Redcafe Sheep Draft QF2 - Cutch vs Thisistheone

[Cutch]

Ah right, fair enough!

Glad you made it to the station bog on time though Cutch!

Losing to sudden death penalties and shitting my pants would have been too much to take for one afternoon.

 

[Thisistheone]

Reading through it again, was really quality drama from Aldo. And then this comment made it:

Standing on a railway line bustin for a shit and with this going on. Stressed isn't the word

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Congrats Tito!

Great game Cutch!

 

[Thisistheone]

Cheers!

Thanks to all who voted

 

[Isotope]

Ah, bollocks, had been keeping this throughout the shootout for the right moment:

I was hoping he got his move to Real. Meh..

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Cracking game. Next is Pippa against Pol which wouldn't be any less tight I'd say!

It's impossible to match how tight this match was. Great work both TITO and Cutch.

 

[Cutch]

Great learning experience these draft games as always, but the player i found most interesting when researching this game was Savicevic. He looked a fantastic player.

Some of these players from the Balkans like Prosinecki, Boban, Stoijkovic, Mijatovic and Suker had such natural talent and flair, and it seems they're all very underrated. What a team you could make out of all those.

 

[Moby]

Can't believe there were people who thought one neutral vote would be a better way to decide these games than penalties. Who came up with the penalty idea? fecking brilliant drama. Great job with the commentary as well, Aldo.

We had the first shootout in the game where I was against Brwned (worst 24 hours of my internet life by far) and we used it. Before that everytime I proposed it it was rejected as people didn't want random luck to decide games. So just had a posted chosen by both to decide. That was quite boring but then the ones who were involved in the tie had the say and Brwned instantly agreed for this method and since then it has carried on.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Great learning experience these draft games as always, but the player i found most interesting when researching this game was Savicevic. He looked a fantastic player.

Some of these players from the Balkans like Prosinecki, Boban, Stoijkovic, Mijatovic and Suker had such natural talent and flair, and it seems they're all very underrated. What a team you could make out of all those.

What I love about their flair is that they often combine it with an odd type of physique. Stamina, Strength, Pace, Acceleration, Work-rate.....Stoichkov is a perfect example of the style I am on about.

It feels like a style rarely seen outside of those areas, somehow physically they look like they shouldn't technical.

 

[Isotope]

Voted for Cutch as I think his players, especially attacking side, have won and proven more in highest level (a point that Cuthc should empasized, imho. I didn't mention this before, as not to be seen as in TOTAL bias for any side).
But TITO's also deserve it by having Savicevic and Scholes, and has the balls to partner him with Deco (underrated player, imho). In fact, I voted his on the first round.

 

[Cutch]

We had the first shootout in the game where I was against Brwned (worst 24 hours of my internet life by far) and we used it. Before that everytime I proposed it it was rejected as people didn't want random luck to decide games. So just had a posted chosen by both to decide. That was quite boring but then the ones who were involved in the tie had the say and Brwned instantly agreed for this method and since then it has carried on.

I said this earlier so its not sour grapes, that the penalties are good fun of course but it does turn it in to a bit of a farce imo. I knew from about 8hrs before the end that it would go to penalties just by the the way everyone kept reminding of the score, and how there was never more than 1 in it. The last few hours did feel like a bit of a waste of time because everyone had decided it was penalties that they wanted. Like i say, i don't mind cos its good craic, but we're kind of losing focus a bit from some of the matchups.

 

[Moby]

I said this earlier so its not sour grapes, that the penalties are good fun of course but it does turn it in to a bit of a farce imo. I knew from about 8hrs before the end that it would go to penalties just by the the way everyone kept reminding of the score, and how there was never more than 1 in it. The last few hours did feel like a bit of a waste of time because everyone had decided it was penalties that they wanted. Like i say, i don't mind cos its good craic, but we're kind of losing focus a bit from some of the matchups.

True that, though I don't think majority of the votes are based on having a shootout. There were possibly 4-5 there in the morning who would have seen draw as a fair result but the majority still votes for the team they prefer.

I think even without the shootouts we have had people voting to make it a draw because they think no one deserves to lose, just that now there's a bit of an excitement part involved, which I think will also die down soon after we have had a few of them shootouts, which I think is already somewhat the case.

