I don't think that midfield of Keane and Effenberg can be beaten really. They'll be everywhere.
Redcafe Champions League Draft QF2 - Ralaks v EDogen
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
They have to. Evra-Giggs is a stronger flank than Rafael-Beckham, and Ferrara-Robben is more solid and as dangerous as Capdevila-Overmars. Then there's the no small business of getting the ball off Zidane and tracking Luis Enrique's runs. A lesser midfield and this would surely be a landslide for EDogen.
I don't agree that Robben-Ferrara is more solid, maybe if Robben actually did help out, but it'll be Ferrara alone, all the time, I feel this is one of the defining match ups of the game now, I believe my left side will overpower his right side, Robben is notorious for being a slacker which enables me to turn it into a 2 v 1 situation, this will mean Nesta or Hierro will have to help out which will leave room for Nistelrooy and he is fantastic at attacking the space.
Inspired change by him for sure, but I still feel like I will win the midfield battle, which is the most important part of most games, IMO. Simeone will have to focus a lot on stopping Del Piero too, so it's not like they'll be just against Keane & Effenberg.
Moving Zidane further away and somewhat isolating RVP only works the better for me I think. Campbell and Stam will be able to contain him.
Inspired change by him for sure, but I still feel like I will win the midfield battle, which is the most important part of most games, IMO. Simeone will have to focus a lot on stopping Del Piero too, so it's not like they'll be just against Keane & Effenberg.
Moving Zidane further away and somewhat isolating RVP only works the better for me I think. Campbell and Stam will be able to contain him.
The 2v1 is a fair point to be honest. I don't rate Capdevila very highly, but he will indeed provide Overmars with the necessary support to get past Ferrara.
I do however always prefer having the right fullback (one that can cope/deal with their direct threat) over whether there is a 2v1. Robben doesn't need to be 2v1 to piss all over Capdevila, and the same applies to Rafa with Giggs.
I do however always prefer having the right fullback (one that can cope/deal with their direct threat) over whether there is a 2v1. Robben doesn't need to be 2v1 to piss all over Capdevila, and the same applies to Rafa with Giggs.
I see my change has had an effect. I´m now back in the game and positive energy is flowing in my team after the comeback.
Luis Enrique and Zidane making Keane and Effenberg working hard in the middle, leaving Giggs/Evra and Robben to tear his full backs apart and get the game winner from out wide.
Luis Enrique and Zidane making Keane and Effenberg working hard in the middle, leaving Giggs/Evra and Robben to tear his full backs apart and get the game winner from out wide.
Think EDogen has a slight advantage in the wings. I am not comfortable in discussing Rafael with the rest of the players. He has the potential, but is nowhere near the status of the rest of the players currently. He also has the advantage in Overmars vs Ferra and Robben vs Capdevila battles.
Yeah, we have seen it against top players that he has had problems and now facing one of the greatest left wingers with Giggs in his prime (and also Evra who in his prime was working that left flank all day long). A lot to ask for young Rafa for sure.
Excellent comeback!
Well played EDogen. Tactical switch paying off it seems. I think I'm going for you, just. Keane-Effenburg is hard to vote against mind.
Was down 10-5 when I made the change and now victory 15-12, very happy with that.
And I learned some things about my team also, good match this!
Thanks Ralaks for a great game and thank you to all the voters in this game.
And I learned some things about my team also, good match this!
Thanks Ralaks for a great game and thank you to all the voters in this game.
I agree, he had Ramos on the bench and it was a no brainer for me that he should start ahead of Raf.
He is obviously a bit of a cnut but I fancy him to have a better chance against a prime Giggsy than Rafael.
What's the story behind Edogen picking Pires for the bench? Just a case of no one better being available?
Yeah well played. Game changing moment, thought I had the game when I was up 10-4 at one point.
I had Pires, RvN and Angloma down as potential picks. Wanted Robben instead of Pires in this game in any case.
Yeah, and not many votes left to play on. Happy that I did go with the change early. Guess who I will lay my hands on now?
