VidaRed
Unimaginative FC
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 29,612
Rashford offers much more than martial.
I'd even be happy with ole leading the line instead of martial.
I'd even be happy with ole leading the line instead of martial.
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Yeah he definitely doesRashford offers much more than martial.
I'd even be happy with ole leading the line instead of martial.
And why does rashford get the free pass, english, playing at bob geldof, (funny thing bout that, its what he ex drug dealing agent also did when he wanted to improve his name and status) as he never tracks back, gives the ball away and waves his arms about ordering people to run, yet he won't, and when he does get the ball half the time he looks for the backwards safe pass.Tony doesn't play games for me until he shows that he has the hunger to play for this club
The last thing we need is a spice boy or another wildly inconsistent youngster.They both have been a problem for years now. The problem we have is we don’t have anyone capable who can challenge them except Cavani. This is why we should go all out and get either Grealish or Sancho or someone. Rashford and Martial should not be without proper competition to their places in the first eleven.
I would go as far as to say Martial should be sold. I’ve had enough of him.
The spice boy is in his prime and has been much more productive than either Martial or Rashford has.The last thing we need is a spice boy or another wildly inconsistent youngster.
We need a forward in his prime if we want to win things
Agree with you in general. I think the difference between nani and rashford is nani qas a genuinely talented technical footballer, who had erratic decision making and workrate. Rashford is one of the worst players in terms of basic ball control, technical consistency, passing , and even other basic skills like heading that ive seen wear the 10 shirt which used to be given to the best technician.Plenty old enough unfortunately. Dont know, I take you point, he has age on his side and I guess Nani had better players around him but Nani was for me a better wide player than Rashford, who is considered more striker than winger and vica versa for Nani so apples and oranges I guess as well.
Yeah he may gone on to have the better career but he needs to show improvement.
I don't see them as a problem. Our biggest problem is still that right flank. It makes us attempt to use Martial and Rashford on that flank contributing to their inconsistency.Supremely talented players and when they play well we look superb going forward. But, let’s be honest, they’ve been pretty rubbish so far this season. At the end of the day they are both very inconsistent. So is it any surprise that our attacking football is inconsistent too?
I think a team can carry one “yong and lernin” player up front but we shouldn’t be so reliant on two of them. And not without a really top quality, third attacker - in his prime - up front with them (i.e. someone considerably better than James or Mata)
Are there any other top teams so reliant on young/flaky players in such important positions?
Discuss.
You can often tell the likely trajectory of a player long before their peak. He’s 22 but he’s has had a lot of top level exposure. Coming though our academy is the only reason why people think he will become top class with age. Deep down we both suspect this site will be full of people saying the same thing when he’s 29 if he’s still at the club then.Marcus Rashford was 22 years old at the start of this season. Think about that for a moment. Then think about where all those players on that list were playing football at the same age. The penny will drop, eventually.
so true. If our right wasn’t so redundant, we wouldn’t be forced to attack constantly down the left and subsequently relieve the burden from Rashford/Martial. That said they have both been poor for a while now.I don't see them as a problem. Our biggest problem is still that right flank. It makes us attempt to use Martial and Rashford on that flank contributing to their inconsistency.
Second that.Yeah he definitely does
Maybe the problem is that Martial is a bit shit?so true. If our right wasn’t so redundant, we wouldn’t be forced to attack constantly down the left and subsequently relieve the burden from Rashford/Martial. That said they have both been poor for a while now.
I’m not suggesting Amad is our saviour but I can’t wait to see him on the right. An actual outlet on that side would do wonders for our attacking balance. Not helped however by AWB being awful going forward
that as wellMaybe the problem is that Martial is a bit shit?
Even if you never watched Rashford play his goals and assists stats show a trajectory that is perfectly satisfactory. And way better than we ever saw with, say, Welbeck. Obviously, breaking his fecking back halfway through last season isn’t ideal for the development of any young footballer. Hence he should be cut a bit of slack. And that means not lumping him in with a bunch of former players who never came close to his sustained contributions to the team, after a his first rough patch for the team.You can often tell the likely trajectory of a player long before their peak. He’s 22 but he’s has had a lot of top level exposure. Coming though our academy is the only reason why people think he will become top class with age. Deep down we both suspect this site will be full of people saying the same thing when he’s 29 if he’s still at the club then.
“He’ll come good he just needs time “
Martial won’t get that level of protection as he isn’t an academy player. Memories of the Class of 92 means too many fans are afraid of not backing academy players. Which is great but more often than not over the years has led to many ridiculous situations where Cleverley, Welbeck, Richardson, Lingard and many more have been given the exact same treatment Rashford is now despitelooking back it was undeniable for a long timebefore people admitted it that they were, relatively, poor players for this level.
There’s giving people time and there’s refusing to see what’s obvious. With both players there’s really very unlikely to be a sudden improvement based on the fact neither look like a player a couple of improvements away from being beasts. They look like players who struggle far too much far too often with fairly basic stuff.
