Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and Ronaldo

[genardk]

The reality is Portugal has never been a contender to win World Cup as much as the big guns like Germany, Italy or Brazil. They are tier 2 team at most on international level, maybe even tier 3 for a lot of time.

Portugal have won only two trophies in their entire history and guess what, both were during Ronaldo's era. To count not winning World Cup against Ronaldo's legacy then is clutching at strews. Portugal have achieved their best results during his time.

Yeah, still with major trophies only counted, Ronaldo had a lot more. This comparison has no base at all. We aren't saying Ronaldo is one of the top 5 in history just because he scored a lot of goals and that's it. He's more than that.

The guy failed at the biggest stage 5 times in 5 WCs, not a single goal + assist in 8 games when it matters most.. beyond terrible for someone who is considered one of the greatest players ever.. worse than Stoichkov who did more in a single WC with Bulgaria than Ronaldo in 5 WCs.. You can add Suker, Hagi, Modric, Forlan etc. etc. etc. Tons of players playing for equally strong or worse teams than Portugal did better than Ronaldo in the WCs, even the most ardent Ronaldo fans will not defend his embarrassing record in the WCs as they are obsessed with his CL knock-out stats..

The common point for all time greats is the same they all shined in a WC, the biggest stage... It is not about winning the WC either, it is about leaving your mark there just like Baggio, Stoichkov, Hagi, James Rodrigues, Suker, Forlan, Platini etc even if your team is eliminated in the QFs or semis..

 

[antohan]

Golden Ball and joint top scorer

 

[abundance]

The reality is Portugal has never been a contender to win World Cup as much as the big guns like Germany, Italy or Brazil. They are tier 2 team at most on international level, maybe even tier 3 for a lot of time.

Portugal have won only two trophies in their entire history and guess what, both were during Ronaldo's era. To count not winning World Cup against Ronaldo's legacy then is clutching at strews. Portugal have achieved their best results during his time.

Yeah, still with major trophies only counted, Ronaldo had a lot more. This comparison has no base at all. We aren't saying Ronaldo is one of the top 5 in history just because he scored a lot of goals and that's it. He's more than that.

The reality is that all our exchange was about is:

I don't get the Gerd Muller comparison. Ronaldo's trophy cabinet is far bigger it is not even a contest.

which I mantain is a silly opinion, as 20 major trophies vs 14 major trophies including a WC seems a pretty fair cabinet contest to me.


If we want to change the subject to evaluating the WC career of Ronaldo, that's a different matter altogether, and others are already answering.
I'd just add that I don't subscribe to the narrative of Portugal being a minnow.

 

[wangyu]

What’s shady about the 86 victory? And the 22 victory?

I want a real answer not the bs it about Maradona’s handball when England should have been down to 10 for kicking him long before that goal.

They played better than the opposition almost the entire time during these 2 competition. They scored goals and created a shitload of chances in every single game.

Well if that handball is not shady for you then we are done talking I guess. In the semi final Belgium got done by when they were clear through on goal but were flagged offside. But yeah I think perhaps the standard of refereeing was just bad, it often is at world cups. There was for sure more allowed back then so it is hard to compare in fairness.

2022 had at least 3 penalties that were so lightweight that it got completely ridiculous. In the end maybe it doesn’t matter as I do think Argentina deserved it most. I’m happy I was able to see a ridiculously good final. These penalties would never have been whistled in the 60s or 80s.

But now that I said this I don’t wish to discuss this any further as it is pointless and I don’t want to come across as bitter because like I said earlier I think Argentina was the best team overall. I also want to say that for the first time since very long it were the absolute superstars that dominated the world cup. Mbappe and Messi both played fantastic football and got the stats to show it off.

 

[wangyu]

Bad games can happen to anyone.
It's quite clear that you never actually watched Pele and are assuming based on hearsay. What I am trying to highlight is that while Pele was the best of his era, the way people try to speak about him as being some sort of superman is not true. They have created a myth and these matches show that it wasn't always perfect even at the word cup.

