I mean, if you want to pay him for 2.5 years, pay him for 2.5 years (or pay him a huge salary for half a year to compensate for it). You don't need to tell the world he'll do consultency work he's never going to do.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
- Thread starter L1nk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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It was a failure of appointment, but the initial idea was pretty good. It's getting a football person that is known to bring an exciting attacking style and established it as a template for several Clubs. It doesn't work,
- mostly because the players are not buying it (f* bast** most of them)
- the Club decide to go with ETH's vision/style.
I was hoping that Murtough would go with his initial statement of letting a football people decide the footballing side. Thus having someone neutral as Ralf to brainstorm ideas or giving input on the side, instead of rely on manager (that can come and go). He has Fletcher there, but hahaa.. enough said about him by devilish.
- mostly because the players are not buying it (f* bast** most of them)
- the Club decide to go with ETH's vision/style.
I was hoping that Murtough would go with his initial statement of letting a football people decide the footballing side. Thus having someone neutral as Ralf to brainstorm ideas or giving input on the side, instead of rely on manager (that can come and go). He has Fletcher there, but hahaa.. enough said about him by devilish.
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Well he admitted he made mistakes, so I doubt that
That is and always was Ten Hag's decision to make. Ralf wasn't assessing the squad.
Is he actually known for exciting attacking football though?
Is there any lame attacking football? Maybe "attacking" is not a correct word? United under SAF was considered as an "attacking" team, although we were also counterattack a lot.
It's more of an exciting high energy style.
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I think this 'consultancy role' which could encompass a number of different things will probably now fall to McClaren, which I'm not sure is a good thing or not. I think Ralf was very limited as a manager, but I always felt his better work could be done under the consultancy role, where he has proven himself time and time again.
This is my only worry for ETH, at Ajax when things got tough he had Marc Overmars who backed him to the hilt and agreed with his vision - ETH isn't going to have that here.
This is my only worry for ETH, at Ajax when things got tough he had Marc Overmars who backed him to the hilt and agreed with his vision - ETH isn't going to have that here.
Im sure they would use him for something. I guess the point is he wanted a longer role if he was leaving a 2.5 year role & united had no intention of giving him a longer managerial contract.
Given that we haven't kept him I don't see any other explanations... I'm not buying that Ten Haag doesn't want a consultant into the higher up structure of the club, we should tell him to shut up if that is the case. I also don't buy that we changed our mind on the value of his structural input based on his coaching input to date.
I agree about that. People are running away with a whole lot of baseless theories.
My guess - which is no better than those theories, though it's simpler - is that he lost his shine to us because his managerial stint was a disaster.
Yes long ball football is attacking football if it's effective and lads to goals.
I don't remember Ralf's Schalke team being very exciting to watch, never watched Leipzeig under him. Though personally I don't necessarly consider pressing football in and of itself to be very exciting to watch.
It would be about a pamplet level thick of a book. He barely achieved anything nor has many highlights unless its about him in those self-promoting interviews. But then there is already Youtube for that.
The Dutch fitness coach (Verheijen) the poster is referring to has become a bit of a joke. And the irony of it all, is that it's Verheijen who is outdated with his methods and not Klopp and Moyes. The below tweet/article, with research provides evidence of Verheijen being dated in his approach to fitness.
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TGG: "Australian sports scientist Tim Gabbett has produced extensive research showing that players are protected against injuries when they achieve high training loads - so long as they do so safely, without sudden spiking."
"Earlier this year Gabbett, who has worked with Chelsea as well as Barcelona and the Football Association, told TGG: "A lot of people tend to think of workload as having a negative effect, but there’s a lot of positive that comes with it. The pendulum has swung back - no longer do we have to see workload as the bad guy."
“Getting the players to high loads is a good thing – it keeps them fit, allows them to perform at a really high level and actually keeps them injury free. High chronic loads being protective is probably the big thing that has been skipped over though. It's the true paradox.”
"Again, research has shown that suddenly dropping to low training loads in pre-season can be detrimental."
"At the other end of the spectrum is underloading, when an athlete hasn’t had enough time to develop enough chronic load, which protects you against the spikes," Gabbett told TGG. "It’s much harder to spike from the ceiling than from the basement."
"Alan Pardew has said he regrets not putting his players through a tougher pre-season at Crystal Palace last summer."
https://trainingground.guru/articles/klopp-v-verheijen-who-is-right-about-liverpool-injuries
Literally right there as one of the fist sentences in your own post. In this case there was nothing safe about overtraining an already aging and injury prone player in his first week of preseason. Right there in your own post.
Well, you got the wrong Russian team, but I get your point.
Just like Ole came from Molde, and that's his level. Our last two managers have been fecking hideous.
Verheijen is a moron, not sure why anyone would use him to make point. He just shits on every coach, as if he is some GOAT fitness coach.
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Oh yeah I totally agree.
At least we had some modest success with LvG and Jose. But all of our post-Fergie appointments have been different levels of awful. You couldn't pick a 'best manager' post-Fergie, just a 'least worst manager'. That in itself is crazy considering it's been close to a decade and 5 different appointments (obviously excluding Giggs and Carrick).
The initial idea was to hire him as a temporary manager till the summer. That was all.
