Rival Fans: Why are Utd so unpopular?

[jackofalltrades]

I have a colleague who winds me up about United fans and where they're from. Curiously, he's from Ipswich and supports Leeds. Of all the Liverpool fans I work with not one is from England, let alone the city itself. The City fan is from Scotland, the Spurs fan is from Coventry, the Coventry fan is from Dublin, as is the Chelsea fan. The Arsenal fan should support QPR and the West Ham fan is from Brighton.

 

[Rooney24]

It's not just success although obviously it's a contributing factor.

I remember pre fergie when we were winning feck all and people still hated us.

In my opinion it's because we are seen as the "glamour" club of England. People don't seem to like that

 

[SteveJ]

My friend who supports Leeds absolutely detests United, he's a painter and refuses to do jobs in red paint. When his wife bought some pegs he threw all the red ones out.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Loads of reasons really.

1. Success
2. Fanbase
3. Money
4. Shameless, often crass commercialism
5. A long line of confrontational players (Robson, Bruce, Keane, Cantona, G Neville, Hughes, Scholes)
6. Perceived posers (Beckham, Ronaldo)
7. Perceived parochialism and outright hostility towards the national team

But hostly it's because United don't care about being hated. In fact, as people have said above, most of us revel in it. We cherish the unfair media coverage and refereeing injustices against us, and anyone who isn't openly pro-United is 'one of them.' If I had a pound for every time someone said 'if United had done that...' I'd be richer than Donald Trump.

Other clubs (Liverpool are a classic example) try to cultivate a positive image and actively court the affection of the media and the general public. United do the opposite, which is probably the best aspect of being a United supporter.

 

[Revan]

For pretty much the same reason that most of Spanish fans hate Real Madrid, most of german fans hate Bayern, most of Italian fans hate Juve.

These are the biggest clubs in their countries and have the highest fanbase. At the same time, there are more people than hate those clubs that the others.

Fact is, a lot of English fans love to hate United and think that United is their No.1 rival, just because United is so big and popular. Our rivals have always been Liverpool, City and Leeds (in that order), but all three of them consider us as their biggest rival. And clubs like West Ham consider us as their biggest rival, despite that we don't care about their existence.

It is the same thing here in Italy. Juventus has as biggest rivals Torino and Inter. On the other side, the likes of Roma, Fiorentina, Napoli and to some degree Milan, hate Juventus with a passion of a thousand suns despite that Juve don't give a shit about them (most of the time). At the entrance of Firenze in the highway is written on extremely large letters 'Juve AIDS' and Fiorentina fans hate Juventus so much but on the other side, Juve fans are mostly indifferent to Fiorentina. Similarly, to how we are indifferent to West Ham, or Real Madrid is indifferent to some midtable Spanish clubs that think that Real is their biggest rival.

 

[balaks]

Loads of reasons really.

1. Success
2. Fanbase
3. Money
4. Shameless, often crass commercialism
5. A long line of confrontational players (Robson, Bruce, Keane, Cantona, G Neville, Hughes, Scholes)
6. Perceived posers (Beckham, Ronaldo)
7. Perceived parochialism and outright hostility towards the national team

But hostly it's because United don't care about being hated. In fact, as people have said above, most of us revel in it. We cherish the unfair media coverage and refereeing injustices against us, and anyone who isn't openly pro-United is 'one of them.' If I had a pound for every time someone said 'if United had done that...' I'd be richer than Donald Trump.

Other clubs (Liverpool are a classic example) try to cultivate a positive image and actively court the affection of the media and the general public. United do the opposite, which is probably the best aspect of being a United supporter.

Hahahahaha oh my word... you should try supporting a team outside of the so called top 4/'big teams'. Hilarious.

 

[RedRoach]

I've mentioned this analogy on here before, but it still rings true for me as a technology person. United are very similar to Apple in the technology world. They are so big, so popular that everyone around the world is on standby waiting for them to fail.

Newspapers and the media know very well which articles and stories sell papers / produce clicks, an article about United or Apple will sell. Why? Because you have the rabid opposition fans who hate United so much that they must dissect stories about United (or Apple) in order to find a way to comment or rant about the article. Any praise for United is considered bias, any criticism considered not enough and flaws balloon into major crisis.

