Redcafe Sheep Draft QF3 - Polaroid vs Pippa

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide the winner in this fantasy game contested between two sides assembled through the method of drafting. For the purpose of this game, all players would be considered as being at their respective peaks. I invite all posters to go through the formations, tactics and arguments that will follow in the thread and kindly leave their vote. Thanks.

Polaroid's tactics

The team lines up in a modern 4-2-3-1 formation.

Defence
Cannavaro in the stopper role, Rio covering, Neuer sweeping up behind. The brief for Gallas is tailor-made to leverage on his strengths – a pure man-marking job on Giggs to get the ball before him. Alaba's pace and intelligence will be leveraged on to support Bale when the right window of opportunity opens.

Midfield
Zidane-Redondo will be ably supported by the tactical awareness, astute positioning and intelligent passing of Busquets. Busquests is the perfect foil for Redondo - the one-touch tango getting past opponents and opening up gaps, linking up with Zidane-Eto'o-Bale-Laudrup to exploit the openings, Busquets' presence will provide the stable and secure platform for the Zidane-Redondo axis to dictate the flow of the game.

Flanks and upfront
The pace, dribbling and crossing from Bale and Laudrup will stretch the opposition, open up gaps and supply gilt-edged opportunities to the goalscorer extraordinaire Eto'o

Where the game will be decided
1. Midfield - How will Pippa's team handle defensive to offensive transitions and who is setting the team's tempo, playmaking and keeping the supply lines open? which midfield will have a more balanced, coordinated display or unbalanced and disjointed? That will almost singlehandedly decide the flow and outcome of the game
2. Eto'o vs Van Nistelrooy - both are extraordinary goalscorers. The key is to limit Van Nistelrooy by keeping him out of the box and isolated of supply, where his relative lack of pace and ability to create opportunities will count against him.

No midfield playmaker and an isolated striker who is outmatched in pace and unable to create opportunities on his own.

Team Polaroid

Team Pippa

Pippa's tactics

Important points:

Zidane will be man-marked by Desailly, also known as “The Octopus”. In his midfield role that he made his own in Milan, Desailly was known to mark out opponents with ease. Defensively speaking, he is the at the top of the draft for midfielders.

Spoiler

Jari Litmanen could barely breathe. The Finnish No 10 huffed and puffed, his hollow cheeks now red, the contours of his face wet with perspiration. Louis Van Gaal had no choice but to haul him off. It was the 69th minute of the 1995 Champions League Final and Ajax were playing Fabio Capello's all-consuming Milan. "I suffer from asthma," Litmanen sighed. When asked to explain what that had anything to do with it, he replied: "They put Desailly on me and Desailly is a tough marker."

For over an hour, one of the most talented playmakers in Europe had toiled away but to no avail. Litmanen simply couldn't find a way past the tentacles of Milan's No 8. No sooner had he got the ball than it was gone. At the time Desailly was known in Italy simply as the Octopus. It was a particularly fitting description. When told of his nickname during an interview with Il Corriere della Sera, the Frenchman smiled typically and said: "I like it. That's my role in the middle of the pitch, just like an Octopus."

"Marcel replaced Frank Rijkaard who had more quality and would get forward more," recalled Stefano Eranio. "Now we had a guy who did a disproportionate amount of defensive work. This took some of the defensive pressure off the other players, who felt more free to push on."

Source: Thiago Silva - The Brazilian heir to Desailly

Gullit and Vieira, two extremely physical midfielders, will be matching up against Redondo and Busquets in the centre of the pitch. By pressing aggressively in the defensive third, they will force Busquets and Redondo to play back into defence in order to recycle possession.

The battle on the wing between Donadoni and Alaba. Not only three weeks ago did we see Alaba struggle defending 1v1 against Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, so can you imagine what one of Italy’s greatest wingers will be able to do against him?

William Gallas — a central defender who is shoehorned at right back. Offers very little going forward, so you can expect him to play deep in order to confront Giggs in offensive situations. That will only lead to Laudrup being isolated mostly on the right, similar to when Inter used to play Iván Córdoba as a fullback.

Thiago Silva and Miroslav Djukic as a pairing. Silva has operated as both a central defender and as a holding midfielder, whereas Djukic has played as both a sweeper and central defender. Not only is Silva a fantastic defender, he is a leader — one recognised by Paolo Maldini, who likened Silva’s defensive impact to Franco Baresi. Djukic was the defensive chief of the Depor side which conceded a Spanish record 18 goals in 38 matches in 1994.

