Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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stevoc

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Sorry but this is just silly deflection.
:lol:

It's a fact, you made a claim with no basis. Then spent 3 pages arguing that point and talking yourself round in circles.

Was Ralf Rangnick brought in to be the DOF or any role with similar authority at Manchester United?
 

AlPistacho

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How was he wrong? ETH basically got almost a brand new team and almost all of the players have been integral to this side. Sure, you can argue Rangnick's approach was wrong, should have been done behind the scenes, but his argument definitely wasn't
Did ETH sign 11 new players? Yes Casemiro has been integral to United this season, as has Martinez. But Rashford, Varane, Shaw, Fred, Garnacho, de Gea, Fernandes, Dalot, and recently AWB are all players that were there last year. Perhaps if RR focused less on playing football manager wonderkids edition, and actually coaching the players he too might have improved them.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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How was he wrong? ETH basically got almost a brand new team and almost all of the players have been integral to this side. Sure, you can argue Rangnick's approach was wrong, should have been done behind the scenes, but his argument definitely wasn't
Rangnick wasn't wrong, rather the Rangnick who defenders have imagined was wrong. Rangnick never said United needed a brand new team, he said the opposite. Here:
The team needs a rebuild, not because some players have to go but quite a few have no contracts anymore, their contracts are expiring, then for me it's clear there will be six, seven, eight, maybe 10 new players.
 

Lyng

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Did ETH sign 11 new players? Yes Casemiro has been integral to United this season, as has Martinez. But Rashford, Varane, Shaw, Fred, Garnacho, de Gea, Fernandes, Dalot, and recently AWB are all players that were there last year. Perhaps if RR focused less on playing football manager wonderkids edition, and actually coaching the players he too might have improved them.
Are we dominant? Do we have a champions league winning side?

Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony and Wout have been added so far and we still need more.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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I don't think this is especially accurate. There wasn't anything vague about his criticisms. You can argue they weren't insightful, sure, but they were specific and accurate.
A lot of his criticism was about process. City/Liverpool have "an idea of how to play", and back the manager for that idea, United don't, that's the difference between them.
I don't think that's accurate at all, let alone insightful.
 

Lyng

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Rangnick wasn't wrong, rather the Rangnick who defenders have imagined was wrong. Rangnick never said United needed a brand new team, he said the opposite. Here:
Keep waffling....

No one, other than the people who are adamant he is hitler incarnate, said he said we needed a new team.
What he said was 10 new players was realistically needed like your quote says. Which is true.

Also why is a Real Madrid fan this butthurt over a failed United interim manager?
 

Iker Quesadillas

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No one, other than the people who are adamant he is hitler incarnate, said he said we needed a new team.
What he said was 10 new players was realistically needed like your quote says. Which is true.
It is trivially true, as I have explained before.

United need a new team in ten years. This is true, since most of the squad will be retired by then. That will be 200 euros for my consulting insights.
 

Lyng

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It is trivially true, as I have explained before.

United need a new team in ten years. This is true, since most of the squad will be retired by then. That will be 200 euros for my consulting insights.
Who talked about 10 years? Also why is it suddenly blatantly obvious when several on here where adamant it was a laughable notion?

Its like some cannot get over this whole thing.
He was a bad manager yes, we all agree. Done. Nothing more to discuss really.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Who talked about 10 years?
It seems like a point has flown over your head.

You keep saying that United needed 10 players. At the end of the season, Rangnick was asked what kind of player United should buy. He said this:

The most important thing is we find a player for whom United is the best next sporting step in their career. They shouldn't want to come here because it's Manchester United because maybe they get a good contract here. It should be for developing their career and taking their next best step.
Many if not most people would agree that Casemiro has been the most influential signing for United this season. Casemiro really does not fit this description. He did not come to United to "develop his career" or make "the next best step." He came to United at age 30 after winning 5 Champions League trophies, and got a very good contract.

