that our team was not really fully formed
Fair enough, can see the likes of Maradona, Baresi, Eusebio and esp Brehme thriving in this set-up and you guys have done a good job bringing out their strengths with this formation.

Tuppet has a nice side tbf, but I'm just not seeing it with Platini there and I think Pat did a better job of building his side around Platini. Here he seems shoehorned inside a set-up which would have been more suited for Puskas. Shame really as his Brazil 58-62 and Mighty Magyars combination looked promising initially.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
Fair enough, can see the likes of Maradona, Baresi, Eusebio and esp Brehme thriving in this set-up and you guys have done a good job bringing out their strengths with this formation.

Tuppet has a nice side tbf, but I'm just not seeing it with Platini there and I think Pat did a better job of building his side around Platini. Here he seems shoehorned inside a set-up which would have been more suited for Puskas. Shame really as his Brazil 58-62 and Mighty Magyars combination looked promising initially.
TBH shit tonnes of research (which we won't post yet, loadsa gifs etc - give Tuppet a chance to have a say) has gone on behind the scenes to prove why we were so convinced by this team.. in our initial plans, we were hoping to land Diego and Baresi (or Franz) and where we were in the picking order hampered us massively, so we had to gamble on getting a decent draw and just try and put out a semi-cohesive side.

Even someone like Kaltz was picked with future matches in mind, the thinking behind that was that we were hoping he'd bring out the best in someone like Maradona, due to his ability to create width and the synergy he had with Schuster during 1980 (whose best work was down right flank/inside right position when breaking from midfield in a 3-5-2) and that is the type of chemistry we wanted down that right.

Hopefully people can start to fall in love with the side, as there was a disconnect with voters in the first round.
 

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Great job guys @Raees @Invictus I thought this was exactly the side you guys would go for and it looks great. I spent stupid amount of time thinking how to stop this and honestly don't think I have the tools to stop you guys from scoring. But thought we could may be outscore you with our attackers, Garrincha, Platini & esp Kocsis who seem to have gone under the radar a bit here. Anyway this seem too big a lead to surmount at this stage. Fair dos for building a brilliant side. Anyway here's a bit of rationale for going with what I've gone with -

I think I've mentioned already that mine was not a squad built around a player but more about fitting two great players in a tactic I thought could beat you. Tactically using wingers to put pressure on your wingbacks while throwing numbers in middle was the best plan I could muster. In general spreading the play and using wings is one of the best ways to beat narrow formations. Both Santos/Zagallo & Garrincha should be getting loads of space on counters as your wing backs quite naturally push up. There are too many bodies in the middle and they are not poor players by any means, all of them had great tournaments. Could Platini & Garrincha prosper in the same squad ? That's the fantasy part of the draft for me and would require more mental juggling than your side which anyone can instantly fall in love with. In hindsight I think I tried to be overly tactical about it and should just have gone with Puskas over Zagallo so it at least looks like We can score against your monstrous defense.
 

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The lineup is quite surprising, to be honest. We were pretty certain that Tuppet would go with a Zona Mista-esque formation with Bozsik + Mascherano in the CM spots behind Platini - Puskás in the inside left channel as the fantasista - Kocsis up front - and Garrincha in a winger role (not a proper ala tornante per se, but someone who could be a more aggressive attacking option in terms of either stretching the flank or coming inwards). Perhaps it wouldn't be perfectly balanced (eg. Jairzinho would've been more suited to playing in a team with Platini than Garrincha) and you argue argue that there would too many playmaking cooks instead of building through Platini in a Carré Magique, but I'd rate Bozsik over Redondo in terms of peak - and it would be a sterner test for our defense. The more I look at Tuppet's selection, the more it strikes me that he got royally shafted by Enigma's selection of Pelé. Romário up top ahead of the gradmaster, Zagallo left and Garrincha to the right - would've been a devastating and well balanced Brazilian quartet. And that would've allowed him to go with a midfield or defensive reinforcement with pick #2. Fine margins and all.

