Rashford and Martial are a problem

Widow

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Wasn't referring to you personally mate. There are some idiots who can't stop themselves on matchday.
Okay bud, fair enough.


He earns criticism for his inconsistency and decision making at times. When he should take a player on he looks to pass, and is accused of being greedy when he goes it alone. It shouldn't be what he's remembered for as a footballer. He's damn close to 100 goals for Utd, that's impressive but it should be already
Agreed!

I think the frustration stems from the fact he has all the makings of truly great player, a United legend but always seems a little short off the mark.

Just when he looks like he could do with a rest, he'll come on in the CL and score a hattrick!

I don't think this moody look he and Tony has helps much either. It's not too bad when 3-1 up but when we are behind it gives off the wrong impression
 

Grande

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It's not untrue, it's my opinion.

You won't find me calling them shit or he's not a footballer ect.. Not in my post or on match day.

Maybe I make myself feel bad for criticising him.
THe statement that one cannot write a bad word about Rashford and that he is immune to criticism is both an opion and untrue. Evidenced aplenty on this forum by a whole forest of bad words and criticism. It’s not hard to find, and it’s there even if you might not be aware of it.

Wether all that criticism or sometimes just plain dislike is warranted, is quite another kind of opinion, and more difficult to prove.
 

ROFLUTION

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I’d rather not turn this into Rashford vs Martial. The question is, can any fan of either player honestly say they’re consistently playing well enough to be the two main men up front for a club that is trying to win big trophies?
Rashford scores or assists about every second game. I think that's good enough. Others should chip in too for the remaining goals. That's not Rashford's fault. His share of benefit is more than fair.

Clearly he's getting to a new level too and becoming better and better. Already did a few Ronaldo like things this season like his hattrick (couldve been 4 in 30 minutes) and his supreme winning pass to Bruno against Newcastle.
 

amolbhatia50k

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If there's an area of the pitch where we don't have a problem it's in attack. Whenever we actually manage to et the ball to our attacking players with any kind of tempo, we almost invariably win the game.

Our forwards always seem to be the first in line for criticism but even the best attacking players in the world are frustrating and inconsistent. Rashford is certainly that but take him out of the game yesterday for example and we lose half our threat. Compare the problems he caused Everton to Mata on the opposite side who was a non entity. If we didn't have Rashford and Martial every single game would be a massive struggle.

I can't remember us having many (if any?) forward plaers who weren't inconsistent. RVP even in his good season went on a barron run and had frequent games where he'd just give the ball away cheaply over and over. Zlatan was fecking awful half the time. Rooney who is our highest ever goalscorer would have haave the touch of a drunk 80 year old in what seemed like most games. Only Ronaldo I can think of as an exception and even he was terrible half the time, just that he'd usually boot the ball into the goal a couple of times regardless.

The good thing is we have 2 very high level attacking players for me in Fernandes and Rashford, an extremely talented youngster in Greenwood, and Martial who for me isn't quite at the same level but is still pretty good. That's four very good forwards who you can actuallly fit in the team together, which means the inconsistenncy is a bit less important because even if three of them are having an off day the fourth can still win you the game. Really very few teams have that.

You look at Liverpool and Salah is off it half the time. Mane has days where he can't do a thing right. Firminho has frankly been rubbish for months. It's still good enough for them because having three good forwards means you don't rely on every one of them constantly being in top form. We have the bonus of Fernandes...our problems are more that we have frequent games where our defence or midfield seem to like making themselves the centre of attention while our forwards barely get a decent pass played to them all game.
Agree with all of this.

It's just typical of many of our fans to hail the chaps who run around looking busy (Fred, Mctominay etc) as against those who have genuine quality. If Martial and Rashford are a problem (and our front three put up terrific numbers last season), what does that make our midfield, CBs and fullbacks? Or right wingers? An absolute joke? And if they are, then maybe our best players, like Rashford and Martail deserve to play in a team which has at least other positions at their level rather than well below it.

