Right Winger... Who do we go for?

[RedSky]

I was all for the signing of Sancho, Zaha, Costa - direct wingers who take players on; however, the more I think about it, the more I think about whether Jose actually wanted two wingers of similar attributes on each side.

The way Jose played, and the way Ole has continued to play, is having one winger to keep the width (Martial) and one to roam inside (Lingard, Mata). With Pogba pushing forward from midfield, Lingard/Mata roaming into the middle, and Matic and Herrera/Fred playing deeper, it means we resemble more of a 4222 formation in possession.

Below are the average positions in some of our games, where we used a 433

Vs Huddersfield

Vs Cardiff

Vs Everton

Vs Bournemouth

As you can see, there's a huge difference between Martial (11) and Mata/Lingard's (8/14) positioning.

If that's the way we're going to use our right winger, then obviously Sancho, Costa, etc is not the profile of singing we should be looking at. What we do need is someone who is more creative than Mata and Lingard.

Having said all of that, maybe we're only playing that way due to the options we have, although Mourinho did have the chance to address the issue in the summer.

Ideally, I would like to see two wingers on each side keeping the width and taking players on. The typical 'United way', if you like. Players like Sancho, Zaha, Costa, Mbappe, Suso, Thauvin, etc would all be ideal.

If we're looking for a roaming winger, then we should be focusing on Isco, Fekir, Eriksen, etc.

feck i hate Average Positions!

You can see from below, the reason why Mata's average position for the Huddersfield game is more or less in the middle of the pitch is because he was allowed to switch sides of the pitch in the first half. His heatmap however shows the much better story of his position on the right side of the pitch. I've thrown in Sanchos touches and heatmap against Bremen as an example. He hugs the touchline a little more but still drifts in, but the big difference is that Piszczek doesn't get into the final third for Dortmund. Whereas against Huddersfield we had Dalot bombing forward providing the width meaning Mata could drift in. Sancho has to remain wide to offer the width.

But in short, Average Positions sucks giant dick. It's fecking awful.

 

[izak]

Sancho

 

[RedNed77]

I wouldnt mind Sancho but for the money he's likely to cost, you're buying a young lad then hanging a massive albatross round his neck. I would only see that ending one way. On the flip side he does look decent and if you wait for him to develop further he'll only get more expensive. Damned if you do and damned if you dont with Sancho i reckon.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Michael Owen played for us, Paul Ince played for Liverpool. Doesn’t matter at all - it’s just that there is never likely to be a direct transfer between the clubs.

Not to sure on that Michael Owen is Michael Owen and that was Fergies call, giving them cast offs that are no longer wanted that’s fine. This is something different, an alright player with Liverpool ties coming to United nah, no dice. There are other options although I do think he would be alright for us there are better options.

 

[pocco]

After reading this thread the top 3 best option are Dembele, Sancho and Pulisic.

Dembele is vastly superior to the other two and should be the main target if he is available. Even without his speed he possesses worldclass technique. Currently the only other team I hear is interested is arsenal. We should be favorites to sign if arsenal is the only competition.

Just imagine martial and dembele running at you from either wing. They would need to increase stadium capacity to fill in the demand.

I'd take Sancho over Dembele in a heartbeat. Think he's going to be something special. To be honest i would be extremely wary of signing Dembele anyway, due to his apparent lack of professionalism. We don't need any more players here that are gong to rock the boat. I'm not entirely sold on Pulisic either, but that's partly because i want the best and Sancho looks like he'll be far better than him already.

 

[FirstTouch]

Why is no one mentioning Tahith Chong?

Great control at speed, great running of the ball, movement, very good link up play, very good finisher.

Is19 now and will be 20 next season so not like he's just left school.

Will surely get some game time under Ole.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Not to sure on that Michael Owen is Michael Owen and that was Fergies call, giving them cast offs that are no longer wanted that’s fine. This is something different, an alright player with Liverpool ties coming to United nah, no dice. There are other options although I do think he would be alright for us there are better options.

