And a big part of that mess has been hoovered up including the constant in our failure leaving his role as of Feb 1st.
Rome wasn't built in a day
- Thread starter VP89
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You need to work on managerial highlights better if thats what you're going to conclude from Rangnick.
In terms of the owners impact on the field, they can really only do two things.
Firstly - make funds available to buy the players we want. They have generally done this.
Secondly - have the right people in place under them to make sure the team is run properly. This is obviously what they have done terribly so far, but there are a lot of changes happening at the moment. Woodward is leaving and being replaced by Richard Arnold, and it appears at the moment that Arnold is going to be less involved in the footballing side of things and leaving it more to Murtough and Fletcher. Those two have in turn then head-hunted Rangnick not just to be the interim manager for the rest of this season, but perhaps more importantly to be a consultant to help Murtough and Fletcher build a better system from the top down over the next couple of years.
Whether it actually works or not is another story, but this is probably the first time since Fergie left that it looks like we're trying to be smarter about how we do this.
and that's the problem with RR he looks even more clueless as to what he's doing and he's meant to be this coaching visionary
The previous regime (and I extend that to Carrick's few games) got way more out of this squad than RR has thus far
The previous regime made no difficult decisions to build for the long term though, so for all of Rangnicks shortcomings, I think its clear he is trying to implement the right methods in the squad but it needs tinkering.
He has it against him because the player mentality is poor thanks to Ole, the player understanding of coaching was poor thanks to Ole, and there is a huge number of people wanting out because they were led on that they would play, again thanks to Ole.
Rangnick is doing a hard reset and has to try and pick up results along the way. Its ridiculously tough to implement.
I get what you mean, even though it’s somewhat a strange title.
We are not going to get a quick fix, that’s for sure. We are a football circus and we got a lot of clowns that need to be fixed or replaced.
I hope for us, fans, that we get at least one midfielder in now. It’s not enough, but it would help us a great deal.
Another poster mentioned that we would look a lot better with Tielemans and one of the defensive/hard working midfielders Rangnick trusts.
Probably not going to happen this month, but it would help us in the right direction.
I am firmly behind Rangnick. The man has the best and worst job in football. I trust him to find his way and I believe he will.
We are not going to get a quick fix, that’s for sure. We are a football circus and we got a lot of clowns that need to be fixed or replaced.
I hope for us, fans, that we get at least one midfielder in now. It’s not enough, but it would help us a great deal.
Another poster mentioned that we would look a lot better with Tielemans and one of the defensive/hard working midfielders Rangnick trusts.
Probably not going to happen this month, but it would help us in the right direction.
I am firmly behind Rangnick. The man has the best and worst job in football. I trust him to find his way and I believe he will.
Could even be fixed in a few days if we got our act together.
This ^
We won't ever win the league title or CL again under the Glazers. Our time is done until we get rid of them.
But at least Rome started building. We can't even buy a 6 million euro midfielder that we desperately need. This club is a complete mess and they keep pulling the wool over fans eyes.
It's not clear he's trying to implement the right things at all and that's the problem. A 4222 is clearly not the right thing to try and implement with the squad he's inherited something he's now thankfully realised but also something that was obvious from day one
And that's just one of the obvious things he's failed to address straight away the most recent being his ingame management yesterday
These things aren't on the previous regime they're solely on who's making the decisions now and based on how slow he's been to realise these things i wouldn't trust him with any reset
The issue is Rome wasnt broken down to pieces whenever a new ruler came in as well.
That's what has been happening at Utd for the past 8 years. Moyes' football was different from SAF's. LVG's football was different from Moyes', Mou from LVG, Ole from Mou and Rangnick from Ole. For every transition, the players in place have been quite different to what was needed. Now, I'm not going to say each of them left a mess but I would say the side Mou inherited was pretty poor, and the side Ole inherited required significant restructuring as nearly every starter was on their last legs. Similarly, the next manager will have to buy a striker, a couple of midfielders and a RB.
