Reserves Draft | harms 6-8 Enigma_87

Who will win based on all the players at their peaks?


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Moby

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Team harms & Annahnomoss Tactics

Team Instructions:

Formation: 4-3-3
Playing Style: direct proactive style
Defensive Line: normal
Preferred Zone of Action: balanced, with slight preference to the flanks

Player Roles
František Plánička
- Goalkeeper - Controlling the box
Roger Byrne - Left back - Balanced, can drop back to the left centre back role
Robert Jonquet - Centre back - Ball-playing defender, organizer
Guido Buchwald - Centre back - Stopper, enforcer
Dani Alves - Right back - Attacking
Igor Netto - Left central midfielder - Box-to-box
Clodoaldo - Holding midfielder - Anchor man
Zizinho - Right central midfielder - Attacking playmaker, free role
Piet Keizer - Left wing - Wing-forward/winger (his usual role in Ajax's 4-3-3)
Eduard Streltsov - Centre forward - Focal point of our attack
Alcides Ghiggia - Right wing - Winger

Leonidas - The bench - Solskjaer impersonator

PLAYER PROFILES

Tactics:

We are going to play 4-3-3, one of the most balanced formations that provide you with positive wing game and, at the same time, guarantees you stability and flair in the middle. We’ll choose proactive style of play, forcing the opponent to adjust to our direct style. Out of all 10 of our outfield players only Keizer can be labeled as not a hardworking player, and he is well covered here. Every successful team tries to combine flair with graft and we feel that we achieved it with our set of players.

Well-crafted 4-3-3 always requires 2 key elements - the right type of wing-forwards and the delicate balance in midfield - and without them it loses all the appeal.

Our midfield three is certainly the most unique in the draft; we have a dedicated defensive midfielder in Clodoaldo, a true box-to-box in Netto and an attacking playmaker in Zizinho.

But what’s so unique about them, you may ask? Well, both Netto and Zizinho are hybrid players, who are equally capable of going to the flank and to stay centrally.

Zizinho played as an inside right for Brazil and Flamengo, but, unlike Puskas, Meazza and other famous insides he had his own view on how this position should be interpreted. First and foremost, he was a midfielder, starting on the right side from the pitch and controlling the zone between right-winger, center forward and a defensive midfielder - you can see that he plays the same role for us. Zizinho was a complete player - he had dribbling, passing, vision, a brilliant shot from both legs, he even worked hard off the ball, which is not something you usually see from the players like him.

Netto, before settling as a number 6, played everywhere on the left flank - from left back to an outside left (winger) position. Naturally left-footed player, he preferred that side, even though he felt comfortable everywhere. This multitasking from the young age made him an ideal box-to-box player, capable of running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes, chasing down the opponents and setting up the attacks. What separated him from the others were his dribbling and short passing ability - not usually a stand out qualities for a primarily physical box-to-box position. He almost never lost the ball - he was a perfectionist, critical to himself and to others, which made him such a legendary player and the captain.

Clodoaldo is another player with unmatched set of abilities here. He is considered to be one of the all-time great South American defensive midfielders - most notably for his key role in the victorious Brazil team of 1970. That team was known as «the team of five number tens», leaving Clodoaldo as the lone defensive player in midfield. This controversial, on paper, set-up resulted in an unprecedented success - and Clodoaldo was the foundation of it. But it’s wrong to imagine him as a simply glorified water-carrier, he was, actually, one of the most surprising things about that team, especially for neutral viewers - can you imagine an ordinary defensive midfielder dribbling around 4 players in the World Cup final before making a pass to set-up a goal? You probably can’t if you haven’t seen it already. Yet Clodoaldo did it.

Overall it’s hard to imagine a midfield more comfortable on the ball and, as a result, immune to pressing. Having three central midfielders, all of whom were praised for their dribbling skill, guarantees us not only an entertaining show, it also serves a tactical purpose - all of them are more than capable of loosing their marker to create pockets of space both centrally and on the flanks. And free space is the last thing you’d want when facing my team.

