I don't get it. Ronaldo only played against the Netherlands with Stam and de boer and France with Lizarazu, Desailly, Thuram and Blanc and he only scored once against the Netherlands.
No, I meant Brazilian Ronaldo was only 19 when he played with Figo during his peak, so it is absolutely fine to be comparing him to a 21 year old C Ronaldo playing for Portugal.
Really? Are you that thick or what? You don't see 30-40% gap difference in Ronaldo/Messi era, but you only see the 0% to few % gap difference in R9 era? There is no noticeable difference between R9 and other top goalscorer over his career active period in terms of goalscoring, you only want to do 2 prime years period comparison only? and ignore the rest? or even only limited the criteria to pre-injury period only, exclude other players prime seasons in unfair manner with R9 injury as cut-off line, even they are only few years apart? Why need to do that? Really?
Heh. Changes in rules made football more attack-oriented in general. Inter's gameplan with Ronaldo revolved around "sit-deep, defend, and let Ronaldo win by himself"
The one thing you're failing to consider when doing these comparisons is L. Ronaldo's age. You are comparing his 20-22 years old period with other's absolute prime years, of which he was robbed of by injury. It is not difficult to speculate that he would have increased the gap over his peers had he not been so absolutely ruined by his knee injuries, especially when you consider he still maintained a similar level to them despite the injuries.
Yeh I get what you mean, Owen could have been best player in his era when we are watching him playing as 20-22 years old, Jones could have been new Edwards, Bale could have emulated Ronaldo, heck even Morrison could have been better payer than Pogba.
But that's what I'm saying, it did happen, inspite of terrible injuries he was still one of the best players in the world for an extended period, but was never able to reach his true potential because of said injuries.
Sure, but I am not saying those players will become GOAT type of players. But they all could have been better players, with better career, if not for injuries or other factors too. We never know. For a start, we never know how consistent the exciting young player could have performed been over time, or length of peak young exciting players could have maintained, with or without injury. That can never been foreseen judging from raw talents or potential, or sample of few years top or worldclass performance alone. Sometimes, exiting young talent or world beaters, who start their career brightly, may regress over time too (Owen, Balotelli, Denilson, Robinho, Pato etc). Also, opponents could have study his game well over time, and man-marked him more effectively which may limited his performances in later years etc. Its not that simple and straightforward. There's reason why there are so few names in football history who could maintained their peak for so long.
So instead of basing this discussion what what happened, you’re basing it on what could have been?
What are you talking about? I was merely pointing out that comparing a 20 year old L. Ronaldo to a 24/25 year old Shevchenko, Batistuta, Signori or a 29 year old Inzaghi isn't really a fair comparison. And on top of that, it's simply comparing goal scoring stats when there's far more to consider when looking at a player like Ronaldo.
But he maintained world class performances, unlike the others. That is how good he was.
In Serie A he joined a poor team and spent his first season adapting but still came second in the scoring charts. In his second season the injuries started. He barely played at the beginning and really only got a run of matches at the end where he was scoring at a rate of one a game, at a time when that didn't happen. Then in the third season his knee went and that was the end.
You are missing the point mate. Fenomeno was THAT good. Those things DID happen. He torn apart 3 leagues in his teens and was head and shoulders above the rest. At the same time he was tearing it for the national team as well. Cristiano never reached his level internationally, that's not debatable. Fenomeno has scored 15 goals in 15 games at the WC. And not even the peak one, but the marred with injuries in 02 and the fat one in 06. Cristiano has 7 in 17 and zero in KO stages. It is what it is.
That's pretty much it. Cristiano Ronaldo's (rightfully) legendary status isn't based on his peak performances but on his ridiculous consistency. The most impressive aspect about him in fact are his statistics. It is an incredible achievement to maintain this level for so long and it is his way to overcome many other greats who were generally better football players than him but his peak for me was in his last United and first Madrid years. And yes, those were thrilling performances but not Fenomeno type of staff.
Inter was a mess at the time Ronaldo joined. They changed 4 managers in the course of a year. Had only two top players reaching, or at their peak - Zanetti and Djorkaeff. In all those Inter games, Ronaldo was the whole attack. He had partners like and Ganz, Branca. People cite Zamorano but he only managed 13 games in his first season, Kanu 11, Recoba barely managed a couple.
