Rashford and Martial are a problem

Davie Moyes

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Just not clinical or ruthless enough for me. I'm never convinced that they'll finish the easy chances in the box.

I watched Martial for France v Portugal and he missed around 3 chances from in the box.
 

Red00012

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Anyone who wants to understand why Martial is not a natural striker just needs to watch Cavani's movement and positioning in his few minutes on the pitch, vs Martial's 3/4 of the game as the No. 9
That’s twice now , Everton and West Brom.
 

sammsky1

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Some of the pundits have been right on this all along. We really do need a top draw no9. I dont think Greenwood is ready yet, so really need Cavani to step upto world class standards.
Rashford, Martial etc can do all their inverted stuff around that man.
 
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DeGea

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They are wide players who can score goals.

They are not out-and-out strikers like van Nistelrooy for example.

To do well, you basically need someone who can score from almost nothing.
 

sokol11

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Don't agree, Rashford even on an off day can turn a game. His pace and workrate are second to none. A true athlete. Yes he tries things at times that aren't on, but George Best did the same. He's ok! Martial is the problem!
Correct.
 

Hammondo

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They are wide players who can score goals.

They are not out-and-out strikers like van Nistelrooy for example.

To do well, you basically need someone who can score from almost nothing.
They are wide players who are poor at creating and general passing.
 

Devil may care

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Rashford and Maguire are the longer term problem, if Ole gets Haaland or the mooted Ronaldo return happens he'll drop Martial like a hot brick, Rashford and Maguire will continue to start no matter how they play.
 

Ali Dia

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Martial is a placeholder now for me. He's had enough chances, and shines when he has space to work in, but is the single biggest reason why we struggle in these types of matches. Id be amazed if we weren't intending on breaking the bank for Haaland this summer
Hopefully. We badly need a fresh focal point up there and we still really miss and need a natural right winger, ffs! Martial and Rashford were just breaking down move after move and not showing anywhere near enough desire. A club of our size need players to compete with these lads when their form gets like this. There are better players out there and we should always be looking to improve. Also our coaching looks negative so it’s probably hard for any attacking player to thrive in this system. Fielding both matic and mata was always going to be a bust behind the attack too. James would have probably caused WBA more problems on the left than Rashford did today.
 

Plymouth Red

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Don't agree, Rashford even on an off day can turn a game. His pace and workrate are second to none. A true athlete. Yes he tries things at times that aren't on, but George Best did the same. He's ok! Martial is the problem!
There's no comparison between Rashford and Best. George would outclass him by a distance In terms of running with the ball, close control, passing and finishing with either foot or a header.
Best was the nearest player to Cruyff or Messi that we ever had.
Rashford has never been a clinical finisher and his football intelligence and awareness during play stopped developing at least two years ago.
His inconsistency will stop him from being a truly top class player.
Same goes for Martial.
 

adamwest

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Some of the pundits have been right on this all along. We really do need a top draw no9. I dont think Greenwood is ready yet, so really need Cavani to step unto world class standards.
Rashford, Martial etc can do all their inverted stuff around that man.
Gave me a tickle :lol:
 

Pogue Mahone

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Cavani was a bit crap today. But he’s rusty. And old. So we shouldn’t expect much more from him. Despite this, it’s crazy how much better we looked when he came on. Having a striker who understands a striker’s movement isn’t a big ask, surely, but we seem to go without that in almost every game we play.
 

VanGaalEra

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Cavani was a bit crap today. But he’s rusty. And old. So we shouldn’t expect much more from him. Despite this, it’s crazy how much better we looked when he came on. Having a striker who understands a striker’s movement isn’t a big ask, surely, but we seem to go without that in almost every game we play.
I don’t think Cavani coming on was the reason we looked better, had more to do with WBA having to open up more and it gave us more room to work with, which is when we’re at our best.
 

Dante

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Our hope of a 30 goal a season striker is with Greenwood, Martial will never hit those numbers consistently, simply because he's not a striker, he's an inside forward.
I don't think Martial has the full set of ingredients to play either of those roles effectively.

He doesn't have the killer instinct or appreciation of movement to be a CF. And he doesn't have the final ball or workrate to be an inside forward.

What he does have is a lot of raw talent. Great finishing, very good close control on the run, decent upper body strength with his back to goal, and excellent pace. But there's a lack competitive edge which prevents him from bringing it all together. I have no idea what the best thing is to do with Martial. Mourinho, Ole, LvG and Deschamps have all failed to coax the best out of the guy (at least so far).

I reckon he could be brilliant in a midtable team scoring 25+ goals in a season. Like a Danny Ings or Kevin Phillips who had their teams built around them. There's a lot about Martial that gives the impression he's top class. But doing it at a big club may be beyond him.

I'll be hoping for a penny drop moment in the meantime.
 

Stacks

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Yeah they really need to turn into Raheem Sterling - the bastion of consistency who scores half of his seasons goals in a run of about 10 games, and then looks like he can't kick a ball for the rest of the season.

