Raees VS EAP - All-time 3 year peak - Auction draft

Who would win based on players in their 3-yr peak?


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Annahnomoss

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TEAM RAEES - SUMMARY

My team will line up in a 4-3-3, which out of possession will be a 4-4-2 with Kopa coming back to join the trio of midfielders to produce two banks of 4 whilst Meazza and Puskas are absolved of any defensive responsibility. The team will play with the midfield trio with the triangle facing up allowing the attacking mid the freedom to roam as he sees fit when the team has possession, out of possession he will help form the shield in front of the defence and the LCDM will help support Schenillinger on the left.

THE DEFENCE


My man between the sticks is Lev YASHIN (60-63), who is universally acclaimed the greatest keeper of all time. First and last keeper to win the Ballon D’or, he was magnificent in leading Russia to the European Championship and Gordon Banks referred to him as the reference point for all those aspiring to be legendary keepers. While his time with the Soviets was littered with success, perhaps his greatest moment came in 1963 when he appeared as part of the Rest of the World XI against England in the FA’s centenary match. The ‘Black Panther’, as he was now known, due to his distinctive black outfit, made a string of sensational saves, fully justifying his more fearsome ‘Black Spider’ moniker to his opponents.

In the heart of defence is the arguably the greatest man marker of the draft Jurgen KOHLER (90-93), He was famed for his defensive perception, physical strength and prowess in the air leading Germany to World Cup glory in Italia 90, the final of euro 92, starring for Juve during the 90’s and winning the European cup with Dortmund.

He will be complemented in defence by the legendary Ajax sweeper Velibor VASOVIC (68-71). A complete defender. Quick, tactically astute, never-say-die attitude, excellent in the air, always in the right place at the right time. Vasovic is in an elite club of defenders (e.g. Beckenbauer, Facchetti) who revolutionised the game and the art of defending in the 60s and early 70s. A leader as well, he captained both Partizan Belgrade and Ajax to three European Cup finals, winning one and scoring his side's only goal in the two he lost.

At right back we have the modern day reference point for the position Marcos CAFU (98-02). At left back we have the defensively astute left-back cum sweeper, legendary German Karl-Heinze SCHNELLINGER (full profile found here).

THE MIDFIELD


In midfield we have a brilliant trio of complete footballers.Lothar MATTHÄUS(88-91)and DIDI (58-62) are the two best central midfielders of all time, the ones who match their brilliance with high level trophies to back them up.. each one is capable of leading a nation on their back but combined, which midfield would be able to compete with such a duo. World cup winners and the leading players for their side (1958, 1962 and 1990).

In addition to the dynamic duo I have what was arguably the first proper global footballing superstar, Pele before his time… Jose Leandro ANDRADE (1924-28)- the star of the 1930 Uruguay world cup, a team which dominated international football in the 1920’s with ’The Black Marvel’ at the forefront. He played on the right side of a three man midfield, equivalent to a wing/back/right midfielder of a diamond in modern parlance and mixed brilliant defensive skills such as anticipation/timing of the tackle with exemplary skill, athleticism and technique going forwards.

THE ATTACK

Up front we have the sensational trio of Raymond KOPA (55-58) (full profile found here), Giuseppe MEAZZA (1934-1938) and Ferenc PUSKAS (52-55). All three were mesmeric virtuosos, all time great dribbling/passing/scoring hybrids who could do it all single-handedly and were the main stars in their respective sides. Puskas if he hadn’t got injured during the early stages of the 1954 tournament would no doubt have led Hungary to the World cup and cemented his status as arguably the best striker of all time, as it was.. he is up there but surpassed by Pele. Best footballer of the 1950’s easily. Meazza is considered by some as the best player in Italian history and was the catalyst for back to back world cups in 1934 and 1938, Kopa was the star of world cup 1958.

TACTICAL BATTLE (Defending against EAP)



EAP has some brilliant names in midfield and attack, brilliant wing backs too but if I had to pick out a weakness in his attack it is pace which in a titanic duel between top quality sides might be the telling point. Rivelino, Kocsis weren’t reknowned for their pace and Jairzinho his best direct match-winning threat is up against Schnellinger whose the perfect full back to take on a goalscoring wideman.