I realise Polaroid’s team is geared towards keeping possession. The goal is to let him crowd the central areas to find no space available, playing the ball backwards. By constricting space in the final third, it forces the team to aimlessly play the ball in defence or deep in midfield.

van Nistelrooy is a forward who’s movement and skill can occupy two central defenders. He has the ability to control almost any ball with his first touch and is able to play with his back to goal. He is explosive when making a run inside of the box and is deadly at converting headers and shots into goals. Almost the perfect lone striker, with wingers like Giggs and Donadoni and midfielders like Vieira and Gullit.

Polaroid has no physicality in midfield. His midfielders rely more on intelligence and teamwork, which is something that my midfielders have in abundance. However, the likes of Zidane, Busquets and Redondo will not be running marathons or pressing forwards — but my midfielders can.

 

[Polaroid]

1. Midfield - How will Pippa's team handle defensive to offensive transitions and who is setting the team's tempo, playmaking and keeping the supply lines open? Which midfield will have a more balanced, coordinated display or unbalanced and disjointed? That will almost singlehandedly decide the flow and outcome of the game
2. The ball travels much faster than players and critically the ball does not tire like players. Pippa has his players chasing after Zidane-Redondo-Busquets-Laudrup passing the ball at high speed, it inevitably wears players out and leaves gaps. Zidane, Redondo and Laudrup will exploit that to create gilt-edged chances which Eto'o will gobble up.
3. Eto'o vs Van Nistelrooy - both are extraordinary goalscorers. The key is to limit Van Nistelrooy by keeping him out of the box and isolated of supply, where his relative lack of pace and ability to create opportunities will count against him.
4. Rio vs Djukic - who will be unraveled by the pace of the front 3 getting in behind/attacking the channels?

Pippa's team has no midfield playmaker and an isolated striker who is outmatched in pace and unable to create opportunities on his own. Is Gullit expected to make up 50 yards in an instant or Desailly to start spraying 50 yard cross-field/through balls? If Pippa is setting up to play counterattacking football, he needs the outstanding passer half to the runner half of the equation, which he does not have! It is like: ok we counterattack now, everybody run! but err...who makes the searching pass to find the runner who has got in behind? In any case, I have Redondo, Busquets, Rio, Cannavaro, Gallas and Alaba (my backline is chockfull of pace) to smother the counterattacking, which is the best any could hope for really.

My CBs are player closer to the box than Pippa's. If anything, it will be Djukic exposed by Eto'o's pace rather than Rio/Cannavaro by Van Nistelrooy. I have Rio as the covering defender vs Djukic on Pippa's. Who is more likely to be unraveled by pace?

How do people ignore the 4 issues above, particularly the first which is so fundamental to the team?

 

[Polaroid]

Click here for player profiles

 

[Pippa]

Two technically gifted central midfielders who have nearly unlimited stamina to drive up and down the pitch in Gullit and Vieira, with huge wide threats in Irwin-Giggs and Angloma-Donadoni. Alaba isn't a great defender, very recently he was awful against Arsenal when Oxlade-Chamberlain was getting in 1-v-1 confrontations with him. How will he cope with Donadoni, then?

I know your team is set out to keep possession, built on technique. But if Zidane is being tightly marked by "The Octopus", who will be creating chances in the final third, pulling strings? Busquets and Redondo will be playing deeper in your midfield, and they will be regularly confronting my first bank of four (Giggs-Vieira-Gullit-Donadoni) before even reaching the second bank of four (Irwin-Silva-Djukic-Angloma).

Your team will simply get bullied in the middle of the pitch. And with x-factors along the lines of Gullit, Donadoni, Giggs, and van Persie, a quick chance on the break is possible. I set my team out to first counter yours and negate your biggest threat. You have no play-makers in the final third if Zidane isn't able to create consistent space for himself, and with your possession-based group of players that won't be any help.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Life-saver to pull up Desailly and move Gullit down. Even if Gullit peaked as a second striker I think he is always a better fit in the central midfield considering how surpassed he is by someone like Zidane.

I can't think of a more physically brutal monster midfield than Desailly-Viera-Gullit. Against most opponents I think they would have been a huge strength but in this match-up against the incredibly pacey, pass and move styled midfield of Polaroid I am not sure it is.

Will Desailly/Viera/Gullit have the explosiveness and alertness which you need against a team of the playing style of Polaroid? I think the trios defensive ability will have quite a low impact in this game compared to their peak abilities. I can see Iniesta/Xavi abusing someone like Vieira in the central midfield and Gullit too the way a Fellaini is not suited stylistically in that match-up.