Ronaldo 25
Youri Djorkaeff 8
Diego Simeone 6
Álvaro Recoba 3Aye, I'm not even debating who will go down as the greater player. Cristiano is streets ahead in his fitness level and consistency over the years. He might as well have the best club career for a player alongside Di Stefano, Pele, Messi, Cruyff, Beckenbauer and Muller..
We already did all the comparison already, pre-injury, post injury, peak years, over his whole career.
Cristiano was never number 9 for Portugal, and Portugal wasn't ever near as good as Brazil.
Was this the season when he got outscored from Oliver Bierhoff, who was playing for the mighty Udinese?I agree with you and I will copy/paste a post I wrote in 2017 to feed the discussion
Serie A Context
97/98: Ronaldo scored 40 goals with Inter Milan - all competitions - with a dysfunctional team (for many reasons). Zamorano & Djorkaeff were able to score some goals but let's be clear: the only offensive threat was Ronaldo. No collective play. Add the fact that refereeing has changed since (except France) to protect talented players subject to assaults. Seria A was the best league in Europe.
Top scorers Inter Milan in Serie A - 1997-98
98/02 - 4 seasons - he scored 24 goals with Inter in 40 games only because of 2 main major injuries.
Despite these major injuries - resulting in a decline of his capacities - he scored 9 goals in 10 games with Brazil and won the WC in 2002.
2002/06: he was still a high-performing striker with Real: 83 goals + 18 assists in 127 LaLiga games.
#Context
It was just a list to highlight the general gulf in class of defenders back then compared to the 2010s
You are certainly entitled to speculate, in fact, go open a thread on "what could have happened" regarding L Ronaldo and/or any other player who had their career cut short for whatever reason.
That’s the power of extrapolation cal, there’s a fairly large sample size to base the opinion off.
That kind of extrapolation serves nothing, it's a bit like Germany and Japan would have won WWII based on the ease they conquered France and NE China respectively.
Quite possibly the most unexpected analogy of all time
You've got me wrong, I am saying that L.Ronaldo at his absolute best (that we got to see) was better than the best version of C.Ronaldo, and he more than likely would have become even better had he not picked up the serious injuries.
He was great at 20, therefore he must be even better at 25, despite the fact plenty of players never hit the same heights they did earlier in their career.Quite possibly the most unexpected analogy of all time
Do please specify which season or which period this supposedly amazing Luiz Ronaldo played? His Barca season or his Inter season?
Yeah, but he is not going against the mighty Oliver Bierhoff (for Udinese).
The two seasons you've mentioned, at Barcelona and Inter. Where both teams weren't even in the CL so how do expect him to win it? But guess what, they did win the European competitions they were in.
Top goalscorers in Serie A for Juve this season...Inter was a mess at the time Ronaldo joined. They changed 4 managers in the course of a year. Had only two top players reaching, or at their peak - Zanetti and Djorkaeff. In all those Inter games, Ronaldo was the whole attack. He had partners like and Ganz, Branca. People cite Zamorano but he only managed 13 games in his first season, Kanu 11, Recoba barely managed a couple.
Ronaldo didn't have a solid partner, practically he was the star and had to do everything in attack whilst the managers were throwing names in the line up next to him.
If you look at the goalscorers that season:
Serie A[edit]
That's how big the gap was between him and everyone else in attack.
They had a clown at helm as well - Simoni - who after his stint at Inter got sacked in his next 7 jobs in a row and never made it past the second year in management.
If you take all this into account, the quality of Serie A, the team that Juve had(probably the best in their entire history), managed by Lippi non the less, quality spread all throughout the teams, with managerial names like Capello, Zeman, Ancelotti, Boskov, Guidolin, Spalletti and how poor that Inter team was, Fenomeno was doing something phenomenal at the time(pun intended).
After a winter slump, he himself raised the team to mount a challenge and should have won the title that year. Goals against Atalanta, Milan, Vicenza, Sampdoria, 2 against Roma at Olimpico, Udinese led to the deciding fixture against Juve where this happened:
perhaps one of the biggest robberies in the 90's.
Inter were hard done, which led to losing point at home to Piacenza and Bari(with Ronaldo opening the score there).
So, yes, there is a reason for the Seria A argument. Personally if Inter did pull that Scudetto that would be probably the greatest individual achievement I've seen for a player in a season so far. Also bear in mind it was Fenomeno's first season there, coming from Spain and Holland - two very different leagues previously. It didn't really matter for him of course, he hit the ground running everywhere he went at his peak..
You really don't think that was a foul? I don't see how it can't be considered a foul.