I watched all his world cup 70 games online. Yes there is huge hyperbole which is the same for Messi. When his teams win a game and Messi does ‘t score but gives the assist or even pre assist the press will highlight Messi’s contribution and only then the goalscorer.

How can they create a myth when the stats speak for itself? I think as a rough guess maybe 25% of Pele footage survived time, based on that 25% color me hugely impressed, I saw no weaknesses. What he did with a heavy football with heavy boots it was remarkable. I will ask you how come we never see beautifully curled free kicks in old footage? Because it was almost impossible to put spin on the ball. That is the kind of equipment these guys had to deal with, of course football is going to be slower when the ball is heavy. Players were not protected, red cards were rare, hard tackles were normal, substitutions almost neber happened, you’re injured? Too bad, keep playing. With the treatment Pele got I don’t doubt he often had to play through a lot of pain.

I simply cannot understand how so many young people fail to acknowledge Pele as a football powerhouse. I never said he was perfect, nobody does so. Messi isn’t perfect either.
I think there is a lack of respect when it comes to Pele because he comes from an old era. Maradona never gets this treatment. I tell you what. Pele was the biggest of his era, he was so good that nobody ever spoke about the players before the world wars again. He then got competition from the likes of Best, Cruyff, Platini, Maradona, Zico. All of them ridiculously fantastic football players, he survived these as well, people were all comparing them to Pele. Fast forward to the 2000s till now and people are still discussing whether Pele was the best player of all time. He was that good. You don’t survive 50 years of football history and still be called the greatest without actually being you know simply magnificent.

I stand by my choice Pele is nr 1 and Messi is nr 2 and if Maradona had won more at club level and was more of a prolific goalscorer I would have placed him above Messi. But I give credit where credit is due, Messi did it all, won it all and was just like the other two simply unstoppable. It is a matter of very fine margins.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Alrite I see you went straight from "let's flex trophy cabinets" to "football is a team sport".

I approve, for what is worth.

I mean, football is about winning, and by winning many important trophies you sculpt your name in football history, but going too much accountant-ish on that doesn't really add much to discussions on who was the better guy.

Also because the difference between triumph and dust is so often such a thin veil.

(I mean, right now half the world is farting rainbows on Messi finally proving he's the goatest of all goats and nobody talks about little Kylian.
But, all it would've taken for the world to dismiss Messi forever as an also ran in the goat race, while hailing Mbappe as already better than Pelé, is a couple of different teammates of them shitting or not shitting their pants while kicking a single ball 11 metres in front of the goal after 120 minutes of battle.
Really, that's all that separates two completely different historical "truths")

Football absolutely is a team sport in every way. It's only for the silly 'narrative' that Messi needed a WC. That and of course like any player he wants to bring joy and glory to his country/countrymen. This whole mindless trophy dick waving contest across a span of 60 years is hilarious though.

 

[el3mel]

An invented stat?!?! Hilarious. KO goals have more value because if you lose you get knocked out. That's usually not the case with group stage games

So scoring a hattrick against Spain for example does not matter because it was in group stage and not KO stage apparently.

Without these goals Portugal wouldn't have even reached these KO stages you are talking about to start with.

Again, such an invented and forced stat.

 

[el3mel]

The reality is that all our exchange was about is:

which I mantain is a silly opinion, as 20 major trophies vs 14 major trophies including a WC seems a pretty fair cabinet contest to me.


If we want to change the subject to evaluating the WC career of Ronaldo, that's a different matter altogether, and others are already answering.
I'd just add that I don't subscribe to the narrative of Portugal being a minnow.

What's the point of this comparison when Ronaldo has more trophies, more individual award and even more goals? What did you prove with it exactly?

You subscribing to the idea or not does not really matter though, as it's you personal opinion. The facts are :

A) Portugal have reached World Cup semi final only twice in their history, one in 1966 and the next one didn't happen till 2006.

B) Portugal reached Euro final only twice in their history, in 2004 and 2016, winning the latter.

