Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[crossy1686]

Don’t disagree with you on the stock. I’m sure the institutional investors aren’t particularly pleased. Doesn’t mean they don’t want performance going forward.

‘Not making the CL on a regular basis DOES impact the marketing side, this has been well documented. Team Viewer pays £17m less per year than Chevrolet. If you are a sponsor, would you rather see your logo on CL match days or Europa?

It’s not unusual for fans to look at the club through a narrow football lens, but it makes for naive analysis and crap theories.

By the way, the Rangnites seem to have this theory that this was all some sort of grand plan by the Glazers…. Given their actions and decisions post Fergie, why on earth would you think the “brilliant” Glazers are masterminding a club transformation? Those guys look like they can hardly tie their shoes by themselves…

Yeah I definitely wouldn't go that far. I think the aim was to get the top 4 with what we have while Murtough restructured things for the arrival of the next permanent manager. Due to how shit things have gone this season though we're also looking at quite a squad rebuild also.

 

[glazed]

Imagination and distortion of reality.

Any idiot can see that the club prioritised long term planning over short term success after Ole went. The club's action are self explanatory.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Any idiot can see that the club prioritised long term planning over short term success after Ole went. The club's action are self explanatory.

Rangnick literally said the club hired him because they were conceding too many goals. What you mean by "self-explanatory" is really "an explanation that goes against every statement made by everyone involved."

 

[Submarine Chief]

Rangnick literally said the club hired him because they were conceding too many goals. What you mean by "self-explanatory" is really "an explanation that goes against every statement made by everyone involved."

Is there a point where he said that was the sole reason for hiring him?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

There is no point where he ever said he was hired to introduce pressing as part of a long-term plan. He has always talked about short-term goals with regards to his interim role.

 

[TheReligion]

I fear it will be much of the same next season.

Fans expect too much from a coaching team thrown together last minute. Ralf came alone and had to pick up the pieces.

ETH will be working with a lot of the same pieces next season.

The same as last night? that won’t be that bad for starters

 

[Anustart89]

There is no point where he ever said he was hired to introduce pressing as part of a long-term plan. He has always talked about short-term goals with regards to his interim role.

If the appointment was only short-term oriented, why was the consultancy agreed at the same time as his interim job? I mean if the club really were looking for short-term results they would and should've gone with Conte. They didn't. Instead, they got a guy on an interim job and promised him a salary for the upcoming two years regardless of how he performed in the interim role. That doesn't really make sense if you're just looking at a guy to get top 4. Plus, if the leaks are to be believed, Conte's style wasn't deemed suitable for this group of players, so why would a pressing-oriented coach be suitable to implement his style without a pre-season and without the authority to even sign a single player?

 

[Beans]

He couldn't figure out the puzzle of how to get the best out of this squad, though I'm not sure anyone could, especially with the injuries and no buys in winter window.

Our players clearly had no ability to play the kind of football he prefers and specializes in, so you'd have to say it wasn't a great choice. We could have had him as an advisor or administrator without giving him the intern job. I think the board over-estimated our squad, that they could play high energy pressing football.

I'm excited just as I have been from the beginning in him helping rebuild the club, I don't see anyone better out there. Recruiting is exactly where he's needed most, he's had 4 months to reset the club's foundation and it should be changed at this point. The scouts are gone, we've upgraded nutrition, brought in a better new medical team (Ralf has said the injury issues aren't on the medical team, if they were I think he'd say so), brought in a sports psychologist and tried to change training and the team, which seems to have not worked. We all realize most of these players need to go, so I'm not too bothered that he couldn't get them to play top 4 football. I don't think anyone could have, again especially with these injured and of course the legal issues.

 

[Submarine Chief]

Our players clearly had no ability to play the kind of football he prefers and specializes in, so you'd have to say it wasn't a great choice. We could have had him as an advisor or administrator without giving him the intern job. I think the board over-estimated our squad, that they could play high energy pressing football.

Is it me or does it seem that no one really knew what kind of football our players preferred?

 

[glazed]

There is no point where he ever said he was hired to introduce pressing as part of a long-term plan. He has always talked about short-term goals with regards to his interim role.

It kind of goes without saying that the godfather of gegenpress was hired to gegenpress. He certainly said that's what he was planning to do.

And then a certain kind of fan got all salty because we didn't then turn into Tuchel Chelsea within two weeks. It was never going to be like that. We don't have the right players, as we all knew.