However I do think their physicality is an even bigger strength in the offense considering how hard their style are for Busquets-Redondo-Zidane to handle.

Pippa will create goal-scoring opportunities in the offense without a doubt, and in my opinion Polaroid will have an almost equal ease with creating chances. Not sure who ends up with an advantage considering this as Polaroid will have more possession.

 

[Pippa]

GK - Gianluca Pagliuca

One of the finest Italian goalkeepers of his generation. Capable of brilliant reaction saves, crazy one-handed saves, Pagliuca made his name on his reactions and how quick he was stopping shots. Played 19 years with Sampdoria, Inter, and Bologna - recognised as the best goalkeeper in Serie A as Sampdoria won their first Scudetto, recognised as the best player in Serie A in 1996-97 with Inter, and recognised as the best player in Serie A in 2004-05 with Bologna. The goalkeeper with most appearances in Serie A history. Seen as one of the most consistent goalkeepers of his time, he is possibly the most revered goalkeeper in the history of Inter.

Right back - Jocelyn Angloma

European media regarded him as the best right back in three years - 1997, 2000, 2001 - as Valencia began their dramatic rise in European football. Won the European Cup in 1993 with Marseille, and played a big part in 1996-97 as a right back for Inter. A right back with near-unlimited stamina, he was always seen as the back-up for Thuram in the NT but he was a top-class defender for Valencia, playing alongside Miroslav Djukic.

Central defence - Miroslav Djukic

One of the best defenders to play in La Liga since the 1990s. The defensive leader of the famed Super Depor side in the early 1990s, Djukic was a sweeper who turned into a central defender in a four-man defence with Valencia as they rose to become one of Europe's top teams in the late 1990s. He was voted as Deportivo's greatest ever defender in a fan poll.

Central defence - Thiago Silva

The best central defender of his generation, capable in both midfield and defence. Alessandro Nesta said that there are no similar players to Silva, only worse ones. Silva is described as having better physical attributes than Baresi by his own teammates, and is the best defender in the world, bar none. No issues with the ball at his feet, Silva is not only a defender, but a footballer. He can toy with attackers, using his immense technique to play out of danger. Quick, strong, and a superb tackler. Silva is a defender who could defend in any system with any teammate. Baresi once called Silva his heir, praise that he has never given before to a defender.

Paolo Maldini: "Certainly, Thiago shows that security that characterised Franco when he used to play. For one reason or another, when Baresi came off during the break or during the game, we all felt his loss and I think the same thing is happening now with Thiago, because he gives so much security at the back."

Pippo Inzaghi: "Thiago belongs to the elite group of players, who are born maybe once in a century.”

Left back - Denis Irwin

A complete full-back, rated really highly by United fans. He is the standout fullback in the history of Manchester United, someone who was always a consistent footballer, rarely making mistakes. As good with his left foot as he was with his right foot. Again, he is rated really highly by United fans, especially on this forum: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-good-was-denis-irwin.354479/

Sir Alex Ferguson: "Honestly, I would say Denis Irwin would be the one certainty to get in the team [all-time United team] ... He was an unbelievable player."

Holding midfield - Marcel Desailly

Capable in both midfield and defence, Desailly was a world-class player in both positions. Incredibly strong and fast, he combined his physical capabilities with good defensive abilities. Milan actually bought Desailly after he put in a phenomenal performance in the 1993 European Cup final with Marseille, marking out Marco van Basten. He then put in a remarkable performance in the 1994 European Cup final with Milan, dominating Barcelona's midfield and scoring a goal.

Paolo Maldini: "He is without doubt the greatest foreign defender ever to have played in calcio".

Michael Owen: "Desailly was virtually impossible to play against. He was strong, quick, and good on the ball."

Brian Laudrup: "Definitely the hardest player to come up against – it was nearly impossible to get past him [...]"

Left midfielder - Ryan Giggs

Standout winger of his time, probably the best winger in Premier League history. He has the most assists in Champions League history, had a great partnership alongside Denis Irwin. This allowed Giggs to achieve the highest assists in Premier League history, the vast majority of them being from open play. Great dribbler, he used to toy with some of Europe's top fullbacks in the Champions League.

Ian Wright: "He's almost the perfect winger as he can dribble, cross and score goals, while being comfortable out wide, in the middle or behind the front man."

Andriy Shevchenko: "Wise and creative, with wonderful individual skills."

