Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[sglowrider]

Not confirmed by the club. But it is being reported by The Torygraph.

At least they are professionalising the club. Give Arnold some credit for this. The question is what sort of model. Consultants can be used as lightning rods for the masses by the CEO.

 

[sglowrider]

If Romano is correct, it seems ten Hag might have ended the consultancy role.

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How different is the geggenpress versus ETH's approach? If there is a vast diff I am sure they will diff in terms of the sort of players they require.

 

[Cafer007]

Our net spend since Sir Alex retired is 900M, the highest compared to City(850) / Barca (450) but the champion league finalists Liverpool(300) and Real's net spend is amazingly less than 200M proves you dont have to spend too much if you are wise enough or make right calls.

No doubt Glazers spent a lot but they didnt bother to put a proper hierarchy and depended a lot on Ed.
I do feel we need someone like Ralf in that role who was a great success in last 7/8 years of spotting young talent and also got continental connections which helps. so I really wish we could use his services but it seems he got annoyed with the inside circus and realised cant get his ideas implemented here. That might be the reason he decided to move on.

 

[Lynty]

Makes us look stupid in my opinion. All this talk about how he we be perfect for the club in his role working with the new manager, and then we go and fire him before any of that happens. Typical modern United.

Which points to it being Ten Hag's decision.

It would have been pretty easy (and cheap) for the club to have just let him continue his 'part time consultantcy' and just ignored his advice. We've done similar things plenty times.

 

[city-puma]

It amazes me how badly run this club continues to be. There are very experienced football people we could have hired, from CEOs to DOFs. We continue to appoint internally, drawing from a culture of failure. I hope to be proven wrong, but see little sign of things improving. Murtough was at the club for 7 years before becoming DoF, what is the great achievement he delivered at the club over this period? Then we appoint Flether who doesnt even have a coaching badge. Its shambolic and amuteurish. Any owner who cared would have cleared out the lost and brought in the best.

ETH seems a good manager but one person cannot turn the club around. The recent articles in the TImes exposing the absolute mess at the club and the incompetence of Woodward are shocking, though merely confirming what we all suspected. It highlight a culture of penny pinching and scrutinising all expenditure, such as not paying Moyes release clause and charging players for soft drinks from a mini bar. I think this attitude contines when it comes to non playing staff recruitment. I am beginning to despair at the club even being competititve under the current owners.

If you don’t know what Mouthough has done here, why do you assume he has done nothing and achieved nothing? His work has been a concrete part of our culture rest, with many others including Ole, we now again have a very promising youth pipeline.
I think it the best to chose from internal the DoF. They know details of the club and they can work more smoothly with head coach.
The appointment of Ralf is bad for Mouthough as it turns out, but at least we should all understand it is always a hit or miss by nature. I will watch how the new structure performs and I am optimistic.

 

[Adnan]

How different is the geggenpress versus ETH's approach? If there is a vast diff I am sure they will diff in terms of the sort of players they require.

The gegenpress (counter press) is trying to win the ball back immediately after losing possession. And most coaches nowadays implement that method, and there isn't a big difference between coaches when it comes to implementing the method, which reguires positional play off the ball.

But the difference between ten Hag and Rangnick is what they want their teams to do on the ball. Rangnick's approach is very basic, where the aim is to transition quickly with heavy emphasis on quick forward passes bypassing the midfield in the process. And ten Hag wants his team to either transition quickly via quick vertical passes or transition to positional play with the ball to out manoeuvre the opposition by exerting zonal and positional control to open space for the freeman.

It's more difficult to coach what ten Hag wants to achieve. But if successful, it has the potential to leave a strong identity throughout the club.

 

[Cafer007]

We played brilliant football in his first game against palace for 30 mins or so but our players stamina was so bad they couldn't keep that tempo for the whole game, After that so much noise came from players camps that his training methods were poor etc. Being a interim didn't help him either.

Real low point was Jesse getting extra time off from owners and Ralf was not even aware of that. I really feel sorry for this guy.

Players lose 25% of the money if we don't qualify for champions league, still they gave up in second half of the season shows how difficult to motivate these players. Literally we need to reset the culture, mentality of the players or bring in players with right qualities if we want to become a respected club again.

I honestly feel Ten Hag looks like a shrewd person who can make the required changes. Hope owners support him and give full control.