In midfield he has the likes of Schuster/Charlton who can drive at the heart of my defence but once again with the likes of Didi/Andrade/Matthaus I have such a dynamic trio of midfielders that is unlikely they will be found wanting in terms of tracking their men.

His best shot is probably using his wing backs in Djalma (one of the all time greats) and Lizarazu out wide to try and stretch my side, firing in crosses to the golden head Kocsis renowned for his aerial prowess but that plays into my hands as I have Vasovic/Kohler.. extremely comfortable in dealing with aerial threats and Schneillinger is one of the leading full backs at heading the ball, he was a beast in the air.

TACTICS (Attacking against EAP)

EAP has a strong defence, Sammer as sweeper, Forster/Burgnich are rock solid and he has quality full backs but the question ultimately is if the defence as strong as it is of the right calibre to defend against the likes of Kopa, Meazza and Puskas. It is a very similar trio to Messi, Neymar, Suarez in that you have three extremely dynamic attackers all who can do everything.. in contrast to the slower static attack of EAP, I have three main men and virtuosos.. legends of their nation and it would take an all time great defence to keep them quiet, you would need Baresi, Beckenbauer level defensive greats to keep them schtum. His defence is very strong though so it could go either way here but outside of Pele/Ronaldo, I couldn’t really do more here.

The support from midfield and full back is also incredibly strong.. You have Cafu out wide on the right, the drive and power of Matthaus, Andrade, Didi (all multiple world cup winners).. all three of them can drive from wide positions or carve through the centre.. score goals themselves and it is scary to think what this team is capable of when it gets going and moves the ball about. My attack is very unpredictable, especially strong down the right (Cafu, Andrade, Kopa) and you can’t imagine a clean sheet being kept against a side like mine as that is one example of a clear route to goal.

KEY BATTLES


· MATTHAUS, DIDi, ANDRADE V SAMMER, SCHUSTER, CHARLTON

· KOPA, MEAZZA, PUSKAS v SAMMER, BURGNICH, FORSTER

· RIVELINO, JAIRZINHO, KOCIS v CAFU, KOHLER, VASOVIC, SCHNELLINGER.




-------------------------------TEAM RAEES
----------------------------------VERSUS
---------------------------------TEAM EAP

 
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Annahnomoss

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Defence:

Bixente Lizarazu - World cup winning LB who had a stellar career with French National Team and numerous club domestic and European honours with Bayern Munich.
Karkheinz Forster - One of the best man markers of all time. Stopper.
Tarcisio Burgnich - One of the best Italian defenders of all time. Sweeper.
Djalma Santos - The GREATEST Right Back of all time. End of.

Both Forster and Burgnich are capable of moving out and playing as LCB and RCB when Sammer drops back centrally.

Defensive Midfield:

Matthias Sammer - One of the only 3 defenders to ever win the Ballon d'Or. Playing at his peak Euro'96 role where he held together the German defence in absence of Matthaus and Kohler and managed to score 2 goals with a Player of the Tournament performance he will replicate his influential form here.

Central Midfield:

Bobby Charlton - One of the greatest midfielders of all time. Ballon d'Or winner. Renowned for his attacking instincts and passing abilities from midfield and his ferocious long-range shot.
Bernd Schuster - Skill. Speed. Aggressive running. The man who was pivotal in Germany dominating games in Euro 1980 reprises his position here.

Two player with stamina, skill and attacking instinct will run the game from the middle. With Sammer behind them taking care of defensive duties, they will control the midfield to my advantage.

Attacking Midfield:

Rivellino - One of the most graceful football players ever, and among the best midfielders of his generation. With the close control, feints and ability with his left foot, Diego Maradona named Rivellino among his greatest inspirations growing up.

Jairzinho - 'The Hurricane'. A speedy quick winger who is one of the only two players to have scored in every game of the world cup. Replacing Garrincha is a big shoe to fill, but making that spot his own takes a special kind of person and that's why Jairzinho is one of the best right wingers of all time.

Brazil 1970, arguable the greatest world cup team ever. Rivellino and Jairzinho combined to score 10 goals amongst themselves. Their pace, trickery and goal scoring ability will be a constant threat.

