The other point is that unlike last year where they could use the armpit line as a consistent measuring point for offsides, now they have to use an imaginary spot on the arm instead because of the change to the handball rule. So these offside calls have been made more subjective and less accurate since last season even. Which is stupid.
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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I'm really struggling to grasp how any person in the world can think the kind of discussions we're having now are improving the game. Yesterday was another horror show for VAR. The game would have been completed with less controversy, less annoying interruptions and more correct decisions without it. It's been here for a while now and it's not getting any better despite constant changes to the rules and the use of VAR. Scrap it and bring the game back.
Would need a higher def image but I think you can see a dotted red running from where they're measuring on the arm down to the main red line on the ground. Looks like that dotted red line runs ahead of Adams' knee, as it seems to pass through the bit of Fred(?)'s boot you can see in front of the knee.
That’s the million dollar question. Is the line drawing dude seeing a much higher definition image? If so, why isn’t it shown on tv? If not, why isn’t he being given the tech he needs to do his job properly?!
It seems to me they’re digging deeper holes trying to get out of the hole they made.
It’s funny that Twitter guy that you post has probably never been so busy with dodgy calls since VAR, every single week there’s explaining to do over an iffy or wrong decision, I bet he’s loving it.
That looks really close, outside the box but part of Cavani's foot is on the line.
Reminds me of this in the game between Liverpool and Sheff Utd: https://insidexpress.com/media/Live...ontroversy-after-Fabinho-appears-1160x773.png
That decision looks easier because Fabinho's in the box, but I'd say bith incidents are very similar. VAR just lacks consistency for me.
They have ultra-HD at Stockley Park. Obviously not everyone on the receiving end has ultra-HD.
The offside lines are uniquely calibrated for each pitch too. Different cameras are in different positions in different stadiums, so a lot of the angles we see as viewers vary from match to match. Of course, some things to the human eye are going to look misaligned or not quite right... but the reality is, they're spot on (see video below).
The real issue, I guess, is the inherent level of human subjectivity/accuracy over where the VAR starts to draw lines on players when it comes to these armpit offsides.
Peter Walton explained that the rule was brought in because of the goakeepers getting sent off along with a pen when strikers would just nick the ball in front of them . That basically seemed too harsh a punishment for something that was a bang bang play . I think a case can be made for it not applying to defenders
I couldn't imagine VAR implementation being any worse. Some of the decisions, even after a lengthy review, have been baffling. No consistency from game to game, and the standards and interpretations have shifted throughout the season. Good, bad, or somewhere in between, it needs to be consistent which has simply not been the case since matchweek 1.
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It's taking the fun out of the game. I genuinely barely even enjoyed yesterday when I should be ecstatic at the result. It's not like all this time spent reviewing everything is making the calls any more accurate either, at least if it was doing that you could justify it but instead it seems like they constantly are doing something that doesn't make any sense.
Off the top of my head from yesterday alone you have; Cavani's non-penalty, not letting play go on when Greenwood would've almost definitely scored, the Che Adams non-goal, everything about the Bednarek/Martial incident. We still would've won massively but the time spent on all of those and just how wrong they seemed to have got them all put a bad taste in my mouth about it. I don't think any football fan would've wanted to see the Adams goal ruled out or Bednarek sent off.
Off the top of my head from yesterday alone you have; Cavani's non-penalty, not letting play go on when Greenwood would've almost definitely scored, the Che Adams non-goal, everything about the Bednarek/Martial incident. We still would've won massively but the time spent on all of those and just how wrong they seemed to have got them all put a bad taste in my mouth about it. I don't think any football fan would've wanted to see the Adams goal ruled out or Bednarek sent off.
With offside calls, they are trying to extrapolate a 3D Situation from a 2D picture. There is no way that it can be accurate enough to measure a few centimetres of a difference in offsides. That surely casts doubt on the claim that offside calls are purely objective?
Unless they are somehow creating a 3D image from different camera angles?
Unless they are somehow creating a 3D image from different camera angles?
A lot of focus (obviously) on the decision on our game, but the Luiz one yesterday really was crazy to me.
He literally got sent off for... running? should defenders be expected to run more carefully? I mean it's not like he's right up his arse... also what if attackers have pronounced flick backs of their feet when they run? I get all this "by the letter of the law" stuff... but surely it isn't too much to ask to allow for common sense?