 

[sglowrider]

The gegenpress (counter press) is trying to win the ball back immediately after losing possession. And most coaches nowadays implement that method, and there isn't a big difference between coaches when it comes to implementing the method, which reguires positional play off the ball.

But the difference between ten Hag and Rangnick is what they want their teams to do on the ball. Rangnick's approach is very basic, where the aim is to transition quickly with heavy emphasis on quick forward passes bypassing the midfield in the process. And ten Hag wants his team to either transition quickly via quick vertical passes or transition to positional play with the ball to out manoeuvre the opposition by exerting zonal and positional control to open space for the freeman.

It's more difficult to coach what ten Hag wants to achieve. But if successful, it has the potential to leave a strong identity throughout the club.

Thanks. There is always something to learn from you.

 

[Seveneric]

Good.

If his consulting was anything like his "insights" as manager, it'd be pointing out things any dummy can see, but saying it publicly.

Only downside is that (if the experts here are to be believed) the only reason he was hired as a manager was to transition him into a consultancy role. But now, not only did United hire a useless manager, he won't even be able to fulfil the consultant's role. With hindsight it's looking more and more like Solskjaer should have been allowed to stay with his sinking ship until the end of the season. He couldn't have been that worse.

 

[::sonny::]

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[Berbaclass]

How different is the geggenpress versus ETH's approach? If there is a vast diff I am sure they will diff in terms of the sort of players they require.

I think from listening to Romano it was more a case of Rangnick and United not being on the same page.

 

[phelans shorts]

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Says it all to me, be absolutely shite at your job and off you pop

 

[stevoc]

Makes us look stupid in my opinion. All this talk about how he we be perfect for the club in his role working with the new manager, and then we go and fire him before any of that happens. Typical modern United.

To be fair that was always a fan fiction, the club never actually said anything of the sort beyond the fact he would take up a consultancy role for 2 years.

 

[horsechoker]

Says it all to me, be absolutely shite at your job and off you pop

Yeah the results were awful at the end of his reign.

 

[Berbaclass]

Seemingly just got sidelined and rightly walked away

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[sglowrider]

I think from listening to Romano it was more a case of Rangnick and United not being on the same page.

Yeap. I got the impression that they wanted different type players going forward. And ETH realised that they have different visions.
So murtogh threw his chips on ETH.

The concern is group think going forward

 

[Matt851]

At least they are professionalising the club. Give Arnold some credit for this. The question is what sort of model. Consultants can be used as lightning rods for the masses by the CEO.

What do you mean by professionalising the club? Where is the evidence for this?

All sounds like the cultural reboot we underwent under ed and ole which went so well

 

[devips]

Our net spend since Sir Alex retired is 900M, the highest compared to City(850) / Barca (450) but the champion league finalists Liverpool(300) and Real's net spend is amazingly less than 200M proves you dont have to spend too much if you are wise enough or make right calls.

No doubt Glazers spent a lot but they didnt bother to put a proper hierarchy and depended a lot on Ed.
I do feel we need someone like Ralf in that role who was a great success in last 7/8 years of spotting young talent and also got continental connections which helps. so I really wish we could use his services but it seems he got annoyed with the inside circus and realised cant get his ideas implemented here. That might be the reason he decided to move on.

How many titles has Ralf won in his whole career? How many top tier teams has he coached?

Do you know where he was working before he came here? It's Zenit in Russia.

Yes, that's his level.

 

[Berbaclass]

How many titles has Ralf won in his whole career? How many top tier teams has he coached?

Do you know where he was working before he came here? It's Zenit in Russia.

Yes, that's his level.

Lokomotiv Moscow.

 

[city-puma]

Yeap. I got the impression that they wanted different type players going forward. And ETH realised that they have different visions.
So murtogh threw his chips on ETH.

The concern is group think going forward

Do you really believe it’s after the two-hour talk ETH just realize it?
The best Ralf could produce is Aston villa mark II if he is given all the power and money. It is far away to compete the title in EPL. His ceiling is obvious to see. His flaw is profound.
After this disastrous interim manager, no big club will even touch him. He has been found out out of his depth dearly.

 

[zenith]

Glad to see the back of RR. He was utterly useless at the job and frankly they could have put Fred the red in charge and we would have gotten better results.

Good riddance

 

[The-Natural]

This is not a cause for celebration in my opinion.

 

[LuckyScout78]

+ Mourtough was thinking Ralf was his dreamlady. Have a crush and big admirer of of him for a long time.
Ralf said to Mourtough. If you want to marry me. You get to give me a two years consultant role.
+ Mourtough to Ralf : "I agree. As long as you marry me. I give you everything you want.

