Rashford and Martial are a problem

[gajender]

I don’t get this “Rashford plays well in patches” stuff we hear.

No he doesn’t. He plays well in minutes, if that.

All I see from Rashford is 90mins of sh**e every week with one or two isolated moments of skill or a decent shot or something. His all round game is painful to watch.

As soon as he is stopped, turned or has his back to goal, he’s a terrible liability

Unfortunately none of our attackers are consistently good enough during the games they would have moments that's about it ,I don't ever feel after watching the game that even single one of our attackers was constant threat through out the game that's why I find it baffling when posters say if we buy Grealish where would he play as if Rashford would keep him out he would even bench Fernandes eventually if he plays through the middle because he is that good and we need that kind of quality if we intend to get back to top.
Come next season both Rashford and Martial if not sold should not be starters for sure, we need better we deserve better.

 

[Godfather]

Marcus Rashford was 22 years old at the start of this season. Think about that for a moment. Then think about where all those players on that list were playing football at the same age. The penny will drop, eventually.

Or not. We don't know that. There's been plenty of promising players that couldn't kick on. If he doesn't develop a mentality to put the work in it will be difficult for him no matter his talent. I obviously do think he will become a very good player but the lack of effort from him is concerning.

 

[Freak]

They both have been a problem for years now. The problem we have is we don’t have anyone capable who can challenge them except Cavani. This is why we should go all out and get either Grealish or Sancho or someone. Rashford and Martial should not be without proper competition to their places in the first eleven.

I would go as far as to say Martial should be sold. I’ve had enough of him.

 

[wolvored]

You have to blame Ole as well. Everyone could see Martial should have been hooked off at ht but he just carrys on with the same shit. Greenwood then gets taken off and Martial gets to stay on all match. If he starts against Arsenal I will start to wonder if Joel Glazer is having input in team selection

 

[Pace Abuser]

Someone please explain to me how these two are consistently allowed to put in no effort whatsoever? It didn't just happen last night, it's been like this all season.
Is this why Jose couldn't stand the pair? When they actually run and put in effort, we've seen they can be lethal, but they just don't and Ole has done nothing to address it despite it staring everyone in the face plain to see.

Who tf does Rashford think he is? Got a few plaudits for getting political and now thinks he's too big to run?

Last night was an easy game, lost because too many of our players felt above the need to run. We were sick of Pogba doing it, now that he's finally kicked into some gear, these two have started walking around the pitch looking moody.

0 effort is unacceptable and Ole has done nothing to address it.

 

[Judas]

I'm at the point where I don't see the point of Martial. His best position is on the wing, which is also Rashford's position, and I think the latter is more worthy.

But I think we're stuck with Martial, monster contract recently given to him, and the footballing world is in a sticky spot with Covid.

 

[Gabriel Allon]

I don’t get this “Rashford plays well in patches” stuff we hear.

No he doesn’t. He plays well in minutes, if that.

All I see from Rashford is 90mins of sh**e every week with one or two isolated moments of skill or a decent shot or something. His all round game is painful to watch.

As soon as he is stopped, turned or has his back to goal, he’s a terrible liability

Exactly.

For the life of me I can’t understand the hype. In the last month I’ve heard at least 3 different commentators describe him as a “special talent”. The guy is useless nearly every week. He might score one goal here and there and have an assist, but he’s fecking obligated to do so. He starts just about every game and has a lot of pace, so he has ample opportunity to carve out goal threatening moments. If the team is relying on Rashford as one of their “star” players, they’re on a hiding to nothing. He also doesn’t strike me as someone with much of a brain. Some of the things he does just beggars belief.

Martial, well, if he’s not sold in the summer then there’s a big problem. Every time he starts the team plays with 10 men. They could probably ditch Martial and play with 5 across the back, allow Maguire to have more of a free role on the ball and still have more attacking threat.

Bring in Haaland. Whatever it takes.

 

[RashyForPM]

It’s unfair to group Rashford with Martial. Martial has been truly awful this season and should be sold, while Rashford is just in a bad run of form.

	Rashford	Martial
Goals	7	2
Minutes per goal	233	576
Shot accuracy %	64.7	61.5
Assists	5	3
Chances created	8	10

Key passes per game

1

0.8

 

[FrankDrebin]

Comfortably the worst culprits last night. Granted everyone else performed poorly but these two took it up to a whole new level. Lazy and arrogant beyond belief.
Drop them both. Put Beek in the 11.

 

[Jacob]

I'm at the point where I don't see the point of Martial. His best position is on the wing, which is also Rashford's position, and I think the latter is more worthy.

But I think we're stuck with Martial, monster contract recently given to him, and the footballing world is in a sticky spot with Covid.

