Nah that doesn't have some of their best players in it.Not this one?
They played a proper 5-3-2 with wingbacks, with Sammer as a sweeper/libero
RedCafe Champions League Draft - TheGame v EDogen
- Thread starter Theon
- Start date
They played a proper 5-3-2 with wingbacks, with Sammer as a sweeper/libero
I don't really know any teams that do it. Basically it's a DM who drops into CB when required?
Hard to think of any modern players who play that way, I think it would be extremely hard to play in practise, because the positioning of the two CB's would need to change with an extra defender dropping in and out.
You are misusing him though. This is the sort of end to end stuff he revels in.
Most of the game and discussion has revolved around what Zé Roberto and López could do doubling up on your right back and what Robben could do at the other end. What better CM to have on that side of the pitch than arguably the best box-to-box in the draft (the best as far as attacking is concerned)?
His stamina, determination and workrate were second to none. He has been tracking that flank the entire half like a man possessed making up for the fact Ferrara won't attack and Robben won't defend. What do you do? Send him to the corner flag and "tighten the midfield" with Hierro.
Hierro won't tighten jackshit, this is not a game being played out in midfield, it's a game that requires a Luis Enrique in midfield, not a Hierro. Hierro or Simeone next to Luis Enrique is fine (in fact, necessary to unleash him), but never them two ahead of him.
And he is now also upset you call him Enrique. His name is Luis Enrique and his surname is Martínez.
Most of the game and discussion has revolved around what Zé Roberto and López could do doubling up on your right back and what Robben could do at the other end. What better CM to have on that side of the pitch than arguably the best box-to-box in the draft (the best as far as attacking is concerned)?
His stamina, determination and workrate were second to none. He has been tracking that flank the entire half like a man possessed making up for the fact Ferrara won't attack and Robben won't defend. What do you do? Send him to the corner flag and "tighten the midfield" with Hierro.
Hierro won't tighten jackshit, this is not a game being played out in midfield, it's a game that requires a Luis Enrique in midfield, not a Hierro. Hierro or Simeone next to Luis Enrique is fine (in fact, necessary to unleash him), but never them two ahead of him.
And he is now also upset you call him Enrique. His name is Luis Enrique and his surname is Martínez.
The two CBs effectively act as cover for the fullback/wingback, it requires them being adept at covering that more than usual. Leverkusen did it very successfully with Ramelow and so did Germany in 2002 played that way IIRC, Brazil in 2002 with Edmilson... Barcelona have been doing variations on that, although they are even riskier and revolve around Mascherano bein a CB that turns into a DM, leaving only one genuine CB...
It's been around for ages. The logic initially was that you had a sweeper behind two CBs delaing with two upfront, then those two turned to one upfront making three at the back rather redundant so the sweeper turned into a DM who could drop into a three to cover for marauding wingbacks... With teams going back to flat fours and cogesting midfields that "drop back" option has all but disappeared and the old sweeper has finally turned into a full time DM anchor, if that.
Didn't Hierro score 20 goals in a season from midfield for Real? I like him there, winning the ball back alongside Simeone, spraying those raking passes out to the wings as The Game commits his wing backs forward. Decent switch imo, and he wins for me based on a rock solid defence and great balance across his team. Hard luck on The Game though, who assembled a superb attack and argued his case very well.
Yeah I think it's a fine switch. Enrique gets to dominate a flank and overlap Robben, while Hierro gets to dictate from the centre of midfield. And it was 29 goals he scored there back in '91/92, which is a sensational return really for a deep-lying midfielder.
He did score 20+ (very different sort of goals as well), so from the outset I was excited at the prospect of Hierro and Luis Enrique as a midfield pair. I even hinted that EDogen may want to get a further midfielder to use Hierro at CB and Ferrara at RB (or Luis Enrique at RB) if needed, so I was all for him picking Simeone up.
I do find Luis Enrique's strengths are being overlooked though, he is the ideal man for that RCM slot in this game in particular. It's got nothing to do with Hierro being good or bad, it's just Luis Enrique should be there.
That's a phenomenal return. I must try to track down and watch a few of his full matches from that season. I seen him much more regularly as a centre back but if the rest of his game was as good as I remember it being that must have been a truly seminal season for a midfielder.
Thats a fair point and I know how highly you rate Luis Enrique but I see the logic in using him to overload that right wing at this stage in the game. Moving forward in the draft Edogen's in a brilliant position if he goes through because of the versatility of Hierro, Luis Enrique and Ferrara. All top notch players as well, not just guys that can fill a gap.