But after marrying. That dreamlady and the marriage doesnt turn out like Mourtough was dreaming about. A disaster of a marriage.

+ Then came Ten Hag into this relationship. Ralf seem he doesnt get and will not influence, power and no respect from players. He decide to leave. And Mourtough and club agree with it.

So Mourtough, Ralf and United is a story like marriage. We think and fantasy how that person will be in the relationship. But the reality is totally different. It was so ours imaginations and dreaming. A dreamlady turn out to be disaster. For Mourtough. Ralf was the dreamlady and ideal lady for him and United.

That is how i see it. Not only in football. Relationship, marriage and life in general. Perfect in theory, but different in practise.


And another thing is. How can you think and be sure a Dof. Who hasn't work direct and closer with the players. The link between the players. Theirs mentality. If Ralf is just a Dof. More of an office guy. No got direct involved with the players.
It like a manager at a restaurant or a DOF at a restaurant trying to be master chef. Who run and have and make all the decisions on the cusine/kitchen. Yeah its, totally different. Special if you have't been on the kitchen to work direct with the ingredients and cusine's assitant.
It would never turn out to be good this Ralf appointment. Not a chance. It take years and years to become a really good masterchef.
A masterchef have a manager who order the ingredients for him. Because he is so so busy on the kitchen. A business manager trying to be a masterchef. Not possible. But it takes a lot of years and time. Same with Ralf. He wasn't a masterchef or head coach.

So who do you trust most to make you the best meal and a football result? A head coach or a consulant role guy = a more office guy. Who is not working direct with the ingredients. In the football worlds. The ingredients is the players. And if the the head coach and masterchef doesn't get the best ingredients in the market. Against others top masterchef and restaurant. He will be done too.
So everything is depends and related to each others. Like a spider web of relations and depenence.
If we think our human ego can alone run the business and cuisine. Then soon or later ours ego will drive us against the wall. And we hit the reality.

One of the thing to key success. Like Ten Tag said. Togetherness. Believe more in we than ours ego. Because of me and because of me. Ours big ego "I"
There are many puzzles and factors that lead to the bigger picture = success.

And luck is one of that big factor. Luck is one of the big puzzle.

Yeah Liverpool were better than Real Madrid
Bayern Munich were better than United in 1999. But to go all the way. The different between two really strong teams. Its all about luck. You get ladyluck on your sites.

In the end i am not blaming on someone. Like i said. Its like a domino effect. Before Mourtough and Ralf. It was Woodward and Ole...and keeps going back like that.

But again. What we wish and want. Its just ours imaginations. But reality are and will turn out to be a lot of different. Mourtough, United and Ralf wasnt a good marriage. Its over and lets move on. Zero your mind and live in the present. We use to dream and expect a lot. My dreamlady.

 

[DSG]

All this "he spoke truth, so club didn't like him" are hilarious takes. It's not like ManUtd is running mafia and Rangnick is some secret detective who discovered some hidden documents and truths ffs. Not sure why everything should be so dramatic.

Because some git on YouTube who has to fill an hour of commentary on essentially nothing, needs an angle. Real journalism is dead mate. Have an outrageous take with no evidence or source? Doesn’t matter, just shout louder than everyone else and it will become a story.

 

[m1tch]

Not surprised by this at all, it quickly became evident that appointing RR was a total disaster. Chasing your losses never makes sense, so persisting with him as a consultant was fraught with the danger of sour relations developing with EtH.

RR's appointment shows us up for being a compete mess when it comes to such decisions, like the club hierarchy had probably decided gangnam press was the only way to success based on Liverpool winning 2 major trophies in 6 years doing it. Terminating the consultancy is actually encouraging, especially off the back of appointing EtH which appears to be of a sounder basis.

It's frustrating though, it's quite reasonable to say that there would have been a few other options for interim that could have seen us get 4th. If only the selection criteria had been "wins football matches in the premier league" over "gangnam press / xG stats".

 

[shamans]

Hopefully you only talk like a bellend in the mornings. You could have asked for examples and I would have promptly obliged with no drama. Imagine calling someone else clueless while having no frame of reference to the goings on from his tenure and the criticisms around his run-heavy training sessions. One of the more known instances was his handling of RVP, a player who was already struggling for health.