Our wing-forwards are also ideally suited for this game, with their famous trickery, pace, creativity and goalscoring prowess.

One of the personifications of the Dutch and Ajax football, Keizer played as a left forward or midfielder in 4-3-3 all his life. What’s really amazing is that, despite it not being his main job, he maintained roughly 1 in 2 goal per game ratio during the course of his career. The unique mix of skills, tactical intelligence and the sheer unpredictability will create a lot of problems for Enigma’s right flank.

You can argue that Ghiggia was not a prolific goalscorer over the course of his career and you would be right, yet he proved on the biggest stage possible that when it matters he is capable of taking fate into his own hands. He played 4 games in 1950 World Cup and scored in all of them (something that was matched only by Jairzinho 2 decades later), including one of the most famous and important goals of all-time - a winning goal in the final which remains the defining moment of this era. But the argument still remains - and this is why we have a more attacking Zizinho next to him; while Ghiggia and Alves will wreak havoc on their wing Zizinho will find an opportunity to take a shot (as he is another 1 goal in 2 games player)

Not much is left to say - mainly our defence and our striker haven’t gotten any attention yet.

Our defensive set-up is pretty simple. It’s a classic ball-playing/stopper combo in the middle, with Jonquet and Buchwald complimenting each other perfectly. And slightly lopsided fullbacks - with Alves, obviously, being a more adventurous one and Byrne dropping to the LCB position if needed.

We’ll discuss Streltsov’s playing style and career in more detail in the match thread, so I’ll be quick. It’s the younger version of him, a real force of nature, fast, capable of harassing defenders and showing physical and mental domination on the pitch. And yet, while he’ll be the focal point of our attacks, we’ll also use the part of him that’s usually gets overlooked - his incredible vision, passing and link-up play. We have enough secondary threats for him not to feel overburdened and to play his natural game.
 

Moby

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Team Enigma_87 Tactics

Formation : 4-3-3
Playing Style : Direct
Defensive Line : Normal
Preferred Zone of Action : Balanced, fluid front 3, interchanging. Strong and solid midfield to win us the ball back quickly.

Player Profiles:
Zlatko Cajkovski - separate profile
Dragan Stojkovic - separate profile
Rest of the team(Schumacher, Dietz, Bessonov, Bratseth, Schulz)
Rest of the team(Schweini, Simonsen, Papin, Villa)

Player Instructions
Volodymyr Bessonov
- Right Back
Willi Schulz - Centre Back - Sweeper
Rune Bratseth - Centre Back - Stopper
Bernard Dietz - Left Back
Zlatko Cajkovski - Central Midfielder - Holding Midfielder/Pivot
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Central Midfielder - Box-to-Box Midfielder
Dragan Stojkovic - Attacking Midfielder - Playmaker
Allan Simonsen - Right Winger - Attacking Winger
David Villa - Left Forward - Goalscoring Wing-Forward
Jean-Pierre Papin - Central Forward - All Round Forward

Tactics

On goal we have Toni Harald Schumacher - one of Germany's best keepers. Rated by Kicker 4.5 world class seasons at his peak he is one of the best keepers of all time, with top notch positioning, reflexes and reading of the game. On the left flank we have Bernard Dietz who is excellent defender and great going forward with more than 70 goals in 400 games. He's pretty versatile, true leader on the pitch who also played as a CB which goes to show his defensive prowess as well as his excellent goalscoring record.

On the right we have Bessonov - lightning quick full-back with a powerful shot, great tactical sense and of course solid at the back. In the center we have a perfect sweeper/stopper combination with two solid and really excellent defenders in Schulz and Bratseth. Schulz was in the heart of German defence for 11 years winning 66 caps. Commanding defender with excellent tackling ability and reading of the game, Schulz was a hard as iron right half and later sweeper who was known as the ‘the master of the sliding tackle’.He's partnered up with Bratseth - one of Bundesleague's best defenders - all round defender capable of playing as a stopper or libero he was an excellent man marker, great leap and also strong into tackle, with added ability on the ball.

