Buffon, the only great player that I was lucky to watch his (pro?) debut, a clean-sheet 0-0. against AC Milan.
Buffon
Neuer
Casillas
Buffon
Neuer
Casillas
Rank Buffon, Casillas and Neuer
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Neuer
Buffon
Casillas
Buffon
Casillas
Schmeichel, Kahn, VDS, Cech comfortably rank higher than Casillas for me. I'd argue Alisson and Courtois likely will be considered better at the end of their careers as well.
Casillas was a great keeper but he was like peak DDG, insanely good reflexes and shot stopping but was he elite in other areas? I remember back in the say there was a lot of debate in the Spanish team about Reina & Canizares being better. Bit like how I'd say Pope is 100% a better overall keeper than Pickford right now.
Buffon
Neuer
Casillas
Neuer
Casillas
I’ll take Casillas trophy haul, Neuer’s actual goalkeeping style and buffons wife.
Going in tiers, I'd have Buffon at the top (with Yashin), Neuer in the second (alongside Schmeichel and Kahn and a few others), Casillas in a third tier with another 15-20 keepers.
Is Casillas even better than other top keepers of his time like Cech, VDS etc?
The top 3 keepers of my lifetime are Buffon, Neuer and Schmeichel, in no particular order.
Not sure Neuer revolutionized the sweeper keeper as much as some claim. Victor Valdes won UCLs with Barca before Neuer went to Bayern and he was average in the actual keeper disciplines. I think Neuer was just one of the first to came through and he was obviously the best at it.
For me, he's the all time best although I find keepers particularly hard to judge when you don't see them live week in week out. Buffon is definitely better than Casillas, though, based on what I've seen from both. Don't really know how they compare to Schmeichel, van der Sar, Cech and the likes or even Yashin.
For me, he's the all time best although I find keepers particularly hard to judge when you don't see them live week in week out. Buffon is definitely better than Casillas, though, based on what I've seen from both. Don't really know how they compare to Schmeichel, van der Sar, Cech and the likes or even Yashin.
It started long before Neuer - he credits VDS as being his main inspiration and he's like 15 years older than Neuer.
And he's a massive wanker
Yes, I even remember German TV commentators calling Neuer an "English type" keeper. You probably can go back even further, from what I've read the Cruyff teams in the 70s had a sweeper keeper as well. Anyway, I think Neuer simply belonged to the first generation in which it became hugely popular and he happened to be the best of them.
Agreed, no doubt you can find early redcaf threads on 'hipster' keepers who liked to use their feet, same way the Hennes graduate coaches were all 'hipster' managers until they started cleaning up trophies.
This. Have always viewed Casillas as one of the most overrated keepers ever, possibly at the top of said list, and that's not saying he was not a fantastic keeper... he clearly was. Could argue that in the late 2000s Reina deserved the top spot over Casillas but no way the Real man and Spanish darling was being replaced by a keeper playing in England. Could easily have been Reina earning all the accolades between 2008 and 2012.
I'd have Kahn and Schmeichel over him obviously. Also feel the likes of van der Sar is right there alongside and pre-head injury Cech was better than Casillas.
Barthez was doing this madness back in the 90s into the 2000s, often with disastrous results. Not helped by his smurf height either.
I think it's harsh to call Casillas overrated. His big game record is fantastic. He played his first champions league final as a teenager, won another one at the age of 21 and then was a rock for Spain as cleaned up the international trophies.
He never let his team's down in those big games and moments, and that in itself takes some nerve.
I don't think Casillas belongs in this conversation at all.
Buffon
Neuer
Casillas (quite a bit behind)
Neuer
Casillas (quite a bit behind)
I feel like Neuer had the higher peak than Buffon, but it always felt like Buffon was the much more likeable of the two.
He’s the best of his generation and maybe even the best of all time so far as sweeper keeper. But total football didn’t begin with Neuer. You can go all the way back to 50s-60s and still see great keepers playing that role. One can argue that likes of Grosics, Carrizo, Lev Yashin were the true pioneers of modern football goalkeepers. The list in this thread doesn’t even include Yashin who still remains to be the only goalkeeper to have won the Ballon D’Or. Even in modern football, I would argue that Valdes doesn’t get enough credit for his role in that Barcelona side which won absolutely everything.
