Reserves Draft | harms 6-8 Enigma_87

[Enigma_87]

Going for Harms/Annah for now. I'm not entirely sold on Papin/Villa being a good fit together, and also see that very strong right-sided axis of Alves/Zizinho/Ghiggia causing alot of problems.

Villa was/is quite versatile henplay s in different formations as a wide forward/winger/off the main striker(Spain)central forward and he excelled in all. I don't think working alongside a mobile and also pretty versatile striker won't work?

I think we have an advantage in the CB department and our attack is really prolific with also the creative support of Stojkovic which should be enough to win us the game.

 

[harms]

I think we have an advantage in the CB department

That's actually the only area when you have an advantage, in my opinion. Schulz is the stand out defender (probably even final-worthy in this draft), even though I would partner him with Buchwald and not Bratseth if we were to combine our XI's. Buchwald made his name winning the World Cup and containing no other than Maradona in the final. (Jonquet is out of the question here as we need a stopper to partner Schulz, although he himself was included in the Europe XI to play vs England in 1955, for example - a real sign of recognition of his quality at the time)

 

[Enigma_87]

Spoiler

Re: Keizer - he was known to be not a hardworking player - but he actually did what he was supposed to do as a winger, his tactical role defensively - being present on the flank and constrain the opposition's fullback. Plus we have Netto here, who is basically a better version of Gerrie Muhren - who is very comfortable at the left and played everywhere from the left back to the outside left positions - and he was known for his stamina, workrate and defensive contribution.

Are you saying that you can see Villa and Simonsen dropping back and covering Alves and Byrne runs? I, frankly, can't see it

Keizer is the last player out of those 4 I'd expect to put a defensive shift in. Easily the same can be said about Villa in the above free role - he'll press your defenders and also engage your fullback when we're off the ball. Should Simonsen track back? I can't see a reason why he won't do it as often as Giggha.

Our formations aren't pretty much identical at the end I don't think there will be a numerical advantage anywhere it boils down to the individual quality. I think where we have an edge is our front three, especially in terms of goal scoring and our CB pairs which imp is better both individually and as a pair.

 

[Gio]

That's actually the only area when you have an advantage, in my opinion. Schulz is the stand out defender (probably even final-worthy in this draft), even though I would partner him with Buchwald and not Bratseth if we were to combine our XI's. Buchwald made his name winning the World Cup and containing no other than Maradona in the final. (Jonquet is out of the question here as we need a stopper to partner Schulz, although he himself was included in the Europe XI to play vs England in 1955, for example - a real sign of recognition of his quality at the time)

Well yeah. But Maradona had spent most of the tournament playing with an ankle swollen like a balloon - so much so that he couldn't get his boot on - and despite fighting on valiantly, by the time of the final was basically playing on one leg.

 

[harms]

I think where we have an edge is our front three, especially in terms of goal scoring

How so? Papin is probably the most prolific goalscorer out of the lot, but Streltsov scored 18 in 21 for the NT before the imprisonment, and 48 in 89 for Torpedo (and it includes his games as a 16 and 17 year old).

Zizinho (who shouldn't be discounted) scored more goals than Simonsen - and he has 30 goals in 53 games for Brazil, while Simonsen has 20 in 55.

Keizer has 146 goals in 365 games for Ajax (0,4), playing the role that he plays here. Villa, who plays like he played for Barca, scored 33 in 77 (0,4)

And then we have Ghiggia who scored 4 goals in 4 WC games in 1950, including arguably the most important goal in football history - definitely the one for the history books.

All while we have a superior creative force - Zizinho, Keizer, Ghiggia, Netto - while you have Stojkovic and Simonsen's runs (and maybe Schweiny can be included).

 

[harms]

Well yeah. But Maradona had spent most of the tournament playing with an ankle swollen like a balloon - so much so that he couldn't get his boot on - and despite fighting on valiantly, by the time of the final was basically playing on one leg.

Still, does Bratseth have the performances that can equal that? And actually, was it you who picked him in the last draft? Wasn't he a sweeper, like Schulz?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Villa was/is quite versatile henplay s in different formations as a wide forward/winger/off the main striker(Spain)central forward and he excelled in all. I don't think working alongside a mobile and also pretty versatile striker won't work?

I think we have an advantage in the CB department and our attack is really prolific with also the creative support of Stojkovic which should be enough to win us the game.

