Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[haru krentz]

Don't think Ralf could do all the pressing himself, I am sure he explained the theory.

Probably showed the players video clips of Liverpool and City and maybe even Chelsea, that's how to do it lads!
or
Perhaps he spoke to them in German, and something got lost in the translation?
or
perhaps our players were just not interested and didn't give a sh**.

I know which of the above I believe to be true!

Or his phone lines connection to moscow was cut?? I think this is the most likely reason.

From his time here its easy to see he has no respect for people and is a self serving control freak.

The answer to the question of why he was in a middle of the road club in Russia is because that's the only club willing to give him the level of power he wanted. From day one when he joined us, he always spoke out of turn and had so much to say about other people's jobs. People on here and fans online like it because they view things through a Ralf vs the players/board lense but objectively speaking he's an unpleasant man.

Yeah damning words from Paolo Maldini regarding rangnick and it was from 2 years ago so nobody can accuse him of kicking somebody when hes down.

 

[Conor]

What about Maldini?

Did you read the article? An absolute nothing story if I've ever read one.

 

[B. Munich]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Did you read the article? An absolute nothing story if I've ever read one.

True could be nothing, but he almost got a job there before ending up here so its interesting to hear from another club's board.

What about Sam Pilger?!

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[roonster09]

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.

You shouldn't, one is a retired manager who barely had many manager job in last decade, other one is upcoming coach who had successful stint at 2 previous clubs.

 

[Conor]

True could be nothing, but he almost got a job there before ending up here so its interesting to hear from another club's board.

What about Sam Pilger?!

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Are you just going to keep linking me random articles, because I made some comment about a journalist that has been weirdly obsessed with slating Rangnick for ages? Have I said Rangnick wasn't crap anywhere? Are you Michael Cox?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Did you read the article? An absolute nothing story if I've ever read one.

Exactly. Maldini using his legend status to make sure he wasn't put out of a job which was suggested he would of been if Ralf had of got the gig.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Are you just going to keep linking me random articles, because I made some comment about a journalist that has been weirdly obsessed with slating Rangnick for ages? Have I said Rangnick wasn't crap anywhere? Are you Michael Cox?

He isn't the only one. I don't even know who Cox is until some of you started latching on to him. Lots of journos were waiting until the season was over before publishing their criticism, we;ll start to see more articles like this.

 

[B. Munich]

You shouldn't, one is a retired manager who barely had many manager job in last decade, other one is upcoming coach who had successful stint at 2 previous clubs.

Rangnick coached RB Leipzig to the 3rd place in the Bundesliga and the cup final in 2019.
So it's not like he was retired for many years.
Heynckes came out of retirement twice, and even win the treble.

But just disregard Rangnick. He failed already. I'm just curious why so many here are so sure ETH will succeed as it comparing both managers, I can't see many reasons and qualities why ETH would be successful.

 

[roonster09]

Rangnick coached RB Leipzig to the 3rd place in the Bundesliga and the cup final in 2019.
So it's not like he was retired for many years.
Heynckes came out of retirement twice, and even win the treble.

But just disregard Rangnick. He failed already. I'm just curious why so many here are so sure ETH will succeed as it comparing both managers, I can't see many reasons and qualities why ETH would be successful.

I just gave you reason why.

Who do you think had better chance to succeed at Bayern, Nagelsmann or Rangnick?

 

[Conor]

He isn't the only one. I don't even know who Cox is until some of you started latching on to him. Lots of journos were waiting until the season was over before publishing their criticism, we;ll start to see more articles like this.

So you didn't even know who the person I was talking about was, yet you decided to quote me and comment on my joke about him. Cheers.

 

[DevilRed]

Quite enjoyed his comparison to Big Sam at Bolton.

Even when Rangnick was first mentioned and the hype started to build, I remember wondering why supposedly this top class manager was working in obscurity as a director of football at a mid table Russian club. Even when results were shit he was somehow praised for his work.

Everybody with half decent knowledge about football questioned why this guy was appointed as our manager.

Someone who hasn't managed full time in a DECADE, suddenly takes the biggest job in football?