 

[Cutch]

Voted for Cutch as I think his players, especially attacking side, have won and proven more in highest level (a point that Cutch should empasized, imho. I didn't mention this before, as not to be seen as in TOTAL bias for any side).
But TITO's also deserve it by having Savicevic and Scholes, and has the balls to partner him with Deco (underrated player, imho). In fact, I voted his on the first round.

I didn't want to keep banging on about it but i did remind a few times about Dunga-Silva exploits in 94, Kaka in 07, Dani Alves circa 2010, Romario and Stoitchkov in 94. I could have said more about Hierro and Luis Enrique who had peak goalscoring seasons of 29 and 25 goals respectively, and good longevity throughout. It felt like i was fighting a losing battle a bit with my defence, for some reason Alves, Puyol, Helguera, Ramos and even Sergi are just not rated that highly. If i had added Koeman to that defence i would have had Barca's all time back 4 but i think it would have still been considered not the best.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I got to agree with you Cutch. I have had the same thoughts lately and this is really stepping in to the grey zones. People abuse their own votes by prolonging when they vote for longer than what is healthy.

I love penalties, but the power to push for penalties by the voters seems quite apparent lately. Not just today, but several of the games we've seen has had posters justifying their vote with "I want a draw, if the other person was losing I would have voted for them".

Why not just leave it a golden-goal? Whoever gets the next vote wins and that is that. Or if it turns to a draw, whoever has most managerial wins gets the victory - if it is a draw go for golden goals/penalties.

 

[Moby]

I didn't want to keep banging on about it but i did remind a few times about Dunga-Silva exploits in 94, Kaka in 07, Dani Alves circa 2010, Romario and Stoitchkov in 94. I could have said more about Hierro and Luis Enrique who had peak goalscoring seasons of 29 and 25 goals respectively, and good longevity throughout. It felt like i was fighting a losing battle a bit with my defence, for some reason Alves, Puyol, Helguera, Ramos and even Sergi are just not rated that highly. If i had added Koeman to that defence i would have had Barca's all time back 4 but i think it would have still been considered not the best.

I think it had more to do with how they were not suited completely with your tactics. Your strengths lied largely on counters and Alves and Sergi aren't well suited for soaking up pressure. Cruyff explained that having players like Sergi in defense who were originally wingers forced the opposition attacking players tracking them and getting tired, while also obviously giving width to the team.

 

[Cutch]

I think it had more to do with how they were not suited completely with your tactics. Your strengths lied largely on counters and Alves and Sergi aren't well suited for soaking up pressure. Cruyff explained that having players like Sergi in defense who were originally wingers forced the opposition attacking players tracking them and getting tired, while also obviously giving width to the team.

That was my thinking in the first game, with the high line, pressing etc and not inviting the opposition onto them, and tbh i was slaughtered for it. I brought Kaka in for Mendieta, adopted the counter attacking that everyone was after and then the same people were saying i hadn't the defenders suited to it. Left me pretty confused tbh.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Yeah I think that is how I saw it too. You had half a team wanting to soak up pressure, usually in a counter-attacking set up you'd also prefer not having 4 offensive players where the AM is so offensively minded as Kaka was. Romario was quite a load to carry for the rest of the team too defensively.

I prefer having 3 forwards doing the running against the defense then a defensively stronger playmaking AM instead of ball-carrying AM.

This is being VERY picky though. The team was set up brilliantly and these drafts makes it almost impossible to have a perfectly suited team.

 

[Cutch]

I got to agree with you Cutch. I have had the same thoughts lately and this is really stepping in to the grey zones. People abuse their own votes by prolonging when they vote for longer than what is healthy.

I love penalties, but the power to push for penalties by the voters seems quite apparent lately. Not just today, but several of the games we've seen has had posters justifying their vote with "I want a draw, if the other person was losing I would have voted for them".

Why not just leave it a golden-goal? Whoever gets the next vote wins and that is that. Or if it turns to a draw, whoever has most managerial wins gets the victory - if it is a draw go for golden goals/penalties.

Another thing i'm not keen on is the unvoting.

I was considering making a change but then it got into my head that someone who had already voted might have changed their mind as a result. Decided it was better then to leave it as it was, but could have got messy near the end in that last minute or so.

 

[Cutch]

Yeah I think that is how I saw it too. You had half a team wanting to soak up pressure, usually in a counter-attacking set up you'd also prefer not having 4 offensive players where the AM is so offensively minded as Kaka was. Romario was quite a load to carry for the rest of the team too defensively.