Raúl González: "Manchester United have lots of good players, but if you want me to go for just one, I'll stick with Giggs."

Right midfielder - Roberto Donadoni

Key player for Milan during the reigns of both Sacchi and Capello. He made 344 total appearances for Milan from 1986-1996, playing a big part in a team that won 5 Scudettos, 3 European Cups, 3 Super Cups, and 2 Intercontinental Cups. Donadoni was one of the top Italian midfielders of those years: feints, bursts of speed, dribbling, crosses and shots, his gameplay had no limits. A familiar occurence during that time was for Donadoni to outwit a defender, then put in a cross for either Gullit or van Basten to score. Here he is, doing it against Real Madrid, with his teammate Ruud Gullit.

Central midfielder - Patrick Vieira

One of the best midfielders to ever play in the Premier League, was always recognised as an elite midfielder in the late 1990s to early 2000s. A fantastic box-to-box midfielder, very gifted on the ball but was almost a vacuum in defence when playing in midfield. Was a star at multiple international tournaments, putting in fantastic performances in his driving midfield role with France and Arsenal. A huge physical presence in midfield at 6 ft, 4 in, but majestic enough on the ball to be a real thorn in the opposition's side.

Central midfielder - Ruud Gullit

Phenomenal technique, physique, and creativity. Dominant on the ground and in the air. The star of my team, Gullit is the key player and attack and he will be able to play his own style of football, the kind that allowed him to win the WS World Footballer of the Year award twice in 1987 and 1989. Capable of playing almost anywhere in the centre sections of the pitch, he had all the ability to succeed in any position.

Ronald Koeman: "There was a period in the late-’80s when Ruud rivalled Diego Maradona as the world’s best player, and in virtually any position – centre half, winger, centre-midfield or up front. But for injuries, Ruud would’ve achieved even more than he did."

Gheorghe Hagi: "[He] was Van Basten’s perfect partner: every coach’s dream is to have a technical player partnered with a physical one."

Sven-Goran Eriksson: "Seldom do you see someone with such physical strength as well as technical ability. Ruud was extremely powerful and a goalscorer."

Centre forward - Ruud van Nistelrooy

One of the best goal-scorers football has ever seen. Ruthless in front of goal, could control any ball, such a predatory striker. Give him at least one chance and he'll almost always convert it. He always found a way to score, being the Champions League top scorer three times. The target man up front, he will cause a lot of worry to any defence.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'm not convinced by either team here.

Can Busquets and Redondo work together? Who will dictate the game from deep? Will they overlap?

Also, if given the ball can Pippa's midfield handle the fast pace likely to be set by Pol?

 

[Pippa]

I can't think of a more physically brutal monster midfield than Desailly-Viera-Gullit. Against most opponents I think they would have been a huge strength but in this match-up against the incredibly pacey, pass and move styled midfield of Polaroid I am not sure it is.

[...]

I don't see the pace in his midfield at all? Busquets, Redondo, Zidane will never strike anyone as being quick on the run, but the ball does move quicker than the players so I guess that's what you mean. His group of midfielders are the type to dominate the ball, keep possession.

But when it comes to playing in the final third, they'll find it hard to get space of their own as the likes of Vieira and Gullit are simply work-horses of the highest degree, extremely capable of matching up to the best, no?

There's not a single midfielder in this draft who is better suited to man-marking a star #10 than Desailly. This is the same guy who Maldini called the best foreign defender to play in Italian football, which is high enough praise.

I definitely think that my trio in midfield will be able to match up defensively against the passing of Polaroid's team. Harrassing and being physical with someone who's playing style is dependent on space will always cause them to struggle, or at the very minimum play less than what they are capable of.

Busquets was very poor against Bayern last year in the Champions League, because Müller managed to hurry him in possession. So he kept playing the ball backwards and to the sides. Zidane was the exact same, except he had those sorts of games much more often, especially playing for Rube, the team he won two World Player of the Year awards under.

I think the biggest mis-match is Donadoni against Alaba. Bale at his best isn't a second left back like Ribéry is, which is a big difference IMO. Angloma and Donadoni are both the type of players to combine on the right wing and terrorise someone like Alaba.

Angloma is easily good enough to take care of Bale as well, I mean if he could mark out the likes of Figo, Del Piero (pre-injury), Fran, there's no doubt he'd be able to minimise the threat of Bale.

 

[Moby]

Neck to neck in voting so far.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Neck to neck in voting so far.

Penalties?

