Replacing Ronaldo & Tevez with Valencia & Owen

[Annihilate Now!]

Well we we won 2 PL titles , 1 CL and 1 league cup in this 2 years. The most successful period in United's history.
I get the hate for Tevez on here as he went to City, but come on give him more credit than comparing him with Lukukka.

Which is also the period we had the best player in the world and the best defence in the world. Bit of a reach to attribute that to Tevez, one of our least important players at the time.

His first touch was shocking. Seriously, my lasting memory of him is sat at OT watching him chase around his own wayward first touch.

People remeber the player Tevez was for City (a compeltely different one then he was for us) in my opinion.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Which is also the period we had the best player in the world and the best defence in the world. Bit of a reach to attribute that to Tevez, one of our least important players at the time.

His first touch was shocking. Seriously, my lasting memory of him is sat at OT watching him chase around his own wayward first touch.

People remeber the player Tevez was for City (a compeltely different one then he was for us) in my opinion.

Ronaldo was the main man for these wins, but Tevez was very important for our attack too.
Mainly for that first season since once we got Berbatov he had a minor role to play in the league and CL.
For us to win the CL it was mainly our defense and midfield that did well. We only scored 1 goal against Barca and then Ronaldos header in the final.

Although in the league we scored a lot with Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo in attack.

 

[Amir]

I think a big part of the hope was that we'd play differently with other players stepping up. We were never going to get another Ronaldo, but if Rooney steps up with goals (which he did), Berbatov settles in, Nani steps up (which he did for a while) and we get him and and Valencia doing their different things on the wings, we could have had a very good team. Some of it worked.

 

[Josh 76]

Is that why he got the boot?

After reading all the reports and comments of other players, this is my take on it

Tevez was confused in why Utd signed Berbabtov as Utd had just won the PL and CL (Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo).
Tevez was the one who was constantly being dropped for Berbatov. (Having spent 30m on him, Fergie had to play him).
Also during that season, Tevez was in his final year of his 2 year loan agreement and Utd did not show any signs of signing him. His agent then started talking to other clubs, still no offer from Utd.
Then when the stories started comming out that City had made a bid and his agent was in talks, Utd apparently put a bid in, but it was too late and Tevez had made his mind up. Not sure who is to blame for his exit, but no way did Tevez get the boot!

 

[LDUred]

Talking as if Valencia was a shit signing is not only incredibly harsh on the man, but a distortion of historic truth. It's part of how fans tend to attribute the back end of a player's time at United to their time at the club as a whole: especially if that period was somewhat underwhelming.

He was hardly a like-for-like swap with Ronaldo (who would have been?), but he still acquitted himself well and made a valuable contribution, minus a few of the fireworks necessary to be considered a true legend for a club of our stature. All in all, he had a very good career and he came back from a devastating leg injury that would have finished off a lot of players completely.

Around the time he signed for us quite a few other big clubs were in for him. He was a success for us and the fact that he tailed off towards the end of his career and became quite mediocre should not disguise his earlier achievements or his commitment to Old Trafford.

Our present set-up would be vastly improved by having Tony marauding down the right flank as he did when he was voted our player of the season.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Talking as if Valencia was a shit signing is not only incredibly harsh on the man but a distortion of the truth. It's part of how fans tend to attribute the back end of a players time at a club to their time at the club as a whole, especially if that period was underwhelming.

He was hardly a like-for-like swap with Ronaldo, but he still acquitted himself well and made a strong contribution. He had a very good career and he came back from a devastating leg injury that would have finished a lot of players.

Around the time he signed for us quite a few other big clubs were in for him. He was a success for us and the fact that he tailed off towards the end of his career and became quite mediocre should not disguise his earlier achievements or his commitment to Old Trafford.

Our present set-up would be vastly improved by having Tony marauding down the right flank as he did when he was voted our player of the season.

Agree with that. It was more that we should have got other players too. We had the money to bring in a big signing and push for the CL without Ronaldo.

 

[Offside]

Valencia is the best signing we made since Ronaldo left if you also consider longevity (RvP obviously immense short term impact)

 

[SemiPro]

I remember reading a journalist’s opinion in one of the newspapers at the end of that window about how this was the beginning of a slow decline for United. We were at the height of our powers at the time and I remember thinking how wrong could he be. Now with hindsight, he might have been right.