He must be demoted to squad player status anyhow. But first, we need Diallo to step up or buy an RW.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Someone please explain to me how these two are consistently allowed to put in no effort whatsoever? It didn't just happen last night, it's been like this all season.
Is this why Jose couldn't stand the pair? When they actually run and put in effort, we've seen they can be lethal, but they just don't and Ole has done nothing to address it despite it staring everyone in the face plain to see.

Who tf does Rashford think he is? Got a few plaudits for getting political and now thinks he's too big to run?

Last night was an easy game, lost because too many of our players felt above the need to run. We were sick of Pogba doing it, now that he's finally kicked into some gear, these two have started walking around the pitch looking moody.

0 effort is unacceptable and Ole has done nothing to address it.

That is my problem with them. Neither work hard enough either up front or tracking back. You look at the work Kane and Son put in other areas of the pitch, because they have a manager who won't have anything else. Ole has to lay it on the line. All players have to put 100% in every game. If they had lost last night but had worked their socks off, you could say they were unlucky.

 

[Judas]

Martial has never worked hard, Rashford has. Which again makes me believe Ole is playing the latter through injury and he's being given the excuse to not work quite as hard as he physically can't. I don't see why he'd suddenly become lazy.

 

[Adcuth]

Rashford isn't an issue. Him on the left with Shaw playing the way he is are lethal. Martial is lazy and doesn't work as a no9. Cavani playing there causes all sorts of problems with his movement and pressing. This opens up space for Rashford and whoever is playing on the right to pick passes or shots. We win last night if cavani plays I think. I'd rather have Ings over Martial

 

[kafta]

I don't think Rashford has been the problem, granted there are games where he isn't completely on it. But more often than not he is trying to create or score.

Martial has been out of form for a very long time, and to be honest i'm not sure what he's offering right now. A 33 year old cavani does more running to press, and makes smarter runs constantly. For the first time, i'm thinking Martial may need to be upgraded on, though i hope im proven wrong.

We need our forwards scoring if we're gonna win anything this season.

 

[K stand Red]

Forgetting their deficiencies in defence and running etc lets also look at their attacking attributes which is there main role.

Towards the end of the game Pogba put in cross which flashed past the six yard box, with Cavani breaking his neck to get across the front post and as the camera panned out, where were are two other strikers who want to be numbers 9's, practically holding hands watching on from the 18 yard line of the box

You could see from Cavani's reaction he was not impressed

This happens way too often for either of them to be considered as a contender for a starting number 9 position

 

[spiriticon]

We can only cater for one of these 2 on the pitch at the same time. Not both.

Whoever is in form and working harder gets the nod.

 

[rron10]

Cavani at 34 seems far more hungry for success than Martial at 24. He just runs more, tracks back, seems more involved in everything.
Sad thing is that Greenwood seems to resemble more and more with "Anto" unfortunately.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I think no one is disagreeing that they have the physical and technical abilities to deliver at the highest level. The question is whether they are either lacking understanding/will on how to move off the ball (Martial) or decisionmaking on the ball (Rashford) or they are given bad instructions/not following instructions.

What will it take to improve this? Can it be improved?
Will a more systematic approach improve this? Would they play better in a team with (based on how it looks on the screen) a more defined way of playing?

In general, I think our "in possession/attacking play" is still left to individual moments, coincidence and Bruno And Rashford and Martial are the ones that affected the most. Martial needs clear instructions on how to move, press etc, and Rashford needs some guidelines on when/how passing, shooting, dribbling. Despite both having played on the senior level for a number of years, they still look like inexperienced teenagers with some of the stuff they do on the pitch. Martial always being half a second too late or one meter off. Rashford trying to dribble into a dead-end time after time.

It is frustrating to see two players with that level of individual abilities not being able to perform better.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Forgetting their deficiencies in defence and running etc lets also look at their attacking attributes which is there main role.

Towards the end of the game Pogba put in cross which flashed past the six yard box, with Cavani breaking his neck to get across the front post and as the camera panned out, where were are two other strikers who want to be numbers 9's, practically holding hands watching on from the 18 yard line of the box

You could see from Cavani's reaction he was not impressed

This happens way too often for either of them to be considered as a contender for a starting number 9 position

Been saying for ages that we do not have enough players who either break their necks to get into the box or are willing to or are able to pick up the scraps in the box. Love Cavani's attitude. The other two want to score Goal of the Month all the time. When a goal going in off your backside is just as important.

 

[croadyman]

Cavani at 34 seems far more hungry for success than Martial at 24. He just runs more, tracks back, seems more involved in everything.
Sad thing is that Greenwood seems to resemble more and more with "Anto" unfortunately.

Yeah that is a damning indictment on Tony when he's getting shown up by someone 10 years older, clearly Eddy was rattled with Ole not bringing him on quicker and had every right to give him daggers

 

[Steven-UK]

We can only cater for one of these 2 on the pitch at the same time. Not both.