Liverpool's front line is better than ours. But its their buildup, control of games and chance creation that is miles ahead. The ease with which they get the ball to the forwards is the important part.
 

kkengvib

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It feels like having two Ronaldos (Cristiano) in the team but the early days where his decision making was poor, wildly inconsistent, really frustrating to watch, but capable of producing moments of magic.
And back then we surrounded him with seasoned veterans and world class players, so I understand the feeling of not being able to afford two such players in the same squad, especially in attack.

But it's not like we're spoiled for choice here as our alternatives are either the same (Greenwood) or still not 100% fit (Cavani) so we'll probably continue to see a lot more of this moving forward. What I would like to see is if it is clear that both or one of them are not having a good day, Ole needs to be willing to make changes (rotate, bring them off and do so earlier). We do have Cavani and Greenwood to provide competition so there's no need to persist with them. He did the same with Pogba... he can do the same with these two.
 

Raven

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This is just another on the list of god awful threads on this forum. No doubt it'll be up there with the "Is it time to hurt Rashy's bubble?" thread. Both are taking time to find their best form this season but it's their attacking and combination play that pulls us through so many tough matches.
 

noodlehair

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Agree with all of this.

It's just typical of many of our fans to hail the chaps who run around looking busy (Fred, Mctominay etc) as against those who have genuine quality. If Martial and Rashford are a problem (and our front three put up terrific numbers last season), what does that make our midfield, CBs and fullbacks? Or right wingers? An absolute joke? And if they are, then maybe our best players, like Rashford and Martail deserve to play in a team which has at least other positions at their level rather than well below it.

Liverpool's front line is better than ours. But its their buildup, control of games and chance creation that is miles ahead. The ease with which they get the ball to the forwards is the important part.
Yeah. On the flip side I find it strange how many people, particularly with our midfield, seem to think work rate or quality is a choice. As if it's unreasonable for a player to have both...and yet Fernandes and Rashford have both.

If Pogba and Matic covered the ground Fred and McTominay do they would be first choice without any question, but half of the midfield's job is to break up the other team's play and give the ball to the forward players, and when we do that instead of trying to win games by having someone walk about with the ball in the centre circle, we look a much better team, because up front we have 4 players who if you give them service will always hurt teams.

If you're looking for areas where we don't look right as a team or are missing something. For me it's defence, because no matter who you pick there are question marks, then midfield, because half the people we play there seem to lack either the discipline or sharpness to do so. Up front there is always room for improvement but it would be improvement imo rather than fixing something that doesn't work.

Liverpool's front three is a level above at the moment, but Rashford, Martial and Greenwood are all imo better players than Salah, Mane or Firminho were at comparable ages, and then we also have Bruno which is the type of player that I think Liverpool actually lack. If our midfield and defence were at the same level as Liverpool's I don't think we'd be a million miles from competing with them, and the difference would probably be mostly down to them having arguably the best current manager in the world.
 

simplyared

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Don't agree, Rashford even on an off day can turn a game. His pace and workrate are second to none. A true athlete. Yes he tries things at times that aren't on, but George Best did the same. He's ok! Martial is the problem!
 

Roane

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I think both Martial and Rashford have a role at UTD. Just not as the main forwards. I think we need a solid number 9.

I think our problem as a team is the forward lineup as they play a certain way. I think this impacts on the squad as a whole.

Put simply, as someone used the LFC forwards above, look at their movement and ours. Ours is almost nil by comparison. Our forwards simply don't get into the opposition box often enough. One makes a run and the other don't take a gamble to keep running. Maybe because they know the other won't pass (something which is frustrating every game) or the emphasis is on getting back if countered.

We have had Cavani for a short while and whilst he is older and out if synch just watch his movement. He occupies defenders. Our others don't

I honestly think with better forwards we would see less pressure on the defenders, as currently the ball keeps coming back due to lack of hold up play and I think more crosses from our fullbacks, who currently get a lot of stick but who do they have in the box to cross to? Tbf to Luke he put in good crosses when he saw someone in the box.