In midfield we have possibly the greatest ever Yugoslav player - Zlatko Cajkovski (Cik), playing as in a holding role.Very intelligent player, with very good technique and tremendous condition, stamina and mentality. Cik always played with great desire to win and even when his team was losing, he was able to motivate them, and turn lost game into victories. Played on the same level from first to the last minute of the game (he was really tireless).

He's paired with Bastian Schweinsteiger in box to box role. Both Cajkovski and Schweinsteiger provide excellent cover for the defence and what he brings to that rock solid partnership is also his passing game. Complimenting that midfield is our midfield magician - Dragan Stojkovic. Piksi is one of the best #10's in the game and his creative game is usually second to none. He will be our main playmaker and will link the midfield with our attacking trio.

Our forward line consist of three very prolific goalscorers who among them have close to 900 goals in their respective careers(and two Ballon D'or winners on top of that). Simonsen will be on the right - a wide forward/winger role where he can exploit the space with his trickery, pace and also finish off moves by himself. On the left we will have David Villa, who will also drift wide, look for spaces but also cut in and exploit the free spaces left by the movement of Papin and Simonsen. Villa will be on a free creative role mainly on the left side. In the center we have Papin as our complete forward - at his peak he was one of the best forwards in the world and he can pretty much score from everywhere. Pace, volley, header, movement he had it all.

Key points:
- heavy attack - we do have 3 prolific goalscorers who can interchange and compliment each other.
- solid central core - Schweini and Cajkovski in the middle offer a lot of protection and with Schulz and Bratseth in the core of the defence we have a pretty solid backline.
- wide danger - Simonsen is great at creating chances from the right and he'll be complimented by Bessonov, while on the other side we have Dietz who is one of the best goalscoring full backs in history complimented with Villa in a free role.
 

harms

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As promised, the in-depth write-up for Streltsov - out key player. Please wait until all the gifs are loaded. There are quite a few of them

Eduard Streltsov - the footage


First and foremost, Streltsov was a brilliant striker. He showed a vast array of skills since his debut as a 16 years old, scoring two hat-trick in his first two games for USSR as a 17-year old; becoming the league top-scorer as an 18-year old; leading his country to the Olympic goals as a 19-year old. He scored goals for fun, netting 48 goals in his first 89 appearances for Torpedo Moscow (and that includes all his appearances since he was sixteen); scoring 18 goals in just 21 appearances for the national team before the imprisonment.

So, without further ado, I'll show you some of his goals, from both parts of his career - not much footage of him is available, sadly :(









I was also amazed when, after researching Streltsov, I stumbled upon the video consisting 1000 United goals at Old Trafford. And there it was - the subconscious familiarity that I felt towards Streltsov finally made sense. The sheer presence of Cantona, his positive arrogance, his understanding of the game and the need to aesthetically please the fans - Streltsov was exactly the same.





To be continued...
 
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harms

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There was a saying between fans that Streltsov is thinking with his heels - he loved his backheel passes and used to do them on a regular basis

Against La Grande Inter


Backheel nutmeg assist in the USSR Cup final - sadly the replay starts a little too late















Eduard Streltsov said:
There are eleven players in the team and we are all communicating by passes. Passing connects us, it is the language that we are speaking. You can fool your opponent with a beautiful dribble; you can make a showy shot or an impressive jump. You can even run beautifully. You can and you should. But the most important thing in football is passing. Pass should be gentle, accurate, timely. It should be smart, unexpected, cunning
Very smart one-touch assist


Another subtle one-two with the wingforward

















To be continued...
 
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harms

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Inter vs Torpedo match report said:
Maybe it would've been more productive to alternate ways and methods of the attacking play, like Streltsov did, switching between dribbling runs with the ball, a battering ram tactic or 1-2's with his partners. But there were no other Streltsov on the pitch


















 

harms

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Thanks @Aldo for setting it up and enjoy your flight.

