But I never said he was a prolific header of the ball, no? He never used to score a lot of headers, but he had great heading ability. For example, Drogba is known as one of the best headers of the ball during his time in England, but apparently he scored only 22 of his 100 Premier League goals with his head.
Redcafe Sheep Draft QF3 - Polaroid vs Pippa
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Monstering plus equally good technique would be even more potent! I don't really mean to downplay Redondo - anyone that soundly trounced Keane in a big game is top notch in my book - but he seems to have become a trump card in these drafts. I'm not sure that he ever carried his peak-match performance, which was incredible, across entire seasons in the manner that the likes of Keane did. At the time I remember him being criticised for a lack of consistency.
@Pippa, how would you address the 4 issues above?
Also odd that apart from Annah, everybody else totally ignored these 4 issues
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Drogba's ratio is 50% more than Van Nistelrooy, which is a hell lot better
You don't think anyone can shut down Zidane for 90 minutes? Come on, let's not be ridiculous with that, he's one of the most inconsistent top-tier footballers ever. There's even a pretty obvious example, Paul Lambert in the 1997 Champions League final. Let's not forget that Zidane never consistently showered himself with consistently great performances in Italy...
Funnily enough in a match against Fiorentina in 1997, he was criticised for dropping out of play when the match became more fierce. And against Verona in 1997, it was noted how Zidane struggled greatly against their pressing. And these aren't world-beaters we're talking about, these are names you would probably find in Italian football trivia puzzles -- Sebastiano Siviglia, Paolo Vanoli, Leonardo Colucci -- these aren't names you would associate with legends of calcio, like Desailly or Gullit.
Funnily enough in a match against Fiorentina in 1997, he was criticised for dropping out of play when the match became more fierce. And against Verona in 1997, it was noted how Zidane struggled greatly against their pressing. And these aren't world-beaters we're talking about, these are names you would probably find in Italian football trivia puzzles -- Sebastiano Siviglia, Paolo Vanoli, Leonardo Colucci -- these aren't names you would associate with legends of calcio, like Desailly or Gullit.
Don't be ridiculous Pippa, you know we are taking players at their peak, unless you are unilaterally changing the rules now
1997 counts as a part of Zidane's peak, no? I would've assumed so, considering he finished 3rd in World Player of the Year voting and won Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year.
I mean, if you want I can gather examples from 1998, or 1999, or 2000, or 2001, any time during his best period with Rube. I don't mind.
I mean, if you want I can gather examples from 1998, or 1999, or 2000, or 2001, any time during his best period with Rube. I don't mind.
Go ahead, try convincing people that is Zidane's level, don't stop1997 counts as a part of Zidane's peak, no? I would've assumed so, considering he finished 3rd in World Player of the Year voting and won Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year.
I mean, if you want I can gather examples from 1998, or 1999, or 2000, or 2001, any time during his best period with Rube. I don't mind.
Meanwhile, you have these issues to address
1. Midfield - How will Pippa's team handle defensive to offensive transitions and who is setting the team's tempo, playmaking and keeping the supply lines open? Which midfield will have a more balanced, coordinated display or unbalanced and disjointed? That will almost singlehandedly decide the flow and outcome of the game
2. The ball travels much faster than players and critically the ball does not tire like players. Pippa has his players chasing after Zidane-Redondo-Busquets-Laudrup passing the ball at high speed, it inevitably wears players out and leaves gaps. Zidane, Redondo and Laudrup will exploit those gaps to create gilt-edged chances.
3. Eto'o vs Van Nistelrooy - both are extraordinary goalscorers. The key is to limit Van Nistelrooy by keeping him out of the box and isolated of supply, where his relative lack of pace and ability to create opportunities will count against him.