Anyway, focusing on the current team, reckon Kocsis will get little joy in a packed central defense - especially one marshaled by Baresi (who won't just be a defensive weapon here, but an integral part of our transitional play from the back):

How Baresi can help launch counters and feed Maradona at the half way line:


Precise passes out wide to Brehme/Kaltz to open up the field:


Baresi releasing Eusébio from the deep:


Platini (when he drops) and Redondo's through-balls will be an important outlet for Kocsis, but Baresi is as suited as any one in terms of negating that move as a sweeper:


Baresi was an expert at free-kick management, too, and can put a dent in a deadly bow in Platini's quiver:


Renowned at nullifying attacks, and then transitioning from defense to midfield:


Taking the entire opposition midfield out of the game with one move from the back:


If he isn't pressed by the attackers, Baresi can slalom through and bring the ball to the attacking third:


A consummate defender whose team allowed just 1 goal in the 1990 World Cup (against Maradona's Argentina in the semi-finals at Napoli) - corroborated by his statistics:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IGSs0exDrpqpAzWW48ZoHWazhp-8fmg5BbiFCtPzKME/edit#gid=0

On the far right is Bananenflanken Kaltz - who reprises a similar role to when he won EURO 1980 with Germany - and was an important outlet to the right of Schuster (a force to be reckoned with for Germany in the latter stages of the tournament):



Then there's Bergomi - who was UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1988 selection with Maldini, and an expert man marker. Arguably the best 'fit' for the role with some version of Lilian Thuram and Jürgen Kohler.

And finally, two gold standards for peak World Cup performance in Desailly and Brehme who boast some of the highest coefficients for their positions in the Castrol Index:
Andreas Brehme 1990 9.74
In a FIFA World Cup (TM) with the lowest goals per game average, the most penalties taken (including shoot outs) and the highest fouls per game rate, it was Andreas Brehme’s spot-kick in a predictably tense final which won the tournament for an efficient West German side and highlighted the defender’s importance to his team. An attacking left back, Brehme created a competition-high 23 goal-scoring chances, attempted the most crosses and scored three goals while he also showed off his defensive strengths with a superb 94% tackle success rate.
Marcel Desailly 1998 9.71
France’s success on home soil in 1998 was based on a superb defensive record which saw Les Bleus concede just two goals, the joint-best ever defensive performance by a World Cup-winning side. The former Milan star was a rock at the heart of the French backline, making 38 interceptions and 132 recoveries, both tournament highs, while he also won a superb 88% of his tackles.
As good as Garrincha was in '62 - I reckon the fact that the team doesn't cater to him as a virtuoso per se, and that Kocsis is doubled up through the middle, and Platini is somewhat hampered by Varela will prove to be too big of a stumbling block in terms of outscoring the opposition.
 

Annahnomoss

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Not sold on Eusebio and Maradona working that well together in general but I think for this match up where both Marscherano and Redondo did their best job in possession it would work out well. The rest of the side is great and there's not much to say. Tuppets team isn't bad by any means and Kocsis-Garrincha-Zagallo is perfect picks and Platini could also play off Kocsis's movement a bit. Like always Garrincha is hard to build a team around and like with Puskas I don't think Platini is going to shine here.

A defensively great central midfield with some great CM playmaker would have really have made that team come to life. The struggle is real when you see others reinforce with Pele/Maradona though and you feel the need to get a similar name.
 

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Bit of an off-topic post, but since both Platini and Tigana feature in this match, I thought Fernando Chalana and Rui Jordão were excellent for Portugal in EURO '84 - particularly in the semi-finals vs France:



And back on topic, France's winning goal featuring the Tigana-Platini combo at 119 minutes:

Portugal were hanging on for penalties but still the French came forward. Jean Tigana had been a constant thorn in the side of the Portugal and made one last foray forward.

In the 119th minute Tigana had a pass blocked but immediately won it back and emptied his lungs to take the ball to the byline. Having just played nearly 120 minutes it is astonishing where Tigana found the energy to provide a cut back that eluded an onrushing Bento and fell to Platini on the edge of the six-yard box. With three defenders and a recovering Bento on the line the unflappable holder of the Ballon d’Or coolly rifled the winner home with a rising shot.