C) Portugal have only won two trophies in their history, Euro 2016 and the Uefa nations league in 2019.

Guess what, apart from the 3rd place finish in World Cup 1966, all of these happened during Ronaldo's era in the team. That pretty much can be considered their best period in history.

So yeah, Portugal are simply 2nd tier at best on the world stage.

 

[el3mel]

I think it's fair to say it is tougher for Portugal to win the World Cup but Ronaldo has not even played well at a World Cup. I've said this before but look at Modric winning the golden ball and leading Croatia to 2nd and 3rd place finishes at the World Cup. And Croatia is half the size of Portugal. You can make excuses for Ronaldo all you like but he has underperformed on the biggest stage at it will always be held against him. I'm sorry but those are the facts.

I do agree that Modric had better showing in World Cup than Ronaldo, not arguing that.

I'm not making excuses for Ronaldo, he doesn't need it. I'm replying on the point that Muller won World Cup and not Ronaldo? As for the goals in WC, all of them matter, group stage or KO or anything.

 

[AndySmith1990]

...

(I mean, right now half the world is farting rainbows on Messi finally proving he's the goatest of all goats and nobody talks about little Kylian.
But, all it would've taken for the world to dismiss Messi forever as an also ran in the goat race, while hailing Mbappe as already better than Pelé, is a couple of different teammates of them shitting or not shitting their pants while kicking a single ball 11 metres in front of the goal after 120 minutes of battle.
Really, that's all that separates two completely different historical "truths")


...

All I would take from that is that humans are capable of incredible levels of stupidity, and not everyone's opinion is of any value

 

[Andrade]

So scoring a hattrick against Spain for example does not matter because it was in group stage and not KO stage apparently.































































Without these goals Portugal wouldn't have even reached these KO stages you are talking about to start with.































































Again, such an invented and foRced stat

Yes they don't matter. Every iconic

So scoring a hattrick against Spain for example does not matter because it was in group stage and not KO stage apparently.



Without these goals Portugal wouldn't have even reached these KO stages you are talking about to start with.



Again, such an invented and forced stat.

Yes they don't matter. Every iconic goal and moment in World Cup history occurred in the knockout stages. Ask yourself why that is.

 

[Andrade]

I do agree that Modric had better showing in World Cup than Ronaldo, not arguing that.



I'm not making excuses for Ronaldo, he doesn't need it. I'm replying on the point that Muller won World Cup and not Ronaldo? As for the goals in WC, all of them matter, group stage or KO or anything.

See my previous post. No one remembers group stage goals.

 

[Andrade]

What's the point of this comparison when Ronaldo has more trophies, more individual award and even more goals? What did you prove with it exactly?



You subscribing to the idea or not does not really matter though, as it's you personal opinion. The facts are :



A) Portugal have reached World Cup semi final only twice in their history, one in 1966 and the next one didn't happen till 2006.



B) Portugal reached Euro final only twice in their history, in 2004 and 2016, winning the latter.



C) Portugal have only won two trophies in their history, Euro 2016 and the Uefa nations league in 2019.



Guess what, apart from the 3rd place finish in World Cup 1966, all of these happened during Ronaldo's era in the team. That pretty much can be considered their best period in history.



So yeah, Portugal are simply 2nd tier at best on the world stage.

So much that is wrong here contextually, it beggars belief. First of all, Portugal's recent success began with their so-called 'golden generation', not Ronaldo. They qualified for the World Cup for the third time in their history in 2002 (after 66 and 86). Ronaldo was not in the team. Then the Euros in 2004 and the WC in 2006 was all about that special group of players led by Figo, Deco etc, not Ronaldo. Ronaldo gets credit for the Euros in 2016 (though he was hardly spectacular) a d the Nations League in 2019 (though I don't think it is a real tournament) but please stop trying to frame it as all being about Ronaldo in the past 20 years. That's disingenuous at best and fanboyish at worst.

 

[Zehner]

Scoring in KO stages is just an invented stat to get one against Ronaldo it's ridiculous. I didn't realize goals in tournaments are different if they are scored in group stage vs scored in a KO stage.