Apple for example have a minor issue with a device and it is international news with everyone writing about it. United's failures are similarly amplified to the extreme by the reams of commentary and discussion about them because United are quite simply the biggest team in the UK and in the top 3 in the world. Go and look at the comments on any United article on the BBC site and the majority are complaining about the presence of "yet another United article" and yet those same authors of said comments have obviously clicked on the article and gone to the effort to write a comment on a United story.

Every move that United make it under a massive global microscope, whilst lesser clubs don't get this fanatical attention from fans and opposition fans alike. In a way United is so popular because there is just as much interest from opposition fans in what United does as there is from United fans. I couldn't give a toss what the composition of, or who the manager is of Everton, West Ham or the majority of opposition teams, but opposition fans are very interested in what United are up to at any point in time.

 

[balaks]

I've mentioned this analogy on here before, but it still rings true for me as a technology person. United are very similar to Apple in the technology world. They are so big, so popular that everyone around the world is on standby waiting for them to fail.

Newspapers and the media know very well which articles and stories sell papers / produce clicks, an article about United or Apple will sell. Why? Because you have the rabid opposition fans who hate United so much that they must dissect stories about United (or Apple) in order to find a way to comment or rant about the article. Any praise for United is considered bias, any criticism considered not enough and flaws balloon into major crisis.

Apple for example have a minor issue with a device and it is international news with everyone writing about it. United's failures are similarly amplified to the extreme by the reams of commentary and discussion about them because United are quite simply the biggest team in the UK and in the top 3 in the world. Go and look at the comments on any United article on the BBC site and the majority are complaining about the presence of "yet another United article" and yet those some authors of said comments have obviously clicked on the article and gone to the effort to write a comment on a United story.

Every move that United make it under a massive global microscope, whilst lesser clubs don't get this fanatical attention from fans and opposition fans alike. In a way United is so popular because there is just as much interest from opposition fans in what United does as there is from United fans. I couldn't give a toss what the composition of, or who the manager is of Everton, West Ham or the majority of opposition teams, but opposition fans are very interested in what United are up to at any point in time.

I think you mean the media - opposition fans are only interested in what happens at their own teams and mostly couldn't give two hoots what is going on at Utd.

 

[RedRoach]

I think you mean the media - opposition fans are only interested in what happens at their own teams and mostly couldn't give two hoots what is going on at Utd.

And yet here you are writing on a United forum

Go the any of the major newspaper websites (The Guardian, The Mail, the BBC etc.) and check the comments section, absolutely full of opposition fans and ABUs commenting on the articles. Hardly any other club has the same number of fanatic opposition fans

 

[balaks]

And yet here you are writing on a United forum

Go the any of the major newspaper websites (The Guardian, The Mail, the BBC etc.) and check the comments section, absolutely full of opposition fans and ABUs commenting on the articles. Hardly any other club has the same number of fanatic opposition fans

I'm here because I have a connection to Utd, not because I'm a Spurs fan - also I felt the need to try and put a balanced view of my own club in what has generally been bonkers thanks to certain posters. Every club has fanatic opposition fans, my own Spurs have all the other London clubs - same for them. It's just old rivalries rather than some 'special' treatment for the wonderful utd.

 

[mungy]

I think the fact that United, like Liverpool, have lots of non-match going fans in every town and city across the country has a lot to do with it. As a local City fan, it's nothing to do with that and it's purely the local rivalry thing that shapes it for me - if you were bottom of the 4th tier, I'd still not want you to win so much as a throw-in (unless a United win benefitted City in some way). That said, I've got mates who have followed United all over the place and while we've been involved in some heated debates down the years, deep down there's a begrudging respect between us because we've all put a hell of a lot of time, money, and effort into following our clubs. One of them is a former United hooligan but is as sound as they come, and he's always looked out for his City-supporting mates.