He's a bit overrated as he's not really an equal to Buffon to whom he's often getting compared to. He's obviously one of the best keepers of all-time (I'd imagine that post would have him in their top-10 or thereabouts) – but that's not the same as being arguably the greatest of them all (and that's, generally, Yashin/Buffon/Neuer in order of preference).
You can argue that he was a bit lucky with how his career went but to be fair to him he always proved his worth at key moments so it's not like he was a passenger or anything.
as good a highlight reel as the others, and a better trophy cabinet. Please stop calling him overrated.
Agreed
He was good but always fancied teams would score past him
Where as the other two were dominant
That’s because it’s a highlight reel
wouldn’t be much of a highlight reel if it showed him being sub par
I don't think either post suggested that Neuer invented the complete goal keeper. But before Neuer the modern qualities were more or less seen as a gimmick, an eccentricity. You even brought up a prime example of this mindset in Valdes. Even in Neuer's earlier days you saw plenty of people say stuff like "why don't these idiots just lob the ball over him ,lol?, would never work in the Prem".
You could talk down just about anyone with that logic. Pep? Yeah, he's better than some older coaches at positional football, but in his era coaches are expected to do so. Also he's not that influential, because Cruyff was a pioneer of total football and also van Gaal is arguably underappreciated.
Neuer clear number one. Not sure why Casillas being mentioned.
This is fairly obvious to me.
Neuer
Buffon
Casillas
Neuer
Buffon
Casillas
Odd that Casillas is so underrated here.. especially since he came in clutch in UCL final, Euro's and WC final.
Imo, not one to be talked about in conversation for the goat GK's, but definitely in a top 10 ever.
Imo, not one to be talked about in conversation for the goat GK's, but definitely in a top 10 ever.
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This makes no sense. Surely if he’s in the top 10 goalkeepers to ever play football in over 150 years of the sport he is in the conversation for “goat GK’s”
feck Buffon
Marry Neuer
Kill Casillas
Marry Neuer
Kill Casillas
While I'm not saying this is the case here, it is entirely possible. For an extreme example, the 2nd best ice hockey player ever isn't in conversation for the GOAT because its Gretzky and there's not a conversation, the gap between the top 5 and the rest of the top 10 can be enough that you can be in thr top 10 but not in the GOAT conversationThis makes no sense. Surely if he’s in the top 10 goalkeepers to ever play football in over 150 years of the sport he is in the conversation for “goat GK’s”
Not really, the best of the best are recognized over others, especially the more time passes.This makes no sense. Surely if he’s in the top 10 goalkeepers to ever play football in over 150 years of the sport he is in the conversation for “goat GK’s”
Buffon and Neuer are on their tier of their own. Both are considered the top 5 goalkeepers of all time with the complete skill set. Buffon for his incredible longevity, shot-stopping skill, and perfectly reading of the game. For his complete skill set in the modern era of goalkeeping, Neuer is a perfect modern goalkeeper in his prime.
Casillas is a bit tier below, but he is still in the top 15 in an all-time scale. He achieves almost everything in football. He is incredible in terms of reflexes, and shot-stopping skills. He has some flaws that can be noticed easier than Buffon and Neuer.
1. Buffon= Neuer
2.Casillas
Casillas is a bit tier below, but he is still in the top 15 in an all-time scale. He achieves almost everything in football. He is incredible in terms of reflexes, and shot-stopping skills. He has some flaws that can be noticed easier than Buffon and Neuer.
1. Buffon= Neuer
2.Casillas
Agreed with a lot of what you’re saying. However, I see it as natural evolution of football where having a goalkeeper competent on the ball got more and more normalized. Neuer will rightly be regarded as one of the more important keepers in this evolution. But just before his time, Valdes doesn’t get remotely the same recognition. So my argument is just that other keepers were doing the Neuer role before Neuer, which helped him be more accepted. Just like Neuer paved the way for likes of Ederson and Alisson. It’s just evolution of the game.
