Reserves Draft | harms 6-8 Enigma_87
- Thread starter Moby
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Already touched this subject. Villa is at his best when, starting centrally, he has freedom to move everywhere - and here he has a completely opposite role - he starts on the flank, he has to cover Dani Alves overlapping runs (!!) and yet he "has the freedom" to cut inside?
While playing with Papin, who is going to shoot again and again, from every position, like he did (and did very well tbf).
So, Villa is not at his best position and he is partnered with a very egoistical striker, like you said.
Cheers
Like you said we can agree to disagree on that subject, but also Papin was a team player and again his short passing game seems to be underrated around here.
Can you show us some examples?
Going by memory and from actual games. Most of youtube compilations are of him scoring, which is normal as he had ridiculous strike rate.
^^ here's another where again the focus is on scoring but you can see there with Waddle and Pele, how he moved to free space and also combined with them.
He formed a pretty good partnership with Pele and Waddle.
He didn't have a spectacular passing game or long passes(nor have I implied) if that is what you ask, but he had very good technique and his short passing game was pretty good especially into bringing others into the play. From what I sense he's described as a somehow limited striker which irks me a bit especially since he was for a good while one of the best strikers in the world.
The two teams possess two very strong defensive pairings.
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The current voting results is harsh for @harms
My understanding is that he possesses more "old-school/unknown players" so that some of his players are unconsciously underrated by the voters.
His strategy is consistent
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@Enigma_87
Consistent strategy even if I think we can't get the most out of David Villa in this position. Sure, he can do the job.
For example, according to me, Luis Suarez is the best Centre-Forward of the 2010, the #1.
But, if he plays on the left instead of Neymar or on the right instead of Messi: he won't have the same stats not the same impact.
And I wouldn't consider him as the #1 wing-forward of the 2010s. Let's close this debate!!
Otherwise, I am OK with your strategy and happy to discover new players: that is why I haven't voted as of now
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The current voting results is harsh for @harms
My understanding is that he possesses more "old-school/unknown players" so that some of his players are unconsciously underrated by the voters.
His strategy is consistent
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@Enigma_87
Consistent strategy even if I think we can't get the most out of David Villa in this position. Sure, he can do the job.
For example, according to me, Luis Suarez is the best Centre-Forward of the 2010, the #1.
But, if he plays on the left instead of Neymar or on the right instead of Messi: he won't have the same stats not the same impact.
And I wouldn't consider him as the #1 wing-forward of the 2010s. Let's close this debate!!
Otherwise, I am OK with your strategy and happy to discover new players: that is why I haven't voted as of now
Suarez and Villa are very different type of players mate. I wouldn't put Suarez on the wing. The reason why I chose Villa at the first place is his versatility and also his passing/vision/technique/ability to run into channels and past defenders with the added bonus if clinical finishing at his peak.
At Barcelona he was already past his peak and then plagued by injuries wasn't the same player. It's unfair to judge his numbers "because he played as a wide forward".
I think in my team there is a lot of new faces - Cajkovski, Dietz, even Schulz has not featured a lot in these drafts, also Papin was chosen for few but didn't get much of a spotlight, Stojkovic I've drafted him alone I think only once, Simonsen also hasn't featured a lot despite like Papin - a Ballon D'or winner, etc.
Then again, Villa shone with Torres at Euro 2008 in a similar partnership to what is presented here. Him covering Alves is a big stretch, unrealistic really, but I think Villa's attacking role is fine. Much depends on Dietz's ability to stretch the play and get down the left flank.
Desperate bump.
Leonidas - World Cup Golden Ball and Golden Boot winner; He scored more than 500 goals, and is just shy from 1 in 1 career goalscoring record
He comes to his beloved position of the inside-right, basically doubling our goalscoring threat - he was hardworking, agile, possessed masterful dribbling and was ridiculously clinical goalscorer. The right flank now is given to Dani Alves, who is used to holding the flank basically by his own - and sometimes Zizinho will move out wide to create width.
@Aldo if you're here, please update the formation
It becomes a lopsided 4-4-2, with Zizinho is "David Silva" role - a playmaking attacking midfielder starting nominally on the flank and going centrally from there. Streltsov and Leonidas make an excellent combination - physically strong, tall and great at passing (as you can see in his write-up) Streltsov and fast, hardworking and agile Leonidas
Leonidas - World Cup Golden Ball and Golden Boot winner; He scored more than 500 goals, and is just shy from 1 in 1 career goalscoring record
He comes to his beloved position of the inside-right, basically doubling our goalscoring threat - he was hardworking, agile, possessed masterful dribbling and was ridiculously clinical goalscorer. The right flank now is given to Dani Alves, who is used to holding the flank basically by his own - and sometimes Zizinho will move out wide to create width.