I prefer having 3 forwards doing the running against the defense then a defensively stronger playmaking AM instead of ball-carrying AM.

This is being VERY picky though. The team was set up brilliantly and these drafts makes it almost impossible to have a perfectly suited team.

Mendieta? I had him in the first game but again struggled with the balance between midfield and attack. Tbh i really wanted a Redondo type player to pair with Mendieta then i'd have probably ditched Dunga-Silva and had a really slick attacking and defensive unit.

My hands were tied very much so with the sort of theme i was going for, especially in a draft like this with the type of restrictions. I almost pulled it off i think, just a couple of moves away from the perfect team i wanted but couldn't quite get across the finish line in this game to add to it afterwards.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Mendieta? I had him in the first game but again struggled with the balance between midfield and attack. Tbh i really wanted a Redondo type player to pair with Mendieta then i'd have probably ditched Dunga-Silva and had a really slick attacking and defensive unit.

My hands were tied very much so with the sort of theme i was going for, especially in a draft like this with the type of restrictions. I almost pulled it off i think, just a couple of moves away from the perfect team i wanted but couldn't quite get across the finish line in this game to add to it afterwards.

No doubt going for a theme like that increased the difficulty level a lot in an already difficult draft.

The issue for me was primarily that Romario/Alves/Sergi are possession picks in my eyes. But you had Dunga/Silva who are quite the opposite, players who thrive when they are challenged defensively.

I would have liked to see Mendieta get paired up with another creative possession CM. But I have no clue if that was available and I understand the desire to pick Kaka too as he individually would be at a higher level than the CM(again, doing guess work here).

Something like(Scholes was of course taken)
Stoichkov---Romario---Enrique
-----Mendieta------Scholes-----
---------------Dunga-------------

 

[Isotope]

The issue for me was primarily that Romario/Alves/Sergi are possession picks in my eyes. But you had Dunga/Silva who are quite the opposite, players who thrive when they are challenged defensively.

So how did Dunga and Silva survive in that Brazil WC winning team?

Didn't they have two attacking fullbacks as well?

EDIT: Yes, they are:

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Great learning experience these draft games as always, but the player i found most interesting when researching this game was Savicevic. He looked a fantastic player.

Some of these players from the Balkans like Prosinecki, Boban, Stoijkovic, Mijatovic and Suker had such natural talent and flair, and it seems they're all very underrated. What a team you could make out of all those.

I loved Savicevic when I was a kid. One of my favourite players from the glory days when Channel 4 first started showing Football Italia! Its great to see him getting such a mention in a draft, and that video of him ripping the piss out of us in 1991 was unreal. Stojkovic is one I wish I had seen more of. He seems to have been even more highly thought of than Savicevic so he must have been a hell of a player.I didn't vote because I couldn't decide. TITO's team is possibly my favourite in the whole draft but yours looked tailor-made to shut him down.

 

[antohan]

for some reason Alves, Puyol, Helguera, Ramos and even Sergi are just not rated that highly. If i had added Koeman to that defence i would have had Barca's all time back 4 but i think it would have still been considered not the best.

As I mentioned earlier Barca's all time back four may well not be the most solid unit. I wanted to go for a Dream Team theme as well but knew I needed a better set of defenders who could still replicate the positives (e.g. Brehme instead of Sergi, Thuram instead of Nadal/Puyol, Sagnol instead of Ferrer/Alves). Koeman was the only one were I just couldn't do it without the original.

That was my thinking in the first game, with the high line, pressing etc and not inviting the opposition onto them, and tbh i was slaughtered for it. I brought Kaka in for Mendieta, adopted the counter attacking that everyone was after and then the same people were saying i hadn't the defenders suited to it. Left me pretty confused tbh.

Different opponents though. Sully/NM didn't have a very potent attack and it was all rather central and predictable. It was your high line which made it more dangerous than it should have been. Here you were facing a much more nuanced attack with better service, and players who would test all four of your defenders. Trying to soak against Tito was quite a different proposition.

I think Annah hit the nail on the head earlier when indicating how contradictory your CM pair and back/front four seemed to be.

My hands were tied very much so with the sort of theme i was going for, especially in a draft like this with the type of restrictions.

Don't tell me, I wanted to go for a Dream Team theme and had to tweak that, now have some halfway house relative to where I want to get. Nightmare. Missing Henry screwed me more than you can imagine, it's not just the player and his partnership with Bergkamp, he was perfect, fecking perfect