 

[Josh 76]

I remember reading a journalist’s opinion in one of the newspapers at the end of that window about how this was the beginning of a slow decline for United. We were at the height of our powers at the time and I remember thinking how wrong could he be. Now with hindsight, he might have been right.

Yeah. I remember eading something similar. But like you, I laughed it off.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

This was the epicentre of the decline. Ground Zero. I was furious back then, when I heard Ronaldo was being replaced by Obertan, Valencia and Owen. It almost seemed like a parody; then I thought maybe Obertan was another diamond dug up by Fergie. Within 2-3 games, I was convinced he certainly was not. It's sickening really that the downward spiral has been going for so long, SAF just kept us above water for a couple of years.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well we won 2 PL titles , 1 CL and 1 league cup in his 2 years. The most successful period in United's history.
I get the hate for Tevez on here as he went to City, but come on give him more credit than comparing him with Lukukka.

Tevez was class, I was fuming when we spunked all that cash on Berbz instead of rewarding the PL/CL double winner with a perma deal.

Strangely though he always split the fanbase, how much was due to "siding with Fergie" I don't know. OT absolutely loved him however, treated him even better than how they did Herrera last season.

 

[VidaRed]

The robben thread in the transfer forum was memorable

 

[freeurmind]

Rooney was saying recently on Gary Neville's Soccerbox that at the time he went into Sir Alex's office to ask what was going on when these transfers happened and he seriously considered leaving.

 

[Ian Reus]

Can we not study classical history, sir?

 

[::sonny::]

That has been the beginning of the end...

signing Owen instead of Aguero + 10 years of nullity in the market

what next?

nothing will change probably, a relegation in the next 10 years for me it‘s sure

United like Nokia, Blockbuster and Kodak

 

[marktan]

Yeah because Tevez was extremely selfless and he ran around like a crazy person for him/the team.

In terms of actual performance on the pitch, he wasn't THAT good. Very good team player, but definitely room for improvement as a player. I mean for a start, his first touch was reminiscent of Lukakus...

Also be acted like a giant twat towards the end too

Nah as a player he was very good for us. Technically excellent and our front 3 scored some great combo goals. I'm still baffled that SAF chose Berbatov over Tevez. His finishing wasn't yet as good as it was for Juve but for work effort alone he was twice the player Berba ever was.

 

[Ian Reus]

This is a bit like closing the fridge after the Aldi mince has bolted.

 

[Rood]

I dont agree at all with the whole 'this is when our decline started' - its an insult to a very good squad that won the league and reached CL Finals

I actually got my tagline because I was one of the few who wanted to get rid of Tevez (was not so great for us and it was well known he was not a 'team' player) and bring in Owen

It is forgotten by many that Berbatov came in the year before on a UK record fee, IMO this was Fergie already preparing for Ronaldo's leaving - looking at what happens in just one transfer window misses the big picture of a manager who planned years in advance

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Fergie also went hard at Bale, Ramsey & Hazard after Ronaldo's departure and they all rejected United to move elsewhere. I think he might have missed a trick by not going after Silva and Aguero when United still had the clout to seal those kinds of deals.

 

[Sandikan]

I have to disagree with your comments on Tevez.
He was awesome team player. A bit like Frimino is for that lot. Goal stats are not that great, but a vital clog in Fergies greatest ever teams 2008.

Fergie didn't see him as vital or we wouldn't have added Berbatov and let him go.

In hindsight that wasn't a good decision. Total change in style

 

[Thiagoal]

I always find this period very odd in our history! The ‘no value in the market’ tosh that SAF was forced to come out with! We were at the peak of our powers and should have been going after the likes of Robben, Aguero and Hazard as they’d have kept us at the top table in Europe!

How Sir Alex managed to continue winning titles with the likes of Young and Valencia really is one of the greatest achievements of all time!

Then SAF retires and we splurge out hundreds of millions on players that were either past it or not committed to playing for us! If that money had been given before the great man retired we’d still be fighting for titles now i reckon!

 

[caid]

I think it was the start of our collapse. As much because Scholes just wasn't world class anymore, Hargreaves was permanently injured and Anderson never developed. Fellaini 3 or 4 years later was our first vaguely serious attempt to address that, which is a long damn time. Our defence across the board were aging and their replacements - Jones, Smalling and Evans ultimately weren't good enough. We downgraded our attack as much in replacing Tevez with Owen as replacing Ronaldo with Valencia.
Were 12 years on and its hard to think of a single signing that was an unmitigated success. 30m for one great season from Van Persie? Thats not a great standard

 

[fps]

What on Earth were we thinking here?