4. Rio vs Djukic - who will be unraveled by the pace of the front 3 getting in behind/attacking the channels?
Pippa's team has no midfield playmaker and an isolated striker who is outmatched in pace and unable to create opportunities on his own. Is Gullit expected to make up 50 yards in an instant or Desailly to start spraying 50 yard cross-field/through balls? If Pippa is setting up to play counterattacking football, he needs the outstanding passer half to the runner half of the equation, which he does not have! It is like: ok we counterattack now, everybody run! but err...who makes the searching pass to find the runner who has got in behind? In any case, I have Redondo, Busquets, Rio, Cannavaro, Gallas and Alaba (my backline is chockfull of pace) to smother the counterattacking, which is the best any could hope for really.
My CBs are player closer to the box than Pippa's. If anything, it will be Djukic exposed by Eto'o's pace rather than Rio/Cannavaro by Van Nistelrooy. I have Rio as the covering defender vs Djukic on Pippa's. Who is more likely to be unraveled by pace?
How do people ignore the 4 issues above, particularly the first 2 which is so fundamental to the team?
We're not talking consistency here, we're assuming players playing at their very highest level, as everyone can have off days.
1. There is no tempo-setter, you don't play with one when you're up against a possession-based team. You will rarely, if ever see a team that is clearly going to play counter-attacking football have someone who can dictate the flow of the game. I took out Sousa, someone who is renowned for his ability to spray passes everywhere on the pitch because he wouldn't be as useful as Desailly in defending against your core group of midfielders. What I do have, is a pair of technically gifted central midfielders alongside the best pairing of wingers in this match-up who can cause a lot of damage to your weakness, the wings. Your biggest strength, your midfield, is up against Desailly-Gullit-Vieira. How difficult does it get from there?
2. I think you're underestimating how good Desailly was at man-marking. He wasn't called "the octopus" for no reason, you know? Is it chasing shadows, or is it standing your ground? You look at how teams press the opposition in the defensive third in the modern game -- Borussia Dortmund, Atlético Madrid -- they don't chase after the player, rather they chase after the space they want to make, closing down opportunities and forcing them to play the ball backwards. And that's what Busquets does when pressed...passes the ball backwards to the open men.
3. Yes, van Nistelrooy is a target man, never known for creativity, definitely. He's certainly not slower or less agile than your central defenders, notably Ferdinand. Eto'o is not creative either, and he certainly never was as good of a finisher than van Nistelrooy was. Thiago Silva can easily match him in speed, and it's not like I'm playing a higher defensive line here, I could've sworn I put something like that in my points.
4. I seem to remember Ferdinand being completely beaten for quickness by the likes of Danny (Zenit) and Roque Santa Cruz in 2008, the same year he was nominated into the FIFA World XI, so hopefully this is part of his peak period according to you. If you can show me examples of Djukic being clearly beaten for speed in the same way Ferdinand was, I'd gladly agree with you on that. There's a difference between saying something, and saying something while backing it up with evidence.
Ah, I told Aldo to omit it for some reason. Dumb mistake.
Playing a deeper defensive line cuts out a prime Eto’o’s biggest strength, his raw speed. This means that if Redondo or Busquets drop into their defensive line to pick out passes, they will have time on the ball but will not be able to pick out someone running from behind.
Mate, you're having a mare here.
I've seen Ferdinand in the flesh up against flying machines like Thierry Henry and barely letting them have a kick all game. Peak Ferdinand had athleticism, raw pace and brilliant reading of the game that meant few would get the better of him.
But there were others who got the best of him during arguably his best season, which is worth pointing out. Was Thierry Henry in the Premier League in 2007?
I wouldn't get defensive if Polaroid pointed out if a defender on my team was caught out for something more than once during his peak, in fact I'd encourage it to avoid revisionism as if they were all flawless defenders, something that tends to happen when discussing defenders of older times.
I wouldn't get defensive if Polaroid pointed out if a defender on my team was caught out for something more than once during his peak, in fact I'd encourage it to avoid revisionism as if they were all flawless defenders, something that tends to happen when discussing defenders of older times.