 

[Balu]

Neck to neck in voting so far.

At least no one can unvote to mess with the managers here.

 

[Moby]

Penalties?

At least no one can unvote to mess with the managers here.

true.

 

[Thisistheone]

I like both sides. Very well built. Especially Pippa's.

Will wait to hear more from both though before voting.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I don't see the pace in his midfield at all? Busquets, Redondo, Zidane will never strike anyone as being quick on the run, but the ball does move quicker than the players so I guess that's what you mean. His group of midfielders are the type to dominate the ball, keep possession.

But when it comes to playing in the final third, they'll find it hard to get space of their own as the likes of Vieira and Gullit are simply work-horses of the highest degree, extremely capable of matching up to the best, no?

There's not a single midfielder in this draft who is better suited to man-marking a star #10 than Desailly. This is the same guy who Maldini called the best foreign defender to play in Italian football, which is high enough praise.

I definitely think that my trio in midfield will be able to match up defensively against the passing of Polaroid's team. Harrassing and being physical with someone who's playing style is dependent on space will always cause them to struggle, or at the very minimum play less than what they are capable of.

Busquets was very poor against Bayern last year in the Champions League, because Müller managed to hurry him in possession. So he kept playing the ball backwards and to the sides. Zidane was the exact same, except he had those sorts of games much more often, especially playing for Rube, the team he won two World Player of the Year awards under.

I think the biggest mis-match is Donadoni against Alaba. Bale at his best isn't a second left back like Ribéry is, which is a big difference IMO. Angloma and Donadoni are both the type of players to combine on the right wing and terrorise someone like Alaba.

Angloma is easily good enough to take care of Bale as well, I mean if he could mark out the likes of Figo, Del Piero (pre-injury), Fran, there's no doubt he'd be able to minimise the threat of Bale.

I have 0 issues with Desailly in this midfield. It is more the duo in front of him that I can see having issues with their alertness/agility which is the main attribute you want against the Redondo/Busquets/Zidane axis.

Big and physically imposing players grow in efficiency the worse technique, dribbling and the slower passing the opponent has. Busquets and Redondo will keep the ball moving very quickly and I can't see Vieira and Gullit performing at their finest when they never get in to physical battles.

Desailly/Vieira/Gullit would feed on the 50-50 balls that is a huge part of football. They'd bully the opponents off the ball using their massive frames. In this game Polaroids style when in possession will mean he automatically avoid 50-50 balls as that is basically the premise of possession football.

But like I said, your trio will also be very effective when they have the ball. Then they will certainly bully Busquets, Redondo and Zidane quite a bit physically and you have a very clear path to goal chances with laying it out wide and crossing it. Not that it is your only chance, but the other paths to goal I think Polaroid has too.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

I have 0 issues with Desailly in this midfield. It is more the duo in front of him that I can see having issues with their alertness/agility which is the main attribute you want against the Redondo/Busquets/Zidane axis.

Big and physically imposing players grow in efficiency the worse technique, dribbling and the slower passing the opponent has. Busquets and Redondo will keep the ball moving very quickly and I can't see Vieira and Gullit performing at their finest when they never get in to physical battles.

Desailly/Vieira/Gullit would feed on the 50-50 balls that is a huge part of football. They'd bully the opponents off the ball using their massive frames. In this game Polaroids style when in possession will mean he automatically avoid 50-50 balls as that is basically the premise of possession football.

But like I said, your trio will also be very effective when they have the ball. Then they will certainly bully Busquets, Redondo and Zidane quite a bit physically and you have a very clear path to goal chances with laying it out wide and crossing it. Not that it is your only chance, but the other paths to goal I think Polaroid has too.

I think you're underrating Vieira and Gullit's technical ability. Gullit especially was technically magnificent, easily good enough to mix it with Redondo and Busquets.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I think you're underrating Vieira and Gullit's technical ability. Gullit especially was technically magnificent, easily good enough to mix it with Redondo and Busquets.

Erm, you must be misunderstanding me I am talking about them in the defense. My point is that Vieira and Gullit are physical monsters and their alertness(quickness in shifting balance) are lower as a side effect of it.

Gullit and Vieira has been ordered by Pippa "to press aggressively in the own third". When pressing your alertness is extremely important to not get outplayed.

I don't think it will affect the game to a huge degree, but I can't ever see Gullit/Viera's favorite opponents being the style Polaroid is using - in fact the exact opposite.

Like I said though, Gullit/Vieira/Desailly are going to be great when they are in possession.