I'm a Papin fan but I wouldn't consider him versatile, and I remember him as a pure, single-minded goalscorer rather than someone who would be looking to provide for Villa. I felt Villa sacrificed alot of his own qualities as a player to fit into the Barca machine, and his goalscoring rate dropped accordingly, but Messi even at his most goal-hungry was still a better provider than Papin. Coupled with a demanding defensive remit of helping deal with Harms' right wing, I just don't see Villa hitting his top form here.

 

[Gio]

Still, does Bratseth have the performances that can equal that? And actually, was it you who picked him in the last draft? Wasn't he a sweeper, like Schulz?

He could do both. Probably shined brightest as a sweeper or libero, but he was pretty formidable as a conventional centre-half.

 

[Enigma_87]

How so? Papin is probably the most prolific goalscorer out of the lot, but Streltsov scored 18 in 21 for the NT before the imprisonment, and 48 in 89 for Torpedo (and it includes his games as a 16 and 17 year old).

Zizinho (who shouldn't be discounted) scored more goals than Simonsen - and he has 30 goals in 53 games for Brazil, while Simonsen has 20 in 55.

Keizer has 146 goals in 365 games for Ajax (0,4), playing the role that he plays here. Villa, who plays like he played for Barca, scored 33 in 77 (0,4)

And then we have Ghiggia who scored 4 goals in 4 WC games in 1950, including arguably the most important goal in football history - definitely the one for the history books.

All while we have a superior creative force - Zizinho, Keizer, Ghiggia, Netto - while you have Stojkovic and Simonsen's runs (and maybe Schweiny can be included).

Papin is the most prolific of the lot. If we include internationals Papin averaged 40+ goals for four years in a row.

Next is Villa probably with 300 goals in 600 games, although playing for a lesser team in his peak with also very impressive 59 in 97 for Spain.

Zizinho vs Simonsen is interesting especially for national sides as Zizinho played for one of the best national teams in the world in an era when you can score more freely while Simonsen played in Catenaccio era for usually lesser sides, especially historically.

Ghiggia has only 57 goals in over 500 games in his career and is more of a creator, Keizer was better in that but was 1 in 3 type of scorer.

We definitely have the more prolific attacking trio.

As for creativity - Stojkovic(I'll post some excellent compilations of passing, skills and goals shortly), Villa - besides his goals again he was top of the assists chart in 06/07 when he was used more on the wing, Schweini is not to be underestimated, then again Simonsen's trickery and runs and Papin presence in the box.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm a Papin fan but I wouldn't consider him versatile, and I remember him as a pure, single-minded goalscorer rather than someone who would be looking to provide for Villa. I felt Villa sacrificed alot of his own qualities as a player to fit into the Barca machine, and his goalscoring rate dropped accordingly, but Messi even at his most goal-hungry was still a better provider than Papin. Coupled with a demanding defensive remit of helping deal with Harms' right wing, I just don't see Villa hitting his top form here.

We can agree to disagree then on that one mate. Villa hit top form playing as a SS for Spain. I think having a bit more space to work with along with Papin in the box or just outside it with the option to leave space for him is a great stage to make him shine.

As for Papin I think his short passing game tends to be underrated. Apart from shot technique he also had pretty good one when on the ball especially when changing direction.

 

[harms]

I'm bored, so let's try to fire up the discussion:

Let's discuss IFFHS Century elections. Only 3 outfield players from this game made the list (let's not discuss Planicka and Schumacher, even though Planicka was voted 9th keeper of the century and 6th keeper in Europe, with Schumacher being 15th - both were outstanding keepers and there wasn't much between them, imo. I certainly won't label Schumacher as some kind of a weak spot)

Player of the century in Europe - coincidentally, Simonsen and Streltsov are equalled:
46.Zbigniew Boniek (Poland) 24
Kenneth Dalglish (Scotland) 24
Allan Simonsen (Denmark) 24
Eduard Streltsov (Soviet Union) 24

Player of the century in South America:
10.Thomas Soãres "Zizinho"(Brazil) 40

With Pele, Garrincha and Zico being the only Brazilians ahead of him.

The whole Maracanaço incident stopped Zizinho from becoming Pele's equal in the history books - but it didn't make him a worse player than he was. He was the best player in the world for a few years in the late 40's-1950. Not surprising that he won 1950 World Cup Golden Ball - ahead of the top-scorer Ademir and Uruguay's main star Schiaffino. But he is the best player on the pitch - and he plays in his best position, surrounded by players that compliment his game.