In five breathtaking minutes France had gone from the verge of being knocked out to finalists. The French reveled in their victory and went on to win the tournament final in Paris 2-0 against Spain.
http://www.thepanenkablog.com/2016/...opean-championships-france-3-portugal-2-1984/
European Footballer of the Year ("Ballon d'Or")

1984

1. Michel PLATINI (Juventus) (France) 128
2. Jean Tigana (Girondins Bordeaux) (France) 57
3. Preben Elkjær-Larsen (Hellas Verona) (Denmark) 48
4. Ian Rush (Liverpool) (Wales) 44
5. Chalana (Girondins Bordeaux) (Portugal) 18
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html
 

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Raees

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Great job guys @Raees @Invictus I thought this was exactly the side you guys would go for and it looks great. I spent stupid amount of time thinking how to stop this and honestly don't think I have the tools to stop you guys from scoring. But thought we could may be outscore you with our attackers, Garrincha, Platini & esp Kocsis who seem to have gone under the radar a bit here. Anyway this seem too big a lead to surmount at this stage. Fair dos for building a brilliant side. Anyway here's a bit of rationale for going with what I've gone with -

I think I've mentioned already that mine was not a squad built around a player but more about fitting two great players in a tactic I thought could beat you. Tactically using wingers to put pressure on your wingbacks while throwing numbers in middle was the best plan I could muster. In general spreading the play and using wings is one of the best ways to beat narrow formations. Both Santos/Zagallo & Garrincha should be getting loads of space on counters as your wing backs quite naturally push up. There are too many bodies in the middle and they are not poor players by any means, all of them had great tournaments. Could Platini & Garrincha prosper in the same squad ? That's the fantasy part of the draft for me and would require more mental juggling than your side which anyone can instantly fall in love with. In hindsight I think I tried to be overly tactical about it and should just have gone with Puskas over Zagallo so it at least looks like We can score against your monstrous defense.
Thanks bud, although I was one of those who rather liked your first round side and would have preferred you to reinforce that defence and stick with the attack as it was - maybe bring Enzo into it.

Your squad was almost too talented but I think you made a good fist out of putting a balanced side out in this game.
 

Raees

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Not sold on Eusebio and Maradona working that well together in general but I think for this match up where both Marscherano and Redondo did their best job in possession it would work out well. The rest of the side is great and there's not much to say. Tuppets team isn't bad by any means and Kocsis-Garrincha-Zagallo is perfect picks and Platini could also play off Kocsis's movement a bit. Like always Garrincha is hard to build a team around and like with Puskas I don't think Platini is going to shine here.

A defensively great central midfield with some great CM playmaker would have really have made that team come to life. The struggle is real when you see others reinforce with Pele/Maradona though and you feel the need to get a similar name.
If we look at purely peak form there isn't many forwards who bring Eusebio ability to run at defences and stretch opposition in addition to that goal threat.

Whilst Maradona and Eusébio as a duo would arguably not fit perfectly as a 9 and 10 combo - as the creative and free roaming support strikers/trequartistas they're so formidable and a great match.. reminds me of Messi/Neymar combo but with much more quality against all time level defences.. constantly going out wide and reacting to each other's movements.

Key is having right striker in front of them and permanent width being supplied elsewhere in the side to give them the space they need to interlink.

Plus Eusebio in 66 started to get lots of man marking attention by DMs, whereas I'd like to see them try and focus on him when Maradona is in 86 form.
 

Balu

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Whilst Maradona and Eusébio as a duo would arguably not fit perfectly as a 9 and 10 combo - as the creative and free roaming support strikers/trequartistas they're so formidable and a great match.. reminds me of Messi/Neymar combo but with much more quality against all time level defences.. constantly going out wide and reacting to each other's movements.
Fully agree with this. A 532-ish formation offers enough space for a free roaming 2nd forward and a free roaming AM. Would have hated it if you used Eusebio as the number 9 here, but this set-up is wonderful.
 
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Annahnomoss

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If we look at purely peak form there isn't many forwards who bring Eusebio ability to run at defences and stretch opposition in addition to that goal threat.

Whilst Maradona and Eusébio as a duo would arguably not fit perfectly as a 9 and 10 combo - as the creative and free roaming support strikers/trequartistas they're so formidable and a great match.. reminds me of Messi/Neymar combo but with much more quality against all time level defences.. constantly going out wide and reacting to each other's movements.

Key is having right striker in front of them and permanent width being supplied elsewhere in the side to give them the space they need to interlink.

Plus Eusebio in 66 started to get lots of man marking attention by DMs, whereas I'd like to see them try and focus on him when Maradona is in 86 form.

Fully agree with this. A 532-ish formation offers enough space for a free roaming 2nd forward and a free roaming AM. Would have hated it if you used Eusebio as the number 9 here, but this set-up is wonderful.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'll revisit some Eusebio from '66. After all my last game I saw of him was Voronin taking him out of the game and that's not a fair fresh memory to have.
 