Good luck @harms @Annahnomoss should be a quality game.
Good luck to you too!


To the game:
Well, you lined up as expected - and I'll begin with the main question. I believe that your team lacks width, especially on the left - as far as I remember, Ditz wasn't very attacking (and it can be argued that his peak was as a CB) and Villa won't provide much width - same as Simonsen on the right. While our flanks are simply devastating - top-class wingers/wing-forwards (capable of hugging the line if needed), plus two brilliant CB's, plus central midfielders who are used to go to their respective flanks. We have an option of building a compact defence (moving Byrne to the LCB role) and overcrowding the middle, while my players will stretch your defence

In Keizer - Netto we're recreating a hugely successful partnership of Keizer and Gerrie Muhren - Netto possesses similar qualities to the latter.

And you can read more on the Zizinho's (arguably the best player on the pitch) role here - it's on Portuguese, but google-translate always helps.
 

Enigma_87

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Good luck to you too!


To the game:
Well, you lined up as expected - and I'll begin with the main question. I believe that your team lacks width, especially on the left - as far as I remember, Ditz wasn't very attacking (and it can be argued that his peak was as a CB) and Villa won't provide much width - same as Simonsen on the right. While our flanks are simply devastating - top-class wingers/wing-forwards (capable of hugging the line if needed), plus two brilliant CB's, plus central midfielders who are used to go to their respective flanks.

In Keizer - Netto we're recreating a hugely successful partnership of Keizer and Gerrie Muhren - Netto possesses similar qualities to the latter.

And you can read more on the Zizinho's (arguably the best player on the pitch) role here - it's on Portuguese, but google-translate always helps.
Thanks mate.

Right to the point.

Dietz has scored more than 70 goals in his career. You'll struggle to find a full back with better goalscoring rate. He started as a winger and then was converted as a full back at club level and is also leading goalscorer as a defender in Bundesliga history.

He played as a left back in 76 EURO and of course could play as a sweeper and CB but that's due to his versatility. His best position is IMO at left back because he was great going forward as well.

He can create width while Schweini covers for him if he bombs forward.

On the other side we have Simonsen who was mainly a wide forward in the beginning of his career and when he was in optimal physical condition and had his top notch pace.

Bezsonov is also a full back that you can expect to give you width. I don't agree that we will have a problem in width.

David Villa has played as a winger both sides at Valencia and topped La liga charts in 06/07 with 12 assists. He also played as a wide forward in a similar role at Barca in 4-3-3.
 

harms

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I think that it's also fair to mention that we have a great duel in the middle - Zizinho in a free role will sometimes find himself into Cajkovski's zone.
This is, if I'm correct, the only confrontation that took place in the real life, they played against each other in the 1950 World Cup group game, Cajkovski was Yugoslavia's captain
In the Cup, Zizinho missed the first two matches of Brazil (against Mexico and Switzerland) because of a knee injury. The ace came on only in the third game, against Yugoslavia. And it was exactly the half realized, that July 1, 1950, considered best performance of a player with Brazil shirt at all times. Zizinho did everything. He scored goal gave pass to another (the Brazil won 2-0), dribbled, threw, ran frantically and hit all passes during the game. The Maracana standing ovation the star of the gala performance that has so lacking in previous matches selection. After that game, Zizinho received high praise from the Italian journalist Giordano Fattori, the Gazzetta dello Sport , which said: "The Zizinho football reminds Da Vinci painting some rare work" . It was enough to win the ace the nickname that both the consecrated: Master Ziza.
Edit:
Also a funny story about that game:
In the match against Yugoslavia, Brazil's midfielder Zizinho scored a double goal.
This lord of soccer grace scored a clean goal and the referee disallowed it unfairly. So Zizinho repeated it step by step. He entered the box at the same spot, dribbled around the same Yugoslav defender with the same delicacy, slipping by on the left as before, and drove the ball in at the exact same angle. Then he kicked the ball angrily several times against the net.
The referee understood that Zizinho was capable of repeating that goal ten more times, and had no choice but to allow it.