 

[antohan]

I think you're underrating Vieira and Gullit's technical ability. Gullit especially was technically magnificent, easily good enough to mix it with Redondo and Busquets.

Can't believe someone has felt the need to stick up for Gullit. Wow.

 

[antohan]

I'm growing tired of this possession bollocks. Redondo, Zidane and Busquets give people trouble because they are top calibre players, not because they are somewhat outsmarting their opponents. I wouldn't bet against Gullit, Vieira and Desailly being quite capable of dealing with any midfield.

I'm actually not a huge fan of that CM combo of Pol's. I thought the idea was Busquets pivot, with Zidane and Redondo ahead. Why not? Because both would prefer that slot on the left. In fact, both would be most effective on that left side, and Bale likes cutting in and drifting into the centre. It all looks pretty jampacked there while Laudrup is left to cover about half of the attacking third. Somehow I find Pol's defence to be his greatest asset here, not a great place to be.

I can see Pippa smothering Pol and nicking a goal at the other end. 1-0.

 

[crappycraperson]

I think it was a mistake for Pol to get Busquests instead of shoring up his defense further. At best I can see him scoring once here, giving credit to that midfield trio. Though I think it is very much possible that pippa's 3 in the middle can shut out his 3 completely. Not shut out as in limit the possession but stop them from creating any chances. Pol will have to go wide here most of the time despite having strength in the middle. Laudrup will struggle against the combo of Irwin+Giggs, I am not sure how much support he will get from Gallas. On the left, Alaba + Bale could have some joy but it would also leave that side exposed defensively even more.

I also do not understand how every manager seems to think that you play a high line against Ruud and that's that. He was no pace merchant but no slouch either. Forget the Fulham goal, check his goal against Arsenal in 2-2 at highbury in 2002/3. In any case, once Giggs dribbles past Gallas, that high-line would be useless. Either Giggs or Donadoni running down the wing on counter, with Ruud in the box and Viera/Guilt breaking in, that sounds tasty.

 

[Moby]

Went for Pippa, his wingers against Pol's fullbacks is the biggest mismatch. Gullit and Ruud is a great combo. Both would be great in the air and a constant threat with the wingers getting in the service. I like how he has positioned Gullit, not that it changes his role much even if he was placed further ahead but makes it clear for everyone that he's involved in midfield as much as anyone else whilst having the explosiveness to join the attack in an instant. Love having someone like him in the team, and him not getting any sort of credit when I had him in the decades one really left me disappointed.

 

[antohan]

I also do not understand how every manager seems to think that you play a high line against Ruud and that's that. He was no pace merchant but no slouch either. Forget the Fulham goal, check his goal against Arsenal in 2-2 at highbury in 2002/3. In any case, once Giggs dribbles past Gallas, that high-line would be useless. Either Giggs or Donadoni running down the wing on counter, with Ruud in the box and Viera/Guilt breaking in, that sounds tasty.

Indeed, I was baffled when Cutch said he had nothing to worry about against sully/NM. Raping a high line isn't just pace. There's at least one goal in a Giggs-Ruud counter combo, and probably another with Donadoni-Gullit-Ruud.

 

[antohan]

"Et tu Aldo?"

- Round Nando

 

[Fergus' son]

Went for Pippa.

 

[Moby]

"Et tu Aldo?"

- Round Nando

Pippa moved his best defensive player from defense to midfield which really made me tough to see a clear cut domination in terms of going forward from Pol. That and Gullit, who I also love to bits , was a great move in suffocating his midfield.

More than anything Pol's fullbacks would hurt him here. In such a tight game in other areas something like that is bound to make a difference. Playing a high line is suicidal against a player of the caliber of Gullit breaking forward.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Erm, you must be misunderstanding me I am talking about them in the defense. My point is that Vieira and Gullit are physical monsters and their alertness(quickness in shifting balance) are lower as a side effect of it.

Gullit and Vieira has been ordered by Pippa "to press aggressively in the own third". When pressing your alertness is extremely important to not get outplayed.

I don't think it will affect the game to a huge degree, but I can't ever see Gullit/Viera's favorite opponents being the style Polaroid is using - in fact the exact opposite.

Like I said though, Gullit/Vieira/Desailly are going to be great when they are in possession.