I can understand that it had to be down hastily and not many would take the job for 6 months, knowing there is nothing after.

But we could have still done better. Far better.

Top four should have been easy as long as the manager could just put together a functioning team and placate the dressing room. Not alienate them all publicly and bring in ted lasso for training.

 

[DevilRed]

True could be nothing, but he almost got a job there before ending up here so its interesting to hear from another club's board.

What about Sam Pilger?!

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39% win rate...

We should be asking him for his wages back. Appalling fraud.

 

[Maticmaker]

Out of interest how often do you think that actually happens though?

Because Solskjaer despite having been sacked taking the time to speak to Rangnick is about the only time I've ever heard of it happening. I imagine it's a very rare occurrence indeed as most managers (probably 95%) leave a club because they are sacked.

Do you imagine Moyes spoke to LVG, Louis to Jose, or Jose to Ole?

Yes I am sure it does, fairly regularly, obviously unless its released to the press, nobody knows for sure, but most Managers are members of the Football Managers Association (TU) and will discuss everything under the sun regarding football management.

Lots of people believe that LvG, after he reputedly had offered Woodward his resignation in the November, following a few bad results, was turned down, until the end of the season, and that there was contact between him and Jose... some have even argued it was LvG who said to Jose "I'm off at the end of the season, get your application in now!"

In Ralf's case he clearly (despite the interim title) was not there to manage, if he could get a 4th place, great, but I suspect his main purpose was to weigh up what needed to happen, who the 'real' trouble makers were, the 'whisperers' etc. and if possible get the basics of pressing integrated into the training. Clearly this last objective didn't work, why..... we shall have to await Ralf's memoirs!

 

[Jericho]

Not sure how he can be considered a disaster. We were 8th and terrible when he came in. We are 6th and terrible when he left. He was an interim manager. He simply occupied the position until Ten Hag was available. And hopefully gave some feedback and who the problem players are.

 

[B. Munich]

I just gave you reason why.

Who do you think had better chance to succeed at Bayern, Nagelsmann or Rangnick?

I get your point. I would choose Nagelsmann as well but for different reasons. Nagelsmann is from Munich and it's his childhood dream to coach Bayern. Rangnick was like Daum i and Klopp always very critical about Bayern.

Bayern and United are in total different position. Bayern just won the 10th Bundesliga title. There are some concerns in dressing room with Lewandowski but otherwise it's a functional team with strong axis and clear hierarchy. In which state United are I don't have to tell you, you know better than me.

So let me rephrase what I mean. I wouldn't be worried, if ETH took over at Munich. Even I prefer Nagelsmann but that might be due to I don't know ETH enough.
Or if you guys world have hired Nagelsmann I wouldn't be sure if he succeeds at United either. Despite Nagelsmann being an excellent communicator and mediator compared to ETH.

 

[devips]

39% win rate...

We should be asking him for his wages back. Appalling fraud.

Absolutely.

 

[stevoc]

Yes I am sure it does, fairly regularly, obviously unless its released to the press, nobody knows for sure, but most Managers are members of the Football Managers Association (TU) and will discuss everything under the sun regarding football management.

Lots of people believe that LvG, after he reputedly had offered Woodward his resignation in the November, following a few bad results, was turned down, until the end of the season, and that there was contact between him and Jose... some have even argued it was LvG who said to Jose "I'm off at the end of the season, get your application in now!"

Maybe it happens regularly and is just never publicised mate, who knows.

In Ralf's case he clearly (despite the interim title) was not there to manage, if he could get a 4th place, great, but I suspect his main purpose was to weigh up what needed to happen, who the 'real' trouble makers were, the 'whisperers' etc. and if possible get the basics of pressing integrated into the training. Clearly this last objective didn't work, why..... we shall have to await Ralf's memoirs!

I don't believe that for a second personally mate.

Fletcher is on the staff now, so if Arnold/Murtagh wanted to identify trouble makers for some reason all Darren had to do was ask Phil Jones or DeGea who was acting up, he played with both for years.