So, if we're going to change direction completely with every manager, we need to show patience and allow them to spend money to make the side their own. While the talent is still there in this side, we need to be acknowledge the fact that some of these highly rated players wont make it here but somewhere else as they might not be fancied by the manager. We need to acknowledge that the manager will get things wrong, there'll be high profile flops and everything that goes on at every other club as well
That's what has been happening at Utd for the past 8 years. Moyes' football was different from SAF's. LVG's football was different from Moyes', Mou from LVG, Ole from Mou and Rangnick from Ole. For every transition, the players in place have been quite different to what was needed. Now, I'm not going to say each of them left a mess but I would say the side Mou inherited was pretty poor, and the side Ole inherited required significant restructuring as nearly every starter was on their last legs. Similarly, the next manager will have to buy a striker, a couple of midfielders and a RB.
So, if we're going to change direction completely with every manager, we need to show patience and allow them to spend money to make the side their own. While the talent is still there in this side, we need to be acknowledge the fact that some of these highly rated players wont make it here but somewhere else as they might not be fancied by the manager. We need to acknowledge that the manager will get things wrong, there'll be high profile flops and everything that goes on at every other club as well
It wasnt obvious from game one. Game one was a better and controlled improvement vs Palace. He continued with it after the covid break but stopped it after Wolves. Up to that game we had won all and drawn one.
By his own admission 4222 wasnt ideal but gave us better defensive foundation to contain the opposition, which he felt was necessary given how easily the team leaked goals.
I agree that his in game management yesterday was poor. I think he recognises that too, so I trust he would adapt to that.
Except there was no process with Ole, ever.
We look no better now than under the previous regime. Probably worse.
So how many processes or faux-processes do we have to trust before we start seeing improvements?
For the 100th time, the previous regime was kicking the can down the road and trying to keep thin skinned players happy.
Ralph is here for a reset. Its going to be more turbulent. And even then our worst under Rangnick is no way as bad as Oles games vs say Wolves, Leicester or Watford.
Oh good, another reset. What joy.
Unless Ralf has the power, in his future role, to sack the entire owner and controlling staff of this club then nothing will change. Much easier watching us these days if you accept we are roughly the 10th best club in the League. Stop lying to yourself and just accept you were lucky enough to be alive to see us as one of the best clubs in the history of the game, and now be happy to watch the new mid-table version of us.
Mourinho was kicking the can down the road and Ole was here was a reset. It’s history repeating.
Our problem was apparently lack of tactics, or so I was told many times on here. Now we’ve got the German gegenpressing mastermind in, it’s a case of ‘oh wait, it’s the players and everyone else’s fault’.
It’s obviously too early to judge but the guy has done nothing so far to suggest he’s going to turn this around. Nothing.
Rome wasn't built in a day? Tell that to Chelsea fans and Thomas Tuchel.
do you really think life we be better after 1 Feb? I really hope so but also really doubt it. We’re so messed up as a football club, i really dont understand what is happening. Owners, executives, manager, coaching staff and players. All dysfunctional
In short it's the structure og power that puts terrible leaders (and culture) in place. Similar problems at United, albeit I think it’s gotten better.
On that note Van der Sar would be a big hit here.
It wasn’t just tactics. It was lack of a coherent style and strategy of play. Players need to be able to play in a way they’ve basically never played before, instinctively. Which is going to take longer than a few weeks to drill into them. And that’s assuming our squad has enough players capable of adapting to playing a more modern pressing game (which is doubtful and pushes out timelines even further)
Tuchel was fortunate in taking over a Chelsea squad stacked full of players who had fairly recent experience of playing exactly the style of football he wanted to play. Our squad is a stodgy mish mash of players who’ve been playing dinosaur football for basically their whole careers.
Why do our fans choose to ignore the obvious?
I agree but when young players can't get consistent results the fans blame the manager. And the players win again. Honestly there's something truly toxic in our squad
Ole was a shit choice for the reset because hes not even a coach. There were a lot of people like myself waiting for him just to get found out. Problem is he bloated the squad and royally fecked up the ability for the next manager to implement a fix.
The colosseum was actually built in a day.
I bet that costs £800The colosseum was actually built in a day.