Even with major trophies only counted, Ronaldo had 20 vs Muller's 14.

While I generally agree that is kind of a stupid metric, I find this post particularly funny because for years, the CR7 supporters on this board kept pointing towards Cristiano's superior goal record in the KO stages of the UCL to argue why he is more clutch, more decisive, the better big game performer and what not. So this is hardly an "invented stat against Ronaldo". Currently you're just defeated by your own weapons

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

So scoring a hattrick against Spain for example does not matter because it was in group stage and not KO stage apparently.

Without these goals Portugal wouldn't have even reached these KO stages you are talking about to start with.

Again, such an invented and forced stat.

If you want another stat then, Spain was the only game he truly shone in out of 22 games at 5 world cups across 16 years. He failed to score in 16 World Cup games. His group and KO stage goal record is only 8 in 22, a goal average of 0.36 per game.

That puts him worse goal per game than Lukaku, Shaqiri, Suarez, Larsson, Robben, Zidane, T Muller, Gyan, Cahill, Forlan, Neymar, Klose, Kane, Villa, Tomasson, Valencia, Mbappé just to name just a few modern World Cup players.

 

[Lay]

Cristiano missed a vital penalty in that group stage. Probably cost the going further by missing the penalty and drawing Uruguay rather than Russia

 

[Andrade]

Cristiano missed a vital penalty in that group stage. Probably cost the going further by missing the penalty and drawing Uruguay rather than Russia

Was that against Iran? Yes, that was a major reason that they were eliminated in the round of 16.

 

[Andrade]

If you want another stat then, Spain was the only game he truly shone in out of 22 games at 5 world cups across 16 years. He failed to score in 16 World Cup games. His group and KO stage goal record is only 8 in 22, a goal average of 0.36 per game.



That puts him worse goal per game than Lukaku, Shaqiri, Suarez, Larsson, Robben, Zidane, T Muller, Gyan, Cahill, Forlan, Neymar, Klose, Kane, Villa, Tomasson, Valencia, Mbappé just to name just a few modern World Cup players.

This is perhaps a better way of putting it. He has not been good in the World Cup and that hurts his case when we are talking about the very best of all time.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Club career:


1) Messi & Pelé
3) Maradonna / Ronaldo

International career:
1) Maradonna & Pelé
-)
3) Messi
4) Ronaldo

Ronaldo has more club goals than Pele while never playing outside Europe (whereas Pele did spent his last few seasons in the US)

Ronaldo's trophy case is also far better than Pele as winning 5 CLs trumps winning 2 Libertadores

And quite obviously Ronaldo did do all that in more competitive leagues. Now don't hit me with the "Brazilian leagues were the best back then" argument because even if that were true there is no way a league that's made up of >90% Brazilian players could be as competitive as modern PL/Liga/Serie A which have the best players from all around the world and not just one country

Obviously everything I've said apply to Maradona too. Putting his club career on the same level as Ronaldo's is insanity

 

[Lay]

Ronaldo has more club goals than Pele while never playing outside Europe (whereas Pele did spent his last few seasons in the US)

Ronaldo's trophy case is also far better than Pele as winning 5 CLs trumps winning 2 Libertadores

And quite obviously Ronaldo did do all that in more competitive leagues. Now don't hit me with the "Brazilian leagues were the best back then" argument because even if that were true there is no way a league that's made up of >90% Brazilian players could be as competitive as modern PL/Liga/Serie A which have the best players from all around the world and not just one country

Obviously everything I've said apply to Maradona too. Putting his club career on the same level as Ronaldo's is insanity

Santos didn’t always register for the Libertadores due to the amount of games they had planned against European teams. So Pele probably would have won a lot more

 

[Krakenzero]

Ronaldo has more club goals than Pele while never playing outside Europe (whereas Pele did spent his last few seasons in the US)

Pelé has 20 less official goals while having played 220 less official games. So his average is actually better (not even considering his 400 something unofficial goals).