Well done mate, I'd take Keane.
I would also take Keano, weakest part of you team I think is midfield and there are some awesome CM's in the game
Keano the only pick of course 
You will take some stopping with Keane now in the team
Yup, only 'weakness' (if you can call it that) would be Van Persie up front, add someone like Ronaldo in front of Zidane and its
I think it was Rafael who let you down. Should have played Ramos instead.
Typical Rafael !
How are you going to go about playing him though? Benching Hierro and playing Lucho at RB?Keano the only pick of course
Keane won the CL. Buffon-Simeone-Luis Enrique-van Persie cannot leave the pitch.
The only way you can realistically start Keane is by downgrading from Robben to Pires on the right. Shoot down your right wing threat altogether for the upgrade from Simeone to Keane? Mmmmm...
Come the next round you will again have the same problem...
I would seriously consider Campbell with all that in mind.
Depends if we drop it to 3 non CL winners, because this seems unfair to me. If he beat (Tito) Ronaldo or (Akash) Romario it would be fine, he just takes out Van Persie no bother and his team looks great. But he drew Ralaks who's best player is a CL winner so that goes against EDogen as he can't upgrade his weakish midfield anywhere near as easliy. I've PMed the other managers so we will see what the consensus is.
Yeah, in the rules from the start it was:
- For the semifinal the number of non-CL winners is reduced to three. As these later picks are not made from a pool of players, it helps prevent one team having an advantage over an other when making their pick, i.e. one winner faces a team with Ronaldo, the other one with Zidane.
I was always playing after that rule.
The rule wasn't there from the start. Theon mentioned it a while ago in a convo and I told him I had never noticed it. It had been incorporated late in the draft or even after it (not sure) and he had failed to flag it to everyone.
I mentioned he should consult with you all but he saw it looked liked a possible minefield and deleted assuming no one had actually read it.
Now it comes up again based on "luck of the draw". There has always been luck of the draw in this, it's part of the calculated risks you take. I started the 50s draft with an unknown striker assuming I would pick one on the way to the final and the best I came across was Preben Elkjaer. Tough.
Personally, while I see the sense in the rule I disagree with it being incorporated after the drafting started. Some teams clearly went on a limb to afford themselves flexibility in these latter stages, others didn't. It was clear from the off, I even mentioned it on the thread and indicated who would have trouble and nahealai -I think- told me off for flagging it.
Now a rule comes out of the woodwork to save all those who stockpiled CL winners without a care in the world.
Not fair on Gio and Fergus'son, not at all. They may say they are fine with it, but they shouldn't.
I mentioned he should consult with you all but he saw it looked liked a possible minefield and deleted assuming no one had actually read it.
Now it comes up again based on "luck of the draw". There has always been luck of the draw in this, it's part of the calculated risks you take. I started the 50s draft with an unknown striker assuming I would pick one on the way to the final and the best I came across was Preben Elkjaer. Tough.
Personally, while I see the sense in the rule I disagree with it being incorporated after the drafting started. Some teams clearly went on a limb to afford themselves flexibility in these latter stages, others didn't. It was clear from the off, I even mentioned it on the thread and indicated who would have trouble and nahealai -I think- told me off for flagging it.
Now a rule comes out of the woodwork to save all those who stockpiled CL winners without a care in the world.
Not fair on Gio and Fergus'son, not at all. They may say they are fine with it, but they shouldn't.
Like I told Theon, I'm not too fussed. But for what it's worth, whenever I've checked the OP, that rule was mentioned. I don't get the impression that it's come out of the woodwork. It certainly was in there when picking players in the second drafting process. Why was it removed in the first place?
Yeah it got deleted and then I spoke to you about it, I agree with everything you say about it being a possible minefield, though do think it is a good rule - but it depends what the others think.
It's not about stockpiling CL winners though as there are very few top drawer ones to go around, it is more about the luck in drawing an opponent who has one that you want.