Attack:

Sandor Kocsis -

Kocsis was the top goal scorer in the 1954 World Cup with 11 goals, being the first player to score two hat tricks in a World Cup. His record 2.2 goal/game average in a single World Cup finals competition is still unbeaten as of 2014. His predatory goal scoring instinct combined with hold up play ability to bring in others will make this team a perfectly meshed classic.[/QUOTE]

I predict Raees will be playing a 4-3-3 here.

Gameplay:

Midfield Balance:

As discussed in the main thread, his midfield lacks the balance to operate at full efficiency. He has 3 B2B players and without a dedicated anchor, their all round game will not be to the optimal.

His right flank vs my left: Cafu-Andrade-Kopa vs Lizarazu-Charlton-Rivelino:

The left flank will be highly creative. Charlton began his career as a left winger before he moved to centre. Rivellino was a AM deployed down the left side for iconic Brazil '70. The flexibility offered by them interchanging will confuse any opposition. Charlton drifting down left edge of the box whilst Rivellino cuts in the middle or vice versa will both be equally effective. Add in Lizarazu's rampaging runs up that flank providing overlapping width, this wing will be nightmare for any opponent to defend. With Sammer's ability to drop back and Kh Forster having operated as LCB in Euro 80 winning campaign, that flank is protected adequately to back stop Lizarazu's runs.

I think I have a slight advantage here. Firstly, with Charlton here, I expect Andrade to be playing a more defensive role, something that takes away his full b2b potential and puts him in a restricted role. Whenever he moves to link Cafu-Kopa, Charlton is always there to exploit spaces, something he was exceedingly brilliant at. Secondly, Kopa is facing KarlHeinz Forster, one of the greatest man markers ever. with support from Lizarazu, I think I'm adequately protected there. Rivellino is the wild card here. He is not a traditional winger to be covered by Cafu, He'll just cut in to the middle with Charlton drifting to the outside dragging defenders out of position.

His left flank vs my right: Schnellinger-Matthaus(or Didi)-Meazza vs Djalma Santos - Schuster-Jairzinho:

The right flank is equally productive though with a different style with Jairzinho there being a top goal scorer. Djalma is a balanced right back making timely runs up. Most of the game, he will move up the half-way line and act as stopper with Schuster in the middle and Jairzinho ahead of him doing the job upfront. Schuster dominated Euro 80 in that role and with Jairzinho able to provide width there, I don't need a uber-aggressive full back there.Charlton will drift wherever there is space and him moving right with Rivellino to his left will overload this flank in my favour.

Djalma Santos is one of the best (if not THE best) RB of all time and eminently capable of defending against Meazza. He has support from Burgnich wh
o has operated as RB himself and so is confortable drfiting that way if needed. Between them, they can handle anything that comes down that wing comfortably.

.

Tbh, Puskas is the optimally used solely leading the line. He was a inside left and used similarly for both Hungary (left striker with Kocsis on the right) and in Real Madrid (left sided striker behind Di Stefano). I think Puskas and the role Meazza is playing here will overlap quite a bit. Either way Sammer is employed in a defensive role here and will ensure that neither Puskas not Kopa will have time and space to do any damage here.


Bixente Lizarazu

1998-99:
DFB-Ligapokal, DFB-Pokal, Bundesliga, FIFA World Cup, ESM Team of the Year

1999-00:
SFB-Pokal, Bundesliga, UEFA European Championship

2000-01:
UEFA European Championship, UEFA Team of the Year, Intercontinental Cup, UEFA Super Cup (Runner up)

Karlheinz Förster

1980-81:
UEFA European Championship

1981-82:
German Footballer of the Year

1982-83:
FIFA World Cup (Runner Up)

Tarcisio Burgnich

Integral part of the famed Grande Inter line-up.

1964:
UEFA Champions League (European Cup)

1965:
UEFA Champions League (European Cup)

1966:
Serie A winner

Djalma Santos

A superlative career that cannot be constrained into any ‘peaks’. The fact that he is one of only three players to be included into three FIFA World Cup All Star teams (in 1954, 1958 and 1962) says it all.
Bobby Charlton put him in his all-time XI and said “I had never seen anyone could get pass him even one time.”