Ronaldo's trophy case is also far better than Pele as winning 5 CLs trumps winning 2 Libertadores

Pelé won 2 Libertadores out of the 3 he played. Cristiano Ronaldo won 5 UCL out of the 21 he played.

And quite obviously Ronaldo did do all that in more competitive leagues. Now don't hit me with the "Brazilian leagues were the best back then" argument because even if that were true there is no way a league that's made up of >90% Brazilian players could be as competitive as modern PL/Liga/Serie A which have the best players from all around the world and not just one country

The players that won the WC 3 out of 4 times in that era played only in Brazil. Santos did play the Intercontinental Cup twice in Pelé era, against Eusebio's Benfica and Rivera and Altafini's AC Milan. He played 3 matches, scored 7 goals, and went home with both trophies. Unless you refer to Santos not defeating modern clubs with players that hadn't been born yet.

 

[Isafim]

The guy failed at the biggest stage 5 times in 5 WCs, not a single goal + assist in 8 games when it matters most.. beyond terrible for someone who is considered one of the greatest players ever.. worse than Stoichkov who did more in a single WC with Bulgaria than Ronaldo in 5 WCs.. You can add Suker, Hagi, Modric, Forlan etc. etc. etc. Tons of players playing for equally strong or worse teams than Portugal did better than Ronaldo in the WCs, even the most ardent Ronaldo fans will not defend his embarrassing record in the WCs as they are obsessed with his CL knock-out stats..

The common point for all time greats is the same they all shined in a WC, the biggest stage... It is not about winning the WC either, it is about leaving your mark there just like Baggio, Stoichkov, Hagi, James Rodrigues, Suker, Forlan, Platini etc even if your team is eliminated in the QFs or semis..

"equally strong or worse teams than Portugal" really? The only strong team in Portugal was 2006. In 2010 and 2014 he had to play Quaresma, Postiga, Eder and the like. Not to mention that he was not well physically in both 2010 and 2014. The only cup in which he was physically well was in 2018, but then the team was shite and now that the team was good in 2022 it is old and not even close to what it used to be

 

[Andrade]

Ronaldo has more club goals than Pele while never playing outside Europe (whereas Pele did spent his last few seasons in the US)



Ronaldo's trophy case is also far better than Pele as winning 5 CLs trumps winning 2 Libertadores



And quite obviously Ronaldo did do all that in more competitive leagues. Now don't hit me with the "Brazilian leagues were the best back then" argument because even if that were true there is no way a league that's made up of >90% Brazilian players could be as competitive as modern PL/Liga/Serie A which have the best players from all around the world and not just one country



Obviously everything I've said apply to Maradona too. Putting his club career on the same level as Ronaldo's is insanity

So much wrong here. First of all, Pele only played in the Copa Libertadores 3 times and won 2 of them. I think that's a better ratio than 5 in 20 or whatever CR's win percentage is in the CL. Also, the Brazilian leagues were indeed strong but the key point is that Pele had no natural advantage with Santos in terms of finance. The club sides that CR played for are extremely expensive superteams that cost more than the rest of their domestic leagues combined. So you're not really comparing apples with apples. I've just had people trying to defend Ronaldo because he apparently had no decent teammates at international level: the same energy should then be kept when he is able to play on billion euro squads at club level and consequently has a much better goal ratio for club than for country (for Pele it is the same).

 

[genardk]

"equally strong or worse teams than Portugal" really? The only strong team in Portugal was 2006. In 2010 and 2014 he had to play Quaresma, Postiga, Eder and the like. Not to mention that he was not well physically in both 2010 and 2014. The only cup in which he was physically well was in 2018, but then the team was shite and now that the team was good in 2022 it is old and not even close to what it used to be

This is coping at best. The guy failed to produce at the top level in 5 WCs.. there's no ifs or buts, this or that, he simply failed.. He even failed to go past USA in 2014 in the group stage.. This was the same excuse in 2016 EC, that his team was weak/shit, and that supposedly weak team won the final against France in Paris without him so that he can get all the credit though he was not even his team's best player..