 

[harms]

Next is Villa probably with 300 goals in 600 games, although playing for a lesser team in his peak with also very impressive 59 in 97 for Spain.

Villa's record for Valencia or his career record is irrelevant - he isn't playing as a striker here, he plays on the left wing like he did for Barca. That's one of the points that I continue to put up - all my players play in their best positions - yours don't (well, at least Villa don't, Simonsen is fine there).

 

[Enigma_87]

Still, does Bratseth have the performances that can equal that? And actually, was it you who picked him in the last draft? Wasn't he a sweeper, like Schulz?

When Gio first picked him I didn't know much about him. After his presentation, looking at Kicker reports and also what was there as a information about him - he was a pretty complete defender. This was the reason why I went for him compared to other more "conventional" stoppers. He excelled both at stopper and libero positions. He was WC in the stopper position according to Kicker(which I've also put in the profiles) and could excel in both positions really.

 

[harms]

Keizer was better in that but was 1 in 3 type of scorer

1 in 3 type of scorer who averaged 0,4 goals per game during his career? That's better than 1 in 2 in his peak

 

[harms]

He could do both. Probably shined brightest as a sweeper or libero, but he was pretty formidable as a conventional centre-half.

Okay. Suspected so, that's why I didn't bring it up in the write-up, but with this score I have to question every questionable moment

 

[Enigma_87]

Well yeah. But Maradona had spent most of the tournament playing with an ankle swollen like a balloon - so much so that he couldn't get his boot on - and despite fighting on valiantly, by the time of the final was basically playing on one leg.

Aye, Maradona didn't have the best of tournaments, he was completely outshone by Stojkovic(ever since the first game against Germany after that he hit top form) as well. I can't recall Maradona even scoring in that tournament?

They were lucky to go through Yugoslavia when Stojkovic put a masterclass and created at least 5-6 clear cut chances.


unfortunately he missed the pen in the shootout

 

[Gio]

Aye, Maradona didn't have the best of tournaments, he was completely outshone by Stojkovic(ever since the first game against Germany after that he hit top form) as well. I can't recall Maradona even scoring in that tournament?

They were lucky to go through Yugoslavia when Stojkovic put a masterclass and created at least 5-6 clear cut chances.

Agree about the Yugoslavia game, but wouldn't agree so much about Diego. He was still very influential in a pretty tumescent Argentina side. Like Stojkovic, he created a lot of chances across the tournament. And he was repeatedly hacked down whenever he got going. I'd still have Maradona in a team of the tournament for Italia '90 despite his struggles with injury.

 

[Enigma_87]

Villa's record for Valencia or his career record is irrelevant - he isn't playing as a striker here, he plays on the left wing like he did for Barca. That's one of the points that I continue to put up - all my players play in their best positions - yours don't (well, at least Villa don't, Simonsen is fine there).

How so? Villa wasn't out and out striker at Valencia, for one he spent a lot of time on the wing there as well. At Spain he again played off the main man. His peak was at Valencia.

 

[Enigma_87]

1 in 3 type of scorer who averaged 0,4 goals per game during his career? That's better than 1 in 2 in his peak

How so, or I have missed the point?

 

[harms]

How so, or I have missed the point?

0,4 is his career record, in his peak years he averaged slightly more than a goal every other game. Peak ≠ career

He certainly wasn't 1 in 3 player like you said

 

[harms]

How so? Villa wasn't out and out striker at Valencia, for one he spent a lot of time on the wing there as well. At Spain he again played off the main man. His peak was at Valencia.

He was a central striker for Valencia, a very mobile one, but still a central - and he was the focal point of attack. In this game Papin is - and Villa is just a secondary threat - a role akin to his role in Barca, where he scored 33 in 77 (unsurprisingly his record there is significantly worse than in his days as a centre forward at Valenca)

Take 2007/08 Copa del Rey final for example (the biggest game of his time in Valencia) - Mata on the left, Arizmendi on the right, Silva in behind, Villa up top

 

[Enigma_87]

As for work rate it's interesting notion.

If we discard Streltsov and Papin(I'm not sure of Streltsov work rate, but Papin was a great team player), Keizer you surely can't ask to track back or defend as it's the same to ask Berbatov track back and defend(apart from being faster they had the same languish style). Villa has a much better work rate. Either way if Byrne charges forward to create advantage you leave Villa alone with no one to mark him and having in mind how clinical our forwards are it's a recipe for disaster.

