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2023-24 Performances


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acid_fuji

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Yeah just ship off £100m worth of talent and pay what another £150-200m to replace them. No worries, United have unlimited transfer funds. It's not like we're struggling with FFP or anything.
None of them is showing any talent on pitch lately.
 

Remember the geese

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Perhaps but that's what I'm worried about. We haven't even completed the current rebuild and it looks like we'll be embarking upon another one in the near future. Not least because the manager it seems keeps falling out with players.

Going into this season we still needed a top RB, a top CB and another striker. Now we might need to replace all of Sancho, Varane and Casemiro on top of that.

Don't know about you but I don't see United spending £350-500m in one window.
The word "rebuild" is a little like the word "transition" in the sense that it is often parroted to hide from the fact that we are incompetent and a bit naff these days. Also, it's impossible to have a successful rebuild if we don't have the right decision makers in place in terms of recruitment. Hopefully, we can achieve this under Ratcliffe and actually have a successful rebuild for the first time in over a decade.

I think we will spend significantly. Centre back and centre mid are two areas that will be prioritised. Obviously we need another striker too, but outside of that, it's just a matter of how much longer the footballing department will want to give to the likes of Dalot and Antony. Sancho is an irrelevance in terms of looking for a replacement in my view.
 

stevoc

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None of them is showing any talent on pitch lately.
Well to be fair they are barely getting on the pitch, one due to injury and the other two have apparently made it onto Erik's shitlist.
 

stevoc

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The word "rebuild" is a little like the word "transition" in the sense that it is often parroted to hide from the fact that we are incompetent and a bit naff these days. Also, it's impossible to have a successful rebuild if we don't have the right decision makers in place in terms of recruitment. Hopefully, we can achieve this under Ratcliffe and actually have a successful rebuild for the first time in over a decade.

I think we will spend significantly. Centre back and centre mid are two areas that will be prioritised. Obviously we need another striker too, but outside of that, it's just a matter of how much longer the footballing department will want to give to the likes of Dalot and Antony. Sancho is an irrelevance in terms of looking for a replacement in my view.
Yep, same as last summer then. Dalot has had enough time, Antony deserves another season at least but we can't go into next year with him as the only option so there will be a need to spend to reinforce that position also.

We have been poorly run in terms of recruitment and what compunds this is we seem to be forever trying to build new teams virtually from scratch every time we get a new manager. We're half way through this rebuild/transition with talk now of getting rid of Sancho, Varane and Casemiro signed in the last 2 years for close to £180m combined. And to be honest we dont' even know if ETH wil be here come July and if he isn't the process starts again.
 

DWelbz19

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I think [actively want] it’s correct for Hag to bench players for tactical reasons. It’s totally fair to bench Varane for build-up issues in Licha’s absence, but it’s a bit bizarre that he doesn’t hold the same standards to his midfield which is a turnover free for all.

I think Varane is our best CB, but if we can get a significant fee for him from Saudi or elsewhere, I’d accept that to go in for a younger replacement of a similar profile with a much better injury record.
 

Woziak

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I think [actively want] it’s correct for Hag to bench players for tactical reasons. It’s totally fair to bench Varane for build-up issues in Licha’s absence, but it’s a bit bizarre that he doesn’t hold the same standards to his midfield which is a turnover free for all.

I think Varane is our best CB, but if we can get a significant fee for him from Saudi or elsewhere, I’d accept that to go in for a younger replacement of a similar profile with a much better injury record.
I tend to agree he’s our best CB and not on the slide but the EPL is just too intense for a player that has niggling injury issues. He’s on a 4+1 contract so he’s a free agent from summer 2026 if we activate the clause.

He would have 1+1 left this summer so if we could get £35-45m this summer United should do the deal. We need to also look at moving Casemiro for the same value and get £700k off the wage bill in the summer.
 

Remember the geese

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Yep, same as last summer then. Dalot has had enough time, Antony deserves another season at least but we can't go into next year with him as the only option so there will be a need to spend to reinforce that position also.

We have been poorly run in terms of recruitment and what compunds this is we seem to be forever trying to build new teams virtually from scratch every time we get a new manager. We're half way through this rebuild/transition with talk now of getting rid of Sancho, Varane and Casemiro signed in the last 2 years for close to £180m combined. And to be honest we dont' even know if ETH wil be here come July and if he isn't the process starts again.
I'd be looking to sell both Dalot and Antony. Wan-Bissaka can stay as second choice, while I'd like to see Amad stick around and compete with a new right sided forward for a place in the team.

Sancho was simply a poor signing. I'm not even sure who out of Rashford or Greenwood he was supposed to relegate to the bench. Varane and Casemiro were short term signings. If we were serious about rebuilding, neither should really have been pursued. Varane is unreliable and although Casemiro was very good last season, there have been worrying signs so far in this campaign. I'm a bit envious of Chelsea for having two players who we could have signed very cheaply in Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo. Though with no direction at the top, it isn't a surprise that mistakes are made.
 