Portugal was not weaker than Turkey in 2002, Bulgaria/Romania in 1994, Colombia in 2018, Uruguay in 2014.. Croatia in 2018/2022 was not stronger than Portugal and see what they did with Modric..

And, people are not even talking about how he failed to elevate Portugal to new heights.. They are talking about his abysmal knock-out round performance.. There are tons of players who played for mediocre teams who scored or assisted in the knock-out stage in a single WC while Ronaldo could not in 5 WCs. Let me give you an example, even in this WC, we had Maeda from Japan, Paik-Seung Ho from Korea, Guerreiro, Leao from Portugal, Wright from the US, Lewandowski from Poland, Akanji from Switzerland, En-Nesyri from Morocco, Weghorst, Blind, Depay from Holland and many others doing what Ronaldo could not do in 5 WCs, a single goal in the knock-out rounds..Ronaldo is not even a top 100 WC-player.. That's a embarrassing..

 

[abundance]

All I would take from that is that humans are capable of incredible levels of stupidity, and not everyone's opinion is of any value

Pardon the dumb question, is that a diss or an "amen to that"? =D

 

[el3mel]

So much that is wrong here contextually, it beggars belief. First of all, Portugal's recent success began with their so-called 'golden generation', not Ronaldo. They qualified for the World Cup for the third time in their history in 2002 (after 66 and 86). Ronaldo was not in the team. Then the Euros in 2004 and the WC in 2006 was all about that special group of players led by Figo, Deco etc, not Ronaldo. Ronaldo gets credit for the Euros in 2016 (though he was hardly spectacular) a d the Nations League in 2019 (though I don't think it is a real tournament) but please stop trying to frame it as all being about Ronaldo in the past 20 years. That's disingenuous at best and fanboyish at worst.

You're replying on an imaginary point. No one said Ronaldo was the one who led this success, you can't bring one sentence in my post that says that. I'm saying Portugal isn't a big team, they don't have that much success in their history and their best results all came in recent time during Ronaldo's era, so to claim Portugal not winning World Cup as something that hurts Ronaldo's legacy is a bunch of nonsense. Portugal aren't expected to win World Cup, they literally reached the semi final twice in their history. On paper, Portugal achieved the best they could have done during Ronaldo's period with the team.

 

[el3mel]

While I generally agree that is kind of a stupid metric, I find this post particularly funny because for years, the CR7 supporters on this board kept pointing towards Cristiano's superior goal record in the KO stages of the UCL to argue why he is more clutch, more decisive, the better big game performer and what not. So this is hardly an "invented stat against Ronaldo". Currently you're just defeated by your own weapons

That's if I'm the one said that though. You're bringing other people's opinions to be used against mine.

All goals matter for me.

 

[That_Bloke]

Guys, you're overthinking this:

Pelé - 4 times in the WC, 3 wins.
Maradona - 4 times, 1 win.
Messi - 5 times, 1 win.
C.Ronaldo - 5 times, 0 win.

Easy. We can count the goals and assists per game too if you want.

Time for you to understand that football is a bit more than that.

 

[That_Bloke]

The reality is Portugal has never been a contender to win World Cup as much as the big guns like Germany, Italy or Brazil. They are tier 2 team at most on international level, maybe even tier 3 for a lot of time.

Portugal have won only two trophies in their entire history and guess what, both were during Ronaldo's era. To count not winning World Cup against Ronaldo's legacy then is clutching at strews. Portugal have achieved their best results during his time.

Yeah, still with major trophies only counted, Ronaldo had a lot more. This comparison has no base at all. We aren't saying Ronaldo is one of the top 5 in history just because he scored a lot of goals and that's it. He's more than that.

I agree with most of what you're advocating but I think that the reason why people don't put him in the same category as the three others, is that he never had an international tournament were he truly was the best player by a distance. Like Pelé in 1958 and 1970, Maradona in 1986 and now Messi in 2021(Copa) and 2022 (aged 35). As far as I know, he never received the accolade in any international tournament he played in and/or never was seen as such. Not even in the Euro 2016.