But back to the glory-hunter thing - you're right that even match-going United fans get tagged with it and that must be annoying as hell (I know if someone accused me of being a glory-hunting City fan, they'd be swallowing their words within seconds), especially if it comes from someone who doesn't exactly attend too many matches themselves. A guy at work here is a United fan and has held a season ticket for many years. A few years back he was on a beano with some mates in York and they were watching a United game in a pub. An Arsenal fan who was in there piped up to him: "United fan eh? So how many times have you been to Old Trafford then?" to which he replied quick as a flash "More times than Ryan Giggs". Needless to say, the Arsenal fan soon shut up.

I'll also add that glory-hunting fans aren't confined to non-local areas. There are plenty of local glory-hunters - and City are starting to attract them in considerable numbers too - who have never set foot inside the stadium of the club they support and have no intention of doing so. As such, those non-local United fans that actually do attend matches deserve a lot more credit than the local non-attending glory-hunters for putting the time, money, and effort into following the club. I remember a post on here many years ago where a United fan from Plymouth was staying in Manchester after a home game. He got talking to a local United fan in one of the clubs in town who had never been to Old Trafford and was lecturing the Plymouth-based red on how expensive it was to buy a ticket.....while spending a fortune on alcohol.

Great post

 

[Ban]

I'm here because I have a connection to Utd, not because I'm a Spurs fan - also I felt the need to try and put a balanced view of my own club in what has generally been bonkers thanks to certain posters. Every club has fanatic opposition fans, my own Spurs have all the other London clubs - same for them. It's just old rivalries rather than some 'special' treatment for the wonderful utd.

So you think articles about United are not clicked, read and commented on more than other clubs?

 

[balaks]

So you think articles about United are not clicked, read and commented on more than other clubs?

Only because there are more articles being written about utd - which again brings me to the media focusing almost exclusively on Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and to a lesser degree Arsenal.

 

[Ban]

Only because there are more articles being written about utd - which again brings me to the media focusing almost exclusively on Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and to a lesser degree Arsenal.

Well I guess media has a good reason for that.

 

[Revan]

The 'glory hunter' term when it comes to the football is the worst term ever made, for anything.

I mean, what type of glory someone gets for supporting a team, when that team wins. You might get joy, but not glory. The team, players, manager, coaches and owners get glory, not the fans. Fans get excited and give money, not get glory.

 

[balaks]

Well I guess media has a good reason for that.

Yeah they do - Mr Murdoch.

 

[Revan]

Yeah they do - Mr Murdoch.

Is he a United fan?

 

[RedRoach]

Yeah they do - Mr Murdoch.

Not all of the media is owned by Murdoch (or has the BBC and The Guardian been taken over whilst and I missed it?). Open your eyes dude, the media write about United because United sells. The media get paid by advertising and click throughs, and they know exactly which articles draw readers and which don't. Writing about Tottenham the whole time whilst your media rivals write about United would lead to less clicks which means less money. Simple economics.

Which is where my Apple comparison came in. You think the media writes about Apple because they all love Apple? No they do it because their name and brand draws the most interest from readers.

 

[Moby]

he's a painter and refuses to do jobs in red paint.

 

[balaks]

Not all of the media is owned by Murdoch (or has the BBC and The Guardian been taken over whilst and I missed it?). Open your eyes dude, the media write about United because United sells. The media get paid by advertising and click throughs, and they know exactly which articles draw readers and which don't. Writing about Tottenham the whole time whilst your media rivals write about United would lead to less clicks which means less money. Simple economics.

Which is where my Apple comparison came in. You think the media writes about Apple because they all love Apple? No they do it because their name and brand draws the most interest from readers.

I'm not saying Utd do not have the most fans - they almost certainly do - what I'm responding to is that fans of other teams are also very interested in what happens at Utd - I disagree with that.

I also have no interest in what Apple do if that helps lol I'm a pc man through and through.

 

[RedRoach]

I'm not saying Utd do not have the most fans - they almost certainly do - what I'm responding to is that fans of other teams are also very interested in what happens at Utd - I disagree with that.

It was probably unfair to generalise and say all fans, but there are certainly many opposition fans who do take great pleasure in United's struggles and contribute to the media hysteria around the club.

I also have no interest in what Apple do if that helps lol I'm a pc man through and through.

I'm sure you don't, I was comparing groups of people with a particular interest (Technology and Football in this case) not necessarily saying that all 7 billion people on the planet care about United or Apple (or Technology or Football in general).

