Roberto Martinez - Myth or Magician?

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Or somewhere in-between.

At the weekend i was listening to what became a rather polarised discussion about his management of Wigan, and "myth" was one such label for the reputation he has come by.

When compared to Steve Bruce's tenure he falls short if your measure is league position and points tally. Whilst it is perhaps exciting to make these late surges in spring which can defeat clubs high and low in the standings, the season does actually begin in August.

With nine years in the top flight and the income therein, should Martinez and the club be so commended for escaping relegation year after year?

The media do love a darling i suppose.

 

[Buchan]

Discussed quite a bit here: https://www.redcafe.net/f7/wigan-364169/

I'm a big fan of Martinez and Wigan so maybe I'm not the best fella to ask.

 

[ciderman9000000]

I went to Wigan once.

 

[Castia]

Good manager. I think he's working miracles keeping Wigan up with little or no budget and he still manages to play decent football. He got the ball rolling at Swansea with the style of football they play and Brendan Rogers owes him big time for that. Probably why he would have been Liverpool manager in the summer if he accepted the job.

Probably time to move on if he keeps Wigan up again this season, can see him at a club like Everton (if Moyes leaves) or Newcastle in the near future.

 

[Talking Vulture]

Pardew has 8 (EIGHT) years there!

 

[Dumbstar]

Myth until he does something Owen Coyle and Neil Warnock have been famous for in the past: keeping clubs up as long as possible.

I don't find Wigan playing the brand of football Swansea have under Rodgers or Laudrup, despite getting 120% of the credit for it. Discussion to be continued when he finally moves out of his comfort zone, i.e. Everton/Newcastle as mentioned above.

 

[Brwned]

What's the myth surrounding Martinez? That he's a decent manager who does well to keep a tiny club in the Premier League? I don't see the media lavishing praise on him all the time.

 

[acnumber9]

Mythgician.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

What's the myth surrounding Martinez? That he's a decent manager who does well to keep a tiny club in the Premier League? I don't see the media lavishing praise on him all the time.

Are the resources at his disposal so very different from other clubs or his predecessor? Norwich, Swansea and West Brom from the 11/12 season for instance.

 

[Far Too Late]

I went to Wigan once.

I stay there often when working there. The pie shop on Orrell Road has kept me fueled many a time - the Doner Kebab pies are to die for.


I am very much an adherent to the doctrine that Martinez will only be any good if he starts getting his teams to play for the first 80% of the season too. He is also one of those managers who seem strangely immune from press criticism, no matter the results. If he does get relegated, you know that it will be because of lack of funds/ambition of the board, not any managerial shortcoming.

 

[Brwned]

Are the resources at his disposal so very different from other clubs or his predecessor? Norwich, Swansea and West Brom from the 11/12 season for instance.

I think he has the same resources as Bruce did but then didn't everyone agree Bruce did a good job, hence him going to a bigger club?

 

[NotoriousISSY]

His net spend at Wigan is around -£10m isn't it?

Keeping them in the league might not appear too ambitious, but he's only ever had one season of serious spending by Wigan's standards which came in at around £7m.

He does a good job given the restrictions and I reckon he's got enough tactical nous about him to step up through the spectrum. How many PL managers would have the balls to implement a 3 man defence and then see it lead to victories over Liverpool, Stoke, Arsenal, United and Newcastle (last season)?

They've lost Diame, Rodallega, Valencia, N'Zogbia, Moses and Lee Cattermole over the last 3/4 years too. It's not an easy job despite what appear to be very low targets. It's a difficult club to manage (for anyone) considering 1) It's a Rugby town and 2) Manchester United are based about 20 miles away.

 

[sincher]

He has done well, in general.

 

[Drainy]

He's a very good manager at getting the best out of fairly mediocre players and forming a decent team.

His 'big money' signings have been mostly terrible though. He's still only young so I'm sure he'll improve at judging players as he gets more experience.

 

[Drifter]

I''l have to say myth , if he can actually improve the team and finish in midtable ,instead of fighting of relegation season after season,then i might say Magician.

 

[SilentWitness]

They hardly ever draw.
If they were able to turn some of their defeats into draws they wouldn't have to go on a superhero dash to the finish every season.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

I''l have to say myth , if he can actually improve the team and finish in midtable ,instead of fighting of relegation season after season,then i might say Magician.

Is being forced into selling your best player(s) every summer not a factor in their inability to progress?

 

[Dumbstar]

How f*cking good were that Basle team tonight against Spurs? Top notch passing.

Well done Roberto Martinez for laying the foundations.

(tongue out of cheek)

 

[RK]

They hardly ever draw.
If they were able to turn some of their defeats into draws they wouldn't have to go on a superhero dash to the finish every season.

I'd say drawing rarely is a good thing. Taking more risks when the scores are level will reap rewards in the long term. But perhaps they give up too easily when they go behind, I haven't watched much of Wigan so your judgement will be better than mine.

 

[I'm always right]

Did someone say Doner Kebab pies? What the flying feck?!

 

[SilentWitness]

I'd say drawing rarely is a good thing. Taking more risks when the scores are level will reap rewards in the long term. But perhaps they give up too easily when they go behind, I haven't watched much of Wigan so your judgement will be better than mine.

They fail to capitalise on their chances which they create. The only times that they are thumped in defeats really is against the top teams, and otherwise they will only be beaten by a goal, sometimes in high scoring games. They rarely have 0-0 draws if at all which is good but at the bottom, a draw can sometimes save you, even though wins are much more profitable down there.

 

[Buchan]

How f*cking good were that Basle team tonight against Spurs? Top notch passing.

Well done Roberto Martinez for laying the foundations.