 

[Andrade]

You're replying on an imaginary point. No one said Ronaldo was the one who led this success, you can't bring one sentence in my post that says that. I'm saying Portugal isn't a big team, they don't have that much success in their history and their best results all came in recent time during Ronaldo's era, so to claim Portugal not winning World Cup as something that hurts Ronaldo's legacy is a bunch of nonsense. Portugal aren't expected to win World Cup, they literally reached the semi final twice in their history. On paper, Portugal achieved the best they could have done during Ronaldo's period with the team.

Rubbish. Your point has already been thoroughly debunked, though you refuse to accept it. Irrespective of winning or not winning the World Cup, HE HAS NOT PLAYED WELL. Numerous examples have been given to you of players from small countries who have played well (Modric, Eusebio etc ) but you just ignore that because it proves beyond doubt that you are trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[el3mel]

Rubbish. Your point has already been thoroughly debunked, though you refuse to accept it. Irrespective of winning or not winning the World Cup, HE HAS NOT PLAYED WELL. Numerous examples have been given to you of players from small countries who have played well (Modric, Eusebio etc ) but you just ignore that because it proves beyond doubt that you are trying to defend the indefensible.

I like how you invent points out of your mind, reply on them, then claim the response is rubbish.

I already agreed Modric had better showing in World Cup than Ronaldo so when did I ignored that? Stop replying on imaginary posts.

 

[Lord SInister]

Scoring in KO stages is just an invented stat to get one against Ronaldo it's ridiculous.

Invented by some Ronaldo fans to discredit Messi in UCL , how the table has turned.

 

[Swoobs]

Invented by some Ronaldo fans to discredit Messi in UCL , how the table has turned.

Invented to prove “clutchness”, guess not so clutch anymore

 

[Andrade]

I like how you invent points out of your mind, reply on them, then claim the response is rubbish.



I already agreed Modric had better showing in World Cup than Ronaldo so when did I ignored that? Stop replying on imaginary posts.

You ignored it by saying that everyone is talking about him having to win the World Cup when that's not what I said. I and others were focusing on his PERFORMANCES at the tournament, which have been poor. Admit that, and we might be getting somewhere.

 

[Bole Top]

Portugal aren't expected to win World Cup, they literally reached the semi final twice in their history.

you know it doesn't work like that. it's football, not Age of Empires.

when you're at required level, nobody cares where you were 100 years ago. there are no realistic expectations from Uruguay today even though they are 2 times world champions, yet there were certain expectations from Belgium recently given their talent and players. it's normal and it's the same with Portugal who had an excellent team in recent years and were expected to compete in last 3 tournaments.

"but he plays for Portugal" argument meant nothing in recent years when they were in top 5 European teams or when they were ranked 4th on official FIFA rankings. they aren't a minnow and he had a very good team behind him.

your line of reasoning simply have zero sense. did you also expect Sweden to win Davis Cup in recent history because they won it with Bjorn Borg 50 years ago? or were you expecting teams with Nadal, Federer and Djokovic to win it despite their national teams not winning anything before those players emerged? seriously.

 

[Gehrman]

Its funny how some Ronnie fanatics to recognize its a team game when it comes to Portugal but not for Man Utd(first time around) and Real Madrid. But anyway i know not all hardcore ronnie are like that. Despite not rocking up the WC and the euros like some of the greats have he still the top international scorer of all time. It counts for something just not say as Platini's euro or Maradona's WC.

 

[el3mel]

You ignored it by saying that everyone is talking about him having to win the World Cup when that's not what I said. I and others were focusing on his PERFORMANCES at the tournament, which have been poor. Admit that, and we might be getting somewhere.

I didn't ignore it. I acknowledged Mordic had better World Cup performance than Ronaldo. The argument about winning World Cup started when people said Gurd Muller had World Cup in his pocket unlike Ronaldo, which is an irrelevant comparison.