 

[villain]

Only because there are more articles being written about utd - which again brings me to the media focusing almost exclusively on Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and to a lesser degree Arsenal.

Looking at the Daily Mail articles written today only.

• An article about Mourinho: 200 comments, Rashford: 16 comments, Bailly & Lindelof: 32 comments = 248 comments, 3 articles in total
• Article about Gabriel Jesus: 29 comments, 1 article
• Article about Firmino's drinking: 138 comments, Coutinho's return: 0 comments, Firmino wishing Lucas Happy Birthday: 4 comments, Gomez: 21 comments = 153 comments, 4 articles in total
• Giroud's contract: 13 comments, Welbeck injury woes: 42 comments, Arsenal trio training: 3 comments, Bellerin's jacket: 28 comments = 86 comments, 4 articles in total
• Chelsea's loan system: 34 comments. Courtois shooting skills: 8 comments, Chelsea refuse Loftus Cheek Loan offers: 4 comments = 46, 3 articles in total
• Eric Dier wants captaincy: 3 comments, 1 article. (2 more articles written yesterday, not included)

That excludes opinion pieces because they often include players from most of the clubs so the comments section isn't a fair reflection - similarly for transfer news articles also.

You could argue that the Mourinho article is at the top of the page, but the Jesus article is right next to it and only has 29 comments.
People just don't care to look at it because it's City.

 

[balaks]

It was probably unfair to generalise and say all fans, but there are certainly many opposition fans who do take great pleasure in United's struggles and contribute to the media hysteria around the club.

Supporters from their traditional rivals certainly do - i.e. Liverpool, City, Leeds, etc. outside of that I really do not think there is nearly as much interest as you are suggesting. Certainly not my experience.

 

[balaks]

Looking at the Daily Mail articles written today only.

• An article about Mourinho: 200 comments, Rashford: 16 comments, Bailly & Lindelof: 32 comments = 248 comments, 3 articles in total
• Article about Gabriel Jesus: 29 comments, 1 article
• Article about Firmino's drinking: 138 comments, Coutinho's return: 0 comments, Firmino wishing Lucas Happy Birthday: 4 comments, Gomez: 21 comments = 153 comments, 4 articles in total
• Giroud's contract: 13 comments, Welbeck injury woes: 42 comments, Arsenal trio training: 3 comments, Bellerin's jacket: 28 comments = 86 comments, 4 articles in total
• Chelsea's loan system: 34 comments. Courtois shooting skills: 8 comments, Chelsea refuse Loftus Cheek Loan offers: 4 comments = 46, 3 articles in total
• Eric Dier wants captaincy: 3 comments, 1 article. (2 more articles written yesterday, not included)

That excludes opinion pieces because they often include players from most of the clubs so the comments section isn't a fair reflection - similarly for transfer news articles also.

You could argue that the Mourinho article is at the top of the page, but the Jesus article is right next to it and only has 29 comments.
People just don't care to look at it because it's City.

Why would anybody be commenting on a City player that nobody has even seen play yet vs commenting about Mourinho who has always been box office? Not sure that's an effective example to make for your argument. What it does show - at least today anyway, is that most comments are from Liverpool and Man Utd interested people - the two most supported English clubs in the world. Hardly a surprise?

 

[Skills]

We're the most popular club in the country from what I see.

 

[villain]

Why would anybody be commenting on a City player that nobody has even seen play yet vs commenting about Mourinho who has always been box office? Not sure that's an effective example to make for your argument. What it does show - at least today anyway, is that most comments are from Liverpool and Man Utd interested people - the two most supported English clubs in the world. Hardly a surprise?

You said more articles are written about United than the other clubs - which based on today, isn't true even Arsenal have more articles than us.
And if you look at the comments on the Mourinho article (which has an extra 20 comments by now btw) it's a small margin but its almost 50/50 United/Oppo fans. Which goes back to the main theme of this thread, and if I were a sports journalist and the amount of user engagement was a metric I needed to keep on top of, United articles bait opposition fans quite easily.