@Aldo if you're here, please update the formation
It becomes a lopsided 4-4-2, with Zizinho is "David Silva" role - a playmaking attacking midfielder starting nominally on the flank and going centrally from there. Streltsov and Leonidas make an excellent combination - physically strong, tall and great at passing (as you can see in his write-up) Streltsov and fast, hardworking and agile Leonidas
Leonidas Da Silva
The second son of Samba, after a certain still unpicked player, the Black Diamond/The Rubber man was voted as the 8th best Brazilian player of the 20th century by IFFHS - a point ahead of both Nilton Santos and Ronaldo. An odd inclusion some would say but when the Brazilans themselves choose their legends he is common sense. Both Folha de São Paolo and Placar Magazine[1997] included him in their first eleven when they collected an all-time Brazil team. His phenomenal goalscoring of a goal per game over a 13 year period, both for the National team and for his different club sides highlight his efficiency.
He won 8 times the stated championship was named Best player in the 1938 , 1940 , 1943 , 1945 , 1946 , 1948 and the 1949 Championships. His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams, where the legends Sarosi and Meazza clashed together.
His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams.
In Placar's "100 Craques do Século", rating the 100 greatest players in the history, Leonidas is ranked as a mighty respectable number 28.
When the Guerin Sportivo[Italy] published their list "I 50 Grandi del Secolo by Adalberto Bortolotti" Leonidas was placed even further up at place 26.
The words of Diego Lucero, an eye-witness, give portrait of Da Silvas character and breakthrough performance that is more precise than any. "As a player he was simply phenomenal. A classy yet effective dribbler, he cut through the enemy defense like lightning, and he shot at the enemy goal with the precision and power of a born goal-scorer.
The things Leonidas did in that first half of that historic game against Poland on July 5 in Strasbourg can be ranked among the most beautiful and brilliant plays in soccer history - artistic, rhythmic plays that carry the secret of soccer magic, and a grace that make the ball speak. Leonidas was a flash of joy and glory that easily danced through the entrenched Polish defense.
In that first half he made three goals, but then a deluge of rain set in, and the Polish managed to transform Brazils lead to a 4-3 lead into their favor. Then, Leonidas, living up to his name became a lion in battle, wreaking havoc in the mud on the players from the sunless land. At one point his foot got stuck in the mud. "The black Diamond" took his foot out of the shoe and kicked the ball with all his might to tie the game. In the end, Brazil won 6-5."
"Leonidas was the more phenomenal for being so small a center forward, though he began as an inside right. Of him, it was said by Jerry Wienstein, "He was as fast as a greyhound, as agile as a cat, and seemed not to be made of flesh and bones at all, but entirely of rubber. He was tireless in pursuit of the ball, fearless, and constantly on the move. He never conceded defeat. He shot from any angle and any position, and compensated for his small height with exceptionally supple, unbelievable contortions, and impossible acrobatics."
Google even made a doodle dedicated to him
The second son of Samba, after a certain still unpicked player, the Black Diamond/The Rubber man was voted as the 8th best Brazilian player of the 20th century by IFFHS - a point ahead of both Nilton Santos and Ronaldo. An odd inclusion some would say but when the Brazilans themselves choose their legends he is common sense. Both Folha de São Paolo and Placar Magazine[1997] included him in their first eleven when they collected an all-time Brazil team. His phenomenal goalscoring of a goal per game over a 13 year period, both for the National team and for his different club sides highlight his efficiency.
He won 8 times the stated championship was named Best player in the 1938 , 1940 , 1943 , 1945 , 1946 , 1948 and the 1949 Championships. His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams, where the legends Sarosi and Meazza clashed together.
His most memorable moments came at the 1938 World Cup where Leonidas showed phenomenal class being the top scorer with 7 goals and until 2010 the only MVP not being in one of the finalist teams.
In Placar's "100 Craques do Século", rating the 100 greatest players in the history, Leonidas is ranked as a mighty respectable number 28.