Hackman2210

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Ship him and Sancho out - if Cas wants to stay, let him have another year. I think Erikson is done physically which is a shame as he's a UTD style player. We just need to replace them with young hungry players. Superstars coming to UTD - those days may be gone, Time to use the Brighton moneyball method and unearth some gems.
 

stevoc

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I'd be looking to sell both Dalot and Antony. Wan-Bissaka can stay as second choice, while I'd like to see Amad stick around and compete with a new right sided forward for a place in the team.

Sancho was simply a poor signing. I'm not even sure who out of Rashford or Greenwood he was supposed to relegate to the bench. Varane and Casemiro were short term signings. If we were serious about rebuilding, neither should really have been pursued. Varane is unreliable and although Casemiro was very good last season, there have been worrying signs so far in this campaign. I'm a bit envious of Chelsea for having two players who we could have signed very cheaply in Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo. Though with no direction at the top, it isn't a surprise that mistakes are made.

He was bought for the right wing.
 

harms

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As I posted before in this thread maybe. He most likely plays Evans because he's a talker and organiser, Varane isn't, Maguire isn't, Lindelof isn't. So he's plays Maguire and Evans because they are familiar with each other.

Evans is still the best defender of the 3.
Varane is. Was it you who suggested that he wasn't because Ramos did all the talking in Madrid, conveniently forgetting that Varane was the defensive organizer for a World Cup winning team (and the best international side of the past decade?).
 

acid_fuji

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Well to be fair they are barely getting on the pitch, one due to injury and the other two have apparently made it onto Erik's shitlist.
Right now yes but Casemiro was not convincing this year. The fallout with Varane is very weird to me and could be true but a lot of people talk here that you need partnership with cb duos. Seems like Varane works great with Martinez but perhaps less with Maguire?
 

Oranges038

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Varane is. Was it you who suggested that he wasn't because Ramos did all the talking in Madrid, conveniently forgetting that Varane was the defensive organizer for a World Cup winning team (and the best international side of the past decade?).
Seems a bit mad that he could do it for France but not Real or Utd over more games. A player of his experience and know how should be the de facto leader of that backline. He's got a 35 year old that was relegated last season being preferred over him for that role, that says it all to me really.
 

harms

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Seems a bit mad that he could do it for France but not Real or Utd over more games. A player of his experience and know how should be the de facto leader of that backline. He's got a 35 year old that was relegated last season being preferred over him for that role, that says it all to me really.
He did it for United as well, last season specifically. And he wasn't a sheep led by Sergio Ramos at Madrid, so your argument is a bit void.

As for the latter — stuff happens. Especially since Varane isn't competing with Evans, he's competing with Maguire for the RCB spot — it's quite clear that ten Hag has a clear and separate hierarchy for RCB and LCB positions.
 

DWelbz19

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Varane is. Was it you who suggested that he wasn't because Ramos did all the talking in Madrid, conveniently forgetting that Varane was the defensive organizer for a World Cup winning team (and the best international side of the past decade?).
He definitely is. This was last season:
 

Iker Quesadillas

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The way people talk about Varane's injuries, you'd think he's never available. He played 56% of league minutes last season; Lisandro Martinez played 62%.

Martinez will miss October, November, and December. It's quite likely that by the end of the season, Varane will have been available as much as Martinez over the last two years. Yet it is Varane who's seen as the unforgivable sicknote who needs to be shifted ASAP.
 

harms

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The way people talk about Varane's injuries, you'd think he's never available. He played 56% of league minutes last season; Lisandro Martinez played 62%.

Martinez will miss October, November, and December. It's quite likely that by the end of the season, Varane will have been available as much as Martinez over the last two years. Yet it is Varane who's seen as the unforgivable sicknote who needs to be shifted ASAP.
Because Martinez had one horrible injury and with Varane its multiple different ones? I like Varane and I don't think that he has to be shipped out yet (we have bigger issues) but 56% is a horrible percentage for a starting CB.
 

Irwin99

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The way people talk about Varane's injuries, you'd think he's never available. He played 56% of league minutes last season; Lisandro Martinez played 62%.