He literally got sent off for... running? should defenders be expected to run more carefully? I mean it's not like he's right up his arse... also what if attackers have pronounced flick backs of their feet when they run? I get all this "by the letter of the law" stuff... but surely it isn't too much to ask to allow for common sense?
I didn’t think the Martial penalty was a penalty but it is these days. They should take a leaf from Rugby whereby the man in the van will speak to the ref directly and his linesmen help too. They also will put the incident on the ‘big screen’. Then it’s all about interpretation, last night United fans would say yes to the pen and Saints fans no. The Referee in Rugby is the sole arbiter of fact and, although players may disagree, they take the decision and get on with it. To be fair, there is no tooling about with computer images and some offences are technical ones. For VAR to work and be fair, the offside Law should be improved and made clearer so elbows cannot be offside for instance. Perhaps say the torso must be behind or level with the last defender. I would still like to see a ‘sin bin’ for players that ‘take one for the team’ like pulling a player back when they get on a run.
Can we request Michael Oliver never ref us in the future?
And Jon Moss.
And Martin Atkinson.
Just reading Dermot Gallagher on ref watch about Che Adams disallowed goal. He says because the process was messy and they drew the lines twice, they should "let the goal stand".
But both times they drew the lines, it came up Offside. Granted, it looked onside to the eye, but if the technology says Offside twice, why would you go against it? The scoreline at the time is irrelevant.
But both times they drew the lines, it came up Offside. Granted, it looked onside to the eye, but if the technology says Offside twice, why would you go against it? The scoreline at the time is irrelevant.
I actually think that's a deserved red.
I mean it's 1) a foul 100 percent, and 2) an obvious clear goal scoring opportunity.
The only defence is he didn't mean to try to deliberately foul him, but he's never in a position to make a legitimate tackle in the first place and then trips him up. And David Luiz is the type of cynical player that would 'accidentally' clip a man.
Not sure how that isn't a penalty in the city game
Luiz is never going to get back to tackle him, he gets far too close and you know there’s a chance you’ll clip somebody’s heels from behind if you run that close. It’s clumsy and a clear foul.
In that situation you just need to trust the goalkeeper, or take the 1/1 and go again. Instead he gives a pen and a red card which is 100% worse.
Sometimes you just have to accept you’ve made an error and let it go, they would have won as they were clearly the better team - but that ruined it for them.
VAR is just plain stupid.
Contact with face != red.
If its going to be that technical.. why even have a ref out there.. automate the who fecking thing. At least it'll be consistently shit.
Contact with face != red.
If its going to be that technical.. why even have a ref out there.. automate the who fecking thing. At least it'll be consistently shit.
VAR is fine, it’s the refs. VAR is simply exposing how crap the officiating is. They can’t pretend they didn’t see an incident, they’re looking at it 20 times and getting it completely wrong.
Can’t believe Soucek got sent off for that, on Sky they referred to his “clenched fist” unbelievable.
VAR is the refs.
If VAR doesnt think an error has been made, they wont stop the game and ask the ref to go look at the monitor.
Every time they send the ref over, its saying they think an error has been made.
But VAR is just a referee sitting in a room looking at a monitor. It’s still an officiating issue.
As I’m sure has been stated, VAR isn’t the issue: the standard of officiating is.
Yeah exactly. It’s just two different guys with two different interpretations of the same rules. VAR’s problem has always been the people in charge of it.
Terrible decision by Dean and Mason.
I thought they’d figured out a couple of years ago that repeating incidents in slow motion distorts the level of intent involved. But here we are, still doing it and still fecking up.
Drives me mad watching them only watch slow motion replays. They should be watching both. The Soucek one earlier Dean was looking straight at when it happened, how did he not already know?
Exactly. So how can VAR be fine when that’s what it is?
No they didn't. They said Lee Mason the var ref said he has a clenched fist. Both redknapp and Bobby zamora laughed it of.
It wasn't sky
Because the argument is to scrap VAR because it’s apparently ruining the game.
Yeah, because VAR is and always will be the same collection of refs watching and making the decisions.
Soucek’s red card will be rescinded.. but if it’s not, he can’t play against us, so happy days
Looks weird why he’s lifting his arm that when then I thought Soucek is probably just lifting his arm about to point telling the free kick taker where to put it. Stupid decision.
That they need 3-4 minutes for such a decision (Right or wrong is irrelevant) was first anger but now it is just funny.
They should all be mic’d up like this. Just so everyone can understand what is happening and why.
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