I just don't buy any of this narrative that has built up around Ralf to be honest. We hired him because we needed to hire an experienced short term manager to salvage a season at short notice and Murtagh knows Rangnick so he picked Ralf. I don't think there was any planning in it beyond that, the consultancy role was at Ralf's request to make up for his lost earnings from leaving his Moscow contract early.

Occam's razor.

 

[mu4c_20le]

39% win rate...

We should be asking him for his wages back. Appalling fraud.

Don't be so cruel, the man already missed out on a £1m bonus

 

[Ranchero]

Conte would have got us better results than Rangnick did over the same period of time. But that’s not the point. Conte wasn’t a popular choice because of what his appointment means in the much longer term. He wasn’t ever considered as an interim manager, nor would he have accepted such a role, so the comparison is pointless.

Ole was a popular choice. Popular doesn't mean right.

 

[criticalanalysis]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

You're not wrong but you're barking up the wrong tree imo. I don't think the consensus is that all is going to be well from now on.

If anything, at least from what I can see on these forums, a lot of people understand he's got a massive job on his hands, needs to do a big clear out and will need some major signings; that's not to mention working with a new 'regime' under Arnold.

The euphoria is natural as we finally have a modern manager that wants to be play in a progressive way, who seems to be of a coach-first mentality. That's arguably been the weakest point of all our managers post Fergie. It's optimism based on 1) blind faith 2) because surely it can't get any worse (?!) than Ole/Ralf and 3) despite all the off field issues (structure, transfers, hierarchy, owners etc), football is a game played with 11 players on the pitch. What we're hoping for is to see players improved, playing in a structured manner, working towards the goal of playing consistent, productive football. We have talent in the squad and the potential is there for someone to come in and mould it to their philosophy.

 

[DSG]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

Counterpoints:
1. I wouldn’t describe the feeling as “euphoria” more like “hope” or “cautious optimism” Finally, there is relief that Ralf is gone.
2. Over 30 years of management experience isn’t necessarily an impressive achievement. Pep hasn’t managed for 30 years, are we supposed to think Ralf is a better manager? Most of those years Ralf piled up in Bundesliga 2 and lower leagues. He had 7-8 season in the BL with short stints with all. 2 of those seasons, he hired himself (!). Oh, and he won 1 single trophy, with Schalke, a the German Cup, when he took over the team after their place in the final was already booked. They beat a BL 2 team. He has never personally played for even a 3rd division side.
3. Tactical skills: he basically copied, and improved (if we are being kind) a tactic that was employed by Saatchi at Milan and Michels at Ajax, the high press. This proved very effective in the lower leagues, but not as much in the BL, especially after a season or two. Is he a tactical innovator? Yes. Is he a top tactician? If the reports are to be believed that he was getting tactical advice from a coach in Moscow, no.
4. ETH played several years in the Eredivise for Utrecht and Twente. He took over the Go Ahead Eagles in 2012-13 and got them promoted to the Eredivise. He then took over Utrecht, took them to 5th in Eredivise, then was hired by Ajax. He won the Eredivise 3 times in 4 seasons, 2 Dutch Cups and a CL semi-final. He has won the Rinus Michels Award 3 times, and will probably win it again this year. I agree that winning the Eredivise is less impressive than winning the BL, but 3 times in 4 seasons plus a pretty decent CL record seems pretty consistent and arguably better than anything Ralf has accomplished.

I hope ETH can deal with the absolute yahoos that run United. I am cautiously optimistic that he can finally bring us a trophy in the next season or two. I do know that Ralf was awful, and a horrible fit.

 

[Adnan]

Rangnick coached RB Leipzig to the 3rd place in the Bundesliga and the cup final in 2019.
So it's not like he was retired for many years.
Heynckes came out of retirement twice, and even win the treble.

But just disregard Rangnick. He failed already. I'm just curious why so many here are so sure ETH will succeed as it comparing both managers, I can't see many reasons and qualities why ETH would be successful.

I can't predict the future and say for certain that things will go well under ten Hag, but there's definitely more potential with ten Hag than Rangnick.