Then Simonsen/Ghiggia I can't see advantage there in the work rate department as well. Stoijkovic ran a lot and helped out in midfield I'm not sure Zizinho was the same, I don't think anyone can question Schweini and Cik work rate either. For one and from what I know of Zizinho I think we have an advantage in that area, especially with Keizer being the "luxury" player off the ball.

 

[Enigma_87]

He was a central striker for Valencia, a very mobile one, but still a central - and he was the focal point of attack. In this game Papin is - and Villa is just a secondary threat - a role akin to his role in Barca, where he scored 33 in 77 (unsurprisingly his record there is significantly worse than in his days as a centre forward at Valenca)

Take 2007/08 Copa del Rey final for example (the biggest game of his time in Valencia) - Mata on the left, Arizmendi on the right, Silva in behind, Villa up top

He drifted a lot mate. He also played as a second striker. At Barca he was off his peak, was injured, etc, which brought down his scoring rate, although it was pretty good in his first season. Check his Spain stats, did he lead the line there in his peak?

He was versatile enough to excel in different formations, if you think he's incapable of putting a top performance in a 4-3-3 on the left side I have to strongly disagree.

Besides here he's in a free role to also make runs in the box - what he does best but with his face to the goal, how does that take away from his game?


^^ How many times we've seen Villa do something like this

 

[harms]

Stoijkovic ran a lot and helped out in midfield I'm not sure Zizinho was the same, I don't think anyone can question Schweini and Cik work rate either. For one and from what I know of Zizinho I think we have an advantage in that area, especially with Keizer being the "luxury" player off the ball.

I'm sorry, but in this case it's not "what I know", but "what I want to think about what I don't know" - you can see the arrows in the formations I posted earlier.

"When I was a kid, I tried to imitate two players:... The Dondinho my father and Zizinho When I started my career at Santos, the Zizinho was ending his in São Paulo and ending in style he was champion and considered the best player of the Championship 1957. Zizinho was a complete player. He acted in half in attack, marked well, it was a great header of the ball, dribbled like few others , knew arm. After all, was not afraid of ugly face (google-translate). He played hard when needed." - Pele

Even if we compare their PES stats (I don't know how to prove to you that you're just ignorant here), he has a higher teamwork, mentality, aggression and stamina than Stojkovic - and the margin is quite big.

Keizer, while never being a hardworking player, kept the formation off the ball - which is all that is required from him, really - with Netto and Byrne covering.

Ghiggia was a winger who tracked back - Simonsen was a forward with a good workrate, there is a difference. Villa never tracked the opposition fullback on to his own half, come on! And he is against Alves here - who is the best attacking fullback of the last decade or two and is in the same bracket as R. Carlos, Facchetti and Brehme if we're comparing their attacking contribution

 

[harms]

Let's agree to disagree on Villa, I don't think that we'll come to a consensus here. Most of the voters are familiar with him, so they can decide for themselves @Enigma_87

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm sorry, but in this case it's not "what I know", but "what I want to think about what I don't know" - you can see the arrows in the formations I posted earlier.

"When I was a kid, I tried to imitate two players:... The Dondinho my father and Zizinho When I started my career at Santos, the Zizinho was ending his in São Paulo and ending in style he was champion and considered the best player of the Championship 1957. Zizinho was a complete player. He acted in half in attack, marked well, it was a great header of the ball, dribbled like few others , knew arm. After all, was not afraid of ugly face (google-translate). He played hard when needed." - Pele

Even if we compare their PES stats (I don't know how to prove to you that you're just ignorant here), he has a higher teamwork, mentality, aggression and stamina than Stojkovic - and the margin is quite big.

Keizer, while never being a hardworking player, kept the formation off the ball - which is all that is required from him, really - with Netto and Byrne covering.

