Completely wrong. Most interims dont have to deal with a dressing room as toxic as ours. Atleast other toxic dressing rooms have quality players unlike ours who are all talk and no show.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Yes they were considered but as I said, he had an influence over the board when they went ahead with ETH. Re. coaching staff, there are numerous reports that he wanted Carrick and McKenna to stay but they had made up their minds. So that leaves him with what choices? Go out there and scout coaches mid-season or appoint coaches he has worked with? What would you have done?
There are plenty of reports that said we had asked Carrick to stay but ok. One thing I am sure off is that the club wouldn't be in any similar state had Ralf taken over after Mourinho. Given your CAF name I won't slate Ole but let's just say things didn't go to plan.
virtually every mid season appointment has similar conditions but they somehow get a tune out of things. Where were Chelsea under Lamps? where did they finish under Tuchel?
Wrong example.
Tuchel was appointed as a permanent manager? The utd squad didn't really want to play for an interim manager with a makeshift coaching team. Tuchel also had his staff ready to join him at Chelsea.
How about we talk about Arsenal under Ljungberg? Or Chelsea under Di Matteo or Benitez (they were horrible in the league).
EDIT: Guus Hiddink and not Benitez.
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Why is it mental. The club has shown time and time again that top 4 is pretty much their main focus. Ole was given time, money and and extension despite showing little to no signs of being a manager that could compete with the likes of Liverpool and City.
If we had got top 4 and RR hadn't been so public about our mess then I think Poch would be coming in this summer and it would largely be business as usual. Few players in, don't rock the boat, rinse and repeat in a few years.
You're thinking of the top 4 result in isolation rather than the broader implications and impact. In isolation top 4 is great. Who wouldn't want CL, more money and being a more attractive proposition to players. If that top 4 result means that you don't do the proper rebuild that you need to do with the right manager then its not good.
Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you have the will to build yourself backup.
Who knows honestly. Its all whataboutism. Maybe we appoint a different interim, get top 4, the massive clear out still happens, ETH still happens and everything is great. Who knows. I think its far more likely if that happened we would have hired Poch, told him to work with what he has got, bought a couple more "star players" and still had the same rotten core to the squad.
Benetez and Di Matteo both one silverware and made the CL. Benitez came 3rd. this fraud knock us out in every comp at the first time of asking. How many games did he even win?
Tuchel is an top tier manager, could bring in his people because he was without a job and Chelsea (as far as I know) have never had a mentality issue in their squad. Their issues were tactical and coaching. Tuchel came in, tweaked some stuff and their team was up and running again. Oh and he wasn't an interim.
RR is not a top tier manager, had to hastily assemble some coaches and was parachuted into an unfit, unmotivated and toxic dressing room. I think even the likes of Conte would have struggled. I think Conte would have got us top 4 but we would then have been kicking the can down the road for another 2-3 years until he got sick of it and left.
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I don't think Ralf has managed to achieve success in any part of his job with us. However, he was hamstrung.
Interim manager only, Limited in what coaches are willing to move with him under that arrangement. No Recruitment, toxic players remaining. this all has an effect on what he can achieve with a group of players. not saying he didn't make mistakes!, personally thought his game management was poor..
Tuchel came in on a full term contract, had a ready made squad, i don't think the comparison is fair
“The club has shown top 4 is the aim” isn’t true at all. We finished 2nd in Ole’s final season and then spent big in the next window. And there’s no evidence that Ralf is the one who got us ETH. The earliest reports indicated he was on our shortlist and Ralf said many times that the club hadn’t asked for him opinion, right around the time ETH was being interviewed (and I doubt he was lying because he’s been pretty open about everything in press conferences during his entire time here.)
I had mistaken Benitez. I meant Guus Hiddink in 2015-16 when Chelsea finished 10th.
Again, the interims that I have mentioned also had a similar performance so your statement singling out RR is not fair.
I mean, you are almost guaranteed to be completely wrong here.
Definitely gone:
Cavani
Pogba
Mata
Lingard
Matic
Almost certainly gone in next 2 years:
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Henderson
Bailly
Jones
Periera
Most of them will be gone this summer. Thats ignoring the players that will be sold because they are not up to scratch.
He will probably sign a maximum of 5 players this summer and have to use some of the youth players to plug the gaps.
So your whole list falls apart and boils down to the players being Toxic?
And of course Toxicity within a squad of footballers being an intangible element that can't actually be quantified. Not many United fans thought it was a toxic squad a year ago. What changed?