Rangnick has never managed a club both as a Sporting director and head coach that was even comparable to Ajax when it came to expectations from fans regarding winning titles and playing a attractive brand of football.

Rangnick did step in as interim in the 18/19 season after Hasenhuttl stepped down as the head coach. And yes Leipzig did finish 3rd, but that team had already been coached for two years by Ralph Hassenhuttl. And the reason Hasenhuttl left the club was due to pressure from within club regarding him being a purely 'pressing coach' who was most effective at coaching a team against the ball and not with the ball. Rangnick actually wanted him to stay but other elements within the club wanted the team to develop their game both with the ball and against the ball. Rangnick himself is a 'pressing coach' and his coaching with the ball is very basic.

Erik ten Hag has shown a far higher level of coaching ability at a higher level than Rangnick ever has imo. Rangnick cannot coach positional play with the ball like ten Hag has demonstrated both domestically and in the Champions league. The only comparison between the two is what they expect their teams to do off the ball, when it comes to closing down players in a coordinated manner high up the pitch.

But as far their on the ball approach, movement/decoy runs in the final third and in-game formation changes via positional rotation, ten Hag is comfortably and demonstrably a superior coach.

 

[90 + 5min]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

People that don't know how mechanics behind a team works will always blame manager. In this case, managers are not to blame. This mess is all on players and their behaviour. Both on and of the pitch. It is always easy to blame the manager but that is just nonsens and those should not be taken serious. Problem is clear to see.

 

[Tom Cato]

"Ronaldo wasn't in Ole's plans"

"Ronaldo was a vanity signing by Woodward"

Ole wanted him. I don't know why you guys refuse to believe it.

"When news filtered through on Thursday evening that, to Manchester United’s horror, Cristiano Ronaldo really had agreed to join Manchester City, manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer spoke with his inner circle and knew United had to act.

Solskjaer recognised that beyond the playing aspects for Pep Guardiola’s side across town, seeing Ronaldo pull on the blue shirt of City would have wider consequences for United. To allow a legendary United figure to turn out for their local rivals without a fight would damage the club in the eyes of current players, potential recruits, and supporters. Conversely, Solskjaer pictured the benefits re-signing Ronaldo could bring to his squad, one of the youngest in the Premier League, with his ultra-professionalism and elite pedigree.

Solskjaer placed a call to chief executive Ed Woodward with one aim — he wanted to know if United could do the deal instead. It was a quick conversation. Woodward agreed instantly and set about negotiating with Ronaldo’s Italian club, Juventus.


Solskjaer placed a call to chief executive Ed Woodward with one aim — he wanted to know if United could do the deal instead. It was a quick conversation. Woodward agreed instantly and set about negotiating with Ronaldo’s Italian club, Juventus."

Directly from the Athletic in August.

Ronaldo wasnt in the clubs plans at all.

The only reason he was signed is because he is Ronaldo, and if you can bring him home, you do. The rest you sort out later.

The guy with the giant picture hanging at Carrington would not in a million years be allowed to sign for Manchester City. Everyone with any pull at the club was in contact with Ronaldo, most of all the reason he came back at all - Alex Ferguson

Prior to Ronaldo coming available the plan was always to go with the squad we had in Martial, Rashford and Greenwood plus strenghtened by the guy that was actually in the plans: Jadon Sancho.

Considering what happened to the golden goose trio, things turning sour for Ronaldo in Turin was just dumb luck

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He isn't the only one. I don't even know who Cox is until some of you started latching on to him. Lots of journos were waiting until the season was over before publishing their criticism, we;ll start to see more articles like this.

I went to see a podcast show with Cox back in January and I assure you he was just as scathing then. Said he was a massive fraud that didn’t have any real recent managerial experience. Turns out he was bang on.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

People that don't know how mechanics behind a team works will always blame manager. In this case, managers are not to blame. This mess is all on players and their behaviour. Both on and of the pitch. It is always easy to blame the manager but that is just nonsens and those should not be taken serious. Problem is clear to see.