Matthias Sammer

1994-95:
Bundesliga, DFB-Supercup, ESM Team of the Year, German Footballer of the Year

1995-96:
Bundesliga, DFB-Supercup, UEFA Euro Championship (winner, Best Player and Team of the Torunament), German Footballer of the Year, Onze d’Or, Balon d’Or

1996-97:
UEFA Champions League


Sir Bobby Charlton

1965-66:
FWA Footballer of the Year, Charity Shield winner

1966-67:
Balon d’Or , League 1st Division winner, FIFI World Cup all Star team,

1967-68:
UEFA Euro Championship (Bronze), Charity Shield winner, UEFA Champions League (European Cup)


Bernd Schuster

1980-81:
Copa Del Ray winner, UEFA European Football Championship winner, UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament, Balon d’Or (Runner Up)

1981-82:
European Cup Winners Cup winner, Balon d’Or (Third Place)

1982-83:
Copa Del Ray winner, Supercopa de España winner, Copa de la Liga winner

Roberto Rivellino

1970-71
FIFA World Cup winner

1971-72
Bola de Prata Brazilian Championship All-Star Team

1972-73
Bronze ball South American Footballer of the Year

Jairzinho

1968-69
Torneio de Caracas, Taça Brasil de Futebol, State Championship, Guanabara Cup,

1969-70

1970-71
FIFA World Cup winner

Sándor Kocsis

1951-52
Olympic Champions, Hungarian Champions

1952-53
Central European Champions

1953-54
FIFA World Cup Runner up, FIFA World Cup Golden Boot, FIFA World Cup All-Star Team, Hungarian Champions

Oliver Kahn

1999-2000
Best Bundesliga Keeper, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, ESM Team of the Year

2000-01
Best Bundesliga Keeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, ESM Team of the Year, UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match, Ballon d'Or – Third place

2001-02
Best Bundesliga Keeper, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, Ballon d'Or – Third place

2002-03
Best Bundesliga Keeper, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, ESM Team of the Year, FIFA World Cup Golden Ball, FIFA World Cup Yashin Award, FIFA World Cup All-Star Team, FIFA World Player of the Year – Silver award.
 
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crappycraperson

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Too narrow Raees... that arrow on Kopa looks desperate. Your full backs will help though. Also a lot of folks criticized Puskas and Platini being in same time same time back, I wonder if Kopa and Puskas present a similar problem. Thunk you might be better off playing a pure forward version of Meazza.
 

Raees

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Kopa and Puskas have proven success together at Madrid whilst trying to incorporate another central player in Di Stefano.


Kopa is proven out wide, and even as a 10 he would drift out wide and run at full backs so width down the right is not a problem at all.. especially with Andrade and Cafu getting forward that side too.

I don't see it as necessary to have explicit width down both flanks though, the best sides tend to have a favourite side down which they attack.. mine is my right side with Mezza, Didi, Matthaus, Schenllinger my switch option down the left. Plenty of ability down that side to cause problems without needing an out n out winger especially if one considers Meazza is talked about as Baggio like in terms of his dribbling.

MEAZZA...

He was a superb dribbler who despite his speed, never had a single hair out of place, and although he was not tall, was remarkably good in the air. Goals à la Meazza� has become a popular saying by Italian football fans to describe a truly inspiring goal off the dribble.

His trademark was goals were ones where he would collect the ball at the half-line, dribble through several opponents with a series of twinkle-toed shuffles, and turns, until arriving in front of the goal, faking a shot, then dribbling past a beaten goalkeeper to slot home easily. Legend has it that during the 1933 season, Meazza made a bet with Giampiero Combi, the mythic goalkeeper of Juventus and captain of the 1934 World Champion Italian National Team. Combi challenged Meazza, claiming that nobody, not even Meazza, could sidestep him to score a goal. Meazza accepted the challenge. The next game between Ambrosiana Inter and Juventus was played in the Arena di Milano and Meazza managed to score a stupendous goal. He dribbled through a series of defenders, amongst them the Italo-Argentine Luis Monti another 1934 World Champion, before faking out Combi, dribbled past him, and scored a tap-in goal. Combi immediately got up and shook Meazza's hand.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow

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Didi is not the right type of player to link his midfield and attack. Matthaus at left half is also not his optimal position. The whole midfield is skewed to adapt to Andrade who anyway will not be doing much of his b2b role with Charlton there.