 

[Leftback99]

It kind of goes without saying that the godfather of gegenpress was hired to gegenpress. He certainly said that's what he was planning to do.

And then a certain kind of fan got all salty because we didn't then turn into Tuchel Chelsea within two weeks. It was never going to be like that. We don't have the right players, as we all knew.

So everyone knew that we didn't have the right players for this masterplan by the board but we did it anyway?

 

[RedPed]

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[Iker Quesadillas]

If the appointment was only short-term oriented, why was the consultancy agreed at the same time as his interim job?

This has been discussed many times in this thread. Rangnick was the one who sought out the consultancy; the club originally just wanted an interim manager.

 

[Anustart89]

This has been discussed many times in this thread. Rangnick was the one who sought out the consultancy; the club originally just wanted an interim manager.

And if the club wasn't interested in that they could've told him to feck off, yeah? Or did they have to hire him on those premises?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It kind of goes without saying that the godfather of gegenpress was hired to gegenpress.

It does not go without saying.
Your argument is that Ralf was hired to do something that can't be done in six months but was given a six month contract to do it. Nonsensical stuff.
Top clubs don't hire "transitional managers" like this.

 

[Beans]

Is it me or does it seem that no one really knew what kind of football our players preferred?

You would have said counter attacking at the beginning of the season, but they couldn't do that either at the end of Ole's tenure.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

And if the club wasn't interested in that they could've told him to feck off, yeah? Or did they have to hire him on those premises?

He claims he rejected managing Chelsea because it was "just" an interim position. So yes, the club would have had to hire him on those premises.

 

[glazed]

So everyone knew that we didn't have the right players for this masterplan by the board but we did it anyway?

Yes. Because it's going to take two years minimum. Probably three. It's a long term project. The club structure needs a root and branch overhaul. If you've missed that then you haven't been paying attention.

It does not go without saying.
Your argument is that Ralf was hired to do something that can't be done in six months but was given a six month contract to do it. Nonsensical stuff.

Hence interim manager. ETH also plays high press. As does the other manager who was considered, Poch.

Why is this so hard to understand? The decision was made to transition to high press football. Ralf began the process. ETH will continue it. It's not exactly a secret, except apparently from you two.

 

[Leftback99]

Yes. Because it's going to take two years minimum. Probably three. It's a long term project. The club structure needs a root and branch overhaul. If you've missed that then you haven't been paying attention.



Hence interim manager. ETH also plays high press. As does the other manager who was considered, Poch.

Why is this so hard to understand? The decision was made to transition to high press football. Ralf began the process. ETH will continue it. It's not exactly a secret, except apparently from you two.

We abandoned it after a week. So it was totally irrelevant whether the board had your imaginary plan to prioritise pressing over points.

I'm sure there must be an elaborate joke going on in this thread.

 

[Anustart89]

He claims he rejected managing Chelsea because it was "just" an interim position. So yes, the club would have had to hire him on those premises.

You're missing the point. It's obvious (to quote Ralf) that if they wanted him as the interim manager, they would have to give him the consultancy too. But they seemed happy enough to do that with a medium to long-term cooperation in mind. If they only wanted him as an interim and to assess after the season depending on his performances as interim manager, they could've gone with someone else, right? It's not like he was literally the only option they had as interim manager and had to take him on his premises.

There's enough out there on Murtough's admiration for his previous work to suggest that they were happy to have him available for the longer term, regardless of his performances in the interim role, which suggests that the interim manager role wasn't the only reason for going for him in particular, especially since he would come with an additional two years on the payroll.

 

[glazed]

We abandoned it after a week. So it was totally irrelevant whether the board had your imaginary plan to prioritise pressing over points.

I'm sure there must be an elaborate joke going on in this thread.

Yes because the players just proved astonishingly inept and unwilling at it even compared to expectations. You can be 100% sure ETH will be doing high press next season but minus a good few of the players who have now been exposed as unable or unwilling to play that system. That exposure is what Ralf achieved. Of course Ralf knows no other way to play so once high press failed so quickly, he was never going to make top four.

I don't understand how you can claim to follow Manchester United and not know this stuff.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Yes because the players just proved astonishingly inept and unwilling at it even compared to expectations. You can be 100% sure ETH will be doing high press next season but minus a good few of the players who have now been exposed as unable or unwilling to play that system. That exposure is what Ralf achieved. Of course Ralf knows no other way to play so once high press failed so quickly, he was never going to make top four.