We must be the only club in the world, who's most talented players are the problem.
This is not an accurate reflection of Sterling. He has been s consistent scorer for a while now. He went on a run of 10 without scoring but outside of that was a regular
 

GlasgowCeltic

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They’re both 442 strikers imo, the guy who has some freedom on account of playing next to the 9 who does the real striker shift, the Robbie Keane next to Niall Quinn etc
 
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adamwest

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You get what I mean though? All this hipster football makes me very confused sometimes :lol: A classic No 9 should always have a place in football!
I think the 'classic no.9' isn't as crucial to success as it was in years gone by. Ultimately you need your forwards to be scoring goals... and that's what Martial / Rashford are - they're forwards. Now, would they benefit from more of a 'classic no.9' in between them? I'd say absolutely yes. Is it Cavani?

But yes your subtle cut of modern hipster football was what gave me a tickle.
 

KetilOwren88

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Both Martial and Rashford are brilliant finishers on their day, but both also miss too many sitters. My biggest concern with them is that neither look natural as strikers or wide forwards except when we play on the counter.
 

Valencia's Left Foot

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Rashford has shown he can have a poor game and still get you the winner. Martial hasn't.

Were an elite defender and an elite striker away from challenging.
Yep, simple as this. Need a proper striker. I still want martial in the squad, but don’t think he should be starting every game.
 

WR10

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They’re both inside forwards with little to natural movement ability as a striker. No instinctual understanding how to read space around them in a box. No subconscious timing mastery of balls coming into a box. Essentially brain dead footballers that are athletes (more so Rashford).

Unfortunately over the past 3 years - all the transfer decisions we’ve made have been to ensure Rashford and Martial are auto starters.

They’re not great.
 

POF

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Just not clinical or ruthless enough for me. I'm never convinced that they'll finish the easy chances in the box.

I watched Martial for France v Portugal and he missed around 3 chances from in the box.
Martial's finishing is the least of his worries. I think this is an excellent thread and OP because unlike most threads on here recently there is a bit of perspective.

It's not Rashford and Martial are crap. They're clearly both exceptionally talented young players. But having 2 such inconsistent players as the main 2 forwards in this team makes the team inconsistent.

Martial has the raw talent to be a top number 9. He can hold the ball up, he has speed and power, he's excellent at interplay around the box, he can score headers from crosses and he's a calm and quality finisher . . . when he's on form.

When he's off form, he sulks and does absolutely nothing. That is his issue.

The thread hit the nail on the head in that United's main 2 forwards are incredibly inconsistent. When they're good, United has a really good competitive team. When they're bad, United has a toothless attack that relies on Bruno for everything offensively.

To go from inconsistent and promising to a truly good team, United needs consistent performance from their forwards. Either Martial needs to become more consistent or United needs to find someone who is. His performance today was unacceptable and I'm disappointed in Ole for not taking him off.
 

el3mel

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I don't see Rashford as a problem at all, he's still our second most important attacking player after Bruno. His finishing is kinda hit and and miss at this point, but is always contributing something for the team and I am sure the finish will improve as he grows up.

Martial though is indeed a problem. He's a good player to have in the squad, can score goals from time to time and contribute, but shouldn't be the main striker for a club like Manchester United. He's simply not good enough if we want to ever challenge for the league. You need your striker to be bang on consistent and scoring goals regularly. It's critical to succeed in PL, and without a consistent top notch striker we will never manage to do it imo. Liverpool get away with it because Salah and Mane are already top notch goalscorers.

I think it's time next summer to try again for Haaland. He's exactly what we need and with him up top we will be banging goals nonstop. Martial could stay as a bench option for both left flank and striker.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Martial was worse today and the Everton game than Rashford.

At least Rashford had some decent moment against WBA like the pass he made from the right wing and the shot on the top bin. He also the one who created the pass to Bruno’s good first touch to Martial poor finishing in first half. It was more of a 5 or 6 out 10 performance, the same with against Everton & Arsenal. You will expect sort of form from Rashford since he’s still in development age. What disappointment me about Rashford is that he’s becoming more coward when it comes to take on players.

Martial on the other hand is 25 this year and this is supposed to be the year where he needs to show that he’s worth the no 9 but he hasn’t been clinical enough and not aggressive enough. He had chance to make it 1-0 first against Everton and he missed it. And that one chance he had against WBA was supposed to be 90% goal opportunity if he placed his shot to the corner of the goal rather than just hitting it on target but straight to keeper.

Martial is a problem at the moment, although, having better right wing than Mata could improve us going attack and might improve Martial as well so he’s not the only problem.
 

r0663664

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It doesn't matter what we think. Ole thinks he is the smart one, he fail to recognise that Martial is not an out and out striker. Martial is not a goal machine and everyone knows that except our World Class Manager who think he knows better. Stick Martial on the left wing, he is more useful there and put Cavani at the top. Is that so hard?! Stop experimenting something that will not work. To address this, get Ole out. Martial is like a Timo or Min, they are not striker but wing players who can score goals. Use your freaking brain.
 

cptkeane1993

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I love them both but they’re our 2 main goalscorers and are both terribly inconsistent. And folks wonder why Man Utd puts out inconsistent performances.