I’m really not sure what you are trying to say here! If we were given the opportunity to sign Coutinho for example and he was leaving Barca, there would be no issues - obviously very different for Suarez who clearly we would never want to play for the club. Owen was a Liverpool legend. Direct transfers are a complete no no. But there are no issues in signing players who have played for Liverpool and visa versa unless it’s someone like Suarez or Gary Neville.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Get Robben free from BM, on short term contract. Why? I cant think of a more suitable player and mentor for Tahith Chong and of course other players.

SAF did it with Larsson and I think it rubbed well with the much younger Rooney and Ronaldo at the time.

 

[AlexUTD]

Sancho looks LIT in this video,would be a huge upgrade on Mata/Lingard on the right side.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

feck i hate Average Positions!

You can see from below, the reason why Mata's average position for the Huddersfield game is more or less in the middle of the pitch is because he was allowed to switch sides of the pitch in the first half. His heatmap however shows the much better story of his position on the right side of the pitch. I've thrown in Sanchos touches and heatmap against Bremen as an example. He hugs the touchline a little more but still drifts in, but the big difference is that Piszczek doesn't get into the final third for Dortmund. Whereas against Huddersfield we had Dalot bombing forward providing the width meaning Mata could drift in. Sancho has to remain wide to offer the width.

But in short, Average Positions sucks giant dick. It's fecking awful.

I did it to wind you up.

Seriously, though, I could do heat maps as well, but against Huddersfield and in general, our right winger does cut in and our formation does resemble a 442. Don't need heat maps or average positions for that. Just need to watch the game.

 

[Kag]

Why is no one mentioning Tahith Chong?

Great control at speed, great running of the ball, movement, very good link up play, very good finisher.

Is19 now and will be 20 next season so not like he's just left school.

Will surely get some game time under Ole.

Because he already plays for the club so is therefore not as exciting.

Lots of talk about Sancho but given Pulisic is likely to leave the club, I see no reason for Dortmund to flog both of their young and talented right wingers. People are getting carried away.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I've always thought this was because neither Mata nor Lingard is suited to play on the right wing and both really prefer to play behind the striker instead. I believe we will see more balanced looking positions when we sign an actual right winger.

They're played to their strengths. The both, as you said, prefer to play behind the striker so I guess they are allowed that freedom to drift in. Lingard plays the exact same role for England.

I like it because it boosts up our midfield. As Mourinho described it, it gives us a 'midfield box', meaning we can have two midfielders to distribute, whilst Pogba and Mata/Lingard can focus on playing in between the lines and creating play, as we've seen in the last couple of games.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Because he already plays for the club so is therefore not as exciting.

Lots of talk about Sancho but given Pulisic is likely to leave the club, I see no reason for Dortmund to flog both of their young and talented right wingers. People are getting carried away.

We're not exactly spoilt for choice with right wingers at United.

Even if we got Sancho or any other right winger for that matter, Chong, providing he's good enough, will get his chance.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I’m really not sure what you are trying to say here! If we were given the opportunity to sign Coutinho for example and he was leaving Barca, there would be no issues - obviously very different for Suarez who clearly we would never want to play for the club. Owen was a Liverpool legend. Direct transfers are a complete no no. But there are no issues in signing players who have played for Liverpool and visa versa unless it’s someone like Suarez or Gary Neville.

I’m saying that if he was something special like as you say Coutinho people could overlook it but not for a slightly above average player and even when we got Owen there were people moaning about him and he was really only ever going to be a sub.

Even the slightest dip in form or if he didn’t hit the ground running the knives would be out sorry but no, not for me.

 

[RedSky]

I did it to wind you up.

Seriously, though, I could do heat maps as well, but against Huddersfield and in general, our right winger does cut in and our formation does resemble a 442. Don't need heat maps or average positions for that. Just need to watch the game.

Yeah it's a pet peev of mine. It's junk. Either way, Sancho has it in his locker. Personally with Pulisic leaving its unlikely we'd get him anyway.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I’m saying that if he was something special like as you say Coutinho people could overlook it but not for a slightly above average player and even when we got Owen there were people moaning about him and he was really only ever going to be a sub.