For me the key to Pippa's team in Gullit. He should be operating more advanced to provide support to RvN. With Vieira and Dessaily that should be quite easy. This would cause DM's much confusion as they will constantly be pulled apart by your wingplay, leaving more room for Gullit feeding RvN. Him playing a CM role makes the team a bit too defensive imo, esp when he is not suited to soak up pressure.
I disagree with that. Consistency has to play a role - not across an entire career granted, but certainly across the player's peak seasons.
That is a rubbish argument. Basically it means that whenever Zidane was kept quite by someone, it was because he had an off day. Gives no credit to the defender/defensive player who did a job on him or the tactics of opposition to limit his influence.
As good as Zidane was, he is no Maradona. Man marking someone out of the game is one of the oldest football tactic and I see no reason why it can not work here as well.
If we are talking about singular match peaks then whoever made that post the other day was correct that the match should go something like
- Zidane scores a wonder volley ala 2002
- Giggs scores a wonder goal ala 1999
etc...
Makes no sense
- Zidane scores a wonder volley ala 2002
- Giggs scores a wonder goal ala 1999
etc...
Makes no sense
Ferdinand didn't really have a weakness as such, but if there was one it was strength rather than pace. In his peak years I remember him struggling with Adebeyor and Jason Roberts far more than Fernando Torres!
I never meant to say Ferdinand had that type of weakness, if anything I rate him higher than I do with Vidic. It's just that defenders aren't normally the topic of these sort of matches, almost always "possession", "midfield", "workrate" are the main topics from what I recall.
IMO (as someone who isn't a fan of United) Ferdinand's best seasons were 2006-07 and 2007-08. And if he made some dumb mistakes in that time frame, it's fair game, just like pointing out something bad Silva did from 2011-2014, or Djukic from 1993-1995.
IMO (as someone who isn't a fan of United) Ferdinand's best seasons were 2006-07 and 2007-08. And if he made some dumb mistakes in that time frame, it's fair game, just like pointing out something bad Silva did from 2011-2014, or Djukic from 1993-1995.
I see the relevance now in what he's saying. Should have read the posts leading up to it. I'll blame the tiredness of still being up at 3am.
Will mull this one over and vote in the morning.
RvN has nothing in his armor that can get the better of Rio. Rio was one of the quickest and most agile defenders at his peak and saying RvN would outpace him doesn't make any sense. Eto'o would surely have a better time against Silva and Djukic than RvN would against Rio and Cannavaro. Not convinced by thee arguments at all.
Unless you are trying to clarify a weakness that players had from showing those mistakes, it is pointless. You have also reduced Rio's peak to two years when it was a lot more than that. There isn't a player who never made mistakes, peak form or not. Rio rarely struggled against a player's "quickness" and would surely won't here.
Also, Eto'o wasn't as good as a goalscorer as RvN? 
His composure in front of goal ranks among the absolute the best. Combine that with his raw pace and greater ability on the ball, he's easily a better scorer than RvN and well proven on the biggest of stage.
Instead of arguing areas where you actually have the upper hand you have just decided to throw mud on every single player in his team, some based on random incidents like a game against Blackburn
and some based on flawed arguments. I would rather vote for Pol now because at least he seems to be well informed about his opposition.
His composure in front of goal ranks among the absolute the best. Combine that with his raw pace and greater ability on the ball, he's easily a better scorer than RvN and well proven on the biggest of stage. Instead of arguing areas where you actually have the upper hand you have just decided to throw mud on every single player in his team, some based on random incidents like a game against Blackburn
and some based on flawed arguments. I would rather vote for Pol now because at least he seems to be well informed about his opposition.He said Etoo was not as good a finisher as Ruud, which strikes me as true.
I don't know about you, but to me van Nistelrooy is certainly a better finisher than Eto'o. You know, because that's what I said. Not goalscorer, even though I could argue it easily. The numbers back it up. Funnily enough Eto'o's raw pace and greater ability on the ball never allowed him to score more goals than van Nistelrooy during each of their peaks.