Liverpool - Salah and Mane - terribly consistent, with Jota backing up
Man City - Aguero and Sterling - terribly consistent, with Jesus backing up
This is a key reason why they’ve won most of the available titles in the past three years.

Among the pretenders, we have:
Spurs - Kane and Son, with Bale waiting in the wings
Chelsea - Werner and Abraham, with Pulisic, Giroud backing up
These guys’ consistency this season reflects in their teams’ league positions, and potential for titles.

Rashford and Martial are both young and haven’t achieved consistency yet. (You could say the same for Chelsea but their squad strength means they have to perform to stay in the team.) If we want to win titles, we can carry only one of them. The other needs to be the more mature one, showing consistency and taking responsibility. Perhaps that’s Cavani but it’s early days.

Sigh, if we had Sancho or Grealish in the summer, they’d have pushed Rashford towards greater consistency and he in turn would’ve pushed Martial. Ole knew this and would’ve made it clear to the board but they haven’t backed him yet. They need to, soon.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It doesn't matter what we think. Ole thinks he is the smart one, he fail to recognise that Martial is not an out and out striker. Martial is not a goal machine and everyone knows that except our World Class Manager who think he knows better. Stick Martial on the left wing, he is more useful there and put Cavani at the top. Is that so hard?! Stop experimenting something that will not work. To address this, get Ole out. Martial is like a Timo or Min, they are not striker but wing players who can score goals. Use your freaking brain.
There is a reason why he wanted Haland, you never think why he wanted another striker like Haland did you?
 

dal

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Everything, we are saying Ole seems to know. Grealish and sancho would have massively helped our ball retention and general play. Right now I’d still be happy with Grealish and Haaland.

Rashford, Grealish, Martial, Haaland, Diallo,
Greenwood. 3 spots for 6 players.
 

Bobcat

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The fact that Rashford, however fitful, has demonstrably improved as a player since his first season, is an encouraging sign whenever he has an off day.

The fact that Martial hasn’t really, is not.

He’s a very good player, but he’s been struggling to break through the barrier to “great one” for 5 years... eventually the excuses about his position or his number or whatever it is this week, will run out.
Think you are spot on here. I've always had high hopes for him and last season it looked like he was finally improving under Ole, but his lack of consistency is still a huge issue and it really should not be at his age
 

Slik

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I don't think Martial has the full set of ingredients to play either of those roles effectively.

He doesn't have the killer instinct or appreciation of movement to be a CF. And he doesn't have the final ball or workrate to be an inside forward.

What he does have is a lot of raw talent. Great finishing, very good close control on the run, decent upper body strength with his back to goal, and excellent pace. But there's a lack competitive edge which prevents him from bringing it all together. I have no idea what the best thing is to do with Martial. Mourinho, Ole, LvG and Deschamps have all failed to coax the best out of the guy (at least so far).

I reckon he could be brilliant in a midtable team scoring 25+ goals in a season. Like a Danny Ings or Kevin Phillips who had their teams built around them. There's a lot about Martial that gives the impression he's top class. But doing it at a big club may be beyond him.

I'll be hoping for a penny drop moment in the meantime.
LVG? What re u on about? Martial was almost unplayable under LVG
 

Josep Dowling

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So was Mourinho right to attempt to get rid of Martial as well? He finally looked like the number 9 we needed during lockdown and now he’s gone back to his inconsistent self.
 

TwoSheds

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Why is this thread being used whenever Martial has an anonymous game? What's it got to do with Rashford?
 

Lemansky

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People that don’t think we need a new number nine should turn on their television when Dortmund plays. Håland is levels above Martial and would transform our team.
 

Borys

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There was a couple of moments when Telles tried a cross, and there was nobody in the box.

Other than shocking conversion rate, it isn't clear to me what are we expecting them to do. Sometimes it seems like we're trying to imitate Liverpool free-flowing front 3. But it won't work for us, because they have fullbacks stretching the defenders.
Rashford drops deep and combines with fullback and Bruno, but it means Martial is on his own in attack and easy to cover. Mata is somewhere doing something (whatever he is supposed to be doing), probably fighting not to fall over.

When Cavani was introduced, he was also dropping deeper. Why the hell would he be doing that?

In my opinion we should be starting Cavani in the CF position (against low block teams at least) and just tell him to do runs and keep two CBs occupied. It'll be easier for Rashford and Martial to find space to operate close to the box.

For the record I don't think Rashford and Martial overall game is the problem. The former is contributing in every game in some ways, and the latter finds himself in good situations (France was the best example, he had 3 easy chances to score, scored as many as yesterday).

Surely we have to start converting chances to goals sooner rather than later, right guys?
Guys??
Anybody?!
 

TwoSheds

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Rashford was superb yesterday then. Shades of Messi and Ronaldo
He was the best attacker with Bruno. Again not saying much but picking him out would seem odd. We could call it the Martial and Cavani, Van de Beek and Mata thread and have a go at all of them as one amorphous blob of footballer?

(Something something Shaw joke)