Even the slightest dip in form or if he didn’t hit the ground running the knives would be out sorry but no, not for me.

To be fair I don’t even know the player we are talking about. I just don’t think it’s an issue, whatever the standard of the player. Let’s be honest, our homegrown players get a horrendous amount of stick as it is, I don’t think it would make a difference that they played for Liverpool.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Yeah it's a pet peev of mine. It's junk. Either way, Sancho has it in his locker. Personally with Pulisic leaving its unlikely we'd get him anyway.

Costa, Suso, Thauvin and Zaha would also be good options.

 

[NYAS]

I would postpone this purchase to summer 2020 if it means getting Sancho. There’s no one else really worth it and I’m sure he wants to stay another year at Dortmund and prove he can do it again. It also gives him more time to mature and Dortmund won’t be selling Pulisic and Sancho in the same year.

Also I only see Chelsea (only if Hazard leaves) and Real being serious competitors for his signature along with us if we’re in for him.

 

[KennyBurner]

I'd take Sancho over Dembele in a heartbeat. Think he's going to be something special. To be honest i would be extremely wary of signing Dembele anyway, due to his apparent lack of professionalism. We don't need any more players here that are gong to rock the boat. I'm not entirely sold on Pulisic either, but that's partly because i want the best and Sancho looks like he'll be far better than him already.

Yh that’s why I put pulisic 3rd place. I’m really not following the hype over him in particular. Sancho is good but we might have to see more over time unfortunately because these German leagues have produced frauds in the past.

Dembele might be unprofessional but I just can’t get over the fact there is none more skillful combined with his pace at that age. A lot of people think mbappe is better than him but I’m tend to disagree. It’s one of those cases were you judge with your eyes of statistics. I also think a lot might just want sancho because of the English bias which isn’t bad. Still dembele is just too elite to pass on if available.

 

[Red_Orchestra]

I like Sancho's style of play, from the little that I've watched. He's more of a traditional pass first type of winger, not to many of those. His delivery rate and chance creation is off the charts. It all depends on what type of player the next manager wants, will he pursue a pass first or shoot first type of winger.

 

[Isotope]

I'm championing us to get Brooks. We'll see if tomorrow he's impressive again.

 

[ash_86]

Bid for Malcom from Barca where he isn't playing much. Definitely has good potential.

 

[ErranMorad]

I don't think we necessarily need a hug the touchline winger who provides crosses. I would much prefer someone like Fekir to replace Mata on the right.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Julian Brandt...?

Ah. The very few times I’ve seen him he was out right and looked pretty good.

 

[Rozay]

Bid for Malcom from Barca where he isn't playing much. Definitely has good potential.

Too slow for my liking.

 

[Dante]

Our attack is fine.

With all the drifting going on today, Martial found himself on the right wing loads of times against Bournemouth. We don't need a dedicated right-winger when the front 3 interchange.

We could do with upgrading on Lingard, but that's what Sanchez is for.

Martial + Rashford + Sanchez is full of running, full of goals, full of pressing, full of creativity. It's easily up there amongst the best trios in Europe when utilised correctly. The clamour for big names causes us to forget that.

Lingard + Mata + Lukaku are able deputies. Chong and Greenwood are waiting to prove themsleves as Sanchez and Mata reach the end of their careers. They're at the perfect age to show what they can do with minutes on the pitch.

I think we should prioritise defence and possibly midfield.

 

[pocco]

Yh that’s why I put pulisic 3rd place. I’m really not following the hype over him in particular. Sancho is good but we might have to see more over time unfortunately because these German leagues have produced frauds in the past.

Dembele might be unprofessional but I just can’t get over the fact there is none more skillful combined with his pace at that age. A lot of people think mbappe is better than him but I’m tend to disagree. It’s one of those cases were you judge with your eyes of statistics. I also think a lot might just want sancho because of the English bias which isn’t bad. Still dembele is just too elite to pass on if available.

I saw Sancho in the youth leagues and for England and you just knew he was something special. It's early days but you don't pass up on that sort of talent. We've done that too much in recent years.