I also think Martial has some skills that are better than Rashford and vice versa, but I woul like to see Martial with say Cavani as I think they would compliment each other and both are better at holding the ball up.

Rashford for me is the better at counter attacking but imho is the weaker in terms of when he has to think about what to do. If he let instinct do more he is much better
 

Ferguson’s Hairdryer

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People laughed at Liverpool for paying £37m for Salah. Before 24 he didn’t show any world class form, but he must have obviously demonstrated world class ability/potential to scouts otherwise he would not have been signed by Chelsea.

I think the problem is we watch Martial and Rashford week in week out, so see the best and worse of them. We see highlights, YouTube clips, and stats of other players their age at other clubs and assume they’ve been putting in 7/10 performances week in week out.

Take the players Chelsea signed, Havertz and Werner. Now they are in the EPL we see that they are not players delivering weekly MOTM performances, they have crap games. But that’s the price of playing young talented players. Everyone , except Mourinho, seems to realise it’s a price worth paying.
 
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Matthew1972

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Supremely talented players and when they play well we look superb going forward. But, let’s be honest, they’ve been pretty rubbish so far this season. At the end of the day they are both very inconsistent. So is it any surprise that our attacking football is inconsistent too?

I think a team can carry one “yong and lernin” player up front but we shouldn’t be so reliant on two of them. And not without a really top quality, third attacker - in his prime - up front with them (i.e. someone considerably better than James or Mata)

Are there any other top teams so reliant on young/flaky players in such important positions?

Discuss.
Excellent post, and I agree. I do think that Rashford would do much better with a deadly striker. We've missed the opportunity to watch Greenwood continue his growth, but a proper striker and a deadly winger opposite Rashford and we would win the league even with Maguire and Lindelof in front of DeGea.
 

Bebestation

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We need players right bang on their prime.

Look at Salah, Mane, Ziyech, Kane, Son, Aubameyang, Aguero, KDB, Sterling etc

We only have Bruno and Pogba who are attacking players right on their prime. Many would argue that Pogba doesnt fit the team at all.

Martial is reaching the start of his prime but isnt there yet. We have one of the youngest teams in the world as a big club.

Get players in their prime and then point directly at them if they are not producing rather than pointing at Rashford and Martial. The prime players should be the ones who should be asked to bring us the trophies and success.

Forget his ability as a footballer, is Martial just about to enter the start of his prime going to achieve anything only with Bruno Fernandes in his team or would he theoretically achieve more with Mane, Henderson, Salah, Widanjldum, firmino, etc?
 

bsCallout

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Alot of people commending Rashford on workrate. I must be watching something completely different.

He strolls around half the time, doesnt join the team press and doesnt run in behind or attack spaces in the box.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I think Martial not got going at all this season. I was very impressed with his entire package as an out and out nine post-lockdown so I'm happy to give him time to get started this year before I pass judgement on the pair of them. They're both young, streaky players and obviously if a world class forward becomes available we should be interested but I'm happy with them two starting matches.
 

Amerifan

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DDG, Pogba, Lindelof, Mcquire, Shaw, AWB, James, now these two. Let’s complain about every player. There’s a good time. Other team’s forums say more positive things about our players than our “fans”. Huh.
 

RashysTekkers

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Alot of people commending Rashford on workrate. I must be watching something completely different.