Defenders are criticised and debated over far less than the midfielders and forwards. Goalkeepers are essentially irrelevant, if they're not awful. The bigger the name, the more free of a ride they get from what I've seen. Look at the last match, 342 posts and Puyol is mentioned 10 times. Ferrara 3 times. Before the penalties, Peruzzi was mentioned 0 times. Cañizares 0 times. I'm almost certain you'll see it as a pattern if you look at other draft games.
Is it a mistake on my part to point out that stars did make errors, that they did look out of sorts more than once, during their peaks? You could see the revisionism in Polaroid's comments about Zidane, how nobody could shut him down for 90 minutes, which is obviously not true. It's fair game to me if someone wants to criticise Silva, say that he isn't up to the calibre of Ferdinand-Cannavaro. I'll argue against it fully. If you don't think van Nistelrooy can trouble his central defenders, I'll argue against it fully. At least it's better than looking back at him and remembering all his high points and forgetting the lows.
I thought Ferdinand's best seasons were from 2006-2008. Even Polaroid made sure to point out that Ferdinand was "untouchable" as the best defender of the late 2000s. Quickly running through the "Rio - SAF's greatest defender?" thread quite a few people make sure to point out events in the 2007-08 season. Sure, he was great for other periods of his career, but again, weren't his best seasons in that time period? Same with Zidane, who was stunning in 2002 and 2003 in Madrid, but his peak was obviously in Italy. Djukic, who was great with Valencia but he was better with Depor.
Those events are rare -- elite footballers don't tend to make mistakes often -- but you can't deny that they have happened. And so I'll point it out, I see no issue with that. I made sure to point out that I don't see Ferdinand's pace as a weakness, but I would be lying if I said he didn't get troubled by it. Same way that if you point out something for any of my players, I'll take it in stride. You've said that van Nistelrooy "has nothing in his armor that can get the better of Rio", I'll point out Santa Cruz who put in a Man of the Match performance against United in 2008, exploiting an error that Ferdinand made to score a goal. If Ruud has nothing that can get the better of him, how the feck did Roque?
Have I thrown mud at every single player on his team? I don't think I have. I might've been harsh with Alaba, but really, who's a bigger weak link as a defender in this match-up? I said Cannavaro wasn't known for his distribution, am I wrong? I pointed out bad scenes that Ferdinand had in 2006-2008, I have no idea why that's a bad thing. The comment on his pace wasn't 100% accurate, I'll apologise to @Polaroid for that. I gave examples that showed Zidane wasn't so perfect during his peak, well what I thought his peak period in 1997, if you think it's not I'll gladly pull up examples from his WPOTY-winning seasons.
If you don't think I'm "well-informed" about the players in question, so be it. I won't bother trying to change your mind, you've already changed your vote anyways.
Defenders are criticised and debated over far less than the midfielders and forwards. Goalkeepers are essentially irrelevant, if they're not awful. The bigger the name, the more free of a ride they get from what I've seen. Look at the last match, 342 posts and Puyol is mentioned 10 times. Ferrara 3 times. Before the penalties, Peruzzi was mentioned 0 times. Cañizares 0 times. I'm almost certain you'll see it as a pattern if you look at other draft games.
Is it a mistake on my part to point out that stars did make errors, that they did look out of sorts more than once, during their peaks? You could see the revisionism in Polaroid's comments about Zidane, how nobody could shut him down for 90 minutes, which is obviously not true. It's fair game to me if someone wants to criticise Silva, say that he isn't up to the calibre of Ferdinand-Cannavaro. I'll argue against it fully. If you don't think van Nistelrooy can trouble his central defenders, I'll argue against it fully. At least it's better than looking back at him and remembering all his high points and forgetting the lows.