Ghiggia was a winger who tracked back - Simonsen was a forward with a good workrate, there is a difference. Villa never tracked the opposition fullback on to his own half, come on! And he is against Alves here - who is the best attacking fullback of the last decade or two and is in the same bracket as R. Carlos, Facchetti and Brehme if we're comparing their attacking contribution

If the margin is big, then Zizinho has to be some kind of defensive monster, because Stojkovic had pretty good defensive game. Case in point:


Again hadn't made a direct comparison and you are more aware of Zizinho's style

 

[Enigma_87]

Let's agree to disagree on Villa, I don't think that we'll come to a consensus here. Most of the voters are familiar with him, so they can decide for themselves @Enigma_87

I agree. I'm sure most know what type of player Villa is and can make a judgement of their own

 

[harms]

If the margin is big, then Zizinho has to be some kind of defensive monster

Well, he was regarded as one of the most complete players of his generation and his workrate and defensive game was probably the thing that separated him from the other attackers. Not sure if the gap between them in PES stats should be that big (but that's why we don't trust PES), as Stojkovic obviously wasn't a passenger defensively

 

[Enigma_87]

Well, he was regarded as one of the most complete players of his generation and his workrate and defensive game was probably the thing that separated him from the other attackers. Not sure if the gap between them in PES stats should be that big (but that's why we don't trust PES), as Stojkovic obviously wasn't a passenger defensively

Well they played in a lot different era, with the pace being different and so on. Granted Zizinho wasn't a passenger as well, but the football generally in the 50's was more attacking especially when it comes to Brazil sides. For an attacking midfield to show defensive game during that era will surely make a bigger impression. Stojkovic was far from passenger he had a pretty good defensive game and covered a lot of ground. He was very versatile and complete player.

Even if you put him in all time squad he won't look out of sorts. Sure his career didn't pan out in the best possible way - mainly due to injuries, but at his peak he was something special.

In fact he did it against the very best:


^^ against Rijkaard and Baresi - the two outstanding defensive players in the 80's. The one who he left for dead in that goal was Baresi.

When off the ball he was always running, covering, intercepting. Truly special player.

I don't think you can question our work rate really especially in midfield. Schweini and Cik are one of the best in that department in the pool. From Papin to the keeper we have only team players with high work rate(including Papin).

As for PES it's hard to follow the exact criteria there. I don't play it either. From what I've saw there in terms of rating they always compare a player to another player and give him higher or lower value. However there's a plethora of other players between them which makes this pretty hard. Add to that some odd criteria if you put this he'll do that and so forth so he should have that, etc...

It's good for statistics tho, they have some interesting points.

Out of curiosity, just checked the PES thread about him:

http://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2660

13 replies or so with a video that is for a different player 30 years later

The lad is some right tool if he thought it was the same player, in the 50's there wasn't color TV, that surely has to be a giveaway

 

[harms]

I don't think you can question our work rate really especially in midfield. Schweini and Cik are one of the best in that department in the pool. From Papin to the keeper we have only team players with high work rate(including Papin).

I didn't question your midfield's workrate - in fact, you did it with mine. I only questioned your forward's contribution to the defensive phase of the game, which will be minimal. Never remembered Papin as a hardworking (in the defensive phase) player, but maybe it's just a flawed memory

 

[Enigma_87]

I didn't question your midfield's workrate - in fact, you did it with mine. I only questioned your forward's contribution to the defensive phase of the game, which will be minimal. Never remembered Papin as a hardworking (in the defensive phase) player, but maybe it's just a flawed memory

Well he was decent in that department, surely no Tevez, but not Berba or Romario either.

All in all I think it's pretty much complimentary here and there in both formations, which again are quite alike

 

[Ecstatic]

I didn't question your midfield's workrate - in fact, you did it with mine. I only questioned your forward's contribution to the defensive phase of the game, which will be minimal. Never remembered Papin as a hardworking (in the defensive phase) player, but maybe it's just a flawed memory

Sure, at his prime in Marseille where he was the super star, all the team works for him. Here, he is the only one CF so he will have limited defensive tasks.

It's Villa who will have to work hard defensively given the offensive contribution of Dany Alvès.

Papin & Villa can do the job but Villa will be certainly unhappy in the long run.

 

[Enigma_87]

Sure, at his prime in Marseille where he was the super star, all the team works for him. Here, he is the only one CF so he will have limited defensive tasks.

It's Villa who will have to work hard defensively given the offensive contribution of Dany Alvès.

Papin & Villa can do the job but Villa will be certainly unhappy in the long run.

Alves will have to look for Villa as well, naturally Villa will track back when we don't have the ball, but given the free attacking role he has in this game, receiving the ball in less crowded area with his face to the goal and opportunity to run into channels I don't think is actually bad for him.

His creativity with Simonsen creativity on either side of Papin is pretty welcomed especially when both have such a clinical forward alongside them.