When the Guerin Sportivo[Italy] published their list "I 50 Grandi del Secolo by Adalberto Bortolotti" Leonidas was placed even further up at place 26.
The words of Diego Lucero, an eye-witness, give portrait of Da Silvas character and breakthrough performance that is more precise than any. "As a player he was simply phenomenal. A classy yet effective dribbler, he cut through the enemy defense like lightning, and he shot at the enemy goal with the precision and power of a born goal-scorer.
The things Leonidas did in that first half of that historic game against Poland on July 5 in Strasbourg can be ranked among the most beautiful and brilliant plays in soccer history - artistic, rhythmic plays that carry the secret of soccer magic, and a grace that make the ball speak. Leonidas was a flash of joy and glory that easily danced through the entrenched Polish defense.
In that first half he made three goals, but then a deluge of rain set in, and the Polish managed to transform Brazils lead to a 4-3 lead into their favor. Then, Leonidas, living up to his name became a lion in battle, wreaking havoc in the mud on the players from the sunless land. At one point his foot got stuck in the mud. "The black Diamond" took his foot out of the shoe and kicked the ball with all his might to tie the game. In the end, Brazil won 6-5."
"Leonidas was the more phenomenal for being so small a center forward, though he began as an inside right. Of him, it was said by Jerry Wienstein, "He was as fast as a greyhound, as agile as a cat, and seemed not to be made of flesh and bones at all, but entirely of rubber. He was tireless in pursuit of the ball, fearless, and constantly on the move. He never conceded defeat. He shot from any angle and any position, and compensated for his small height with exceptionally supple, unbelievable contortions, and impossible acrobatics."
Google even made a doodle dedicated to him
nice game @harms @Annahnomoss I really think you had a great balanced team and really hadn't questioned anything regarding the balance of it during the game I think you set up pretty well.
It's a pity the game didn't generate much outsider interest as there were a lot of players that didn't feature in most of the drafts.
It's a pity the game didn't generate much outsider interest as there were a lot of players that didn't feature in most of the drafts.
Yeah, it's really a shame. I don't mind losing, it happens, but it's frustrating to argue when nobody is interested - we both have 30+ posts in the thread, then goes Gio with 7, Downcast with 5 and Aldo with 3, 2 of which are our write-ups
Tbh, I looked at this many time, but could not find much to post about. Very similar teams with minor stuff to separate them. Comes down to personal preference in players, I suppose.
I loved the Netto/Keizer link specifically and Zizinho/Ghiggia was close behind. Rate Clodoaldo too. So voted for harms/annah. Would have loved to hear a bit more on Ghiggia. Not much known except for Maracanazo.
I loved the Netto/Keizer link specifically and Zizinho/Ghiggia was close behind. Rate Clodoaldo too. So voted for harms/annah. Would have loved to hear a bit more on Ghiggia. Not much known except for Maracanazo.
You're better off searching for anto's posts on him here - though he doesn't get into details about him either. Hopefully he will feature in the SA draft and, if anto is back at this point, maybe we'll here more about him?
He was ridiculously gifted on the ball - you can see it in the video of his Roma days that we posted earlier. Not a prolific goalscorer, yet he scored his goals with precise and confidence. But it was the way that he skinned fullbacks that really sold me on him.
I followed the thread throughout but after criticising Papin/Villa in a few posts it didn't seem fair to keep banging on about with so few other people weighing in, and I just didnt have much else to comment on in either team. I felt bad for you though in the initial stages when you were losing votes without any hint of feedback. Such a frustrating situation.
Yeah, but at least you said something. Even the simple "I voted for Enigma because he had better players" from a few voters would've sufficed
I think it's generally liking more some of the personal of either team. We did indeed put pretty close in terms of tactics and formation teams. I think this is the main reason for less comments. Usually when there are 2 formations that are different from each other there's more to go for in terms of numerical advantage in certain areas.
If I was neutral at least that would be my thinking I don't think both our teams had flaws that are easy to point out.
Congats Enigma great win! Will be interesting to see how you upgrade, too bad that the match thread was so dead there were a lot of interesting players.
Thanks mate! To be fair I have no idea at the moment how and what to upgrade. Will maybe reshuffle the attack a bit or bring in someone else,not sure really.
I think Netto, Jonquet especially from your side deserved some attention as well, as especially the former is pretty versatile and interesting player capable of playing from left back to left midfielder, box to box, centrally etc.