Overtraining a player in his first week back like he's a car. A practice now discouraged for making players susceptible to soft tissus injuries. Dutch coach would describe it best.

No I was clearly insinuating that whatever you are deducing about Murtough from him being a "Moyes man" is ridiculous. It's not like everything that came in contact is forever tainted as some lower form of football. Murtough has had a long successful career along with Moyes at Everton.

He has been at the club since Moyes as well. BTW, using one quote to prove something about overtraining makes no sense. Conte is well known to train his players to the absolute ground and he is a world class coach. So there is nothing dinosaur about this.

You also don't finish in the top 8 of the PL with clubs like West Ham if you are a dinosaur at training at tactics.

 

[DevilRed]

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The context is he brought in Bailly, Lindelof and a host of others, then realised they were shit and wanted to replace them in a year.

 

[shamans]

On a side note, now that he's gone it always annoyed me how he said in that one click since 30% of goals come from set pieces 30% of training should also be focused on set pieces.

Sounds like twisting stats to prove a point that doesn't exist. If a set piece takes a second and each play of open play is a second, then that means set pieces are probably 5% of the total game or something. If you score 30% more from those 5% then maybe train like 7-8% set pieces but training 30% for a game that is mainly open play sounds silly.

He seemed like a smart coach though so I'm sure this sorta talk was just for the press

 

[crossy1686]

I think someone woke up in the morning and realised that Man United can’t have the coach of Austria employed on a part time basis to give them advice on how to run a football club.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

So it seems he was useless at a job he never got to do ?

Nobody got excited by him being our interim manager, we have bigger issues upstairs that need sorting out before we can even think of moving forward.

He was supposedly brought in to sort that mess out and that is what mattered.

Now he is not even going to be doing that, which is just another example of why this club is being held back by idiots making stupid decisions.

 

[fallengt]

I hope club at least stick to RR's assessment and bin 10 players like he said.
These players don't deserve clean plate after they got 3 managers sacked in short period of time.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I think someone woke up in the morning and realised that Man United can’t have the coach of Austria employed on a part time basis to give them advice on how to run a football club.

Even before his Austria appointment it was obvious Rangnick was on his way out. There was a press conference early April it was obvious by his demeanour he didn't want to be there.
Getting in Rangnick and lying to the fans about his role beyond his 6 month managerial contract sums up the shoddy way we've been run the last 10 years.

 

[Bocca9978]

If he wanted the Austria job more then good riddance to him. He has help waste this season.
Pointless appointment in the first place.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Says it all to me, be absolutely shite at your job and off you pop

Crap at his job for winning us two of only three trophies in the last eight seasons. Can only imagine what you think of Ole, Moyes and LVG.

I was quite frustrated with Jose by the end of his time here but I've softened since and try to remember the good more than the bad. The man still goes around talking about how wonderful United fans are. It would be nice to see more reciprocating the positivity instead of coming off like bitter unforgiving and miserable armchair opinion warriors.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Michael Cox speculating on TFS that it was simply a financial arrangement. His contract in Russia had 2.5 years..united wanted him for six months and said ye ok we will pay you for 2.5 years. Makes good sense to me, some security for Ralf which he now doesn't need, united don't want him anyway

 

[choccy77]

I just hope Ralf writes a book and his six months at United takes up half of it.

Will be fascinating reading if he tells all.

 

[phelans shorts]

I just hope Ralf writes a book and his six months at United takes up half of it.

Will be fascinating reading if he tells all.

I’m sure it will confirm that he did nothing wrong at any point. He’s pointed that out often enough.

 

[Amir]

Michael Cox speculating on TFS that it was simply a financial arrangement. His contract in Russia had 2.5 years..united wanted him for six months and said ye ok we will pay you for 2.5 years.

That wouldn't have required talking about consultency though.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

That wouldn't have required talking about consultency though.

What do you mean

 

[Greck]

No I was clearly insinuating that whatever you are deducing about Murtough from him being a "Moyes man" is ridiculous. It's not like everything that came in contact is forever tainted as some lower form of football. Murtough has had a long successful career along with Moyes at Everton.

He has been at the club since Moyes as well. BTW, using one quote to prove something about overtraining makes no sense. Conte is well known to train his players to the absolute ground and he is a world class coach. So there is nothing dinosaur about this.

You also don't finish in the top 8 of the PL with clubs like West Ham if you are a dinosaur at training at tactics.

Feel free to post what he said about conte and those other managers.