 
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Enigma_87

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Simonsen at his Gladbach peak under Lattek was something special -fast, skillful - could play either side of the attack and in the center. He's the only player to score in all European cup finals to this day.


For one out wide is his comfort zone as he'll get more of the ball, can dribble his way in and look for Papin or score himself.

Here's some highlights from the game against Pool in 77

He scored a wonderful goal from the left:


Great cross from the right after skinning the full back first:

Another great pass from the right side@2:30 in the video below:

full match highlights, well worth the watch

 
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Gio

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Both teams look well set up. Well done to both gaffers.

In midfield we have possibly the greatest ever Yugoslav player - Zlatko Cajkovski(Cik), playing as in a holding role.Very intelligent player, with very good technique and tremendous condition, stamina and mentality. Cik always played with great desire to win and even when his team was losing, he was able to motivate them, and turn lost game into victories. Played on the same level from first to the last minute of the game (he was really tireless).
Your Slav core looks pretty tasty, but tell me more about this guy. I think I've seen highlights of one game he was involved in, but don't know a lot about him.
 

Enigma_87

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I think that it's also fair to mention that we have a great duel in the middle - Zizinho in a free role will sometimes find himself into Cajkovski's zone.
This is, if I'm correct, the only confrontation that took place in the real life, they played against each other in the 1950 World Cup group game, Cajkovski was Yugoslavia's captain


Edit:
Also a funny story about that game:
In the match against Yugoslavia, Brazil's midfielder Zizinho scored a double goal.
This lord of soccer grace scored a clean goal and the referee disallowed it unfairly. So Zizinho repeated it step by step. He entered the box at the same spot, dribbled around the same Yugoslav defender with the same delicacy, slipping by on the left as before, and drove the ball in at the exact same angle. Then he kicked the ball angrily several times against the net.
The referee understood that Zizinho was capable of repeating that goal ten more times, and had no choice but to allow it.

aye quality should be better but it's hard to find good quality videos from that time. Cajkovski was captaining his side during that time of course it should be noted that it was a bit inferior to the Brazil side that made it to the finals, but beat Mexico 4-1(Cajkovski scored 2 goals) and Switzerland 3-0.

That Brazil game was funny one indeed with Yugoslavia playing with 10 men as in the video above during which Brazil took the lead.

The best players from that Yugoslav side were Bobek, Cajkovski and Beara the keeper.

Cajkovski also led the team 4 years later in the 1954 WC, when they drew Brazil(I'm not sure if Zizinho took part in that game) and won against France, only to lost to eventual winners Germany in the quarter final.
 

harms

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Cajkovski also led the team 4 years later in the 1954 WC, when they drew Brazil(I'm not sure if Zizinho took part in that game) and won against France, only to lost to eventual winners Germany in the final.
No, Zizinho declined the invitation to the national team in 1954 (and 1958, even though he was asked both times).
And I'm pretty sure that it was Hungary and not Yugoslavia who lost to Germany in that final btw
 

Enigma_87

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Both teams look well set up. Well done to both gaffers.

Your Slav core looks pretty tasty, but tell me more about this guy. I think I've seen highlights of one game he was involved in, but don't know a lot about him.
Sure. For one Cajkovski is considered probably the best central midfielder coming from Yugoslavia. He's a Croat, played early in his career as a right half, was a true fighter and a leader. I posted some quotes in the profiles to note how high he was regarded at the time. He was a very intelligent player ahead of his time, both in making runs and reading the game. What is his outstanding quality is his engine - Davids level if I may say. Although I'd put him below both Davids and Cafu if we directly compare them only due to the pace of the game in the 50's. Be he had the natural and physical ability do reach them IMO if he was born 10 years later.