I thought Ferdinand's best seasons were from 2006-2008. Even Polaroid made sure to point out that Ferdinand was "untouchable" as the best defender of the late 2000s. Quickly running through the "Rio - SAF's greatest defender?" thread quite a few people make sure to point out events in the 2007-08 season. Sure, he was great for other periods of his career, but again, weren't his best seasons in that time period? Same with Zidane, who was stunning in 2002 and 2003 in Madrid, but his peak was obviously in Italy. Djukic, who was great with Valencia but he was better with Depor.
Those events are rare -- elite footballers don't tend to make mistakes often -- but you can't deny that they have happened. And so I'll point it out, I see no issue with that. I made sure to point out that I don't see Ferdinand's pace as a weakness, but I would be lying if I said he didn't get troubled by it. Same way that if you point out something for any of my players, I'll take it in stride. You've said that van Nistelrooy "has nothing in his armor that can get the better of Rio", I'll point out Santa Cruz who put in a Man of the Match performance against United in 2008, exploiting an error that Ferdinand made to score a goal. If Ruud has nothing that can get the better of him, how the feck did Roque?
Have I thrown mud at every single player on his team? I don't think I have. I might've been harsh with Alaba, but really, who's a bigger weak link as a defender in this match-up? I said Cannavaro wasn't known for his distribution, am I wrong? I pointed out bad scenes that Ferdinand had in 2006-2008, I have no idea why that's a bad thing. The comment on his pace wasn't 100% accurate, I'll apologise to @Polaroid for that. I gave examples that showed Zidane wasn't so perfect during his peak, well what I thought his peak period in 1997, if you think it's not I'll gladly pull up examples from his WPOTY-winning seasons.
If you don't think I'm "well-informed" about the players in question, so be it. I won't bother trying to change your mind, you've already changed your vote anyways.
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"If Ruud has nothing that can get the better of him, how the feck did Roque? "
Is that a serious question?
Messi couldn't score against Terry, how the feck did half of other average PL strikers?
In other words, that's a completely wrong way to judge a player's career. No player in the history of the game has had a career where he went even one year without making a mistake. So according to your logic, Rio will be trouble by RvN because he conceded a goal against an inferior striker? What about all the games where Rio shut down strikers better than RvN? Or all the games RvN failed to score against defenders worse than Rio?
Pointing out random games out of nowhere, unless they actually clarify a well known quality/weakness of the player, is absolutely pointless and derails the purpose of having any discussion.
"Is that a serious question?
Messi couldn't score against Terry, how the feck did half of other average PL strikers?
In other words, that's a completely wrong way to judge a player's career. No player in the history of the game has had a career where he went even one year without making a mistake. So according to your logic, Rio will be trouble by RvN because he conceded a goal against an inferior striker? What about all the games where Rio shut down strikers better than RvN? Or all the games RvN failed to score against defenders worse than Rio?
Pointing out random games out of nowhere, unless they actually clarify a well known quality/weakness of the player, is absolutely pointless and derails the purpose of having any discussion.
Just to clarify this issue, and I said the same thing to Balu when he kept banging on about Madrid not being great against Bayern in the games they played, for me, you cannot judge careers while pointing out individual perfromances. It goes for both tremendously great and poor ones. It is one thing to take it as a reference point but to argue that what happened in one game will be repeated is completely irrational for me.
What you should be doing, or at least what I do, is look at the probability of events which is the defining factor for me. For example in this case, Rio conceded a goal against Santa Cruz (he was actually pretty good apart from that goal in that game but anyway) and in the same season he didn't put a foot wrong against an in form at his peak Fernando Torres who finished third in the Ballon D'or. So which Rio should we consider here?
My answer is neither of them. You just ask yourself what is the probability of him making the error that led to Santa Cruz scoring here when looking at his peak years? And also what is the probability that he will produce that sort of a flawless performance. Both would be low, but the one of the error would be much lower than the other. Or in other words, looking at his peak years it is a lot more likely that he will give in a strong performance, which led to him contributing strongly in breaking defensive records, etc than make an error that he rarely did. For me, that makes a lot more sense.