Martinez will miss October, November, and December. It's quite likely that by the end of the season, Varane will have been available as much as Martinez over the last two years. Yet it is Varane who's seen as the unforgivable sicknote who needs to be shifted ASAP.
That's actually not very good though when your best paid and multiple champions league winning defender misses nearly half your league games and it was pretty much the same the previous season where he was often injured. I like Varane a lot and he's a better defender than anyone else we have but it's been a disappointing signing mostly.
 

stevoc

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Strange planning because Greenwood had that locked. We could have used Greenwood as a centre forward, but we signed Ronaldo the same summer.
Yes but Ronaldo was 36 when we signed him and I don't think his signing was something the club had planned for, it was just an opportunity that came up. Cavani was no spring chicken either, clearly the club for a long time had envisaged Greenwood being a striker long term. And I still think that will end up being the case wherever he lands after United.
 

stevoc

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Right now yes but Casemiro was not convincing this year. The fallout with Varane is very weird to me and could be true but a lot of people talk here that you need partnership with cb duos. Seems like Varane works great with Martinez but perhaps less with Maguire?
He's only made about 10 appearances this season and he's usually a slow starter.

I think Varane could work great with anyone given a chance, but it doesn't look like he will get that chance. ETH has found himself in the strange situation where he's now relying on Maguire who doesn't suit his style of play (if there is indeed still an effort to have one) and player he had tried to force out of the club in the summer because he's fallen out with the best and most experienced CB at the club.
 

Son

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He conceded possession in a dangerous area just prior to that balls up that led to the goal, luckily in that instance it didn't result in a goal. He just looks done. He doesn't even look quick anymore. He was a great player, but injuries have taken its toll on him.
I wouldn’t ever say he was a great player. Always been a very good one but never a leader or a game changer on the pitch. He has physical assets which are elite but he’s no Sergio Ramos that’s for sure.

Either way I still like varane and it’s a shame he’s slowing down.
 

Remember the geese

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Yes but Ronaldo was 36 when we signed him and I don't think his signing was something the club had planned for, it was just an opportunity that came up. Cavani was no spring chicken either, clearly the club for a long time had envisaged Greenwood being a striker long term. And I still think that will end up being the case wherever he lands after United.
I imagine he probably will too. We just shouldn't have signed Ronaldo. Though I doubt it would have made any difference regarding Sancho's ineffectiveness.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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That's actually not very good though when your best paid and multiple champions league winning defender misses nearly half your league games and it was pretty much the same the previous season where he was often injured. I like Varane a lot and he's a better defender than anyone else we have but it's been a disappointing signing mostly.
He only missed some of those games; he was rested or benched for the rest.

Don't get me wrong, the injury issues he's developed at United are not ideal. But by the numbers from last season and this season, they are perfectly manageable in a squad.
 

RedC

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The way people talk about Varane's injuries, you'd think he's never available. He played 56% of league minutes last season; Lisandro Martinez played 62%.
Martinez had an impact injury that could happen to anyone, Varane has constant muscle injuries that make him completely unreliable as a starter.
 

Leftback99

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The way people talk about Varane's injuries, you'd think he's never available. He played 56% of league minutes last season; Lisandro Martinez played 62%.

Martinez will miss October, November, and December. It's quite likely that by the end of the season, Varane will have been available as much as Martinez over the last two years. Yet it is Varane who's seen as the unforgivable sicknote who needs to be shifted ASAP.
Neither good enough to build a reliable defence around.
 

friendlytramp

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Get rid of him Sancho and Casemiro and reinvest in talent more suited to the team on much lower wages
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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Getting rid of him while keeping Maguire, Lindelöf and Evans is insanity. Hard to believe that in the later stage of his career he suddenly became a problematic player.
 

Toshey

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This season he has been very shit and Maguire has been very good.
If he can't accept that and fight for his place, he should go.
Don't care what he has won in the past.
 

Ayoba

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Disappointed he can’t even get a start over Lindeloff ffs
 

Litch

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Narrative around Sancho kind of made sense given he had previous but Varane? Even with the madness at Real and France, never heard his name called?
 

Alemar

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This season he has been very shit and Maguire has been very good.
No one is saying that Maguire doesn’t deserve to start - it’s merited by performance. But - and it’s a big but - how is Varane behind Lindelof? We’ve seen Lindelof today - not very good.
 

Still ill

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Yeah, disappointed in him. Thought he'd bd the ultimate pro. We know what Ten Hag is, I'm sure he was a bit awkward in his delivery but I would have bet my house Varane would just get the head down and fight his way back in. I guess not.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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I still think there's a way back for him this season - but it probably won't be until either a) Martinez is back or b) Maguire has a couple of poor performances.

Maguire and Varane clearly doesn't work as a CB partnership. I'd prefer to see Lindelof and Varane (as we saw in the back end of last season) but right now I understand why Ten Hag won't drop Maguire when his confidence is high.
 

Red00012

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Just put Maguire on the left and Varane on the right ffs. Lindelof needs binning off
 

Pronewbie

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Anyone else cool with binning Varane in the summer because of his injury problems? It's not like he's been mostly world class when he plays for us. He can be a bit iffy and if we have an adequate replacement I'd be fine with cashing in while we still can.
 
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