I don't understand how you can claim to follow Manchester United and not know this stuff.

Interesting. Which players exactly are those that have been exposed? Do we know? Or have they only exposed internally?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Why is this so hard to understand? The decision was made to transition to high press football. Ralf began the process. ETH will continue it. It's not exactly a secret, except apparently from you two.

There is nothing hard to understand about it; it simply isn't true. You made it up.

 

[city-puma]

Distortion of reality is an illness, sadly.

 

[stevoc]

I think it's a caf myth but the way Ralf speaks suggest he was of the understanding his job was to be a consultant, audit the club and fill the void until a manager comes in. So I can understand why people feel it's a likely scenario.

Yeah I agree Ralf speaks that way though because he's spent most the last 10 years working as a director, so it's only natural he would look at things from that perspective especially when he knows he was going to be a consultant for the club.

When they decided to shop for an interim and not buy any players in January, while allowing Ralf to send a bunch out on loan, it was pretty clear the club had decided this season was the time to reboot.

I mean I get what you're saying but that still sounds like the club decided the season was a write off and they weren't worried about top 4. But as I said I can't envisage any scenario where the Glazers wouldn't make CL football the priority, post Fergie it's clear that's all that matters to them.

 

[stevoc]

If the appointment was only short-term oriented, why was the consultancy agreed at the same time as his interim job? I mean if the club really were looking for short-term results they would and should've gone with Conte. They didn't. Instead, they got a guy on an interim job and promised him a salary for the upcoming two years regardless of how he performed in the interim role. That doesn't really make sense if you're just looking at a guy to get top 4. Plus, if the leaks are to be believed, Conte's style wasn't deemed suitable for this group of players, so why would a pressing-oriented coach be suitable to implement his style without a pre-season and without the authority to even sign a single player?

Because to take the Interim job Rangnick had to leave a 3 year contract in Russia. The 2 year consultancy job which he reasonably requested and the club agreed to was obviously to replace the contract until 2024 that he had with Lokomotiv.

 

[stevoc]

It's really simple even for a top red to understand. You convert to high press mid season with a bunch of obviously unsuitable players, you are not going to do that great. It's screamingly obvious. They brought in Ralf to start a transition process that they knew could no longer be postponed. Of course they might have hoped for top four. But there's no reason to think they could reasonably expected it.

Like I say - if top four is your priority, you make Carrick acting manager and get the popularity bounce. That's not what they did. It was a clear 'no more business as usual' moment. Had the board not done that, they would have completely lost credibility.

Yeah it sounds simple alright.

So what do you personally think matters more to the Glazers (you know the people who own the club and make the decisions) CL football next season (and the increased revenue and potentially larger commercial deals that come with it) or this supposed transition to pressing football?

And again has there been any quotes from Ralf or anyone at the club that confirms your theory?

Because there's lots of quotes from Ralf that don't seem to fit with the idea that he was brought solely to implement a change in football and the results weren't a priority.

 

[jem]

One thing that has irked me with his appointment is the need to exaggerate how bad we were under Ole to minimize his failure. Make no mistake about it, we never looked as bad as we do now under Ole.

Under Ole, our counter attacks worked. Basic play was never an issue with Ole, except in big games. Our issue with ordinary games was that we straggled in breaking teams down. Specific to this season and the beginning of last season, we also had defensive leaks due to poor defensive preparation - a key sign that Ole was not good enough to be a United manager. However, we could move the ball and pass like any normal team.

Under Rangnick we look legitimately terrible. Our moves break down easily and in truth never truly connect. There is hardly any real movement on the ball. It almost feels like the team's entire aim is to win the ball back occasionally with a press and then keep the middle tight to prevent counters. There is no connectivity on the flanks, no real link up through the middle, no space for Bruno to get on the ball and no support for Ronaldo. Our team with Rangnick is completely disjointed in a way it never was with Ole, even against Watford. Our defensive issues from earlier on in the season ( which were our true problem at the start) were never fixed, unfortunately any semblance of attacking impetus seemed to have gone with Ole as well. None of our players look good under Rangnick outside the all time brilliance of Ronaldo. That speaks volumes.