What you should be doing, or at least what I do, is look at the probability of events which is the defining factor for me. For example in this case, Rio conceded a goal against Santa Cruz (he was actually pretty good apart from that goal in that game but anyway) and in the same season he didn't put a foot wrong against an in form at his peak Fernando Torres who finished third in the Ballon D'or. So which Rio should we consider here?
My answer is neither of them. You just ask yourself what is the probability of him making the error that led to Santa Cruz scoring here when looking at his peak years? And also what is the probability that he will produce that sort of a flawless performance. Both would be low, but the one of the error would be much lower than the other. Or in other words, looking at his peak years it is a lot more likely that he will give in a strong performance, which led to him contributing strongly in breaking defensive records, etc than make an error that he rarely did. For me, that makes a lot more sense.
Was it Terry that Messi struggles against, or was it Chelsea that Messi struggles against? Because when I think about those Chelsea-Barcelona ties, valiant, "blood and thunder" defending from Chelsea as a whole come to mind, not superb one-man defensive performances.
I'm not judging Ferdinand's career. I'm not exactly sure where you think I'm doing that, I'm not even making a negative judgement of his ability right now. All I am pointing out is that he was not some superman defender at his peak. Bellamy, Milevskiy, Kuyt, Danny, Roque, and Torres would all attest to that, all within the 2007-2009 period.
They're not random events, not one bit. I'm pointing them out for a reason. Defending is a collective effort unless you're strictly marking someone. If you want to show me examples of better forwards that Ferdinand marked out, feel free.
Have I ever said that Ferdinand would be troubled by van Nistelrooy exactly due to that reason? Because if you're assuming that, I can assure you that you're way off. Everything that I've described van Nistelrooy with has the concept of a forward who knows how to hold up play, and can bury chances. Not someone who will be able to run at defences at will.
I'm not judging Ferdinand's career. I'm not exactly sure where you think I'm doing that, I'm not even making a negative judgement of his ability right now. All I am pointing out is that he was not some superman defender at his peak. Bellamy, Milevskiy, Kuyt, Danny, Roque, and Torres would all attest to that, all within the 2007-2009 period.
They're not random events, not one bit. I'm pointing them out for a reason. Defending is a collective effort unless you're strictly marking someone. If you want to show me examples of better forwards that Ferdinand marked out, feel free.
Have I ever said that Ferdinand would be troubled by van Nistelrooy exactly due to that reason? Because if you're assuming that, I can assure you that you're way off. Everything that I've described van Nistelrooy with has the concept of a forward who knows how to hold up play, and can bury chances. Not someone who will be able to run at defences at will.
No, because I don't deal in examples. As I explained, in the earlier post.
I still think you're completely wrong here though. What you call an off day were in reality several games in which those players struggled against a certain type of football again and again (they in fact had much more off days than good days against these type of teams and never showed their peak form). Ignoring that and saying 'but he showed so often how to play pretty football against a Spanish or English team' is just ignoring a bad match-up, something that decides games in football again and again. You take away a very interesting and important dimension of these games, makes no sense to me.
Fair enough, I won't argue against how you judge footballers. The way I see it, looking at "probabilities" and things along those lines is a judging method very, very susceptible to revisionism, especially the further back you go.
I'm not ignoring them, I'm just saying they get balanced by the great days the players have. If you are just considering the off days then it is actually you who is ignoring the games which made them great, no?
So why concentrate on just one of those two, and not the balance? If a player had 2 off games compared to 8 good games in a set of 10, would you rather be more interested in the 2? Would the player more likely to produce the bad ones or the good ones?
And the other method is nothing but convenience, which can be used to suit your argument. You point out a player's bad games, the other would point out his good games, both because that suits their argument while both being incomplete. While it is obvious and a fact that every player has good games and bad games.
If your point is he's more likely to make an error than to shut down his opponent, do say so.