You're assuming Rangnick is actually capable of implementing what he speaks about, of which you have seen zero evidence at the top level. Having an issue with the players might be justified, but siding with Rangnick is only based on assumption. So far he has shown no improvement, not mentally and not tactically. He has also shown horrible team selections and even worse in game management. Bordering on the criminal with the substitutions actually. Also his management of certain fringe players, like VDB, Martial, Mata and Amad is lacking to say the least. And that's not to mention dropping the main two, and better fullbacks for the others immediately and almost without question.
You could quite easily say Rangnick is a shit choice because he’s never coached at this level. You can also quite easily say there are a lot of people waiting for him to get found out also.
I’m not assuming anything. I’m reserving judgement to give him time to overhaul the way we play football.
I’m also ignoring all the hot air about in game management, substitutions, team selection blah blah blah because ever since I started reading redcafe backseat experts have found reasons to complain about all of the above after every single game we fail to win (and significant amount of games we win as well!). Including all of the games with Fergie in charge.
If we need to completely overhaul the squad to cater to an interim managers preference, then maybe we should have brought someone else on board.
I agree with the sentiment of the thread. RR is trying to change fundementals and that first 45 minutes was the best we've played for a while. Although still not perfect.
The pressing was far better and was done as a team. Elanga showed the energy we'd been missing, Bruno was better when more connected to the midfield and the team was far more compact. Still, we made too many errors on the ball, and that is the ultimate problem.
My criticism of RR yesterday is he should've brought Elanga off for VDB to add more bodies in the middle, when Matic legs went and we lost the plot.
But, he is on a hiding to nothing if we don't get a new CDM. It's plain as day that we need to get one to have a chance at top 4. He knows that, we know that.
The pressing was far better and was done as a team. Elanga showed the energy we'd been missing, Bruno was better when more connected to the midfield and the team was far more compact. Still, we made too many errors on the ball, and that is the ultimate problem.
My criticism of RR yesterday is he should've brought Elanga off for VDB to add more bodies in the middle, when Matic legs went and we lost the plot.
But, he is on a hiding to nothing if we don't get a new CDM. It's plain as day that we need to get one to have a chance at top 4. He knows that, we know that.
Shit choice for what, interim? If so you're view is too short term. He is here to help reshape the club after Woodward leaves on Feb 1st and Murtough gets a much bigger remit.
And he has proven chops in that regard. So no, he's not a shit choice.
I'm actually quite optimistic for the first time in a long time. The Glazers mismanagement along with the advent of Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Newcastle as likely dominant teams has made their top four marketing first strategy unviable. The Glazers now have to run the football side well or else see the value of their investment crumble. They will have to make it work or sell up.
Umm Nero was Caesar...(history pedant klaxon)
We’re not overhauling the squad to cater to an interim manager’s preference. We’re overhauling it so we can start to approach matches in the same way as all the most successful clubs around. A change in approach that is long overdue, with an interim manager better qualified than anyone else I can think of to get the ball rolling.
This is a shift that 90% of the caf seemed to be fully behind until a handful of mediocre performances/results (either side of a covid outbreak in our squad) has caused everyone to shit the bed and demand we start over again.
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But I thought the whole idea of bringing in Rangnick was for him to assist the club in buying players in a more cohesive way than we've been doing. So it's not having a squad overhaul to cater to an interim manager, per se, it's more to do with imporving this clubs recritment policy under his guidance. We should be starting that process now. Otherwise, what's the point in bringing him in.
Yeah, people expecting a big improvement are probably overrating the players.
People have been saying for a long time that our owners and the senior management staff know nothing (or don’t know enough) about how to create and sustain a winning football club.
This Building of Rome business is a big job and doesn’t happen in a day but you have to look at who is building it. Everyone involved has to know their job and do it well or the roofs won’t get finished before the walls start to crumble.
People have been saying for a long time that our owners and the senior management staff know nothing (or don’t know enough) about how to create and sustain a winning football club.
This Building of Rome business is a big job and doesn’t happen in a day but you have to look at who is building it. Everyone involved has to know their job and do it well or the roofs won’t get finished before the walls start to crumble.
While that is true about supporter analysis when we fail to win, you have to admit the evidence is starting to accumulate. I hope he turns it around but many other clubs wouldn't allow him that privilege after this start.