Utd fans will always blame the players when every other club in world football shows that the manager is the more important figure. I can think of 100 examples of managers that were changed and turned around the fortunes of a club. I can’t think of a single scenario where a manager stayed somewhere 10, years while failing badly and got 22 new signings. It’s indicative of the current age of wanting shiny stuff now now now.

 

[JPRouve]

Utd fans will always blame the players when every other club in world football shows that the manager is the more important figure. I can think of 100 examples of managers that were changed and turned around the fortunes of a club. I can’t think of a single scenario where a manager stayed somewhere 10, years while failing badly and got 22 new signings. It’s indicative of the current age of wanting shiny stuff now now now.

And you have to wonder why have a manager if they aren't judged on the ability to manage less than ideal situations. What makes them valuable at all?

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

And you have to wonder why have a manager if they aren't judged on the ability to manage less than ideal situations. What makes them valuable at all?

Exactly. I don’t want to absolve the players of all blame because they are absolutely culpable for some of it but the manager is always the most important figure and always will be.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Ronaldo wasnt in the clubs plans at all.

The only reason he was signed is because he is Ronaldo, and if you can bring him home, you do. The rest you sort out later.

The guy with the giant picture hanging at Carrington would not in a million years be allowed to sign for Manchester City. Everyone with any pull at the club was in contact with Ronaldo, most of all the reason he came back at all - Alex Ferguson

Prior to Ronaldo coming available the plan was always to go with the squad we had in Martial, Rashford and Greenwood plus strenghtened by the guy that was actually in the plans: Jadon Sancho.

Considering what happened to the golden goose trio, things turning sour for Ronaldo in Turin was just dumb luck

Once he was available, Ole wanted him. That's my point. You completely missed my point.

 

[haru krentz]

The broad consensus here is that Rangnick failed miserably. Many say United was just to big of a club, Rangnick never was in charge of an elite club, wasn't used to deal with big egos and the pressure the United brings.
I don't necessarily agree with these points but let's assume they are valid.

Then I absolutely don't understand the euphoria about ETH becoming the new manager and from now on everything will be better.
ETH's resume is even less impressive than Rangnick's. Rangnick has over 30 years of experience in managing and building clubs. He is, at least in Germany, highly regarded for this tactical skills and developing a new style of football. He is also a good communicator.
ETH only managed 2 teams in the Dutch league. His senior coaching career actually started in 2015 at Utrecht only. He is also not really known to be a good communicator. Also I doesn't have more experience in dealing with super stars and big egos. He never managed a club of the size of United similar to Rangnick.
He had one good run in CL 2019 reaching the semi final. The other seasons were nothing special or underwhelming. Beating Dortmund this year, even Glasgow Rangers or St Pauli were able to do it.

I probably could go on but I guess you get my point.
While a lot of the critic Rangnick received might be true and valid, would it not also apply to ETH? What keeps you guys so optimistic that ETH is the the right guy to bring back success to United?

Roy Hodgson ticks all the boxes here. You think we shall go for him?

 

[roonster09]

I get your point. I would choose Nagelsmann as well but for different reasons. Nagelsmann is from Munich and it's his childhood dream to coach Bayern. Rangnick was like Daum i and Klopp always very critical about Bayern.

Bayern and United are in total different position. Bayern just won the 10th Bundesliga title. There are some concerns in dressing room with Lewandowski but otherwise it's a functional team with strong axis and clear hierarchy. In which state United are I don't have to tell you, you know better than me.

So let me rephrase what I mean. I wouldn't be worried, if ETH took over at Munich. Even I prefer Nagelsmann but that might be due to I don't know ETH enough.
Or if you guys world have hired Nagelsmann I wouldn't be sure if he succeeds at United either. Despite Nagelsmann being an excellent communicator and mediator compared to ETH.

Many have replied to you already why fans are positive about ETH than Rangnick, like I said one is upcoming manager with very successful stint in previous 2 jobs. Rangnick barely held coaching position at any club and the 2 jobs he had as manager, he appointed himself as manager if I'm not wrong.