He strolls around half the time, doesnt join the team press and doesnt run in behind or attack spaces in the box.
Yep. You must be watching different games for sure.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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And this is why I felt we didn't need Sancho. He would be just as inconsistent as them. Our attackers will be Greenwood Rashford Martial Sancho James Cavani Ighalo. Combination of inconsistent and past their prime attackers. We need an RW in his prime. Martial needs to establish himself as a consistent player this season as he himself is hitting his prime. But he's started off very poorly. Though that's the whole team
 

Guv77

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Cavani at 45 years old showing exactly why Martial is so far away from the level we need if we aspire to ever be a top team again.
To be fair even Ole could come out of retirement and still show more of an attacking instinct than Martial.
even Hoddle on commentary was urging Martial to make a run instead of standing still.
 

united for life

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Both of them need to buck up.
they are good footballers, but lazy and inconsistent. I don’t see any eagerness in them to win and score. They seem cold on the pitch.. not what we want from them. Especially martial, missed some sitters today
 

Lay

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Not surprising that stat. They’re not natural finishers
 

Mockney

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The fact that Rashford, however fitful, has demonstrably improved as a player since his first season, is an encouraging sign whenever he has an off day.

The fact that Martial hasn’t really, is not.

He’s a very good player, but he’s been struggling to break through the barrier to “great one” for 5 years... eventually the excuses about his position or his number or whatever it is this week, will run out.
 

LJJT

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Rashford is ironically terribly greedy with the ball. Martial had a face and attitude of a slapped arse when Cavani came one. Martial has zero chemistry with cavani. Martial and Rashford have terrible terrible body language and attitude. So arrogant with the ball, so arrogant off the ball. If they where both as good as they think they where I’d get it but they both miss so many changes and Rashford in particular makes so many poor decisions with the ball. All this tica taca, flicking balls here and there, dummying chances it’s got to stop. fecking pass and move and finish!!!
 

Bilbo

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Martial is obviously not the right type of striker for this type of opponent. The more Cavani plays the more obvious it becomes
 

Hammondo

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Been a problem for a while. Their passing is poor so if their finishing is poor they offer nothing.
 

Okey

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Anyone who wants to understand why Martial is not a natural striker just needs to watch Cavani's movement and positioning in his few minutes on the pitch, vs Martial's 3/4 of the game as the No. 9
 

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This is the season where they've been given huge responsibility to show they're up to leading the line for a club like United, but they're showing they arent there. To be fair after the end of last season I thought they earned their shot.
 

Bilbo

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The fact that Rashford, however fitful, has demonstrably improved as a player since his first season, is an encouraging sign whenever he has an off day.

The fact that Martial hasn’t really, is not.

He’s a very good player, but he’s been struggling to break through the barrier to “great one” for 5 years... eventually the excuses about his position or his number or whatever it is this week, will run out.
Martial is a placeholder now for me. He's had enough chances, and shines when he has space to work in, but is the single biggest reason why we struggle in these types of matches. Id be amazed if we weren't intending on breaking the bank for Haaland this summer
 

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Rashford is ironically terribly greedy with the ball. Martial had a face and attitude of a slapped arse when Cavani came one.
Pissed me off. Was the same when Ibra came. Doesn't seem to cope well with bit of competition. Not a good sign.
 

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They’re both bluffers and neither are good enough for a side with pretensions towards being successful. We will be duking it out for 3rd to 7th with lads like them.
 

Godfather

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Martial is a placeholder now for me. He's had enough chances, and shines when he has space to work in, but is the single biggest reason why we struggle in these types of matches. Id be amazed if we weren't intending on breaking the bank for Haaland this summer
Let's hope so. Wouldn't hold my breath though
 

Adam-Utd

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Feel like it's time to make them battle it out for the LW. Haaland is head and shoulders better than them both and it's a shame we missed out on him. IF we have a chance of signing him we should snap their hands off.
 

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Need to get Greenwood back in the team and firing again. Will take the goalscoring burden off the other 2 a bit. He also has a nice habit of getting the ball rolling in tight games to give us the lead which allows the game to open up for the other 2 to use their pace on the counter and look more effective
 

pascell

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Our hope of a 30 goal a season striker is with Greenwood, Martial will never hit those numbers consistently, simply because he's not a striker, he's an inside forward.