Yes, it's a functional midfield... But one that does not get the best of all three players.

.

On the other hand my midfield is streamlined with players at their dominating best.
- Charlton in his WC winning role.
- Schuster in Euro 80 dominating role.

Both beefed up by Sammer doing bulk defensive work behind them.
 

FortBoyard

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Have seen next to none if those players play. I assume that is true for nearly all posters. How on earth can we judge.
 

Raees

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Have seen next to none if those players play. I assume that is true for nearly all posters. How on earth can we judge.
No worries mate is there any specific players you'd like to know more about and we could post some videos/Gifs?
 

harms

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Meazza in his 1934-38 (4 years, not 3?) peak won't provide a goalthreat that you would imagine from one of the best forwards/football players ever, he was a playmaking free-flowing attacking player at that point, not a striker, like in his early years. I also don't like that he again is used on the left and not on the right, where he played more frequently, but it's a minor issue. So, regarding that playmaking point - you have Didi, Meazza and Kopa that were mostly playmakers, and even Puskas, who again and again get's picked as a pure №9 in one-striker formations was a more creative one and I don't think that it is best to reduce his game to just finishing. Classic too many cooks dilemma, I don't think that they will be as good together as sum of the parts.
 

Moby

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Burgnich as sweeper? Picchi was the sweeper in that Grande Inter team, Burgnich's best position from the years you have chosen would be Right-Back in the Catenaccio.
 

antohan

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Meazza in his 1934-38 (4 years, not 3?) peak won't provide a goalthreat that you would imagine from one of the best forwards/football players ever, he was a playmaking free-flowing attacking player at that point, not a striker, like in his early years. I also don't like that he again is used on the left and not on the right, where he played more frequently, but it's a minor issue. So, regarding that playmaking point - you have Didi, Meazza and Kopa that were mostly playmakers, and even Puskas, who again and again get's picked as a pure №9 in one-striker formations was a more creative one and I don't think that it is best to reduce his game to just finishing. Classic too many cooks dilemma, I don't think that they will be as good together as sum of the parts.
Possibly, yes, maybe Puskas where Meazza is and a different proper out and out striker? Someone like Alberto Spencer would have been awesome with Puskas and Kopa providing the service and playing off him.

I still do think that attack is distinctly superior to the defence that is facing it. I don't think Burgnich next to Djalma was the best idea.

EAP's midfield is better balanced overall and the only real question mark there is Matthäus and Schüster having their own little megacunt contest. Will probably end up sent off, both of them, after Bernd does a Juanito.

If only Bernd gets sent off that's game over for EAP because his front three will have a harder time breaking down Raees' defence.

Very close. For all the talk about Andrade at DM, he is probably about the right man to have there supporting Cafú against Charlton and Rivelino.
 

antohan

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You haven't even included him in your write-up of peak list. I genuinely have no idea who your keeper is :lol:
And the other team has Yashin. But no, keepers clearly an afterthought in these.
 

antohan

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WTF?



CAPTION CONTEST

Oli wasn't very happy with his manager.


Kahn runs towards the empty goal already 3-0 down.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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@Annahnomoss

Can you add this to the 3 year peak spoiler please? :D

Oliver Kahn

2000-01
Best Bundesliga Keeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, ESM Team of the Year, UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match, Ballon d'Or – Third place

2001-02
Best Bundesliga Keeper, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, Ballon d'Or – Third place

2002-03
Best Bundesliga Keeper, IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, Best European Goalkeeper, UEFA Club Football Awards – Best Goalkeeper, ESM Team of the Year, FIFA World Cup Golden Ball, FIFA World Cup Yashin Award, FIFA World Cup All-Star Team, FIFA World Player of the Year – Silver award.
 

harms

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Oliver Kahn shamefully walks towards the goal fifteen minutes late, getting a friendly banter from the stands: "One too many beers last night?".