Ah I thought you were talking about them more generally...I still don't agree with you though! I don't think anyone would have an easy time against midfielders as technically adroit and tricky as Pol's, but I don't see Gullit and Vieira having any particular difficulty related to their size. If anything their physiques are clearly an asset in the defence. Neither had any balance issues whatsoever that I can discern, and how many times did we see Vieira stick out one of those long legs to knick the ball away from an opponent when it seemed he had little chance.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I don't by any means think Pippas midfield will have issues, they are immense defensively. I just don't think they will have their absolute best performance - if they did it would be a guaranteed clean sheet pretty much.

I think both these teams would score goals, 2-1, 2-2 or 3-2 to one team. Not sure which though but I am leaning to Pippa right now but then again Pol hasn't commented since the start of the game.

 

[Isotope]

Both are good teams. But I'll prefer watching Polaroid's, though.

 

[Thisistheone]

Both managers quiet here. I'm still leaning towards Pippa.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Can't believe someone has felt the need to stick up for Gullit. Wow.

I may have misinterpreted Annah a tad! Though there is a tendency across the forum to under-sell a player's technical ability if they also happen to be a superlative athlete, as if the two are mutually exclusive. Plus, dare I say it, Redondo seems to be bordering on overrated in these drafts, magnificent player though he was.

 

[antohan]

I may have misinterpreted Annah a tad! Though there is a tendency across the forum to under-sell a player's technical ability if they also happen to be a superlative athlete, as if the two are mutually exclusive. Plus, dare I say it, Redondo seems to be bordering on overrated in these drafts, magnificent player though he was.

Not really Redondo's fault that everyone is fixated with possession and, given the generalised Spanish/Catalan midgetry, nobody seems to have much time for physical superiority and athleticism. Funny, one way Chelsea used to get past that Barca (or get robbed) was just monstering them for 90 mins.

 

[Cutch]

Indeed, I was baffled when Cutch said he had nothing to worry about against sully/NM. Raping a high line isn't just pace. There's at least one goal in a Giggs-Ruud counter combo, and probably another with Donadoni-Gullit-Ruud.

I wasn't saying there was nothing to worry about it, just that i thought keeping a penalty box predator as far away from goal as possible was advisable.

 

[Polaroid]

Sorry lads, loose ends to tie up from my trip

To answer Edgar
The one-touch tango of Redondo will find its perfect foil in Busquets, the pass and move interplay will have opponents chasing shadows. Busquets will be the supporting platform to Redondo-Zidane just as he is to Xavi-Iniesta. Over 90 minutes, it is impossible to shut down Zidane-Redondo-Busquets with Eto'o-Laudrup-Bale stretching the play, once Zidane/Redondo gets through the middle attacking the CBs with Eto'o getting in behind against Djukic, what are the chances of Eto'o missing?

How about
1. Midfield - How will Pippa's team handle defensive to offensive transitions and who is setting the team's tempo, playmaking and keeping the supply lines open? which midfield will have a more balanced, coordinated display or unbalanced and disjointed? That will almost singlehandedly decide the flow and outcome of the game
2. Eto'o vs Van Nistelrooy - both are extraordinary goalscorers. The key is to limit Van Nistelrooy by keeping him out of the box and isolated of supply, where his relative lack of pace and ability to create opportunities will count against him.

Pippa's team has no midfield playmaker and an isolated striker who is outmatched in pace and unable to create opportunities on his own. Is Gullit expected to make up 50 yards in an instant or Desailly to start spraying 50 yard cross-field/through balls? If Pippa is setting up to play counterattacking football, he needs the outstanding passer half to the runner half of the equation, which he does not have! In any case, I have Redondo, Busquets, Rio, Cannavaro, Gallas and Alaba (my backline is chockfull of pace) to smother the counterattacking, which is the best any could hope for really.

My CBs are player closer to the box than Pippa's. If anything, it will be Djukic exposed by Eto'o's pace rather than Rio/Cannavaro by Van Nistelrooy. I have Rio as the covering defender vs Djukic on Pippa's. Who is more likely to be unraveled by pace?

Gallas is an outstanding man-marker with pace to burn, this job on Giggs is tailor-fit to him
Alaba is so under-rated as a defender (people automatically think that if you are so damn good at attacking, you must be shit at defending), his pace and more importantly his intelligence has enabled him to come up on top of quality wingers in the Champions League, one of the few fullbacks today who can both attack and defend at a high level.

 

[Polaroid]

I wasn't saying there was nothing to worry about it, just that i thought keeping a penalty box predator as far away from goal as possible was advisable.

That makes sense. Especially as Ruud was no speed merchant, even if the winger is to get past the fullback, a pacey centreback like Rio will outpace Ruud in getting into the box.