So we have no quality players now?
Ralf has did a real gaslighting number on some on here.
We spend big most summers. Arguably this last summer was just "right place right time". Ronaldo was on the move and Varane was available. We had been after Sancho for a while. I'm not suggesting that the club spend only to maintain top 4 but that is their overriding priority and they are happy with top 4. Sponsorship deals are dependent on it and being in the CL is good for revenue and standing in the game.
If we truly cared about winning the league or CL we would have been far more focussed on building a structure to allow that to happen. You would have to be mad to think that anything United have had in place over the past 8 or more years is close to competing against the well run, well funded and well managed teams around us.
The squad won't need ripping up. Many of these players are much better than they have shown this season and will be much better under Ten Hag. The only player Ole signed who I think will struggle is AWB but even he isn't a terrible player as is made out. Ole delivered some brilliant moments under his tenure and I enjoyed the majority of it bar the collapse at the end, but that can happen to anyone. The biggest disappointment under Ole was the Europa League final but that's very fine margins and hard to pin on him really. Ragnick just had to come in and lift the players again and implement some new ideas, he's completely failed to manage that and instead taken us backwards. I think ETH will massively show him up next season when he gets many of these same players performing.
Rangnick has done the club a world class service in laying bare the truth and exposing the turds occupying the dressing room.
Sure he's not delivered top 4 but he's insured that the turd cycle doesn't perpetuate like it has been for years. I highly doubt we would have gotten ten hag if we didn't get rangnick first.
All hail lord rangnick as far as im concerned!
Sure he's not delivered top 4 but he's insured that the turd cycle doesn't perpetuate like it has been for years. I highly doubt we would have gotten ten hag if we didn't get rangnick first.
All hail lord rangnick as far as im concerned!
Plenty of people have said the team is full of snakes for years. Managers have suggested it, leaks have come out about it. The difference is that once results start to turn sour, those sort of characters turn into right cnuts.
What about Hiddink in 2008-09 as Chelsea Interim?
Nearly all managers including the top ones end up failing in that manner. Look at Klopp in his last season at Dortmund, it ended in disaster. I don't think that's actually a fair reflection on most managers' abilities and if you get the next appointment right then it shouldn't have any lasting damage on the squad. If we had got in a quality manager after Ole who had improved the team then his work would look much better. I firmly believe ETH will show that Ragnick has been extremely poor on the management side of things.
Yes because its an easy selling point by the media. Utd fans lap it up every time rather than look at the real culprits - see Mourinho's spell for evidence!
I just pointed out one of the points from my list and yes, you're wrong. Basically you're saying that all other interim appointments were a lot more successful than this which couldn't be far from truth.
As I gave examples above - Hiddink, Ljungberg, Solari are some of the disastrous interim appointments out there for everyone to see. Maybe check out Dortmund's performances after Favre. I pick these examples because the situation match with utd's. You don't have to bring Tuchel into the argument because that was a different case.
And sorry to break it to you but if you believe that players like Maguire, Telles, Dalot, McFred are quality, even after watching them fail spectacularly against the best of sides, its not RR who did a gaslighting number.
By current squad I meant the squad that Ten Hag will start the season with. I wasn't thinking about players who are on the verge of leaving due to their contracts running out. Poorly worded on my part.
Maguire and Fred are quality players.
Are you deliberately trying to look stupid or what? Basically you wanna pick a bunch of successful interim appointments and bash RR against them. Why not consider all the interim appointments from whichever decade suiting your agenda and see a general trend which I am pretty sure would say that interim is not a successful tenure?
Yeah some sure but not the majority of fans. Only last season and the one before there was plenty of talk on here of this being the most likeable squad post SAF.
Yeah, definitely. The standards are pretty high in here.
One of the best CBs at the last two international tournaments built on some good club form. A Brazilian international who has put in MOTM displays in some massive Utd games whilst playing in a crap team with zero structure for the most part. Both are undeniably quality players.
International tournaments is a grand total of 5-7 games and often are misleading. Joe Allen was in the team of the tournament during Euros 2016. He was sold to Stoke the same summer. Just an example.
I would struggle to give Ole less than a 5 for his tenure. He met reasonable expectations in both his full league campaigns and continually got us to the latter stages of the cups. This season fell apart but overall I think id have to say he did a reasonable job.
Rangnick on the other hand has been poor. He’s utterly failed to pull the squad together or implement any style of play. The squad looks lost and confused and that has to fall on the manager. Look at what Eddie Howe has managed to do with a vastly inferior Newcastle squad, who looked completely shot when he took over, in comparison. 2/10 in my view.