I liked Dembele a lot from what i saw of him in France,without doubt a very talented player, but after enduring the past few years with United i just couldn't stomach signing another egotistical player that still hasn't mastered their trade. I want people with the right attitude only from now on. If it came to ability I'd sign him tomorrow, if Sancho wasn't interested in coming.

I think when all is said and done, Sancho will have the better career. He's magic and would light up Old Trafford. A future with him, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford...we'd be back in business.

 

[Andycoleno9]

My issue with this transfer is this. We don't have natural rw, it is clear. But we have six players for 3 positions in attack. Two of them( Rash and Martial) must play because they are future of this club and because they are highly rated, they will not accept bench anymore. Two of them( Lukaku and Alexis) are highly paid stars on huge wages and they will also not accept bench( and tbh, it does not make sense to keep them there) so they either play or you cut your losses. You also have Lingard who is rated by managers( i really don't know why) and Mata who is good squad option. Plus you have Chong who must start to play in next season or two.
So if we buy natural right winger, who will be sold? And will we go for first choice winger or for squad option?

 

[UpWithRivers]

My issue with this transfer is this. We don't have natural rw, it is clear. But we have six players for 3 positions in attack. Two of them( Rash and Martial) must play because they are future of this club and because they are highly rated, they will not accept bench anymore. Two of them( Lukaku and Alexis) are highly paid stars on huge wages and they will also not accept bench( and tbh, it does not make sense to keep them there) so they either play or you cut your losses. You also have Lingard who is rated by managers( i really don't know why) and Mata who is good squad option. Plus you have Chong who must start to play in next season or two.
So if we buy natural right winger, who will be sold? And will we go for first choice winger or for squad option?

Sell lindgard and Sanchez - replace with chong and new first choice right winger.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Sell lindgard and Sanchez - replace with chong and new first choice right winger.

I would wait with Alexis. I think that he can be our solution for rw. Selling Lingard would be best transfer ever for me but it will never happen

 

[FootyGirl88]

My issue with this transfer is this. We don't have natural rw, it is clear. But we have six players for 3 positions in attack. Two of them( Rash and Martial) must play because they are future of this club and because they are highly rated, they will not accept bench anymore. Two of them( Lukaku and Alexis) are highly paid stars on huge wages and they will also not accept bench( and tbh, it does not make sense to keep them there) so they either play or you cut your losses. You also have Lingard who is rated by managers( i really don't know why) and Mata who is good squad option. Plus you have Chong who must start to play in next season or two.
So if we buy natural right winger, who will be sold? And will we go for first choice winger or for squad option?

Lukaku and Mata should be sold imo

 

[Garethw]

I would wait with Alexis. I think that he can be our solution for rw. Selling Lingard would be best transfer ever for me but it will never happen

Lingard is a great squad option and also counts towards the homegrown quota.

 

[stevoc]

I was all for the signing of Sancho, Zaha, Costa - direct wingers who take players on; however, the more I think about it, the more I think about whether Jose actually wanted two wingers of similar attributes on each side.

The way Jose played, and the way Ole has continued to play, is having one winger to keep the width (Martial) and one to roam inside (Lingard, Mata). With Pogba pushing forward from midfield, Lingard/Mata roaming into the middle, and Matic and Herrera/Fred playing deeper, it means we resemble more of a 4222 formation in possession.

Below are the average positions in some of our games, where we used a 433

Vs Huddersfield

Vs Cardiff

Vs Everton

Vs Bournemouth

As you can see, there's a huge difference between Martial (11) and Mata/Lingard's (8/14) positioning.

If that's the way we're going to use our right winger, then obviously Sancho, Costa, etc is not the profile of singing we should be looking at. What we do need is someone who is more creative than Mata and Lingard.

Having said all of that, maybe we're only playing that way due to the options we have, although Mourinho did have the chance to address the issue in the summer.

Ideally, I would like to see two wingers on each side keeping the width and taking players on. The typical 'United way', if you like. Players like Sancho, Zaha, Costa, Mbappe, Suso, Thauvin, etc would all be ideal.