Focusing on the flaws of a single tournament and ignoring the rest of what the player achieved is clutching at strews. It's no different from people arguing Pep didn't succeed with City because he didn't CL, basically clutching at strews to prove a point.

you know it doesn't work like that. it's football, not Age of Empires.

when you're at required level, nobody cares where you were 100 years ago. there are no realistic expectations from Uruguay today even though they are 2 times world champions, yet there were certain expectations from Belgium recently given their talent and players. it's normal and it's the same with Portugal who had an excellent team in recent years and were expected to compete in last 3 tournaments.

"but he plays for Portugal" argument meant nothing in recent years when they were in top 5 European teams or when they were ranked 4th on official FIFA rankings. they aren't a minnow and he had a very good team behind him.

your line of reasoning simply have zero sense. did you also expect Sweden to win Davis Cup in recent history because they won it with Bjorn Borg 50 years ago? or were you expecting teams with Nadal, Federer and Djokovic to win it despite their national teams not winning anything before those players emerged? seriously.

Portugal haven't entered a single tournament as a favorite to win it in recent times, and that even includes the Euro they won.

To hold Portugal not winning the World Cup against any player from their generation is absolutely ridiculous.

And if you're claiming they have ton of talents or excellent team that were expected to compete, it means the fault of the team's failure lies in the manager.

Unless you're claiming Ronaldo is the reason of the failure of this "excellent" team ?

Either it's the manager's fault for not getting the best out of this "excellent" team or the fact that while Portugal had a good team, most other teams around them were just far better, which is logical and makes sense.

 

[el3mel]

Invented by some Ronaldo fans to discredit Messi in UCL , how the table has turned.

Don't care, I'm not the one who invented that to start with. All goals matter.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Champions League GOAT ----- CR7
World Cup GOAT --------------------Pele
League GOAT--------------------------Messi
Most Clutch Player Ever---------Maradona


That's how I see it. Ranking them is stupid as they are/were completely different players from different eras. It's like comparing Cressida with the latest Corolla. Corolla would be loaded with new features, but those technologies didn't exist at the time of Cressida.

 

[Andrade]

I didn't ignore it. I acknowledged Mordic had better World Cup performance than Ronaldo. The argument about winning World Cup started when people said Gurd Muller had World Cup in his pocket unlike Ronaldo, which is an irrelevant comparison.



Focusing on the flaws of a single tournament and ignoring the rest of what the player achieved is clutching at strews. It's no different from people arguing Pep didn't succeed with City because he didn't CL, basically clutching at strews to prove a point.







Portugal haven't entered a single tournament as a favorite to win it in recent times, and that even includes the Euro they won.



To hold Portugal not winning the World Cup against any player from their generation is absolutely ridiculous.



And if you're claiming they have ton of talents or excellent team that were expected to compete, it means the fault of the team's failure lies in the manager.



Unless you're claiming Ronaldo is the reason of the failure of this "excellent" team ?



Either it's the manager's fault for not getting the best out of this "excellent" team or the fact that while Portugal had a good team, most other teams around them were just far better, which is logical and makes sense.

Still can't admit that Ronaldo has been poor in the World Cup. Sad to see. And it's not just 'one tournament', it's the biggest tournament in football by a country mile.

Yes Gerd Muller has a WC and Ronaldo doesn't, but if you think that's irrelevant, how about the fact that he's scored more goals than he's played games in the tournament whilst Ronaldo hasn't even managed a goal every other game? Oh that right, his teammates are so terrible that it's absolutely impossible for him yo score goals in the World Cup, despite the fact that he is the leading goalscorer in the history of men's international football. Dunno why his teammates enable him to score so many goals in other international games and then just stop helping him at the World Cup. Bizarre.

Not sure why you're bringing up Pep. He's won the CL twice and arguably with the best ever CL team. He's trying to win it with two different teams, and you can count on the fingers of one hand the guys who have done that. Nevertheless, it has no relevance here.