Agreed. If the current season of crap is the price we must pay for the club to have a proper restart and start a proper rebuild, I am more than happy to accept it. And I will always be thankful to Rangnick for starting this.
Oh in which case I 100% agree. I think that plenty of these players are salvageable, if to no more than squad players. The issue then is just having squad players on £150k/week.
I can see us starting next season with the following players in or around the first XI.
Ronaldo
Sancho
Bruno
Fred
Maguire
Varane
Shaw
DDG
If we manage to pull our fingers out for one last game this season we will be in the EL and we should be looking to win that IMO. Not bad if we don't but we should look for a very good run. The squad isn't devoid of quality, its just got some gaping holes and needs to be coached.
That's not what I said at all and it's genuinely strange you've even come to that conclusion. My point was that all Interim managers walk into bad situations, of course they do or the last manager wouldn't have been sacked otherwise. But plenty of them (not all) have managed to turn teams around and achieve some level success. Look at Chelsea Hiddink, Benitez and Di Matteo all managed to even win trophies as Interim managers.
And the truth is Ralf wouldn't have even needed to do that this season for his tenure to have ben considered a success. Picking up dressing room morale, getting the team back on track performance and results wise and coming 4th would have been seen as a job well done. But morale is in the shitter, performances and results have gotten worse as the season has went on and at this stage we'd do well to even qualify for the EL.
Not all Ralf's fault of course, probably not even majorly his fault but on the same token you can't absolve him of all responsibility like he's the first Interim manager that's ever taken over a team in a bad spot.
What about Ronaldo, Shaw, Sancho, Varane, Fernandes, DeGea, Rashford, Cavani etc?
So just to clarify do you actually think we have no quality players?
Yep bang on.
Doesn't take much for some of you Ralf fans to get nasty in here does it?
Er, no. But you were basically doing the opposite if you hadn't realized.
I'm not actually bashing Ralf. I'm arguing against this idea that Ralf couldn't possibly have had any measure of success during his time as United manager because he took over a team in a bad spot.
Yep definitely mate the majority of them have looked much worse than they actually are under Solskjaer/Rangnick this season. And yeah all our transfers should be looking at plugging gaps in the first team and plenty of these players can be useful squad players over the next few years. Some like AWB will probably have to leave because his style probably isn't compatible with ETH's. But you would hope that Erik can succeed where Ole and Ralf failed this season and get a tune out of most of them.
"Sure he's not delivered anything resembling a competent performance, but he's said in public what was fecking obvious to anyone with common sense, so he's done well" 
Of course being an interim Ralf was never going to have the luxury of moulding the squad to his way of thinking which is a distinct advantage ETH is going to have from the off.
When Ralf first came in there was obviously a toxic atmosphere surrounding the club. We can all guess where it was coming from but hopefully with the players leaving the majority of that atmosphere will dissapear with them. I'm not making excuses for RR but there's no denying he had a bad deal right from the off which was compounded when the players didn't buy into his philosophy and basically downed tools from the off.
Maybe by getting rid of 5 or 6 players who've been around the first team for too long and bringing in 3 or 4 of his own type of player we'll hit the ground running next season and ETH will be the new hero which obviously I'll be 100% behind but I honestly do believe that if ETH had of came instead of Ralf we wouldn't be much better off than we are now. Our players seem adverse to the hard work needed at a top club and it wouldn't of surprised me in the slightest if they didn't buy into his philosophy either. Luckily for him there's a mass clear out coming up which should give him half a chance before the supporters turn on him like they did with Ralf. Perspective seems to be thrown right out the window where he's concerned.
That's not necessary just because you disagree with someone.
Yep, apparently covering his arse is enough for some people to think he's done a good job despite the performances being terrible. The first couple of months the excuse was that we weren't getting results but the xG was good so it would come together, despite those were games against the worst teams in the league, and when that shockingly didn't come together then suddenly he was never brought into get results but to expose the dressing room despite no interim ever before having been brought in to torch the dressing room."Sure he's not delivered anything resembling a competent performance, but he's said in public what was fecking obvious to anyone with common sense, so he's done well"
Given how limited his role looks to be moving forward it has to be considered a terrible appointment albeit it's obviously not all his fault given the quality and effort level of some of these players, hopefully Murtough and Fletcher are more successful with their 2nd big decision (Ten Hag).
I get what you are saying but I don't hear any spurs supporters complaining about being bored at present.
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