Other than that he was very good short passer on the ball, had a good range but not so much weight and pace in his long balls but again it's a bit common in the era he played. Used to make forward runs in his younger years as well and was good on the ball but tactically he was very disciplined and covered a lot of ground.
 

Enigma_87

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No, Zizinho declined the invitation to the national team in 1954 (and 1958, even though he was asked both times).
And I'm pretty sure that it was Hungary and not Yugoslavia who lost to Germany in that final btw
Sorry, quarter finals, made a typo there. Yugoslavia had a good side at the time but lacked players in some positions to mount a challenge to Brazil, Germany or Uruguay.


^^highlights from the aforementioned game, Cajkovski should be #4.
 

harms

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What is his outstanding quality is his engine - Davids level if I may say. Although I'd put him below both Davids and Cafu if we directly compare them only due to the pace of the game in the 50's
PES ladders? :D
 

harms

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In midfield we have possibly the greatest ever Yugoslav player - Zlatko Cajkovski (Cik)
Btw, not a chance - Dzajic is widely regarded as the greatest ever Yugoslavian footballer and then there are Beara, Vasovic, Vukas, Zebec, Savicevic etc
 

Enigma_87

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Btw, not a chance - Dzajic is widely regarded as the greatest ever Yugoslavian footballer and then there are Beara, Vasovic, Vukas, Zebec, Savicevic etc
It's hard to compare positions really. Beara sure was the best keeper, Vasovic defender and Zebec is the most versatile ever. Really depends on how you look at it but granted - maybe if I put center midfielder it will sound better.

Savicevic/Stojkovic is one up for debate really, Savicevic made a name for himself and being in the spotlight for Milan also added to his stature, although I like Stojkovic better, personally - both in vision, stature and overall talent.
 

Enigma_87

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Any questions regarding my side?
If I may jump in :)

The most interesting positions in your line up - Streltsov. How good is he at leading the line? From what I know of him (not as much as you of course) he strikes me as a AM or a second striker. For example the comparison with Bergkamp is a good one. Doesn't he need a foil up forward so that he has a bit more space? Otherwise as a CF in this game he'll be between our CB pair with his back to the goal.

And second one is Jonquet - does he have the pace to keep up with Papin?
 

harms

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If I may jump in :)

The most interesting positions in your line up - Streltsov. How good is he at leading the line? From what I know of him (not as much as you of course) he strikes me as a AM or a second striker. For example the comparison with Bergkamp is a good one. Doesn't he need a foil up forward so that he has a bit more space? Otherwise as a CF in this game he'll be between our CB pair with his back to the goal.

And second one is Jonquet - does he have the pace to keep up with Papin?
He is brilliant at it - and I believe that I already touched it in some of the write-ups. Especially the young one - which is the Streltsov that we're playing. He had a ridiculous physique, he bullied defenders for fun and he alternated different tactics during the game - one moment he was a physical target man, the next one he was a pacey runner from behind etc. After the 7 year break without any professional football it was, of course, his physical qualities that took the biggest hit. He wasn't as pacey and strong as he was in his youth days - so he moved a little deeper, using his vision, passing and understanding of the game to adapt to a new role. There are more footage from this time so if you try to find out his actual playing style you're more likely to stumble upon his second "career"

Jonquet certainly has enough physical qualities to match Papin. While Buchwald is a tall enforcer (although this description doesn't do him justice, he was very all-rounded defender), Jonquet is a pacey and intelligent defender - his early interests included athletics, as you can see in the Guardian's obituary and on the many other sources


Actually, it is the difference between Papin and Streltsov that decides the game for me. Papin was absolutely brilliant in what he did, but a limited forward. He possessed probably one of the best shot techniques ever, but apart from that, being a shot-focused striker, he doesn't offer much, while Streltsov can be physical, can be pacey, can drop deeper, can run to the flanks (mostly on the left one) and can pick up the pass to a runner (Keizer/Ghiggia/Zizinho)
 

harms

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I won't post for a while, have some work to do - so Annah is free to post something if he wants too. Not as if there is any actual conversation going on, somehow our match doesn't invite any outside interest :(
 

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Both teams are closely matched. I'd give a slight edge to enigma but I will hold my decision and listen to the manager's arguments.
 