This could be for a multitude of reasons of course, but fans should not lie and act like this is what Ole served up for 3 years, that would simply be a lie. Its actually worse football than 2016 LVG, and that's saying something

Clearly you didn't watch the last month under Ole, or else you're seeing what you want to see.

 

[roonster09]

You convert to high press mid season with a bunch of obviously unsuitable players, you are not going to do that great. It's screamingly obvious. They brought in Ralf to start a transition process that they knew could no longer be postponed.

What does this mean? So players are trained on high press but we are not playing that on matchday?

Because what we see on the pitch is anything but high press. How is the process started especially the on pitch one.

 

[VidaRed]

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[Tiber]

You can tell Rangnick knows how small his role will be. No way he would spill so much to the media if he actually thought he would play a role going forwards.

 

[crossy1686]

You can tell Rangnick knows how small his role will be. No way he would spill so much to the media if he actually thought he would play a role going forwards.

True. You only have to look at what happens when you keep your mouth shut and tow the line like Ole did. He’s got nothing to lose by speaking to the press, I would hope it continues when Ten Hag gets here from either one of them

 

[UnitedSofa]

You can tell Rangnick knows how small his role will be. No way he would spill so much to the media if he actually thought he would play a role going forwards.

....great talk there mystic meg! What's the lottery numbers this week?

 

[Loon]

You can tell Rangnick knows how small his role will be. No way he would spill so much to the media if he actually thought he would play a role going forwards.

Yet, because he has no role going forward, and is still in the employ employ of United, he can say exactly what he wants week after week after week?

 

[RedPed]

I guarantee you once he has briefed the board at the end of the season, his phone will ring less and less. I'll even put money that Wreck-It and United go their separate ways before the first year is over.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Yet, because he has no role going forward, and is still in the employ employ of United, he can say exactly what he wants week after week after week?

He is not employed by United, he is on a consultancy contract. These types of contracts are paid hourly or per project, but you're not an employee of the organization.

He can say whatever the feck he wants and when he wants, as long as this is not regulated via the contract. Also, of course his role is minimal. He will be paid to consult, be it on new players, processes, organization, etc. The club can still choose not to follow his advice.

 

[Loon]

He is not employed by United, he is on a consultancy contract. These types of contracts are paid hourly or per project, but you're not an employee of the organization.

He can say whatever the feck he wants and when he wants, as long as this is not regulated via the contract. Also, of course his role is minimal. He will be paid to consult, be it on new players, processes, organization, etc. The club can still choose not to follow his advice.

Of course it's regulated in his contract, consultancy or not. He is being paid by the organisation that own United. You seriously think United employed him under the proviso he can publicly say whatever the feck he wants whenever he wants?

 

[UpWithRivers]

Sounds like every suggestion he has made has been thrown back in his face and they have got the media to go in on him. So now he has a limited role - ok how about out help you a bit with recruitment and lets not say we fired you. This way they get to keep all those fking arses that have downed tools and have a 'soft reset'. i.e pretend that its changing but really no one has the balls to sack big players.

 

[Shark]

Under Ole, our counter attacks worked. Basic play was never an issue with Ole, except in big games. Our issue with ordinary games was that we straggled in breaking teams down. Specific to this season and the beginning of last season, we also had defensive leaks due to poor defensive preparation - a key sign that Ole was not good enough to be a United manager. However, we could move the ball and pass like any normal team.

Total hogwash. Our general play was terrible under Ole even during the "good spells". What we're seeing now is just a continuation of that inconsistent passing. I advise you to watch some games back and see if we moved the ball and passed like a normal team.

 

[glazed]

Yeah it sounds simple alright.

So what do you personally think matters more to the Glazers (you know the people who own the club and make the decisions) CL football next season (and the increased revenue and potentially larger commercial deals that come with it) or this supposed transition to pressing football?

I think the restructure is more important to them. The Glazers will be aware that top four is very much more difficult to achieve when there are four top other clubs playing high press well, because they will churn out results. In that scenario we are virtually guaranteed to finish lower than City, Liverpool, Chelsea, and soon, Arsenal. So the Glazer long term business model is screwed. And that's more important than one season.

What does this mean? So players are trained on high press but we are not playing that on matchday?
Because what we see on the pitch is anything but high press. How is the process started especially the on pitch one.

It means that we will take a long time to master this playing style and several of our current squad will not be part of that. It's a messy process but it has to play out.