@antohan your story is a more realistic one :D
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Possibly, yes, maybe Puskas where Meazza is and a different proper out and out striker? Someone like Alberto Spencer would have been awesome with Puskas and Kopa providing the service and playing off him.

I still do think that attack is distinctly superior to the defence that is facing it. I don't think Burgnich next to Djalma was the best idea.

EAP's midfield is better balanced overall and the only real question mark there is Matthäus and Schüster having their own little megacunt contest. Will probably end up sent off, both of them, after Bernd does a Juanito.

If only Bernd gets sent off that's game over for EAP because his front three will have a harder time breaking down Raees' defence.

Very close. For all the talk about Andrade at DM, he is probably about the right man to have there supporting Cafú against Charlton and Rivelino.
The comments about Puskas are about the same I faced in last draft. He's better off with another striker al la, Di Stefano in Madrid or Kocsis for the Magyars. He certainly can do the role, but here it overlaps with Meazza occupying the inside left position.

Schuster in his favourite position against Matthaus at left half, I would give Schuster the edge here.

Andrade is the only player there who is played in perfect position, but unfortunately with Cafu next to him, he'll be doing a more defensive job than any attacking b2b runs. To me, it's again a case of total not more than sum of it's parts.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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To summarize, Raees certainly has a great set of players, but they way he has used them tactically doesn't bring the best of them.

- Meazza at Inside left occupying space that Puskas would thrive in.
- Matthaus at left half.
- Didi in a pseudo-AM role.

Not dysfunctional, but certainly not optimal either.
 

Raees

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Puskas as a centre-forward...



I think we all agree that sticking him up front as a poacher is a waste of his talents but playing him as a centre-forward where he holds the ball up, can turn and run at players especially in the context of the team mates he has here... he'll be in his element. He's used to playing alongside other great forwards and has the capacity to elevate those around him, pander to other egos yet maintain his own brilliant rate of goalscoring. He scored 508 goals in 521 games for club and 84 goals in 85 games for country, so he definitely isn't shy in front of goal. I hope the following footage convinces posters that he can easily play as a bona fide centre forward and that he can pull it off in a way which allows him to play his natural game and enjoy himself...his ability to hold up play and play off the last shoulder is not talked about much but it was top notch. Furthermore whilst Harms is right that he was more left side for Hungary, this footage demonstrates that he was equally comfortable if not more dangerous.. slightly right sided and cutting in on his left. He reminds me of a brilliant genius left footed version of Wayne Rooney in terms of how he would play as a number 9.. very well-rounded forward.





 

antohan

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@Raees, I don't think anyone disputes Puskas being able to play centreforward. It's more a case of whether you need Meazza-Puskas-Kopa. Puskas-Spencer-Kopa would be better, there's no doubt in my mind about it. Does it mean your attack is dysfunctional? No, not really.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I've just watched the Didi highlights clip. He did operate mostly in left midfield role moving the centre, but predominantly his tendency when he has the ball is to dribble to the left side. I'm not sure on how much linking he'll do with Kopa here.
 

Raees

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@Raees, I don't think anyone disputes Puskas being able to play centreforward. It's more a case of whether you need Meazza-Puskas-Kopa. Puskas-Spencer-Kopa would be better, there's no doubt in my mind about it. Does it mean your attack is dysfunctional? No, not really.
Understandable criticism, I guess the argument I am trying to put forward is that would Baggio, Del Piero and Totti be too many cooks in the kitchen despite being striker/number 10 hybrids? my answer would be yes because none of them have great goal-scoring records and in terms of directness, they're not really super direct players. Baggio could beat multiple players but he is more a creator than a finisher.