You are telling us, "hey this doctor is good, he correctly figured out the patient needed surgery", and we are saying "yes, but the patient has kidney failure and the doctor did eye surgery on them."
 

Dion

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:lol:

It's a fact, you made a claim with no basis. Then spent 3 pages arguing that point and talking yourself round in circles.

Was Ralf Rangnick brought in to be the DOF or any role with similar authority at Manchester United?
If you're not going to answer basic questions what's the point of replying? This feels like you're just going to make childish remarks so you can have the last word.
 

Dion

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A lot of his criticism was about process. City/Liverpool have "an idea of how to play", and back the manager for that idea, United don't, that's the difference between them.
I don't think that's accurate at all, let alone insightful.
I think you only have to look at our choice of manager since SAF to see how evidently true that is. Moyes was very different from SAF, LvG was a world away from Moyes, Mourinho was the antithesis tactically of LvG, Solskjaer the polar opposite of Mourinho in terms of personality and methods. Now you have EtH who is completely different again. There's no continuity in that and no room for managerial failure.

Managers will inevitably fail, that shouldn't have been so destructive to our squad building as it has been.
 

Lyng

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It seems like a point has flown over your head.

You keep saying that United needed 10 players. At the end of the season, Rangnick was asked what kind of player United should buy. He said this:



Many if not most people would agree that Casemiro has been the most influential signing for United this season. Casemiro really does not fit this description. He did not come to United to "develop his career" or make "the next best step." He came to United at age 30 after winning 5 Champions League trophies, and got a very good contract.

You are telling us, "hey this doctor is good, he correctly figured out the patient needed surgery", and we are saying "yes, but the patient has kidney failure and the doctor did eye surgery on them."
Now we are talking about a different statement? You keep moving goal posts and waffling about.
I said he was correct about us needing 10 new players. Now you are talking about what kind of players he wanted? I never said I agreed with him on that so why bring that up?
 

stevoc

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If you're not going to answer basic questions what's the point of replying? This feels like you're just going to make childish remarks so you can have the last word.
If you asked me an on topic question I'd have answered it mate. As I said there was no point getting into a drawn out off topic waffle about semantics/delegation.

If you don't want to my answer question that's OK I understand. I think you now see that Rangnick wasn't brought in to take up any DOF, basically the DOF or de facto DOF role.
 

Dion

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If you asked me an on topic question I'd have answered it mate. As I said there was no point getting into a drawn out off topic waffle about semantics/delegation.

If you don't want to my answer question that's OK I understand. I think you now see that Rangnick wasn't brought in to take up any DOF, basically the DOF or de facto DOF role.
I'm sorry but we both know you don't get to decide which questions I get to ask, if you're not going to answer me then we can stop replying too each other. If you do me the curtesy of answering my question I'll be happy to answer yours, since the follow on from mine is relevant to the answer for yours.

If you want to persist avoiding my question and engaging in a disingenuous manner then please simply stop replying.
 

AlPistacho

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Are we dominant? Do we have a champions league winning side?

Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony and Wout have been added so far and we still need more.
How do we know we’re not in the CL and it’s only been 6 months! But we’ve beaten City, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, drew Vs Chelsea. M

I will ask you to look at it a different way. If SAF had retired last year. And this was the first season without him, would anyone be worrying or be seeing a huge drop of so far? No. The assessment would be only things we need might be 1 star forward and 1-2 good quality squad players.
 

stevoc

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I'm sorry but we both know you don't get to decide which questions I get to ask,
:lol:

Eh OK mate, no you're right. But just like you I get to decide which ones I answer.

if you're not going to answer me then we can stop replying too each other.
Great let's do that.
 

Dion

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:lol:

Eh OK mate, no you're right. But just like you I get to decide which ones I answer.

Great let's do that.
I am more than happy to answer yours, I've said as much. But my answer is predicated on you answering mine. Please don't attempt to tar me with the same brush.