Raees

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Maybe I'm wrong, I'll revisit some Eusebio from '66. After all my last game I saw of him was Voronin taking him out of the game and that's not a fair fresh memory to have.
If anything the Voronin issue illustrates our point that they both will be better off with each other's presence to detract man markers rather than get in each other way.
 

harms

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The score :eek:

For me, the key difference is Varela and Tigana (and relatively underwhelming Mascherano and Redondo combo), who will be a better cover for their defence in this game. Well, and monstrous Desailly-Baresi-Bergomi trio, which is enough to stop most attackers on their own.
 

Annahnomoss

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If anything the Voronin issue illustrates our point that they both will be better off with each other's presence to detract man markers rather than get in each other way.
I definitely buy the fact that if one gets all out man marked you still have an option also here where the DM's are weak you can have the two drop deep and abuse that. But offensively I am not too sure if it is a pair that will improve each other, work alright, or maybe be a poor fit.
 

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Maybe I'm wrong, I'll revisit some Eusebio from '66. After all my last game I saw of him was Voronin taking him out of the game and that's not a fair fresh memory to have.
Never overrate the glorified friendly that is the match for 3rd place at a World Cup. I don't want to take anything away from Voronin's brilliance, but Eusebio's done more than enough at that tournament against excellent opponents to justify his reputation. It's impossible to judge players in a rather meaningless game after the heartbreak of losing a semifinal. some can motivate themselves, others don't give a shit or simply don't play at 100%.
 

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Sub and tactics change for Tuppet

Puskas was looking with despair as his shot at redemption and finally winning a prestigious international tournament was being torn apart from an Argentine kid in the opposition team. He couldn't believe things this kid can do, when before the match his coach was saying "look at that little fat chap, we would murder this lot". He goes to his childhood friend Bozsik and ask if he wants to leave the stadium and drive back to hotel. "You do realize that there are substitutions ? we could still be needed" says Bozsik. Wut ? Puskas, used to playing with rules where you stay out of the pitch when you are not selected in starting xi, is already dragging Bozsik with him on the pitch. Injury or no injury he is going to have a thing or two to say before this game is over. He orders the lanky Russian guy to get out of his pitch, who is happy to oblige, Maradona has already done enough to make him think that may be he should have stayed with 100m racing career after all. He ask Bozsik to kick the long haired hippie out of the pitch and take his place. We'll show this coach what real tactics look like -



Sub - Shesternyov for Puskas and Bozsik for Redondo. Tactic change to mighty magyars.

Platini as Hidegkuti, Garrincha as Czibor and Zagallo as Budai.
 

Annahnomoss

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Never overrate the glorified friendly that is the match for 3rd place at a World Cup. I don't want to take anything away from Voronin's brilliance, but Eusebio's done more than enough at that tournament against excellent opponents to justify his reputation. It's impossible to judge players in a rather meaningless game after the heartbreak of losing a semifinal. some can motivate themselves, others don't give a shit or simply don't play at 100%.
Wasn't an attack on Eusebio. :lol: Was just stating the fact that the last I saw of him was that game which I followed up with saying isn't fair on him.
 

Ecstatic

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Sub and tactics change for Tuppet

Puskas was looking with despair as his shot at redemption and finally winning a prestigious international tournament was being torn apart from an Argentine kid in the opposition team. He couldn't believe things this kid can do, when before the match his coach was saying "look at that little fat chap, we would murder this lot". He goes to his childhood friend Bozsik and ask if he wants to leave the stadium and drive back to hotel. "You do realize that there are substitutions ? we could still be needed" says Bozsik. Wut ? Puskas, used to playing with rules where you stay out of the pitch when you are not selected in starting xi, is already dragging Bozsik with him on the pitch. Injury or no injury he is going to have a thing or two to say before this game is over. He orders the lanky Russian guy to get out of his pitch, who is happy to oblige, Maradona has already done enough to make him think that may be he should have stayed with 100m racing career after all. He ask Bozsik to kick the long haired hippie out of the pitch and take his place. We'll show this coach what real tactics look like -



Sub - Shesternyov for Puskas and Bozsik for Redondo. Tactic change to mighty magyars.

Platini as Hidegkuti, Garrincha as Czibor and Zagallo as Budai.
Very interesting move.