Whoever is in form and working harder gets the nod.

Neither Martial or Rashford are good enough to lead the line - not if we want success. I've saying it on here for years. Both players are seriously overrated.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

It’s unfair to group Rashford with Martial. Martial has been truly awful this season and should be sold, while Rashford is just in a bad run of form.

	Rashford	Martial
Goals	7	2
Minutes per goal	233	576
Shot accuracy %	64.7	61.5
Assists	5	3
Chances created	8	10

Key passes per game

1

0.8

I do agree with you. I think it's just games like last night where two of your attacking players offer feck all all game, you tend to group them. I'd personally keep Rashford and give up on Martial.

 

[bsCallout]

If we had competition both should be dropped. Neither are good enough to be guaranteed starters.

 

[Garethw]

Rashford did not look fit last night. Stupid fecking decision to play him.

I’d be playing Lingard over Martial at the moment. At least he would run and track back.

 

[Kaos]

At this point I'd honestly take a chance with Diallo on the right, shove Rashford to the left and keep Cavani as our main talisman. If Diallo isn't anywhere near ready then I'd honestly take Dan James there until we sign someone or Diallo's ready to make the step up. At least James works hard, tracks back and has pace, even if he his an average footballer.

 

[drunkmonkmeth]

Martial and rashford should never play together as a 2 thats for sure.

I remember people were genuinely excited to see them pair up with greenwood.. but it doesnt work unless the opponent allows us to counter. They offer to much of the same.. non are poachers none can hold up the ball well non can be an ariel threat. having a striker who isnt just a winger who can score is huge in a team. Cavani is way past his best the even him offers so much more. Ifnwe want to win the title we need haland or someone who is a true 9.

 

[drunkmonkmeth]

Rashford did not look fit last night. Stupid fecking decision to play him.

I’d be playing Lingard over Martial at the moment. At least he would run and track back.

100% lingard is a huge improvement on the martial ive seen all season

 

[kouroux]

Neither Martial or Rashford are good enough to lead the line - not if we want success. I've saying it on here for years. Both players are seriously overrated.

For years ? Who were you ?

 

[RashyForPM]

I do agree with you. I think it's just games like last night where two of your attacking players offer feck all all game, you tend to group them. I'd personally keep Rashford and give up on Martial.

Same here. I love Rashford but I will freely admit that his performance was indefensible last night. However, no one can argue that Martial’s streaks of bad form lasts longer, his attitude has stank since bitching about losing the #9 (can’t deny I’ve never really warmed to him alone since) and his lowest level is Championship standard considering he’s been the worst starting striker in the league this season bar none.

Another thing I dislike about Martial is that he doesn’t respond well to competition. Why is it when there’s a truly quality striker, like a Zlatan, Lukaku or Cavani comes in to fight for his place, he bottles it and has an awful season? Can’t be a coincidence that his best seasons, last season and 2015-16, came when his competition was Ighalo and a declining Rooney who the previous season had already made his transition into a central midfielder. How can a player like that even play for Everton or Aston Villa, let alone us?

Meanwhile, you can tell Rashford really cares. He was rubbish last night but he’s just in a bad spell.

 

[Falcow]

Obviously kills me to blow smoke up an Arsenal player’s arse but when you watch Saka get the ball you just know he’ll do something positive and effective, 6 or 7 times out of 10. When you watch a top class striker in his prime like Harry Kane you can up that to 8 or 9 times out of 10.

With Rashford that drops to 4 or 5 times out of 10. Now those 4 or 5 times can be very impressive but the other 5 or 6 times are often painfully sloppy.

I don’t even want to think what sort of numbers Martial is putting up.

Greenwood has a long way to go but at least he takes care of the football. It’s bonkers how often the other two kill off our attacks.

So very true. I think its actually less than 4 out of 10 for Rashford. 1 or 2 maybe. He is shocking most of the time. Remember the stick Nani used to get for very occasionally losing the ball? Neither of these guys are fit to lace Nanis boots.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

At this point I'd honestly take a chance with Diallo on the right, shove Rashford to the left and keep Cavani as our main talisman. If Diallo isn't anywhere near ready then I'd honestly take Dan James there until we sign someone or Diallo's ready to make the step up. At least James works hard, tracks back and has pace, even if he his an average footballer.

Or Mata on the right. Or Pogba. Basically any XI that doesn’t include Martial will be a better team than our starting line-up last night.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So very true. I think its actually less than 4 out of 10 for Rashford. 1 or 2 maybe. He is shocking most of the time. Remember the stick Nani used to get for very occasionally losing the ball? Neither of these guys are fit to lace Nanis boots.