One is seen as one of the best coaches in Europe for his work at Ajax, other is seen as more of a DoF or director who can put pieces of puzzle for club rather than on the pitch work.

Jose has better CV than Rangnick, even if you make Rangnick 30 years younger and ask him to manage, he won't get a CV like Jose, but still Jose is wrong choice for us. It's not just about CVs, it's also the trend, whether they are improving or declining. For example, Poch in 2022 would be underwhelming choice but in 2016 or 2018 when Jose was sacked, he would have seen as very good appoinment.

Watching Ajax in CL and how they played against big clubs, it's easy to see why fans are optimistic. Points like "They beat dortmund, so what even St Pauli beat them" is a poor argument.

 

[wolvored]

Yes I am sure it does, fairly regularly, obviously unless its released to the press, nobody knows for sure, but most Managers are members of the Football Managers Association (TU) and will discuss everything under the sun regarding football management.

Lots of people believe that LvG, after he reputedly had offered Woodward his resignation in the November, following a few bad results, was turned down, until the end of the season, and that there was contact between him and Jose... some have even argued it was LvG who said to Jose "I'm off at the end of the season, get your application in now!"

In Ralf's case he clearly (despite the interim title) was not there to manage, if he could get a 4th place, great, but I suspect his main purpose was to weigh up what needed to happen, who the 'real' trouble makers were, the 'whisperers' etc. and if possible get the basics of pressing integrated into the training. Clearly this last objective didn't work, why..... we shall have to await Ralf's memoirs!

Thats bullshit. VG didnt know he was getting sacked at the end of the season as he had just won the FA cup and slated the club going behind his back with Mourinho. He said he only wanted 2 years but the club insisted on 3, then went behind his back.

 

[VidaRed]

Thats bullshit. VG didnt know he was getting sacked at the end of the season as he had just won the FA cup and slated the club going behind his back with Mourinho. He said he only wanted 2 years but the club insisted on 3, then went behind his back.

Is it any wonder we're in the shitter ? Our club is run by liars, board promising things to the manager which they dont follow through with, manager promising something to the players which he can't fulfill because the board won't okay it, the players getting pissed and downing tools.

I wonder what mountain was promised to ten hag by the board, he will most likely be not given the said mountain if we have to go by the track record of our board.

Honesty and integrity is important and more so when it comes from the top, otherwise it poisons the entire hierarchy.

 

[wolvored]

Is it any wonder we're in the shitter ? Our club is run by liars, board promising things to the manager which they dont follow through with, manager promising something to the players which he can't fulfill because the board won't okay it, the players getting pissed and downing tools.

I wonder what mountain was promised to ten hag by the board, he will most likely be not given the said mountain if we have to go by the track record of our board.

Honesty and integrity is important and more so when it comes from the top, otherwise it poisons the entire hierarchy.

I read he had guarantees in writing, so if they don't follow through he ought to walk before it falls on him . The thing is this is his big chance to become a big manager at a big club, so will try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear and wont walk.

 

[VidaRed]

I read he had guarantees in writing, so if they don't follow through he ought to walk before it falls on him . The thing is this is his big chance to become a big manager at a big club, so will try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear and wont walk.

Looks like a risky gamble by ten hag. I'd back ten hag unless he's getting us relegated but if he doesn't deliver top 4 at the minimum whilst not being overrun on the field i can foresee a section of fanbase baying for his blood.

 

[frostbite]

"Guarantees" are meaningless. Any manager is just a highly paid worker. If it does not work out, the manager is fired and he is paid what his contract says. We are talking about millions, so it is lawyers on both sides who write the contracts. No "guarantees", written or otherwise, mean anything, the only important thing is what is on the contract. And of course all contracts can be terminated, no doubt about that.

 

[B. Munich]

Rangnick has never managed a club both as a Sporting director and head coach that was even comparable to Ajax when it came to expectations from fans regarding winning titles and playing a attractive brand of football.

Rangnick managed both RB Leipzig, the current number 3 in German football, and Schalke 04 in a time where they were considered a top 3 club as well. He reached the cup final trice and won it once with Schalke. He lead Schalke and RB Leipzig to 2nd and 3rd places in the Bundesliga.