 

[balaks]

You said more articles are written about United than the other clubs - which based on today, isn't true even Arsenal have more articles than us.
And if you look at the comments on the Mourinho article (which has an extra 20 comments by now btw) it's a small margin but its almost 50/50 United/Oppo fans. Which goes back to the main theme of this thread, and if I were a sports journalist and the amount of user engagement was a metric I needed to keep on top of, United articles bait opposition fans quite easily.

My advice to you would be to not take one newspapers content on one day as an indication of what all papers on every day produce. It would be foolish to suggest it.

 

[villain]

My advice to you would be to not take one newspapers content on one day as an indication of what all papers on every day produce. It would be foolish to suggest it.

I didn't say it was an indication of what all papers produce, but what I presented is still factual whether it fits your argument or not. That can't be denied.

United articles get more engagement because United have more supporters, and because opposition fans like to troll on United articles - this means more clicks, more comments, more shares etc.
As websites depend on 'clicks' for ad-revenue the most popular (and therefore 'engaging') articles will be at the forefront of their websites, if that means you as a casual reader see more United articles frequently that might twist your perception to think that newspapers write about United more frequently.

The Guardian website for comparison has 3 Liverpool articles, 2 United Articles and 1 Arsenal article all written today.
Likewise the Independant has 3 articles for each of Arsenal, Liverpool, United & Chelsea plus an additional article for Arsenal, Liverpool & United at the top of the page - again there's more transfer articles further down but i'm not including them because they often have a combination of clubs included.

 

[The Man Himself]

Jealousy is the central reason, no matter how they will try to paint it.

Good to see one scouser losing his shit and getting banned though. Thread has achieved its purpose.

 

[Revan]

My advice to you would be to not take one newspapers content on one day as an indication of what all papers on every day produce. It would be foolish to suggest it.

So, what is a better indication? Claiming that Murdoch for non-economical reasons decides to print a lot of stuff about United.

 

[balaks]

So, what is a better indication? Claiming that Murdoch for non-economical reasons decides to print a lot of stuff about United.

They print stories about Utd, Liverpool, etc because they have the most fans around the world = more interest = more cash. It is not because fans of other clubs have a real interest in them imo.

 

[Revan]

They print stories about Utd, Liverpool, etc because they have the most fans around the world = more interest = more cash. It is not because fans of other clubs have a real interest in them imo.

Which is exactly what the other two posters were saying. I mean, here is the exact chronology:

I'm here because I have a connection to Utd, not because I'm a Spurs fan - also I felt the need to try and put a balanced view of my own club in what has generally been bonkers thanks to certain posters. Every club has fanatic opposition fans, my own Spurs have all the other London clubs - same for them. It's just old rivalries rather than some 'special' treatment for the wonderful utd.

So you think articles about United are not clicked, read and commented on more than other clubs?

Only because there are more articles being written about utd - which again brings me to the media focusing almost exclusively on Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and to a lesser degree Arsenal.

Well I guess media has a good reason for that.

Yeah they do - Mr Murdoch.

Is he a United fan?

Not all of the media is owned by Murdoch (or has the BBC and The Guardian been taken over whilst and I missed it?). Open your eyes dude, the media write about United because United sells. The media get paid by advertising and click throughs, and they know exactly which articles draw readers and which don't. Writing about Tottenham the whole time whilst your media rivals write about United would lead to less clicks which means less money. Simple economics.

Which is where my Apple comparison came in. You think the media writes about Apple because they all love Apple? No they do it because their name and brand draws the most interest from readers.

United generates more interest than the other teams in the league, that is why United gets more story form journos. Not because Murdoch loves United.

I also think that fans of other teams are quite interested for United, because United is the top rival (or one of the top rivals) for more other clubs than any other club in the league. People also read news about their rivals. Typically, I am more interested in Liverpool than in Swansea, more interested in City than in Hull and more interested in Leeds than in Huddersfield. Similarly, United being considered a rival for most other teams, means that there are a lot of non-United fans who are interested on reading about United.

Similarly, I would guess that most of Spurs reads are done from Spurs fans, with other views made mostly by Arsenal fans and then later Chelsea fans. Football is tribal in nature, as much as people love their team they hate their rivals. And United has more rivals (or clubs that consider themselves as United's rivals) more than any other team in the league.