Dunno how old you are but Nani had slumps in form much longer and deeper than anything we’ve seen from Rashford this season or last. At his peak (when he was nearly 3 years older than Rashford is now) he had an excellent season or two before losing it again, for no obvious reason. I would be very surprised if Rashford doesn’t go on to have a better career at United.

 

[Falcow]

Thought experiment for a second.

Imagine you saw Rashford playing for Villa or Brighton or Everton...would his general performance level have you suggesting that this was a Man Utd standard player? I’d say absolutely not. There’s the odd moment of magic. There’s the direct running and good feet which can be effective on the counter. However, overall, his ability to influence games in tight areas or with his back to goal is non-existent

I don’t even want to talk about Martial. Such a disappointment. I was at that game vs Liverpool when he scored on his debut and he hasn’t progressed one bit. He was world class at 18 (for his age) and is now a mediocre 25 year old with a terrible attitude and no fire in his belly. I knew his game was over after three minutes when he took that kick. Towel in.

Agree with this completely. Rashford might be ok as an impact sub but I cannot bear watching him play for 90 mins. Possibly the most frustrating player i have seen play for united. His ability to squander possession is second to none, Bruno pushing him on that front howver at the moment.

Martial really needs to be sold.

 

[Falcow]

Dunno how old you are but Nani had slumps in form much longer and deeper than anything we’ve seen from Rashford this season or last. At his peak (when he was nearly 3 years older than Rashford is now) he had an excellent season or two before losing it again, for no obvious reason. I would be very surprised if Rashford doesn’t go on to have a better career at United.

Plenty old enough unfortunately. Dont know, I take you point, he has age on his side and I guess Nani had better players around him but Nani was for me a better wide player than Rashford, who is considered more striker than winger and vica versa for Nani so apples and oranges I guess as well.

Yeah he may gone on to have the better career but he needs to show improvement.

 

[eire-red]

I think Rashford gets a lot of stick for his work rate, and sometimes rightly so. He doesn't get 'stuck in' as much as he used to. However, the amount of runs that Rashford makes off camera is something we forget about. How often do you hear that mentioned in commentary?

Or when he was moved to the right last night he was making constant runs against their full back to create space for AWB. He is our only threat in behind, 9 times out of 10. When he doesn't play we have zero penetration. See West Ham away for a perfect illustration.

With Martial, you don't see any of that. Last night he just let the entire game bypass him. There was a point where he just stood still for about a minute and watched as Cavani and Bruno tried to make something happen. It's inexcusable really, I can't fathom that lack of desire?

I think a poster said it perfectly before, we can't afford to carry both of them in games anymore. However, at least Rashford offers something more often than not. This season with Martial, it's been a highlight reel of sulking and half arsed performances.

 

[red woppit]

Rashford has not played consistantly well since his back injury, he looked a top player back then, but for whatever reason he's not been the same. To me he needs a complete break for a few weeks, he looks jaded.
Martial I've always felt, would get back to his best after a slow start to this season, but we're still waiting for this to happen. If he doesn't, then we need to sell in the summer and but for now we need both to play some matches, and hopefully Diallo can get some minutes before the end of season, and possibly Elanga as well. Cavani and Greenwood should play most matches, with James and Mata fitting in now and again.

 

[croadyman]

If we had competition both should be dropped. Neither are good enough to be guaranteed starters.

Yeah that is the bloody frustrating thing we are forced to play two out of form players due to not enough options

 

[MyBloodIsRed]

I love Rashy bout man the kid looks like he’s not healthy and trying the same little tricks and flicks that aren’t coming off. If you aren’t healthy your brain knows it. I think that’s impacting his decision making. Rash needs 2-3 games out (no subbing) to get his mind and body right

I’d like to see rashford and martial both benched to start arsenal. Won’t happen but man they need it. DDG should be benched too. Woeful command of his area.

 

[Fitchett]

Yes, Mourinho was right, either one of Rashford or Martial playing as a left sided attacker, not both. The situation now is that it has to be an off form Rashford is a much better bet than a no effort or interest Martial. We need to sell Martial in the summer - he's 25, this is his sixth season here and he sulks every time we buy a good striker for him to compete with. Get rid, while we can still con someone into paying a decent price for him. Inter again?

 

[croadyman]

Rashford has not played consistantly well since his back injury, he looked a top player back then, but for whatever reason he's not been the same. To me he needs a complete break for a few weeks, he looks jaded.
Martial I've always felt, would get back to his best after a slow start to this season, but we're still waiting for this to happen. If he doesn't, then we need to sell in the summer and but for now we need both to play some matches, and hopefully Diallo can get some minutes before the end of season, and possibly Elanga as well. Cavani and Greenwood should play most matches, with James and Mata fitting in now and again.

Tony doesn't play games for me until he shows that he has the hunger to play for this club