I thought Golden Hungary would have been the guiding principle for Tuppet

Czibor=Zagallo and Budai=Garrincha
 

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Coach: Gustav Sebes
Achievements: 1952 Olympics, record unbeaten run 1950-54, first team to beat England at Wembley, 1954 World Cup finalists.
Key Players: Puskas, Kocsis, Hidegkuti, Czibor, Bozsik, Grocsis
Star Player: Puskas
Formation: 3-2-1-4

The Hungarian football team of the 1950’s redefined the sport of soccer, revolutionising the way the game was approached and breaking records along the way. The team, under the visionary leadership of Sebes, and with the sublime on-pitch leadership of Puskas, developed a new style of play which included a revolutionary withdrawn centre-forward role (Hidegutki), a sweeper-keeper and fluid movement between positions for other players, notably Czibor. These are of course, all features that are used to this day. Their revolution was announced dramatically to the world when they became the first foreign team to beat England at home, thrashing the, 6-3 in 1953. Between June 1950 and the Hungarian Revolution in 1956 the Magnificent Magyars compiled a competitive record of forty-two wins, seven draws and only one defeat. The tragedy is that the defeat came in the final of the 1954 World Cup.

Rarely has a single national side been blessed with as many truly world class players inhabiting a single era. Yet Hungary during the 1950’s could call upon the services of a plethora of international stars. The incomparable Ferenc Puskas, arguably the greatest goalscorer in the history of the modern game, with 84 goals in 85 games, captained the team. His strike partner was the equally predatory Sandor Kocsis, a forward whose 75 international goals were plundered in only 68 matches. Completing the triumvirate of attacking geniuses was the deep-lying centre forward Nandor Hidegkuti (39 goals in 69 games), the last man to score a hat trick against England at Wembley, way back in 1953.

Aside from the strikers Hungary could call on the services of two other genuinely world class talents. Jozef Bozik in central midfield was the schemer and playmaker, the man who loaded the bullets for the strike force to fire. On the wing the mobile and visionary Zoltan Czibor epitomised the speedy and skilful wide player. Quite simply no other team in the international arena could match the Hungarian juggernaut over an unbeaten run.
 

Enigma_87

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Missed the game. Looks great team @Raees @Invictus has created so congrats you both.

Feel the result is quite harsh on @Tuppet tho. Stylistically his team looks excellent and there's a lot to like about it. Maybe Mascherano is a bit light in this company, but he's a good tactical fit for Bozsik and Platini.

Complimentary/balanced wingers and solid defence.

:lol:

Just saw this match. Raees/Invictus has a better team. Wonder why they have Eusebio on the left?
He had a lot of runs down the left against North Korea for example, so he won't look out of place on either wing. He's more of a free role attacking forward than having a particular side in that tournament.

The only question is whether he'll fit well with Maradona, as the 66 version used to operate in that same particular space. That's the only issue I see. If we take Benfica Eusebio for example there's no problem in filling either role - 9/10 or 9.5.

Personally I've used Eusebio as a 9 or SS playing off another 9(Ronaldo) or highly mobile #9 with two goalscoring wingers. With a #10 like Maradona is a bit off, but doesn't necessary mean that it won't work or be a poor fit.
 

Raees

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Missed the game. Looks great team @Raees @Invictus has created so congrats you both.

Feel the result is quite harsh on @Tuppet tho. Stylistically his team looks excellent and there's a lot to like about it. Maybe Mascherano is a bit light in this company, but he's a good tactical fit for Bozsik and Platini.

Complimentary/balanced wingers and solid defence.


He had a lot of runs down the left against North Korea for example, so he won't look out of place on either wing. He's more of a free role attacking forward than having a particular side in that tournament.

The only question is whether he'll fit well with Maradona, as the 66 version used to operate in that same particular space. That's the only issue I see. If we take Benfica Eusebio for example there's no problem in filling either role - 9/10 or 9.5.

Personally I've used Eusebio as a 9 or SS playing off another 9(Ronaldo) or highly mobile #9 with two goalscoring wingers. With a #10 like Maradona is a bit off, but doesn't necessary mean that it won't work or be a poor fit.
The way we saw it is..

If you have Messi (who loves the right wing/inside right position - never ventures down the left side).. then if you're going to have another big forward in the side, they'll need to be favouring the left side and rarely if ever come on the other flank aka Neymar for them both to get on well and not get in each others way).