Feels to me like Casillas is being judged by his dips in form or his notable decline rather than the keeper he was at his peak. Granted, in such company, it's a fair stick to beat him - or anyone else - with, but the tilt is over the top.
"What's he even being mentioned in the company of Buffon and Casillas for?" Well, because for a few seasons, he was the epitome of what was desired in a modern keeper of that time - before Neuer became the newer archetype - and if his whole career had played out as his peak seasons did, he'd be spoken about as possibly the best of them all. It didn't so it would seem even risible as a notion through the post-career lens, but that's how these things go.
"What's he even being mentioned in the company of Buffon and Casillas for?" Well, because for a few seasons, he was the epitome of what was desired in a modern keeper of that time - before Neuer became the newer archetype - and if his whole career had played out as his peak seasons did, he'd be spoken about as possibly the best of them all. It didn't so it would seem even risible as a notion through the post-career lens, but that's how these things go.
I wouldn’t say Buffon is being underrated as most have him here highly but I think it’s almost like a case of the Giggs where he was ‘past it’ for so long that it’s their memory of him more than his peak years. Buffon in the early 2000s was an insane keeper, close to perfection if not groundbreaking like Neuer.
Love watching Neuer, in fact I would say he should have won the 2014 Ballon d’Or only awards voters seem to have a thing against keepers/defenders, but Buffon at his peak was more reliable than Neuer. Neuer could throw in some wobblers every so often. Quite like Schmeichel that way. Overall though their proactiveness was still way more worth it than a reactive keeper like De Gea. But young Buffon had the balance right. Longevity is amazing but also kinda sad in a way to watch him in his mid-40s make the mistakes he used to never make.
Love watching Neuer, in fact I would say he should have won the 2014 Ballon d’Or only awards voters seem to have a thing against keepers/defenders, but Buffon at his peak was more reliable than Neuer. Neuer could throw in some wobblers every so often. Quite like Schmeichel that way. Overall though their proactiveness was still way more worth it than a reactive keeper like De Gea. But young Buffon had the balance right. Longevity is amazing but also kinda sad in a way to watch him in his mid-40s make the mistakes he used to never make.
Yep, good post. Steam was starting to come out of my ears with some people rating Casillas as equal or better than Schmeichel. Mental stuff.
Top three of my lifetime too, Buffon, Schmeichel and Neuer. Again, no particular order. But those three stand head and shoulders above the rest.
Casillas is that keeper who did what he was required to do and not let easy goals go in. Neuer consistently at his peak stopped shots that beats 95% percent of keepers.
this is how I rate keepers. De Gea let’s in too many stupid goals to ever belong in this conversation and he can stop shots that beats 90% of keepers somewhat frequently, but will just stay on his line for crosses and corners and but all the defense under duress.
That is the definition of a professional goalkeeper, bar exceptions.
Neuer is probably the greatest of all time. Brilliant at pretty much every single aspect of goalkeeping, including the sweeping and distribution that is so important for teams today. Because of how aggressive he was in his play he did occasionally get caught out, but that is always going to happen for keepers who are expected to bring so much to the team as a whole. Basically the prototype of what almost all managers want in their goalkeeper today.
Buffon had ridiculous longevity, but personally I always found him slightly over-rated. I'd say there was only one point in his career that he had a claim on being the best in the world (in the early 00's in the first few years after joining Juventus), and even then I don't think his peak was as high as a few others have had. For the rest of his career he was a very good keeper, but there were always others that were better. Not a perfect comparison, but similar to how Giggs was for us. Obviously a legend but not really a GOAT for me.
Casillas isn't even close to the other two. As others have said, there have been a number of keepers in the last 25 years who were better.
Buffon had ridiculous longevity, but personally I always found him slightly over-rated. I'd say there was only one point in his career that he had a claim on being the best in the world (in the early 00's in the first few years after joining Juventus), and even then I don't think his peak was as high as a few others have had. For the rest of his career he was a very good keeper, but there were always others that were better. Not a perfect comparison, but similar to how Giggs was for us. Obviously a legend but not really a GOAT for me.
Casillas isn't even close to the other two. As others have said, there have been a number of keepers in the last 25 years who were better.