Enigma_87

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He is brilliant at it - and I believe that I already touched it in some of the write-ups. Especially the young one - which is the Streltsov that we're playing. He had a ridiculous physique, he bullied defenders for fun and he alternated different tactics during the game - one moment he was a physical target man, the next one he was a pacey runner from behind etc. After the 7 year break without any professional football it was, of course, his physical qualities that took the biggest hit. He wasn't as pacey and strong as he was in his youth days - so he moved a little deeper, using his vision, passing and understanding of the game to adapt to a new role.
So he started as a CF but moved to midfield? In what system did he used to play? It's interesting story definitely with a 7 years break.

Jonquet certainly has enough physical qualities to match Papin. While Buchwald is a tall enforcer (although this description doesn't do him justice, he was very all-rounded defender), Jonquet is a pacey and intelligent defender - his early interests included athletics, as you can see in the Guardian's obituary and on the many other sources


Actually, it is the difference between Papin and Streltsov that decides the game for me. Papin was absolutely brilliant in what he did, but a limited forward. He possessed probably one of the best shot techniques ever, but apart from that, being a shot-focused striker, he doesn't offer much, while Streltsov can be physical, can be pacey, can drop deeper, can run to the flanks (mostly on the left one) and can pick up the pass to a runner (Keizer/Ghiggia/Zizinho)
I was aware that Papin is a bit underrated IMO around here. I don't think I'm qualified enough to judge who is better out of the two(obviously biased as well) but regarding Papin at his peak there weren't many better than him. 3 times in a row goalscorer of the European Cup - a feat only achieved by Muller and Messi, whilst he was playing in an obviously inferior side.

40 goals in 60 European games - that's a great record no matter how you look at it. He could score outside the box, in the box, with a header, overhead kick, tremendous volleys and IMO had a pretty impressive short passing game on top of having excellent strike rate and pace. I don't think he was limited at all.

I mean if you just look at his goals:


And his stats - for 4 years in a row(89-92)

188 games 144 goals in all competitions. That's ridiculous strike rate.

He tends to get underrated mainly because of his time at Milan when he was past his peak, plagued with injuries to get some consistency and form. Yet he still scored 20 out of 34 games in his first season at Milan, and some were truly memorable goals.

And of course being part of French cursed generation when they didn't achieve pretty much anything during his peak years, so obviously that will take some toll as well, but given his club achievements: 1 CL, 1 EC final, 1 UEFA cup, 2 Seria A titles, 4 French leagues, 1 French cup - he had a pretty much successful club career.

His strike rate for the national team was also impressive - 30 goals in just 54 games.
 

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I won't post for a while, have some work to do - so Annah is free to post something if he wants too. Not as if there is any actual conversation going on, somehow our match doesn't invite any outside interest :(
@harms
@Enigma_87

Very interesting game.

I will participate in this discussion tonight... without drawing a formation.
 

harms

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So he started as a CF but moved to midfield?
More like to a support striker role, like Bergkamp or Cantona - just a tad deeper so that he would have more space to operate in as he didn't have the impressive physical attributes anymore

That's it, I'm going :D
 

Gio

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Any questions regarding my side?
I generally prefer my full-backs and wingers to occupy different channels or, failing that, thirds of the park - will Ghiggia and Alves be hitting the same space or will they be ganging up, with Zizinho in close support, on Dietz?
 