With Maradona, he differs to Messi in that he needed the freedom to roam either flank to get the best out of him, as he was a bona fide 10 and never really a winger. Yes you could keep him pinned down on the right side, but the 86 Maradona needs to be allowed to drift left so that his world class crossing can come into play 'skips down his marker down the left and puts in a hanging cross' was a strong surprise feature of his play.

Likewise, Eusebio too was at his best when allowed to roam, so he wasn't exactly like a Neymar who prefers the left or prefers the right like the way it is often assumed.. he's at his best when given a free role and allowed to alternate between flanks and also come into centre and run at CB's.

That is why we were convinced these two are made for each other as they can both roam into each others position and alternate at will, without feeling compromised.. it will bring out the best in them and keep their markers guessing.

If Maradona feints right and starts slaloming down the left, Eusebio darts across with a run and occupies inside right or right flank.. or vice versa and with the likes of Kaltz/Brehme providing permanent width and with a forward like Suarez with his brilliant movement.. it would work wonderfully imo.

In very tight games like this, you need fluidity in your attackers to break down all-time great defences but it does need to make sense... I don't think here there is a compatibility issue at all.
 

Enigma_87

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The way we saw it is..

If you have Messi (who loves the right wing/inside right position - never ventures down the left side).. then if you're going to have another big forward in the side, they'll need to be favouring the left side and rarely if ever come on the other flank aka Neymar for them both to get on well and not get in each others way).

With Maradona, he differs to Messi in that he needed the freedom to roam either flank to get the best out of him, as he was a bona fide 10 and never really a winger. Yes you could keep him pinned down on the right side, but the 86 Maradona needs to be allowed to drift left so that his world class crossing can come into play 'skips down his marker down the left and puts in a hanging cross' was a strong surprise feature of his play.

Likewise, Eusebio too was at his best when allowed to roam, so he wasn't exactly like a Neymar who prefers the left or prefers the right like the way it is often assumed.. he's at his best when given a free role and allowed to alternate between flanks and also come into centre and run at CB's.

That is why we were convinced these two are made for each other as they can both roam into each others position and alternate at will, without feeling compromised.. it will bring out the best in them and keep their markers guessing.

If Maradona feints right and starts slaloming down the left, Eusebio darts across with a run and occupies inside right or right flank.. or vice versa and with the likes of Kaltz/Brehme providing permanent width and with a forward like Suarez with his brilliant movement.. it would work wonderfully imo.

In very tight games like this, you need fluidity in your attackers to break down all-time great defences but it does need to make sense... I don't think here there is a compatibility issue at all.
Well the 'issue' I had when playing Eusebio(picked him twice before) is not operating on the flanks per say but the #10 zone where he loved to drop back and confuse his markers. Now with two wing forwards he can drop back in that space and make room for either of them to come inside, or swap places with them on the flank.

Essentially having 3 intelligent, roaming forwards is not an issue playing without a typical #10 as they can interchange and swap places. When there is a dedicated #10, of course roaming himself, he kinda restricts him to that space as it's usually the space he operates himself pulling the strings.

Not that I have a huge issue with it, mind, but just the way I see Eusebio ideally, when we talk formations, is either as a 9/false 9(not playmaker) in a 4-3-3, 4-4-2 with a partner or a 4-3-3 as a wing forward with license to roam/swap places and overlapping fullback.

Again, don't get me wrong mate, I think Eusebio is a good fit for any front three, when you have his versatility in mind and his attributes and qualities. It's just not ideal pair with a Maradona/Pele type of 10 to me. Still it's minor issue rather than a dealbreaker of sorts. :)
 

Joga Bonito

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Well the 'issue' I had when playing Eusebio(picked him twice before) is not operating on the flanks per say but the #10 zone where he loved to drop back and confuse his markers. Now with two wing forwards he can drop back in that space and make room for either of them to come inside, or swap places with them on the flank.

Essentially having 3 intelligent, roaming forwards is not an issue playing without a typical #10 as they can interchange and swap places. When there is a dedicated #10, of course roaming himself, he kinda restricts him to that space as it's usually the space he operates himself pulling the strings.

Not that I have a huge issue with it, mind, but just the way I see Eusebio ideally, when we talk formations, is either as a 9/false 9(not playmaker) in a 4-3-3, 4-4-2 with a partner or a 4-3-3 as a wing forward with license to roam/swap places and overlapping fullback.