To many this is where our decline as a powerhouse truly began. Of course we had the brilliance of SAF to guide us to 2 more titles & a CL final. IIRC Robben, Ribery & Sneijder were all available that summer. Unbelievable negligence by us back when we were the consensus 2nd best team in the world. Did we not realise losing the best player in the world & another top player & not replacing them would see us decline? I was quite young back then, what was the fans view at the time?

100% this was the moment the decline set in. Everything after that was achieved on the backs of the greats at the club and had nothing to do with new players signed.

 

[fps]

I thought that was a mistake at the time and I still do. Berba was a fantastic player but our football got worse from 08-09 season onwards and in his first two season he really wasn't that great. Worth remembering that Tevez was much more of a fan favourite back then, with the crowd chanting 'Fergie sign him up' constantly.

I reckon he was also put out by the Berbatov signing and performances suffered as a result. Berbatov was another Veron, wonderful talent but didn’t quite fit.

 

[adexkola]

I made a thread about this a while ago and gof flamed for it, but I maintain that this is muppet talk. We won several titles after this supposed decline

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Ronaldo was the main man for these wins, but Tevez was very important for our attack too.
Mainly for that first season since once we got Berbatov he had a minor role to play in the league and CL.
For us to win the CL it was mainly our defense and midfield that did well. We only scored 1 goal against Barca and then Ronaldos header in the final.

Although in the league we scored a lot with Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo in attack.

Fair summary, I'm not saying Tevez was crap or anything, and as you say, he worked really well for the team and as part of our system.

Just don't think he was top quality for us, and the OP has him up alongside Ronaldo... Which is way off the mark.

This thread should really be about not replacing Ronaldo properly... Replacing Tevez was hardly a big issue by comparison.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I reckon he was also put out by the Berbatov signing and performances suffered as a result. Berbatov was another Veron, wonderful talent but didn’t quite fit.

Berbatov did pretty well for us though, but his lack of physical qualities didn't really suit hard european games.
He declined pretty fast near the end though.
He was key to our league win in 2011 even though he got dropped for Hernandez/Rooney near the end.

He was a joy to watch on his day. Never forget the hattrick against Liverpool with the overhead kick to top the lot.
5 goals against Blackburn was another great day that season.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I thought that was a mistake at the time and I still do. Berba was a fantastic player but our football got worse from 08-09 season onwards and in his first two season he really wasn't that great. Worth remembering that Tevez was much more of a fan favourite back then, with the crowd chanting 'Fergie sign him up' constantly.

I personally don't think either of them were that great for us. If Saha could have stayed fit I doubt we would have signed either of them.

I think people look at the Tevez of City and Juve when they remember our failure to sign him but he was a good step below that when playing for us.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

This thread is an example of the mentality around United, reminiscing about summer 2009 and linking it to today.

True, this place is fast becoming RAWKish.

On the other hand, there’s a fair argument to be made that we didn’t strengthen both times we won the CL under SAF, and arguably even more so after the two finals against Barca. Of course it’s hard to improve on a winning team but the failure to do so cost us so much more down the road.

 

[noodlehair]

It isn't really accurate to say we replaced Ronaldo and Tevez with Owen and Valencia. Partly because they are different types of players but mainly because we also replaced them with Gabriel Obertan.

 

[Luke1995]

The hope with Owen was that he would get fully fit like in the late 90's and early 2000's and be that player again. As he was aged 29 at the time of the signing, I didn't think it was too crazy of a try, but obviously other than the Wolfsburg Hattrick and the City goal, it didn't work out. Valencia was always a good player but never world class, and although Ferguson couldn't have gotten someone exactly like Ronaldo, he sure as hell could have bought somebody with a bigger name.

 

[tenpoless]

Have no problem with Valencia. He was crucial for the transition after Ronaldo. Different kind of winger but He was a top top RW.

Owen on the other hand. Goodness me, We gave him a Premier League title. This same annoying person that appears on TV when you least expect it.