I would ask myself why he had those 2 bad games actually and then give some credit to the opponent for doing something right. It's not like we're digging some random unimportant games out here, we're talking about important games against big teams on the highest possible stages, where players rarely lack motivation. Unless they played injured they are determined to bring their best football and if they don't there's more to it than just an off day. (Well, Pippa did in the beginning before he got sidetracked and used rather idiotic examples
).Sure, that's not my problem with it at all. As long as you are giving credit and blame in the appropriate amounts.
You can blame Zidane for not being at his best against Dortmund, but you should give him credit for destroying Brazil in 2006 WC, for example. Which brings us back to what he did more of?
It's funny because I'm known to be a "zidane hater" here as anto would tell you.
But I'm not judging Ferdinand's overall ability, nor am I judging his career. I claimed that Ferdinand made dumb errors even during his peak, and I offered examples. SAF himself talked about how Ferdinand always had a casual side to his game. And because really, how many of those errors he made could be attributed to his lack of concentration? Ferdinand is apparently "undisputable" as the best central defender of the late 2000s, but he's not even the unanimous best defender at his club during that time frame. I don't get it.
Which is what you need to do when considering how he will perform in a hypothetical match, and not a rare error he made.
Well, in that case, I'm not so sure. He probably had as many average to bad knockout games in international tournaments as great ones like the one against Brazil. I actually give him a lot of credit for being a big game player and would in general highlight that he could bring his peak form if necessary. However, I'd still look at why he didn't in the games he struggled in and not simply call it an off day. That's just wrong.
It's also funny that Pippa reacted to your 'Ferdinand is superhuman' comments. You made the same in my game, basically called him flawless and able to nullify all my counterattacks, doesn't matter who he's partnered with in defense (I think it was when Antohan mentioned that Hummels + Ferdinand together in a high line will struggle because they are a bad pairing). It was completely mental, I just ignored it because I didn't want to have the Redondo discussion all over again. Funny that Pippa reacted to similar comments now and got dragged into a fight where a few badly phrased comments make him look like someone who doesn't know his opponent in your opinion now. Makes no sense to me.
Exactly, which is why I haven't said anything along the lines of he would look out of place, or something like that. Which is why I've stressed that Alaba is the only defender who doesn't belong, especially looking at the rest of Polaroid's backline. When someone says "x" player is undisputably the best, or "y" player can't be stopped for 90 minutes, what's the best way to counter that claim? To me, it's providing examples that disagree with that notion. Just about every player in this draft is top-notch, so what's the use of using such hyperbole?
I mean sure, if I went out of my way to say that Zidane can struggle heavily when pressed, using the 1997 example against Verona, that would be stupid and out of place, I agree. If I said that Zidane could easily be marked out and use the example of Cagliari 1998 or Dortmund 1997, that would be stupid and out of place. But I used those examples in response to claims made by the opposition, which is where I don't see any issue. Obviously you disagree, and it sparked a decent discussion, especially in the "down time" of this game.
I mean sure, if I went out of my way to say that Zidane can struggle heavily when pressed, using the 1997 example against Verona, that would be stupid and out of place, I agree. If I said that Zidane could easily be marked out and use the example of Cagliari 1998 or Dortmund 1997, that would be stupid and out of place. But I used those examples in response to claims made by the opposition, which is where I don't see any issue. Obviously you disagree, and it sparked a decent discussion, especially in the "down time" of this game.
Yeah agree about Zidane as you would see from my opinion on him in other threads. I react the same way when people call him "the ultimate big game" player and what not. But sometimes it is simply an off day, sometimes it is due to a systematic countering from the opposition. Which one is it, depends on which game you are looking at. A lot of times great players don't play at their best against average opposition who before and after that game struggle to stop half the opponents of the quality, and you cannot see any particular tactical reason either, so in that you just have to call it an off day. Strikers who are clinical have days where they find themselves in front of open goals and miss, that's just an off day.
As for the rest, you have taken the comment out of context. It was said in relation to him playing a high line, it wasn't to say Rio was superhuman or flawless or anything. I trust him more than most others to carry off a good high line.