Waking up seeing that my tactical change has done well. Indeed I have great options with Hierro, Ferrara and Enrique!
Vítor Baía vs Deco, very though choice...
Decided to play a sweeper to allow cover against any counters and when attacking he could bring the ball out like at Ajax. Think will get more joy with Enrique at RB with Ze Roberto and Lopez drifting left, we know Robben doesn't track back. Good engine with Di Livio in midfield, this shape allows front 3 more freedom with cover behind.
Very happy with that win and thank you TheGame for a great game. Also thanks for all the votes!
Feel you had a good team, but maybe a little to many less known names even though they were very good players in their prime.
Still feel that the win is right for me though.
Looking forward to add some new players to my team after the round is complete.
Feel you had a good team, but maybe a little to many less known names even though they were very good players in their prime.
Still feel that the win is right for me though.
Looking forward to add some new players to my team after the round is complete.
Good win EDogen, and also a good day out at the voting lab switching your players around and testing reactions. Maybe it wasn't tight enough for it to translate into votes, but despite my shit-stirring efforts no one seemed to give a rat's about the switches either way. Bodes well for the future.
Good effort TheGame, many a manager would have given up at 15-7. I would have probably given up much earlier when I noticed I was being forced to write how Nesta was perhaps better than Simic. Get a core three with more ooomph next time!
Good effort TheGame, many a manager would have given up at 15-7. I would have probably given up much earlier when I noticed I was being forced to write how Nesta was perhaps better than Simic. Get a core three with more ooomph next time!
That was the main reason for my change actually! Also the pick of Sagna feels quite retarded now!
Great game and well played EDogen and good luck for the rest of the draft. I'm disappointed at the gap in votes as I thought it was much closer. I agree that some of my players were perhaps not popular than others while they did have the same quality e.g. Simic is a quality centre half but didn't get the votes. I've taken the feedback on board and look forward to participating in the next draft.
Thanks to my voters as well.
I was joking when I said "curtains for you" and thought you were as well when you said that's what you were thinking. It always made more sense to get an extra midfielder and manage it that way until you get a top RB.Lab testing is quite fun, I remember in the All-time one I started with a very sophisticated arrow-spaghetti formation which i did think was the best way to play it and -most important- something I thought would tell me a lot about 2-3 players going forward. At 3-1 down Aldo was imploring me to change it, yet I stuck to it up to 6-1 or so. Test, failed.
feckng hell Anto, you didn't half go on in this one!
Well done on the win EDogen
And TheGame showed a lot of spirit. Good match
And TheGame showed a lot of spirit. Good match
I thought you played the game quite well and I would have voted for you if I had waited for the change in tactics.
Something i mentioned on the first page but i think it is worth bringing attention to.
The voting pattern usually doesn't reflect how close games could be. Then again, if one team has a clear edge despite it being close the voting pattern would be quite distorted, as the winner is clear.
Maybe voters should be asked to give a scoreline, and then see how it adds up.
Maybe voters should be asked to give a scoreline, and then see how it adds up.
You had a great team, built in a nice way. This is my fourth draft so I have learned some things along the way!
First draft was surely the one I made the most mistakes/had the worst team in.
The final score is unfair even though Edogen is the deserved winner imo. Can be such fine margins in this, thegame was only a couple of minor upgrades away from having a very strong side.
Goes to show it isn't just my games I go on and on about stuff
It just looked quite dead and buried and I thought there were some interesting discussion to be had, particularly re: three at the back with a sweeper or DM-cum-CB. With so many sides likely to deploy diamonds it needs to be addressed at some point.
I guess a lot of the managers are keeping their cards close to their chest rather than commit to discussing the merits (or not) of certain tactics.
That would introduce a greater margin for error and impact from random and bizarre voter perspectives. It does happen every now and then that a scoreline doesn't reflect how close one game is, it's somewhat irrelevant anyway and much better this way than with a single moron's 10-1 deciding the outcome of a game.
I once lost a final because one chap was upset at something I had said in another thread about a player. That single vote in the last minute resulted in a draw and the casting vote also went against me. Single votes are more than enough power!
Yups, I thought a diamond would have suited him better from the outset and had he drafted with that in mind he would have taken it to the wire. You never know who you will face though, which is why it is important to pick players who give you flexibility (the likes of Hierro, Luis Enrique, CBs who are also fullbacks, etc.).