 

[Red Devil 26]

I always look back at this time as the beginning of our decline too. We were dining at Europe's top table and only bettered by Pep's Barca. Our moves in the transfer market after this point showed we had no desire to stay there. All that no value nonsense reeked of the Glazer's penny pinching. The 2011 team that reached the CL Final still had quality, but due to age and poor investment it wasn't a patch on the sides that had preceded it.

As for Tevez, worked hard and scored some vital goals, but his level of performance never reached the heights of those at City and Juventus. Physically he was much trimmer and agile when he played for those clubs too. Looked and played a bit sluggish for us in comparison.

 

[AR87]

I think the primary issue was not getting in a top class left sided attacker during that time. It forced us to either play Nani on the left where he was rarely as dangerous as he was on the right imo, or go for a more workmanlike performer like Park or, towards the end under SAF, Welbeck.

Young was supposed to help address that need, but he was never good enough. I thought that was an odd purchase when it was made.

We were in for Hazard and I believe we balked at the agent fees that were required. We instead went for Kagawa who was never really comfortable or good on the left, and needed to play as a 10.

That summer we also got blown out of the water for Lucas Moura after having a deal agreed upon, and had a massive bid for Neymar turned down on deadline day.

That on top of Ferguson's weird blind spot for addressing CM were bigger reasons for our initial decline after his retirement. It's rather amusing that now our biggest issue is not having a quality attacker off the right, and our CM is still short on quality and depth.

 

[0le]

We tried to sign Robben, Moura and Hazard but for one reason or another, it did not materialise. It also seemed like we were also in for Sneijder but not sure how close that really got.

 

[fps]

Berbatov did pretty well for us though, but his lack of physical qualities didn't really suit hard european games.
He declined pretty fast near the end though.
He was key to our league win in 2011 even though he got dropped for Hernandez/Rooney near the end.

He was a joy to watch on his day. Never forget the hattrick against Liverpool with the overhead kick to top the lot.
5 goals against Blackburn was another great day that season.

I loved the guy but the smoking may have impacted! Bet he lent Rooney a fag or two too.

 

[MuranoLover]

Have a feeling we will similarly „replace” Pogba

You don't need to replace someone who is always out

 

[Eugenius]

Every year after Ronaldo/Tevez leaving under Fergie we either won the league or were within 1 point of the champions. And we reached another CL final and got robbed by referees against Bayern and Madrid in other seasons (we were comfortable at or better than their level).

And we signed RvP eventually who was a better player than Tevez. Ronaldo we arguably never replaced - beyond the obvious of being an all time great - but we've struggled with the RW since Valencia turned to shite overnight in 2013. And we never quite had that winger with the ability to score and create out of nothing again. Di Maria was meant to be that player.

The real start of the decline was Moyes - it was obvious we needed four players (LB, CMx2, winger). We basically spent all window chasing unrealistic targets then ended up with Fellaini and Mata who basically didn't solve any of those issues. LVG then came in and spent badly too.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

When did we replace Ronaldo and Tevez with just Valencia and Owen?

"Replacing" Ronaldo with these players, no way Fergie thinks one player is enough.

• Valencia, success assist machine
• Nani, success for few seasons, then back to inconsistent yet talented.
• Obertan, failed.
• Bebe, failed.
• Zaha, failed, down to fergie successors.
• Young, uhh success trickery winger with good work ethics.
• Were there more? I think there are few more players.

Replacing Tevez. I don't see in what way Owen is his replacement. Owen is just additional striker we got on the cheap, imo replacing Saha then replaced by Chicha (all three of them were 3rd choice). Berbatov is Tevez first replacement, we got him earlier before his loan ended.

• Berbatov, success in a way but not totally so later seasons we get...
• RVP, to partner with Rooney, Huge success.

Tevez camp said Utd didn't make any offer at all, but SAF camp said they made offer but Tevez camp stalling negotiations and talked with City camp, to get ridiculous high wages for sure as we see later on. I believe more in the latter - no way Fergie didn't rate Tevez and decided to not sign him permanently.

---------
Plus, for those criticising we didn't get Hazard, Robben, etc etc... could it be Saf tried but they just don't want to come, or you know their agents demanded ridiculous agent fees.

Overall, we properly replaced the Tevez (the version at United), but never Ronaldo.

Replacements doesn't have to be players joining in after.

 

[GledTheRed]

Should also be noted that we didn't even properly sign Tevez!

Baulked at the ridiculous 25 million price tag.