Writing off young players too soon is bad. So is “let’s not judge them at all until they’re 29” though
This is what I was thinking soon.I don't see them as a problem. Our biggest problem is still that right flank. It makes us attempt to use Martial and Rashford on that flank contributing to their inconsistency.
Tbf, he was never a grafter, our Tony. This should pretty clear by now to anyone concerned. I keep reading people's comments about how Cavani, at 33, runs, tackles and covers the whole pitch like he's got a second pair of lungs in him. He always did that though, it has always been a part of his mindset as a footballer and he has kept his body in good shape so that he can continue doing it. Sometimes, it's just a matter of perspective. You wouldn't ask Berbatov to track back fullbacks and outmuscle the brawny British centre-halves, would you? And even if you wished for it and implored him to do it, your prayers would probably fall on deaf ears. Some footballers, some people in general, are what they are. There's no point berating them for this.I think that Martial’s attitude problem is a result of everything coming too easy for him at a young age.
Think about it. The lad was transferred for £7m at 16 back in about 2012/2013 which would have been huge money then. The hype would have been insane. It would have been hard for a 16yo not to let that go to his head.
Then he is transferred to Utd for a fee that could reach over £50m at 18. Scores a fantastic goal on his debut against our biggest rivals in-front of the Stretford End. Once again, all just seems to be happening very naturally and easy for him.
Somewhere around the 19/20 mark, it stopped being so easy and he started having to work hard and that’s when I believe his progress stalled. He’s doesn’t want to run or fight or work-hard when the going gets tough.
I say it constantly to myself and to teammates when I am playing football - if you’re having a bad game and your touch is off, claw yourself into the game by working twice as hard.
Win a header. Win a tackle. Close an opponent down and force a mistake. Sprint back. Sprint forward. Block a shot. None of these things require talent or for you to be on top of your game. If you do those things, even if you continue to struggle with the ball at least you will be contributing. Best case, you gain confidence and start playing really well with and without the ball.
Martial doesn’t do any of that. You can tell whether he is going to have a good or a bad game by his body language. Skulking about the pitch. Idle demeanour. Doesn’t sprint, in fact, barely raises a jog. Hold up play weak...and he just gives up.
I think its time for some tough love. I appreciate that in the modern game players are different and its harder to bend them to your will by force. However, look at the difference in Pogba after Ole left him out for a few weeks. The message is clear - we’re Man Utd, you play our way or you don’t play, whoever you are.
He might be the player we need but is he the person we need?The spice boy is in his prime and has been much more productive than either Martial or Rashford has.
Good post. Maybe this is it. He just doesn't have that fight in him, it seems. Not really sure what can be done.I think that Martial’s attitude problem is a result of everything coming too easy for him at a young age.
Think about it. The lad was transferred for £7m at 16 back in about 2012/2013 which would have been huge money then. The hype would have been insane. It would have been hard for a 16yo not to let that go to his head.
Then he is transferred to Utd for a fee that could reach over £50m at 18. Scores a fantastic goal on his debut against our biggest rivals in-front of the Stretford End. Once again, all just seems to be happening very naturally and easy for him.
Somewhere around the 19/20 mark, it stopped being so easy and he started having to work hard and that’s when I believe his progress stalled. He’s doesn’t want to run or fight or work-hard when the going gets tough.
I say it constantly to myself and to teammates when I am playing football - if you’re having a bad game and your touch is off, claw yourself into the game by working twice as hard.
Win a header. Win a tackle. Close an opponent down and force a mistake. Sprint back. Sprint forward. Block a shot. None of these things require talent or for you to be on top of your game. If you do those things, even if you continue to struggle with the ball at least you will be contributing. Best case, you gain confidence and start playing really well with and without the ball.
Martial doesn’t do any of that. You can tell whether he is going to have a good or a bad game by his body language. Skulking about the pitch. Idle demeanour. Doesn’t sprint, in fact, barely raises a jog. Hold up play weak...and he just gives up.
I think its time for some tough love. I appreciate that in the modern game players are different and its harder to bend them to your will by force. However, look at the difference in Pogba after Ole left him out for a few weeks. The message is clear - we’re Man Utd, you play our way or you don’t play, whoever you are.
Just to be clear, i'm not saying that he doesn't deserve the bench. I'm suggesting that we've gone into the season expecting Martial to be able to lead the line and therefore the manager's insistence on him makes sense. At least until next summer when we'll be able to reassess our plan.I appreciate the point that @redevilsadvocate is making. That said, if a player with whatever attitudes and attributes consistently fails to deliver end product, he needs to be benched.
Maybe that benching can be brief. Perhaps a few matches off can light a fire so that when Martial comes on the 76th minute and turns in a worthy performance, he can go back to the starting XI. But we — well, the manager — can’t allow this kind of shocking form to plague the rest of this season and through next season.
Yeah, as per the OP, it’s a real problem. Having two players up front in 90% of our games who both regularly stink the place up is incompatible with winning the league.Case in point again tonight. So many squandered chances and just not clinical enough.
Moments of brilliance, more so from Rashford (not on about tonight’s game) but I don’t think either can take us back to the title leading the line.