I'll put up again the 06/07 example of Villa at Valencia where he had a more creative role and was topped La Liga assists chart.

The reason why I picked Villa(yet again) is his versatility and also creativity. Could of easily picked another more conventional winger, but the combination of his clinical scoring abilities, creativity and vision is much better, especially when he has specifically Dietz on the left when we're in possession to compliment him.

 

[Gio]

It's good to see Stojkovic get some love. It's normally Savicevic who gets all the attention. Regarding Zizinho and his overall contribution, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons I picked him once before was because he wasn't simply a passenger off the ball and offered a fair bit going back the way in addition to his many talents going forward.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Regarding Zizinho and his overall contribution, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons I picked him once before was because he wasn't simply a passenger off the ball and offered a fair bit going back the way in addition to his many talents going forward.

Wasn't too familiar with Zizinho before this draft, obviously heard about him and knew more or less how he played and that he was an all time great. But I wasn't familiar with the fact that he had a good defensive game as well. For a modern formation I think something like this would be a natural role for him, quite close to the inside right role he played for club and country.

An interesting thing is that Zizinho played together with Leonidas for a few years and was deemed "the next Leonidas" more or less for Flamengo.

 

[harms]

Morning bump!
I still hope that this game will get more votes in the end, especially from the regulars/managers

 

[harms]

Videos galore!

Another one that is going slightly under the radar so far - Piet Keizer. One of the best players that Netherlands and Ajax ever had
Sadly, there are no complete compilations of him, but there are still a few that gives you the general idea of his style of play

A short compilation and EC final highlights
And one of my favorite goals by him, amazing turn before the goal for the first one:

 

[harms]

And Igor Netto - one of the greatest Eastern European players of all time.
He was known for his engine and versatility - he was silky in possession, he almost never lost the ball (he was a perfectionist and always provided the passing option for his teammates, the Spartak Moscow play at the time was very much alike Pep's Barca in terms of style), was known for his dribbling ability and defensive contribution. Nikita Simonyan, the great USSR and Spartak forward, who played with and later coached Igor Netto, said that it was almost impossible to dribble past Netto, his reading of the game and defensive response was amazing.

He captained USSR team to the Olympic gold in 1956 and Euro win in 1960 - which made him the first player to ever lift up the Euro Championship Cup above his head!

Sadly there are not much compilations about him, mostly full games and documentaries - and I was too busy making gifs to introduce Streltsov to make something regarding Netto too. I'll make some if we are to go through

Some dribbling, defence and goals from him

 

[Ecstatic]

My main concern is the complementarity Papin-Villa.

Papin is a great striker made to play in a 4-3-3 system as he did with Marseille.

Sorry if I am wrong but I have always considered him as a selfish advanced striker obsessed by the goal.

So, Villa won't have a lot of opportunities to shine offensively.

With Barcelona he used to play with on the wing but with a Messi able to move who creates opportunities for others.

Curious to hear your views about this point.

 

[Enigma_87]

My main concern is the complementarity Papin-Villa.

Papin is a great striker made to play in a 4-3-3 system as he did with Marseille.

Sorry if I am wrong but I have always considered him as a selfish advanced striker obsessed by the goal.

So, Villa won't have a lot of opportunities to shine offensively.

With Barcelona he used to play with on the wing but with a Messi able to move who creates opportunities for others.

Curious to hear your views about this point.

I think it was already touched as a subject but let me put it in again.

Villa is at his best running into the box or just outside the box and running into space. In this set up we have him in a free role and drifting wide where he'll receive the ball more often, facing the goal. He is one of the most creative forwards on his own. Add to that his versatility and I don't see any problem of him playing in 4-3-3 as a wide forward, exactly the opposite, especially when he already played in a system like that.

He played as a winger as well and as a second striker both at club level and national level and given his record you can easily see that it won't hurt him one bit.

As you mentioned Papin also played in the same system and having Stojkovic, Villa, Simonsen and even Bastian he has plenty of creative options to make him shine.

I don't think we lack creativity or the ability to create opportunities one bit.

If you know Villa's game, he wasn't a conventional center forward who you put in between the 2 defenders and give him service.

Here's a nice compilation of him at Valencia:


You can see him drifting wide, combining with fellow attackers especially his one touch game. Having Papin next to him who also had an underrated short passing game provides him just exactly that - another option to combine but also a player who will make space for him and his runs into the box.