(tongue out of cheek)

Somebody is fairly tetchy regarding Martinez. Poor little Brendan not getting the praise you think he deserves for continuing the fantastic work of Jackett, Martinez and Sousa, no?

 

[Cevno]

Undecided on him tbh. Don't think they play particularly great football, his bigger signings have been pretty poor, but he's kept them up on minimal budget for a while so fair play. Think he is just achieving par or above par at Wigan, nothing special.

He did a good job at Swansea though, but would like to see him outside a job where nothing is at stake for him upto an extent and with more resources and pressure before finally deciding.

 

[Sixpence]

I think he's potentially a very good manager, although it's hard to judge. He is destined for better things than at Wigan. He's had hardly any money to spend, yet keeps them up year on year playing a decent level of football. I like him as a bloke and he knows the English game inside out as he's played at all the lower levels in England. He's got a very good knowledge of players and how he wants them to fit into his system.

 

[Snow]

Are the resources at his disposal so very different from other clubs or his predecessor? Norwich, Swansea and West Brom from the 11/12 season for instance.

They have no fan support for instance. That surely would help in the games against smaller teams. WBA and Swansea have done very well this season but last season the difference was 4 points. Norwich finished with 3 more points and currently the difference is 4 points with Wigan having a game in hand.

Obvious difference in teams is the defense. On paper they probably have the worst back 4 in the league and a manager that's better at organizing attacking football. I don't know who their defensive coach is but a couple of sturdy defenders could do wonders for them in terms of taking that next step.

 

[finneh]

Are the resources at his disposal so very different from other clubs or his predecessor? Norwich, Swansea and West Brom from the 11/12 season for instance.

It's a slight myth that they spend much less than other teams, mainly because they have a horrifically low turnover. However they still spend quite a bit on wages in comparison with other teams, because their wage-turnover ratio has historically been sky-high (80-100%).

For instance in the 09-10 and 10-11 seasons they spent the 16th most on wages and both times finished 16th, which is par for the course.

Every season they finish roughly where their wage bill/squad says they should finish. The reason Martinez is a decent manager is because he achieves what he should achieve, whilst playing good Football (for the squad they have). Also their flourishes at the end of the season make them more entertaining.

This season their wage bill is higher than Reading and Swansea, at a similar level to Southampton and Norwich. Therefore they are again achieving roughly what their wage bill would suggest - 17th.

The teams "overachieving" in comparison to their wage bill/what they spend are the likes of Swansea, Norwich, Southampton, Fulham, United, Everton, Spurs - underachieving would be Villa, QPR, Liverpool, Sunderland and Chelsea with the rest there or thereabouts.

 

[Carl]

How f*cking good were that Basle team tonight against Spurs? Top notch passing.

Well done Roberto Martinez for laying the foundations.

(tongue out of cheek)

Is there anything Liverpool fans aren't bitter about?

 

[Carl]

I'd love to know where all the money goes at Wigan. Seeing as they've been earning Premiership TV revenue for so long, never spend on transfers and apparently have a tiny wage budget.

As for Martinez, he's doing a good job. We simply won't know how good of a job until he moves on though.

 

[Far Too Late]

Having spent many a night in Wigan, the thing that does strike one is the preponderance of people wearing football shirts. Unfortunately the shirts are all red and white - Wigan is a rugby league town that lends it's ground to the association football club when they are not using it.

 

[Dumbstar]

Somebody is fairly tetchy regarding Martinez. Poor little Brendan not getting the praise you think he deserves for continuing the fantastic work of Jackett, Martinez and Sousa, no?

Just trying to stay relevant, innit.

 

[Dumbstar]

Is there anything Liverpool fans aren't bitter about?

European Cups

 

[Carl]

Well I suppose it's difficult to be bitter about something you're never in...

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Well I suppose it's difficult to be bitter about something you're never in...

I guess they are all bitter about jobs too then.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

I'd love to know where all the money goes at Wigan. Seeing as they've been earning Premiership TV revenue for so long, never spend on transfers and apparently have a tiny wage budget.

Victor Moses £9m
Lee Cattermole £6m
N'Zogbia £9.5M
Valencia £16M
Palacios £12M


That is a good question, how many clubs of comparable size have turned a profit on players like Wigan in recent years? Add to that the 100s of millions they've received by way of the TV revenue. Rather a question for Whelan than Martinez i grant.

 

[Buchan]

Swansea have performed pretty well in the transfer market of late, but a lot of that is down to Rodgers spunking obscene money on Joe Allen.

 

[SilentWitness]

Sold Sinclair to City for around £8 million too. If rumours are to be believed Rodgers might buy Williams from Swansea and they should get a decent fee for him if he goes.

It will surely be either McArthur or McCarthy from Wigan that will leave this year. Maybe Di Santo will be on some peoples radars too, but i don't rate him that highly.

I suppose that might be another reason people think Martinez would do well at Everton. Both clubs have to sell one player each year to fund transfers. Both clubs traditionally start poorly and finish well (We bucked that trend this year). Both clubs play decent football. Yes, contrary to what many believe i think we can play some of the best football in the league when we really want to, but we have two big men in Fellaini and Anichebe so utilise them to great help.

 

[elisha27]

One of the best coaches/tacticians in the league, but one of the weaker man managers. Because of that, he certainly has a higher ceiling than the likes of Bruce, despite their comparable points totals.

I think he'd make a very strong number 2 at a top club, but I'm not sure that's in his plans.

 

[alastair]

McCarthy seems very highly rated by managers in the game, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a move to a pretty decent club in the summer. Maybe Arsenal or Spurs or even United.

 

[.Phil1968]

Breaking news on Sky he's left Wigan.Everton bound ?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Yeah he will be off to Everton. It was obvious that was going to happen since Moyes was announced next United boss.