But if you continue to refuse then please, stop replying.
 

stevoc

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I am more than happy to answer yours, I've said as much. But my answer is predicated on you answering mine. Please don't attempt to tar me with the same brush.

But if you continue to refuse then please, stop replying.
No you're alright mate, I don't care enough to continue this nonsense. Good night.
 

Mainoldo

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Now we are talking about a different statement? You keep moving goal posts and waffling about.
I said he was correct about us needing 10 new players. Now you are talking about what kind of players he wanted? I never said I agreed with him on that so why bring that up?
He can pluck many statements out, that’s his point. He wasn’t insightful he was saying what we all said on here.

He also said he recommended every player that other clubs brought in January.

Fans lost their shite.

However when you break it down he was just mentioning players that had signed for Big clubs after the board told him they didn’t see any value in the January market.

Basically it was all smoke and mirrors. We will/have been fine without his insight.
 

NewGlory

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Is it now safe to say something in this thread, or still better to stay away, until it's properly aired? :rolleyes:
 

AlPistacho

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I can understand Ole as a manager being divisive amongst the fan base. But can’t get why RR is. He’s reign literally had no effect on us. Wasn’t going to qualify for the CL that year with Ole, we didn’t with RR. If anything the positive is we went for an interim and are not stuck with Conte, or even a Poch. For once United are ahead of the curve.
 

NewGlory

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I can understand Ole as a manager being divisive amongst the fan base. But can’t get why RR is. He’s reign literally had no effect on us. Wasn’t going to qualify for the CL that year with Ole, we didn’t with RR. If anything the positive is we went for an interim and are not stuck with Conte, or even a Poch. For once United are ahead of the curve.
RR as manager and RR as recruiting consultant are not the same thing, my man. He was brilliant recruiting consultant, didn't work as an interim manager. Why he didn't work as interim is also a complicated subject but beyond the point in this context.
 

Lyng

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He can pluck many statements out, that’s his point. He wasn’t insightful he was saying what we all said on here.

He also said he recommended every player that other clubs brought in January.

Fans lost their shite.

However when you break it down he was just mentioning players that had signed for Big clubs after the board told him they didn’t see any value in the January market.

Basically it was all smoke and mirrors. We will/have been fine without his insight.
My point was not about all his statements, it was about the fact that several on here laughed at the notion that we needed 10 new players. And now when he has been proven right it was suddenly painfully obvious.

The guy was a terrible manager for us, but the way some on here talk about him is pretty silly.
 

SteveCoppellFan

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Are some people really still moaning about Rangnick ?

Right now, United fans have not been this optimistic in years and yet some will still find a way to moan about something.

By the way .. Rangnick was great :)
 

Mainoldo

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My point was not about all his statements, it was about the fact that several on here laughed at the notion that we needed 10 new players. And now when he has been proven right it was suddenly painfully obvious.

The guy was a terrible manager for us, but the way some on here talk about him is pretty silly.
Even that statement, in what context?

The people believing in that statement was talking about the first team. Our starting lineup says otherwise right now.
 

Lyng

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Even that statement, in what context?

The people believing in that statement was talking about the first team. Our starting lineup says otherwise right now.
Huh? I dont think so? 10 new players, no one talked about the first team. But even then its close. Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony. Thats four. On top of that most people agree we need to upgrade on the goalkeeper, one more CM and a striker. Thats seven, and then 3 more for depth.
 

Zen86

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Huh? I dont think so? 10 new players, no one talked about the first team. But even then its close. Casemiro, Martinez, Eriksen, Antony. Thats four. On top of that most people agree we need to upgrade on the goalkeeper, one more CM and a striker. Thats seven, and then 3 more for depth.
He could have picked any number he wanted and been “proven right”, we will inevitably make new signings over time. The suggestion was that we needed 10 new players to be in a decent position. As it were, we’re on the cusp of a title challenge having added 4.

The key piece was that we needed a manager that wasn’t as clueless as he was.
 