 

[Cutch]

I need a bit of convincing that Van Nistelrooy is the perfect lone striker as Pippa puts it. He played throughout his career with a No.10 behind him didn't he? I'd have preferred Gullit in a more advanced position for that reason.

 

[Polaroid]

I need a bit of convincing that Van Nistelrooy is the perfect lone striker as Pippa puts it. He played throughout his career with a No.10 behind him didn't he? I'd have preferred Gullit in a more advanced position for that reason.

Ruud's most productive output came with Scholes, Solskjaer and Giggs in advanced supporting positions. As good an athlete Gullit was, he can't be making up 50 yards in an instant. Redondo, Busquets, Rio, Cannavaro are also not mugs in letting him have a free run even if he turned into Superman. Pippa also does not have the playmaker to open up play let alone produce defence splitting passes. Who will be initiating the defensive to offensive transitions? It is like: ok we counterattack now, everybody run! but err...who makes the searching pass to find the runner who has got in behind? Are they more likely to produce that pass than Zidane-Redondo who also has Eto'o's pace to count on?

 

[Cutch]

Ruud's most productive output came with Scholes, Solskjaer and Giggs in advanced supporting positions. As good an athlete Gullit was, he can't be making up 50 yards in an instant. Redondo, Busquets, Rio, Cannavaro are also not mugs in letting him have a free run even if he turned into Superman. Pippa also does not have the playmaker to open up play let alone produce defence splitting passes. Who will be initiating the defensive to offensive transitions? It is like: ok we counterattack now, everybody run! but err...who makes the searching pass to find the runner who has got in behind? Are they more likely to produce that pass than Zidane-Redondo who also has Eto'o's pace to count on?

Yeah, i just don't remember him ever being so isolated. At United aswell he had the great partnership with Rooney for a couple of seasons, and then at Real he had Raul alongside (An option that Pippa has here). For Holland from what i remember he always had wing forwards like Van Persie/Robben alongside him and Sneijder in behind.

I don't think his game is the best suited to ploughing a lone furrow, and think he relies more on the service of others when he becomes deadly.

 

[Pippa]

Yes, it is a defensive set-up. One set out to negate Polaroid's biggest strength, his midfield, and to exploit his biggest weakness, his fullbacks. Normally a CF in such a style of play would be starved of service, getting only a couple of chances per match, but then you just look at the quality behind him and there is no doubt Ruud would get opportunities.

I said van Nistelrooy was almost the perfect lone striker and for good reason. Great ball control, he was never a "speed merchant" as you put it but he's so explosive when he makes runs in behind defence, times them perfectly. A great header of the ball, extremely accurate placement, something that he would relish playing with Giggs and Donadoni as wingers. Two box-to-box midfielders with incredible engines -- if there was any midfielders I would've wanted to play this role, they would be Gullit and Vieira. Huge task of getting up the pitch, joining in attack, and then supporting the defence reverting back to a flat-four with Giggs and Donadoni.

He's never played that role, but he has all the attributes to play it definitely. He was tall (188cm), strong (80kg), could hold-up play and play with his back towards goal. He was never the Mário Jardel-type of footballer to only come up inside the box and be useless outside of it.

 

[Pippa]

Regarding setting tempo and that stuff, there really is no point in me arguing that I have the right set-up to do that, especially considering the midfield you have. I have stressed that your midfield will dominate the ball, but will find it tough to create opportunities in the final third with Zidane being so closely marked.

Over a 90-minute match, I am certain the physicality of my centre midfield trio will wear your team down, especially the ones who don't thrive when starved of space.

Without a doubt the biggest weak point in the game is Alaba. Easily the worst defender on the pitch. And this is him coming up against Roberto Donadoni, an AC Milan, and Serie A legend as a winger who's skill and pace got him even past some of the best defenders of that era, certainly in an overall better era defensively than Alaba is playing in now.

 

[Polaroid]

Myth busting
Van Nistelrooy was never prolific at headers - he scored 14 of 95 PL goals with his head, a lower ratio than Ole who scored 14 out of 91 with his head

 

[Polaroid]

Pippa, you have conveniently forgotten about Redondo and Laudrup. It is not just Zidane alone who I do not believe anyone can shut down completely for 90 minutes, not even Rijkaard let alone Desailly. The ball travels much faster than players and critically the ball does not tire like players. Chasing after the ball at high speed wears players out and leaves gaps. Zidane, Redondo and Laudrup will exploit that to create gilt-edged chances which Eto'o will gobble up.