Again, don't get me wrong mate, I think Eusebio is a good fit for any front three, when you have his versatility in mind and his attributes and qualities. It's just not ideal pair with a Maradona/Pele type of 10 to me. Still it's minor issue rather than a dealbreaker of sorts. :)
Get where you are coming from and it could have been an issue in a conventional back 4 set-up. However, I can see Maradona and Eusebio thriving on the extra freedom with just 3 forwards (with the fairly selfless Suarez playing a crucial role) and of course a midfield duo which plays more of a supportive role than an overly dominant role. Think Maradona and Eusebio have more than enough freedom and space to thrive with here.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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He had a lot of runs down the left against North Korea for example, so he won't look out of place on either wing. He's more of a free role attacking forward than having a particular side in that tournament.
I think we've had this discussion before. For me, his best position is on right wing playing in a free role behind a striker. As with any player he will be seen in other positions, but that doesn't change the best way to utilize him.

Anyway, all the best way forward. The Eusebio discussions aside, it really is a cracking back 5.
 

harms

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To be honest I always wanted to have a 3-5-2 based on this attacking trio, should work like a charm in my opinion. Suarez is very similar to Seeler in this role (just not quite as good)
Eusebio -- Seeler
--- Maradona
 

Enigma_87

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I think we've had this discussion before. For me, his best position is on right wing playing in a free role behind a striker. As with any player he will be seen in other positions, but that doesn't change the best way to utilize him.

Anyway, all the best way forward. The Eusebio discussions aside, it really is a cracking back 5.
Yeah indeed. IMO he's fluent on either side. Basically a free roaming attacker role.
 
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The teams in this draft (and previous) are so well thought through..... don't know where you get the time. This one no exception, kudos x2.

On the one hand, Tuppet has a very good team including Platini 84 :drool: .... one of my all time favourite players with an amazing performance in a team that was everything good about football.

But, Raees/Inv have a GOAT with arguably THE greatest individual tournament performance ever, an amazing back three and solid players all over (including a sometimes underrated Tigana). Have to vote for this...... despite containing Suarez :mad:.
 

Enigma_87

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Get where you are coming from and it could have been an issue in a conventional back 4 set-up. However, I can see Maradona and Eusebio thriving on the extra freedom with just 3 forwards (with the fairly selfless Suarez playing a crucial role) and of course a midfield duo which plays more of a supportive role than an overly dominant role. Think Maradona and Eusebio have more than enough freedom and space to thrive with here.
I see where you are coming from - so probably both Suarez and Eusebio playing a sort of selfless role to set up the stage for Maradona.

Eusebio can fulfil that role and he's a great team player.

3-5-2 facilitates mobile and versatile players giving them more space I'd give you that.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
The way we saw it is..

If you have Messi (who loves the right wing/inside right position - never ventures down the left side).. then if you're going to have another big forward in the side, they'll need to be favouring the left side and rarely if ever come on the other flank aka Neymar for them both to get on well and not get in each others way).

With Maradona, he differs to Messi in that he needed the freedom to roam either flank to get the best out of him, as he was a bona fide 10 and never really a winger. Yes you could keep him pinned down on the right side, but the 86 Maradona needs to be allowed to drift left so that his world class crossing can come into play 'skips down his marker down the left and puts in a hanging cross' was a strong surprise feature of his play.

Likewise, Eusebio too was at his best when allowed to roam, so he wasn't exactly like a Neymar who prefers the left or prefers the right like the way it is often assumed.. he's at his best when given a free role and allowed to alternate between flanks and also come into centre and run at CB's.

That is why we were convinced these two are made for each other as they can both roam into each others position and alternate at will, without feeling compromised.. it will bring out the best in them and keep their markers guessing.

If Maradona feints right and starts slaloming down the left, Eusebio darts across with a run and occupies inside right or right flank.. or vice versa and with the likes of Kaltz/Brehme providing permanent width and with a forward like Suarez with his brilliant movement.. it would work wonderfully imo.

In very tight games like this, you need fluidity in your attackers to break down all-time great defences but it does need to make sense... I don't think here there is a compatibility issue at all.
It works brilliantly IMO. Skizzo and I fielded that Maradona/Eusebio combo before in an all-time draft, in an initially clumsy set up that ended up coming together nicely for the final:



While there's a drop in idividual quality from van Basten to Suarez, Suarez arguably works better as a facilitator to Maradona and Eusebio.