Puskas and Meazza are very direct penetrative players who also had other world class qualities which makes people forget that they were really good goal-scorers who struck fear into the heart of the opposition. Messi and Neymar for example are two players who strike the right balance between being direct and playing the beautiful game.. the fact they are superlative dribblers is at the heart of their threat in this respect and I have three very direct runners with the ball.. they're not going to be wasting time, linking up play getting in each others way and letting EAP's defence sit deep and watch me pass in front of them.. they will be trying to tear apart the opposition and be as direct as possible. I believe the side has a credible, penetrative goal threat.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Understandable criticism, I guess the argument I am trying to put forward is that would Baggio, Del Piero and Totti be too many cooks in the kitchen despite being striker/number 10 hybrids? my answer would be yes because none of them have great goal-scoring records and in terms of directness, they're not really super direct players. Baggio could beat multiple players but he is more a creator than a finisher.

Puskas and Meazza are very direct penetrative players who also had other world class qualities which makes people forget that they were really good goal-scorers who struck fear into the heart of the opposition. Messi and Neymar for example are two players who strike the right balance between being direct and playing the beautiful game.. the fact they are superlative dribblers is at the heart of their threat in this respect and I have three very direct runners with the ball.. they're not going to be wasting time, linking up play getting in each others way and letting EAP's defence sit deep and watch me pass in front of them.. they will be trying to tear apart the opposition and be as direct as possible. I believe the side has a credible, penetrative goal threat.
Tbh, Koscis is a better fit in my team than Puskas is in yours. And I would even argue that Kocsis is a better player from purely a goal scoring point of view. What makes Puskas special is his ability on ball, dribbling etc, but here you have Meazza as Inside Left and Didi who also prefers the left middle occupying nearly the same space. I think you have too many cooks operating to the left and not enough balance to support Kopa on the right. what will happen is you find Kopa drifting to the attacking middle more in the game again crowding out that area.

I personally haven't watched much of Andrade but having watched Charlton, I think think Charlton will have his chances in that match up, esp with Andrade also having to cover for Cafu's runs. Lizarazu is good enough to act as a counterpoint to Cafu moving forward. Even if he does link with Kopa, I have Forster, a fantastic man-marker there to mitigate the threat.
 

Raees

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Tbh, Koscis is a better fit in my team than Puskas is in yours. And I would even argue that Kocsis is a better player from purely a goal scoring point of view. What makes Puskas special is his ability on ball, dribbling etc, but here you have Meazza as Inside Left and Didi who also prefers the left middle occupying nearly the same space. I think you have too many cooks operating to the left and not enough balance to support Kopa on the right. what will happen is you find Kopa drifting to the attacking middle more in the game again crowding out that area.

I personally haven't watched much of Andrade but having watched Charlton, I think think Charlton will have his chances in that match up, esp with Andrade also having to cover for Cafu's runs. Lizarazu is good enough to act as a counterpoint to Cafu moving forward. Even if he does link with Kopa, I have Forster, a fantastic man-marker there to mitigate the threat.
Kocsis' goal record for Hungary is marginally better and when you consider that Puskas has more to his game and isn't reliant on service, it is not an issue. The footage above proves he is excellent as an orthodox centre forward and can play that role with aplomb.

Kopa with no support? he has Cafu and Andrade.. Cafu alone is sufficient but Andrade alongside him is an exceptionally strong right flank.


footage of a young Cafu before his peak, he is brilliant going forwards and has the skills of a winger.. he is a creative force and is a threat in his own right. Charlton will struggle to match up to the athletic prowess of Andrade in my opinion and will find his influence limited in this midfield battle in comparison to his usual ability to dictate a game.

Didi and Meazza are a good fit, Didi operates from the centre circle to outside the 25 yard area, whereas Meazza is a final third player.. how are they going to cancel each other out? it is like saying Iniesta and Neymar would step on each others toes when instead they're complementary?
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Kocsis' goal record for Hungary is marginally better and when you consider that Puskas has more to his game and isn't reliant on service, it is not an issue. The footage above proves he is excellent as an orthodox centre forward and can play that role with aplomb.

Kopa with no support? he has Cafu and Andrade.. Cafu alone is sufficient but Andrade alongside him is an exceptionally strong right flank.
My point being you need a Kocsis type player there more than you need a Puskas.