Like I said with Ronaldo (this was before I got drawn against TITO) he is just the perfect person to get drawn against because you can add him straight away without changing your team, but most of the others dont have the same ability. TITO is a bit screwed in going against me, EDogen/Ralaks were screwed etc, which is just down to luck.
Not sure really, at the beginning of the draft thought it would be too easy and noone had relied on it yet as it was obviously well before the quarter finals. But like Anto said it hadn't been discussed so someone might have disagreed with it, I always wanted it in though but after talking with Antohan just took it out.
I'm not bothered myself because I am actually up against Ronaldo so he can slip in for Crespo and it's all good..
I do think it is fairer though, if I got drawn against Ralaks for example I wouldn't have it anywhere near as easy as against TITO in terms of picking a player - same for everybody else.
Must say, I generally agree with this but I'm not too fussed. I probably would've picked a different goalkeeper if I knew of this rule change earlier though and and the fact that Batigol, Thuram and Ayala were non CL winners did contribute to them being my first three picks, so I could have easy ride drafting from then on.
The only way I would be genuinely happy about the rule change was if we could pick more than me from our opponent from now on, but even then that's another rule change coming pretty late in the day.
It was there throughout the second drafting indeed. I would have thought rules like that have to be there from the outset though (the gameplan is set at the outset, surely), which is why I suggested to Theon that he flags that to all managers and asks for their views on it. He assumed no one would have read it anyway as there was no need to re-read the rules and someone would have flagged the "new rule".
I can see the logic behind the rule, it just should have been there to begin with! As Theon himself points out, he didn't include it because it looked like it would be too easy... some people had the forethought to see they would need room for manoeuvre, some didn't. It's not just better management, there was a cost associated in foregoing CL picks and bringing forward non-CL ones. Ayala on round 3, for example. Loads of CBs as good as him went much later, but Fergus used up his third pick on future-proofing. Now the future-proofing is worthless? Not right.
I agree with you again, but disagree with this part because Fergus only has three top tier non-CL winners, so Ayala was still a great pick. If he had four it would be different, but he only has three.
I'm not saying it wasn't a good pick, just not necessarily a third round one in a position where there are stacks of players. Some managers placed a greater "premium" on the non-CL status and the basis for determining that "premium" are now being changed. It's simply not right.
This rule is not much different from the 3-Foreign quota. Imagine how happy clubs would have been if suddenly halfway through a season UEFA went "feck it, let's let people play with four". It's game-changing.
This rule is not much different from the 3-Foreign quota. Imagine how happy clubs would have been if suddenly halfway through a season UEFA went "feck it, let's let people play with four". It's game-changing.
All three of my first picks were in some way influenced by being non CL winners, so was the Aimar pick which I thought would give me flexibility with future picks if need be. Im happy with all my non CL winners, but wether I would've opted for them ahead of certain CL winners if the rule wasn't in place I can't say for sure, the fact that Batigol was a non winner made my mind up between him and Figo for example.
Got your eyes on Ronaldo/Redondo?
You know me too well!
Was also just pointing out that it would actually give me a chance of making use of the other proposed rule change and try to get a better quality keeper with CL medal.
Yeah that makes sense, depends what the others think but I will go along with the consensus. I guess Gio will have the same opinion as you because he has loads of non-CL winners in his team
I understand that it might be unfair to change. But in the same time when I was reading the OP it was there and I have been planning all my draft on that rule.
Theon, could you clarify when exactly the rule was first part of the OP?
It was in at the beginning very shortly when I wrote it up but got deleted as we thought it would be too easy, then came in properly at the start of the first round when it became clear that there was a lack of top-tier non winners to go around - meaning that some people would get lucky with their opponents.
Then it stayed in till I spoke with Anto about it a few days ago.
Then it stayed in till I spoke with Anto about it a few days ago.
Picking two is an interesting one... it puts those who planned better for the CL-quota back in the driving seat, probably more so than it should. All the others will likely pick two with a view to only being able to play one, while they can just take a couple of 1st/2nd round picks straight into the side.
At that point you have to consider EDogen's counterargument as well, that he always planned on this basis.
You certainyl have made a meal of it.