Lyng

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He could have picked any number he wanted and been “proven right”, we will inevitably make new signings over time. The suggestion was that we needed 10 new players to be in a decent position. As it were, we’re on the cusp of a title challenge having added 4.

The key piece was that we needed a manager that wasn’t as clueless as he was.
Well we added 4. Several users on here thought that simply adding a new manager we could challenge with the current team. That simply wasnt the case.

Like I have, repeatedly, said: he was a shite manager for us, but to some that simply isnt enough, which is weird.
 

Zen86

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Well we added 4. Several users on here thought that simply adding a new manager we could challenge with the current team. That simply wasnt the case.

Like I have, repeatedly, said: he was a shite manager for us, but to some that simply isnt enough, which is weird.
Nobody in their right mind would suggest we could challenge with last season's team.

The weird thing is people digging up this old thread and suggesting that he was in any way helpful/useful/insightful during his time here. He's like some prophetic intellect to a faction of users here. He wasn't.

And to think some people actually think he should be brought back :houllier:
 

andy0

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I can't see the point in going in too intensely to exactly how things happened and when.

It's only a couple more steps into this nostalgic imaginary renegotiation of the past to go back further and waffle about other things that never happened, and wonder why we didn't get Guardiola, or Ancelotti, or Klopp.

It's over. Or some of it never happened. Look forwards
 

Mainoldo

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Well we added 4. Several users on here thought that simply adding a new manager we could challenge with the current team. That simply wasnt the case.

Like I have, repeatedly, said: he was a shite manager for us, but to some that simply isnt enough, which is weird.
You see. Now your saying stuff you don’t believe.

The point is being proven that the manager is the most important element, like many have been saying for years.

Ralf gave me zero insight to what I already knew and could have said myself.

He’s in noway a football guru who was going to improve us. The stuff he actually really believed in wouldn’t have worked.

Haidara anyone?
 

fallengt

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Can you prove him wrong? 10 players to catch up with City and Liverpool last season (which was challenging for quintuple :) ). Until then I don't think anyone can.
 

Zen86

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Can you prove him wrong? 10 players to catch up with City and Liverpool last season (which was challenging for quintuple :) ). Until then I don't think anyone can.
We actually need 8 players to catch up to last season's City and Liverpool. Can you prove me wrong?
 

Lyng

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You see. Now your saying stuff you don’t believe.

The point is being proven that the manager is the most important element, like many have been saying for years.

Ralf gave me zero insight to what I already knew and could have said myself.

He’s in noway a football guru who was going to improve us. The stuff he actually really believed in wouldn’t have worked.

Haidara anyone?
Even with Ten Hag we wouldnt be where we are without upgrading on the likes of McT and Maguire....
 

Ish

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I'd say most in this thread are too extreme either side. It was clear as day some of the players weren't up to it but 10 new signings (assuming he meant "starters") is also an excuse and shows Rangnick trying to shift blame for his own failings/inability. His managerial career shows that he's never been capable of a "top job".

Truth is somewhere in the middle. Rangnick was basically handed an impossible situation - even moreso with Ronaldo seemingly untouchable and the entire dressing room being toxic/divided. A manager with "interim" title was always going to struggle changing the culture/winning the over the dressing room if he wasn't given the power to make changes. His role was rightfully terminated though and at best, at least his failings ultimately gave EtH "absolute" authority over the squad/players (neither upper management, nor fans were going to side with any of these players over EtH).
 

Lyng

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Nobody in their right mind would suggest we could challenge with last season's team.

The weird thing is people digging up this old thread and suggesting that he was in any way helpful/useful/insightful during his time here. He's like some prophetic intellect to a faction of users here. He wasn't.

And to think some people actually think he should be brought back :houllier:
I agree, yet several here where. Citing Ole's second place as some proof of that.

The guy who dug up this thread this time was simply to state that it was great we got rid of Rangnick, so many months after.

I will agree with you that wanting him back is mental.
 
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