Secondly, Andrade has Rivellino behind Charlton ahead of him. And he has to cover for Cafu and his runs. I still believe I have superiority there. Both my players are masters at exploiting spaces and Andrade would be hard pressed there.
Jairzinho is a goals scoring machine on his own. A goal in every game of the WC, 7 in total is incredible for a winger. And not forgetting Schuster, who was incredible in that role during his peak. Facing Matthaus at left half, he will definitely take the lead there too.

Purely by goal threat, I would argue I have a comfortable edge over your team.
 

Raees

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My point being you need a Kocsis type player there more than you need a Puskas.

Secondly, Andrade has Rivellino behind Charlton ahead of him. And he has to cover for Cafu and his runs. I still believe I have superiority there. Both my players are masters at exploiting spaces and Andrade would be hard pressed there.
Jairzinho is a goals scoring machine on his own. A goal in every game of the WC, 7 in total is incredible for a winger. And not forgetting Schuster, who was incredible in that role during his peak. Facing Matthaus at left half, he will definitely take the lead there too.

Purely by goal threat, I would argue I have a comfortable edge over your team.
Schuster as good as he was is not superior to Matthaus regardless of if Matthaus is operating slightly deeper. Personally I think Matthaus was better when he was slightly deeper as he could then win the ball and drive at the opposition, he was not an elegant playmaker type who needed freedom to roam to enjoy himself, yes he operated best as a B2B but he would do whatever it took to win the game.

Jairzinho has met his match here in Schnellinger, who is defensively one of the best full backs of all time..he is Maldini-esque in terms of his ability to read play, and is really well equipped to take on a goal-scoring wide threat. Cafu v Rivelino is another great battle but I do not think Rivelino has the pace to hurt Cafu here..

Going forwards how would Lizarazu and Charlton handle Cafu, Andrade and Kopa operating down that side? I do not think you have explained that thus far.. the athleticism and quality I have down that side is very hard to keep quiet.

Kohler kept Van Basten quiet, I am sure he can keep Kocsis quiet.. another battle which I believe I win.
 

Balu

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I think both Kocsis and Puskas can play a variety of attacking roles and it doesn't matter all that much if you play them as more creative free roaming 2nd strikers or upfront, they're simply fantastic. In a more restricted draft, I'd be more critical regarding Puskas' best position. But in an unrestricted alltime draft, he's a great player to have because he doesn't look out of place even if played in his 2nd best role. Puskas was overall that little bit better and already the star and leader at Honved, when Kocsis joined. Therefore he was the one who got the role of the player with more freedom. If we look at their time in Spain, it was Puskas who played as the center forward at Real and Kocsis at Barca was the one who played deeper, almost like a number 10. Why? Because that's what was best for their clubs at this point (age and weight contributed a bit as well of course, but the point still works in my opinion).

That being said, I think the 3 year peak thing becomes a bit interesting here. Does the 3 year peak need to reflect the role you want them to play in your team? Puskas upfront is in my opinion either the young version at Honved before Kocsis joined the club, something like 47-50 or the older Real Madrid version, 58-62. They're the better fit for your team than the 52-55 version @Raees , even though you don't get his peak. Or to use your Messi, Neymar, Suarez comparison: I have the impression that Suarez playing less as an allround forward, dropping deep a lot like he did for Liverpool, but more like a real (still mobile) number 9 made a huge difference for Barca and is essential for those 3 to excel together. It wouldn't work with the Liverpool version of him.

How litterally are we supposed to take that peak thing anyway and how much freedom to interpret the roles do the managers have? @Annahnomoss
 

Raees

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I am happy to change my peak to reflect the positional points you made @Balu
 

Balu

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I am happy to change my peak to reflect the positional points you made @Balu
You don't need to do it for me, I know how well he played upfront and I'm not really a fan of this 3 year peak thing anyway ;). I like it easy, the less complicate the better. But it's not my draft.
 

Annahnomoss

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How litterally are we supposed to take that peak thing anyway and how much freedom to interpret the roles do the managers have? @Annahnomoss
The idea is that the manager needs to argue his case with only the use of evidence from these three consecutive years. I.e you can't pick Ibrahimovic and use all the dribbling footage from his younger years if you've decided to use his PSG peak.

You are free to change the peak years at any time, even during matches if you want though. But it will be notified as a tactical change/substitution.
 
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