If we're looking for a roaming winger, then we should be focusing on Isco, Fekir, Eriksen, etc.

Mata and Lingard are not wingers and don't pretend to be thats why they are so narrow. We need someone to mirror Martial to make the attack more balanced.

How Solskjaers set up players he just taken over in his first 3 games won't really give us any indication of how the permanent manager whoever they may be will want to set things up.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Mata and Lingard are not wingers and don't pretend to be thats why they are so narrow. We need someone to mirror Martial to make the attack more balanced.

How Solskjaers set up players he just taken over in his first 3 games won't really give us any indication of how the permanent manager whoever they may be will want to set things up.

I agree, but if they were given strict instructions to stay on the right, they'd have to do it. As it is, Solskjaer has continued with what Mourninho did and has allowed both Mata and Lingard to roam inside because they're more comfortable doing so.

Going forward, I definitely feel we need someone like Martial but on the right. Someone who can, both cut in and keep the width in accordance to how the game is going.

 

[KennyBurner]

I saw Sancho in the youth leagues and for England and you just knew he was something special. It's early days but you don't pass up on that sort of talent. We've done that too much in recent years.

I liked Dembele a lot from what i saw of him in France,without doubt a very talented player, but after enduring the past few years with United i just couldn't stomach signing another egotistical player that still hasn't mastered their trade. I want people with the right attitude only from now on. If it came to ability I'd sign him tomorrow, if Sancho wasn't interested in coming.

I think when all is said and done, Sancho will have the better career. He's magic and would light up Old Trafford. A future with him, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford...we'd be back in business.

You actually think sancho who isn’t as good as dembele will have a better career. Dembele has already won a World Cup And also currently plays in a team that is guaranteed trophies each year mind you. How did you come up with that conclusion? Is it because of demebele lack of professionalism?

I feel we are really hyping up sancho in this thread. The guy is good but you guys are basically insinuating he is going to be world class just because he is having a brilliant season at Dortmund. Let’s take a step back and relax. We also have an English bias which is somewhat understandable.

I do like your point on not having egotistical players anymore at United after these past years but it’s part of having a great team. The only thing I can’t wrap my head around is his unprofessionalism in regards to training. Still we are talking about a future ballon dor winner in Dembele and a potential great player in sancho. We can’t confuse the two. We always want the absolute best at United and so I think dembele is a good risk.

 

[KennyBurner]

Lingard is a great squad option and also counts towards the homegrown quota.

How people want lingard sold after all this time will always amaze me. They forget that you can have more than 11 players in a squad and also forget he is an academy and English player.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

How people want lingard sold after all this time will always amaze me. They forget that you can have more than 11 players in a squad and also forget he is an academy and English player.

Get a really good fee for him. Especially when the owners limit what we can spend. In reality Lingard should be fighting for a place on the bench, not in the first XI.

 

[KennyBurner]

Get a really good fee for him. Especially when the owners limit what we can spend. In reality Lingard should be fighting for a place on the bench, not in the first XI.

Did you not just read what I wrote? We can buy better players and have him on the bench as a great squad option. He is an invaluable squad option. Why would you want a good fee for him with all his experience and league requirements(English and academy player)? I don’t understand?

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Did you not just read what I wrote? We can buy better players and have him on the bench as a great squad option. He is an invaluable squad option. Why would you want a good fee for him with all his experience and league requirements(English and academy player)? I don’t understand?

I agree he’s good for the bench, though I think he should be deeper on the bench than most do. I just mean we have very few players we could sell for a decent fee and we still need to spend a lot of money. If he’s only a bench option and an English team would pay 50M for him then it would be wise to sell him. He wouldn’t be nearly as missed as most think if selling him meant getting a proper RW.

Edit: If Spurs could sell Lamela or Klopp could sell Lallana for 50M don’t you think they’d do that?

 

[Mcking]

Sell lindgard and Sanchez - replace with chong and new first choice right winger.

I think Lingard is probably the last player we'd sell.