Alright, then this would be even more in line with the impression I had of him as a libero. (I didn't watch him a lot before 1970, which was the last time when he played DM in the NT, afaik).
Bozsik, Didi, Blanchflower, Coluna and even early Gerson....
Bozsik agreed, others not so much. Didi was closer to a 10 then to a DM, Coluna wasnt a DLP, Gerson id say was more of a classic midfield playmaker and Blancflower i dont know, only watched one match compilation of him but his passing didnt look special.
This is the key. The position of DLP didn't really exist as such there and if any of the above played.modern football, they'd excel as a DLP.
Yeah, agree with this overall assessment. Didi could play both deep and AM but if translated to modern game I'd probably have him in more advanced position than Pirlo or even Xavi.
There were 5 items in your list. Here they are in random order:Can one of you lovely chaps randomize A, B, C, D and E with random.org, please? Thanks, we're trialing “Mobster Draft” this time around.
Check your inbox mate, but before that, ooh — can you randomize A, B, C, D, E and F? Grazie!I'm feeling excluded
I couldn’t decide whether to put him in this or the other central defender category. There’s a case for both given his quality on the ball and inclination for forward runs, set against his dynamic stopper tendencies. His experience of playing alongside more obvious sweeper/covering types in Ramelow and Edmílson plonked him into the other category for me, but it’s not something I thought about a great deal. I think it was more a case of one of these modern defenders who could slip into either group.
Yeah you do have a point here mate. He's like Nesta and Figueroa - wouldn't look out of place in either category and would be interesting to see the overlaps in both categories after the ball playing defenders is done.
I definitely rate Carvalho higher. A classy ball player and a top notch defender all through. I don't recall any weakness to his game. He'd be there in top lists of CBs between 2004-10.
Maybe just like Lucio, he worked in mysterious way. They both were world class but I just don't see them as top 20 of all time great. The likes of Ferrara has more claim, imho.
How dare you not include the 2003-04 season with Porto. Was in top 10 of Ballon Dor rankings immediately after that season.
Oops, my mistake!
I think it will make for a good discussion, especially since this is a player many people have watched extensively.
I'd prefer not to see him in the top 3 personally but anywhere else in the Top 10 seems fine to me. He was obviously revolutionary in the whole sweeper-keeper thing but maybe that detracts from his brilliance in the more traditional aspects of goalkeeping. Match compilations strangely don't seem to capture the essence of a GK's display fully, but at the time I thought he was mind-blowing against us for Schalke despite conceding two goals in the final quarter of the match. Up to that point I just had a sinking feeling we weren't going to win as it was like watching peak Schmeichel in terms of his shot-stopping and general aura.
And off topic on the bolded part, it's hard to imagine a Utd team being decribed in those terms again right nowGuardian said:
I struggle to think of many keepers that performed at such incredible level domestically year after year. And he was quite good in Europe as well, although with that team he rarely got the chance to show it. His national team resume is horrific, but other than that...
I struggle to think that other then Premier League, others rate him that high. Madrid has shown interest, but it's more about his nationality. They couldn't bother to splash cash for a supposedly top 20 GOAT?
This is not true, IMO, even though there's a tendency to retroactively downplay his greatness because he's going to through a rough stretch and his national team career can be picked apart. De Gea was present in each of the last four FIFPro Yearly squads (including the Starting XI), so he is rated on a global level by other professionals...
This is not someone who is rated by just deluded United fans, or not rated outside of the Premier League.
This is not a suitable metric to judge David, though. They wanted David desperately but we were not willing sellers (and their cash was useless when we didn't want to let go), which is why they trained their sights on Courtois instead. And now that Zidane is back, they are unlikely to make massive bids again because he is generally fine with whatever goalkeeper he has and he wants to make Courtois the undisputed #1 (with Lunin as the #2 unless Keylor stays at the club in which case he former goes on loan, and Luca Zidane featuring somewhere in the squad).