Sure it's hard to compare between different leagues but I think the size and strength of the clubs are at least of similar level.
As a Schalke coach he obviously never coached Dortmund. Bayern would never appoint him due to ongoing quarrels with the board. Not for footballing reasons. You can compare the situation with Christoph Daum who was a top coach but never had a chance to manage Munich.

Rangnick did step in as interim in the 18/19 season after Hasenhuttl stepped down as the head coach. And yes Leipzig did finish 3rd, but that team had already been coached for two years by Ralph Hassenhuttl. And the reason Hasenhuttl left the club was due to pressure from within club regarding him being a purely 'pressing coach' who was most effective at coaching a team against the ball and not with the ball. Rangnick actually wanted him to stay but other elements within the club wanted the team to develop their game both with the ball and against the ball. Rangnick himself is a 'pressing coach' and his coaching with the ball is very basic.

I only remember that Hassenhüttl hit a ceiling and that season things were even going downwards. They only finished 6th and his football was seen as too one dimensional. They wanted Nagelsmann but he wasn't yet available and Rangnick was the care taker for one season (maybe that's why the United board thought Rangnick was a good choice?).
The finished 3rd and reached the German cup final. So clearly Rangnick improved them.

Erik ten Hag has shown a far higher level of coaching ability at a higher level than Rangnick ever has imo. Rangnick cannot coach positional play with the ball like ten Hag has demonstrated both domestically and in the Champions league. The only comparison between the two is what they expect their teams to do off the ball, when it comes to closing down players in a coordinated manner high up the pitch.

I don't question your statement as you are much more knowledgeable about football. I don't doubt ETH is good coach playing attractive football.
My concern was purely from a player and team management point of view. Managing the big egos, dealing with steady leaks of interns to the press, players consistently complaining about being not happy with the training, the rules, training times, positions they have to play, issues between different groups within the squad....

I'm not following United that closely but when I read articles they mostly were about players being unhappy for various reasons.
Red Cafe is full of threads about these issues.
Many were saying Rangnick wasn't experienced enough to manage a big club like United. He couldn't deal with the huge egos of the stars and couldn't mold a team that was playing successful football.
I actually believe Rangnick is an excellent man manager and knows better than most how to build a team. He isn't afraid to take the necessary though decisions. But of course he needs the full backing off the board.
When Klopp and Pep joined Liverpool and Man City they immediately started a huge clear out with the full support of the board. Rangnick never got this support. I believe Rangnick would be able to assemble a strong squad being able to compete. He showed it at all his previous clubs. However, this can't be done in 6 months.
Now ETH doesn't have this experience at all. He is surely a good coach. Would he take over Man City, I'm sure he would be successful. What I mean ETH needs a functional team. He then will most likely make it better. However, I doubt he is the ideal guy for a big clear out and total rebuild of the squad. I might be wrong and the future will tell

 

[roonster09]

When Klopp and Pep joined Liverpool and Man City they immediately started a huge clear out with the full support of the board. Rangnick never got this support. I believe Rangnick would be able to assemble a strong squad being able to compete. He showed it at all his previous clubs. However, this can't be done in 6 months.

What do you mean by Rangnick never got the support? He was interim manager, you think board should have cleared the squad in Jan window?

Also when you want to wash your dirty laundry in press then expect lot of leaks from players side. People go on and on about leaks from dressing room but they also forgot that Rangnick hired media person as his advisor, someone who works for Athletic. Both are as shit as each other when it comes to leaks, on top of that Rangnick talked so much in the press, it was obvious that players will also have their say. You can't expect it to be one sided.

As long as the results are good, everything will be alright. That's the biggest difference maker, not ted talks show.

 

[sglowrider]

I read he had guarantees in writing, so if they don't follow through he ought to walk before it falls on him . The thing is this is his big chance to become a big manager at a big club, so will try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear and wont walk.

This. He must have done his due diligence. Plus it's an opportunity to exert some leverage on a new DOF and CEO.