 

[balaks]

Which is exactly what the other two posters were saying. I mean, here is the exact chronology:








United generates more interest than the other teams in the league, that is why United gets more story form journos. Not because Murdoch loves United.

I also think that fans of other teams are quite interested for United, because United is the top rival (or one of the top rivals) for more other clubs than any other club in the league. People also read news about their rivals. Typically, I am more interested in Liverpool than in Swansea, more interested in City than in Hull and more interested in Leeds than in Huddersfield. Similarly, United being considered a rival for most other teams, means that there are a lot of non-United fans who are interested on reading about United.

Similarly, I would guess that most of Spurs reads are done from Spurs fans, with other views made mostly by Arsenal fans and then later Chelsea fans. Football is tribal in nature, as much as people love their team they hate their rivals. And United has more rivals (or clubs that consider themselves as United's rivals) more than any other team in the league.

No more than any other rival club though - the difference in numbers is mainly down to the much higher numbers of Utd/Liverpool, etc. fans around the world. Yes of course rival supporters might read stuff about their rivals but they wouldnt read more about Utd because they have more of an interest in Utd as a club. That is my point - I think we are going around in circles a bit here and actually are disagreeing on very little.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Other than the issues regarding jealousy of the success of the club, the like for which bayern will get in germany, Juve will have in italy etc, it's because we have the largest fanbase we also by and large have the largest amount of glory supporters, similar to Madrid. Its that perception that our fanbase is somehow less worthy, because there's been no hardship over the last 20 odd years of domination.

In 20 years time, lets say we do a liverpool to make a point, and chelsea dominate for 2 decades, a lot of our plastic support would fall off, and that perception would fade away onto whoever is currently dominating as the new kids growing up and swing fans will disproportionately flock to who is successful, its just how things are, people are attracted to success. Much like bandwagoning in the NBA, i know so many cleveland fans who wouldnt even bother watching basketball if Lebron wasn't there, which gives the fans who actually support the team through ups and mostly downs a bad rap. I'ts the same with united.

PS: Football fans being tribal will always say "x teams fans are pure scum, worst of the worst" like we commonly talk about liverpool or chelsea fans. whereas the reality is that every fanbase carry's a nasty underbelly that rivals will latch onto the peg the whole group.

 

[Winrar]

we've been in the top and winning for so long other rival clubs hate us simply pure of jealousy. I think that this is still the case despite us not being as good in recent years, because no club has really been able to take advantage of our downfall for a prolonged period of time and take our spot as the #1.

 

[thoward]

I have a colleague who winds me up about United fans and where they're from. Curiously, he's from Ipswich and supports Leeds. Of all the Liverpool fans I work with not one is from England, let alone the city itself. The City fan is from Scotland, the Spurs fan is from Coventry, the Coventry fan is from Dublin, as is the Chelsea fan. The Arsenal fan should support QPR and the West Ham fan is from Brighton.

Yeah, years ago you'd have celebrities like Rory McGrath, an Arsenal fan from Kent, making a big issue of United fans not coming from Manchester.

 

[balaks]

Yeah, years ago you'd have celebrities like Rory McGrath, an Arsenal fan from Kent, making a big issue of United fans not coming from Manchester.

To be fair, it's a global game and the Premiership is supported all over the world so actually when you look at the numbers, there are MANY MANY more Utd fans in the world that have probably never been to Manchester than there are Utd fans from Manchester. You could say the same about a lot of clubs.

 

[KVDP]

Why does a large quantity of water look blue?

You bring out the worst in fans all over the world.

 

[jackofalltrades]

Why does a large quantity of water look blue?

You bring out the worst in fans all over the world.

Only a Liverpool fan would say the Irish Sea is blue.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Only because there are more articles being written about utd - which again brings me to the media focusing almost exclusively on Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and to a lesser degree Arsenal.

I just don't think this is true though. Take the BBC website as a microcosm of the internet.

A lot of opposition fans complained for months that United was being focused on too much. So the BBC allowed comments on every Premier League game recently. Any article on United still has well over 3-4 times more comments than an article on any other club.

Most non-United related articles turn in to 'can't believe it, an article that isn't about Man Utd', when in fact ironically making the comment section turn into commenting on the club they supposedly don't want to talk about.