The idea about "consultancy" was idiotic from the start. It was probably proposed by RR himself, nobody else wanted a useless "consultant". Have you seen any other team hiring a temp manager and then have him as a "consultant"? Not a director, not a CEO, but a "consultant"? What the heck is a "consultant" in football?
In this case you wouldn't even need more than an idiot to testify to the fact that crash coursing fitness will cause the body to breakdown. If an idiot says 2 plus 2 is 4 are you going to argue it's 5? Literally replace the asserter with some random bloke on the street and the answer would stay valid. He didn't invent the idea to use a systemic approach to load management. Even the article the poster posted inadvertently supported the fact that you shouldnt try to crash course fitness.
Couldn't care less about Moyes, this moron said Klopp and Conte are dinosaurs when they had few injuries, I consider him as twitter clown.
Doesn’t fit the agenda thoughAgree with you on both counts.
The positive take from rangnicks reign here is that he has paved a way for ETH to have time here to implement what he wants. All the fans are 100% behind the manager against these players and that bodes well for him to clear house if he sees fit. No one here would be upset if we sell any of the squad. Favouritism is out the window.
It's amazing just how poor our managerial recruitment has been post-Fergie!
In the end, Ralf was a complete disaster. Had he stayed on in a consultancy capacity and possibly done some good work in that role, you could maybe negate just how bad his managerial spell was. But nope, he's gone now and the whole thing has been a disaster. What a season; managed by Ole and Ralf! Fml, hopefully we never experience anything like that again.
Came, said obvious things, team played the worst in 20, 30 years or something, left. Maybe his legacy will only be a 2 hour phone call with ETH.
Worst managerial appointment ever, even if we take all the excuses going for him like toxic dressing room, no transfers etc. Hopefully ETH will be a start of good ones.
Worst managerial appointment ever, even if we take all the excuses going for him like toxic dressing room, no transfers etc. Hopefully ETH will be a start of good ones.
Oh here we go, Ralf was laying foundations for Erik was he?
How do you know any of that?
According to who was it unsafe?
Yep, it's right there that unless you do it unsafely via 'sudden spiking' then there isn't a issue. And Van Persie was prone to injuries when he was at Arsenal and there's no evidence about Van Persie being asked to spike his fitness levels from the base to the ceiling during pre-season.
Verheijen is wrong according to latest research and it's why he's been mouthing off on twitter for the last 10 years, rather than being employed by a professional club.
It was a bad mistake by the board again in bringing in an interim manager and it has cost us a top 4 place this season.
I am really hoping things change for the best this season and Ten Hag gets the backing needed to put this club back where it belongs.
If he doesn't get the backing it won't happen and it should start with 6 players in this summer and continue in next 2 windows including January window.
I am really hoping things change for the best this season and Ten Hag gets the backing needed to put this club back where it belongs.
If he doesn't get the backing it won't happen and it should start with 6 players in this summer and continue in next 2 windows including January window.
Also I’m not sure how useful a consultant is when their advice is the team needs 10 new players.
Great insight Ralf!
Great insight Ralf!
Good to see that many are now acknowledging that Rangnick was a mistake. I still wish the club went for Conte. We could have always swapped him for Ten Haag If deemed necessary.
Dont be delusional.
Conte would never accept being interim. We would never have sacked a permanent manager after 6 months. With conte we could have easily got top 4 or it could have been a bigger implosion because conte wouldn't take lightly to players downing tools. Conte also doesn't shy away from spouting infront of the media, this is a major no-no for our board and glazers. I believe rangnick has also been dumped for publicly questioning the way the club has been run. With conte it was either him or the lazy toxic downtooling players, i would pick the former but the club wants to protect "value" hence player power reigns supreme.
You’d be paying loads to sack Conte and get ETH in.
Why are you accusing me of being delusional?
1. Conte leaked to the press that he wants the United job.
2. The players needed a serial winner and disciplinarian to keep them focused for the rest of the season.
3. Conte’s football can be adapted to our playing team quite easily. The opposite of Rangnick and his MLS coach(es).
4. Conte didn’t need to be hired as an interim. Like you said, we can simply part ways at the end of the season. The club needs to be more machiavellian in this regard.
5. I am aware that the Board’s incompetence is why we got Rangnick over Conte. That’s why I wished they weren’t so.
Less than the failure to qualify for the Champions League, which includes - TV Rights, prize money, commercial deals, player acquisition. The direct impact alone is worth tens of millions.
We could have easily included a clause in the contract pertaining to early termination due to Conte’s history.
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He wouldn’t have accepted it, he’s not going to take a job where they can sack him without him getting paid it’s not realistic.
The only positive ETH can take from Rangnick's short reign here is that given the glaringly obvious problems that have been laid out publicly with the current squad, and the fact investment is clearly needed, he cannot possibly fail - or he can, but any sort of under investment or failure by the club to properly back him gets him off scot-free. That's why it's a low risk job for ETH. His reputation is not on the line. The clubs reputation is. That was subtly different when RR was recruited.
Huh. If a surveyor came around to my house and told me that it needed knocking down before it falls on me an my family I wouldn't say "fecking lot of use you are telling me to knock it down".
You hire people to tell you the truth (if you aren't stupid). Not to give you the answers you want to hear. Thats been the issue at the club for too long.
I think the problem is that in Rangnick's case he's not a surveyor, but a professional house-knocker-downer.
We brought in a demolition man to fix the faulty wiring.
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