I'm sorry, but he only featured once at Best XI, and others on 2nd or 3rd best team? How is it equal to others rate him as GOAT or even best of this era?
There’s probably a slight United and age bias in there running through the list with Schmeichel 3rd, Van der Sar 9th and De Gea 16th. Age because it’s likely the majority of voters grew up exposed vividly to one of those three. Notwithstanding their quality and respecting the objectivity of the posters in here (who are far more neutral than other fan bases), I don’t think they collectively get quite as high on another club’s forum. Or more specifically with De Gea, his primarily domestic achievements are less likely to be recognised elsewhere. After all I think he’s the only keeper in the top 20 without a meaningful international career / performance series behind him. The next one of that ilk on the list is probably Southall.
No one is rating him as GOAT or the absolute best of his era, though? He's mostly towards the fag end of lists (which are a bit murky), and even though I have not included David in my Top 20, he's not a whole lot worse than some of the names around him. For 2 or 3 years, he probably was the best in the world, despite playing behind a defense that is significantly worse than his opposition for the #1 spot — which loosely correlates with a Top 20 All-Time spot when you extrapolate the period by a factor of x20. For reference, Jan Oblak has featured in the FIFPro world squad only once (for the 5th team) and I wouldn't begrudge someone including him in the Top 15-20 spots if he is he best goalkeeper in the world for the coming year because he is building a nice record and is objectively not a whole lot worse than some of the other Top 16-20 picks.
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, to be honest. Like, yes, United's judgement of not extending his contract ahead of time is definitely what we need to judge De Gea? Because this is the club that gives long term deals to the likes of Big Dunc Jones and Marcos Rojo and Jesse Lingard on sizeable wages — we're clearly the masters of extension, and our ability to secure contracts or not bothering with some is the ultimate barometer for greatness/crapness!
Yeh. Maybe it's just my bias that I'm expecting more from a Top 20 GOAT. I don't think extrapolation from CB can be used to measure greatness. Him being not dominating his box should count more.
I genuinely think Schmeichel worth at least top 5, but agreed that VdS and DDG are too high on the list. I'd even take Pagliuca over those later two, even though he didn't even make top 30
.Fair, I would have qualms regarding his inclusion in the Top 20 as well — he does have a few inconvenient holes in his resumé (lack of success in senior international football and elite stages of the European Cup) or overall skill set (lack of commanding leadership and foresight on the ball), but this is a United forum and, at times, there will be some favoritism towards the home team. That being said, post-modern goalkeepers on the whole are undoubtedly (and objectively) better than older counterparts — that works in De Gea's favor, as does his domestic dominance (5 time League Goalkeeper of the Season).
From a historical perspective, goalkeepers are rarely on the move (or major transfer targets for elite teams), unless the current club is a willing seller or the player runs out of contract. And the teams that can afford him have good keepers of their own (or he doesn't suit their style of play), so the apparent lack of transfer interest is understandable, IMO. If you magically make every current goalkeeper a free agent and start a draft, De Gea will almost definitely be a Top 3 pick (I'm guessing with Juventus for some odd reason)!
Well put, imo. That's my basic view on him as well, perhaps apart from some details in the description.
Personally I wouldn't put De Gea 16th, but it's no mockery to have him that high. Slight hometeam bias at best.
I don't know man. I think we often forget his Ajax stint. He is the only goalkeeper to have won the UCL with two different clubs. While being an integral part of both, so can't really discount them as just team accolades. And both teams can claim to be in the top 5 club teams of the last 30 years. If anything, I feel he is a bit underrated outside the United circles.
That is exactly what came to my mind as well when I saw the list.
I had a sublist of modern complete centrebacks (which included Ferdinand), who are arguably better defenders than some on my list, but not better liberos than my list. That said, Rio, Hierro, Israel, Ferrara and Tresor probably completed my top 25 when I was cutting the names down to 20.@BIG DUNK you forgot Rio or you dont have him in top 20?