Enigma_87

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More like to a support striker role, like Bergkamp or Cantona - just a tad deeper so that he would have more space to operate in as he didn't have the impressive physical attributes anymore

That's it, I'm going :D
Yeah, just as I thought, especially given your modern day examples.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
I won't post for a while, have some work to do - so Annah is free to post something if he wants too. Not as if there is any actual conversation going on, somehow our match doesn't invite any outside interest :(
Its interesting mate, I just haven't managed to think of anything worthwhile to post, beyond to say fantastic work on the Streltsov write up and GIFs. One of the more comprehensive attempts to explain a little-known player that we've ever seen on here.
 

Annahnomoss

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I generally prefer my full-backs and wingers to occupy different channels or, failing that, thirds of the park - will Ghiggia and Alves be hitting the same space or will they be ganging up, with Zizinho in close support, on Dietz?
The team is built around Zizinho, who is arguably the best player on the pitch. Keizer was a fantastic goalscorer for a natural winger with his more or less a goal every other game ratio - and Zizinho kept up the same ratio from his role from the midfield. I also prefer if the winger and full back occupy different channels and even if Ghiggia was an outside right he would operate closer to goal in a similar manner to Stanley Matthews.

They weren't hugging the side line, leaving no space for an overlapping full back like you can see here:

Imagine an overlapping Alves there, who was a force to be reckon with when it comes to producing assists himself as well. And then on the inside right you have Zizinho making runs towards goal or staying deeper to look for a chance to go on one of his dribbling runs.

They also have some great targets in Streltsov and Keizer making runs in to the box behind the lines.
 
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Enigma_87

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Here's a good compilation of Villa on a subject that have been touched. He was really great goalscorer but also very versatile and creator. A lot of examples of his brilliant work wide,cutting in and combining with his team mates.


Here he's playing in a free role cutting from wide and having the support of Dietz when we have the ball.
 

harms

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Can someone who already voted comment on the game? It's depressing to see how the gap widens without knowing why and how it's happening
 

harms

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I think that it's fair to point on the fact that Enigma's wide forwards, who aren't a naturally wing players and were mostly goalscorers, won't be of much help to his fullbacks. While I have a genuine wingers on both sides, who were used to help out with the opposition's fullbacks in the defensive phase.

And when attacking, I will have numerical advantage - no one from Enigma's attacking trinity won't go back to help the defence, so it will be Ghiggia+Alves vs Dietz or Keizer+Byrne vs Bessonov.
 

Enigma_87

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I think that it's fair to point on the fact that Enigma's wide forwards, who aren't a naturally wing players and were mostly goalscorers, won't be of much help to his fullbacks. While I have a genuine wingers on both sides, who were used to help out with the opposition's fullbacks in the defensive phase.

And when attacking, I will have numerical advantage - no one from Enigma's attacking trinity won't go back to help the defence, so it will be Ghiggia+Alves vs Dietz or Keizer+Byrne vs Bessonov.
To be honest I don't believe Byrne will provide the width going forward or have the technical ability for the job.

Simonsen and Villa both have pretty good work rate. Keizer was never known to put a shift in defensively - exactly the opposite.
 

harms

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To be honest I don't believe Byrne will provide the width going forward or have the technical ability for the job.

Simonsen and Villa both have pretty good work rate. Keizer was never known to put a shift in defensively - exactly the opposite.

Jimmy Armfield was given the tag of the first full back to start the “overlapping full back” ploy. This is nonsense. Roger Byrne was the first full back to be seen to do this regularly in games. As a player with the experience of having played on the wing, he was always very comfortable at getting forward and supporting attacking play.
He was to be ever present from then on in what was to be the first Championship winning team since 1911. He played on the left wing for the last six games of that season, scoring six goals in the process.
Re: Keizer - he was known to be not a hardworking player - but he actually did what he was supposed to do as a winger, his tactical role defensively - being present on the flank and constrain the opposition's fullback. Plus we have Netto here, who is basically a better version of Gerrie Muhren - who is very comfortable at the left and played everywhere from the left back to the outside left positions - and he was known for his stamina, workrate and defensive contribution.

Are you saying that you can see Villa and Simonsen dropping back and covering Alves and Byrne runs? I, frankly, can't see it