Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

SCP

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Nani was really bad in Euro 2012 actually, probably his worst international tournament. Varela was better than him :lol: Bruno Alves was fantastic, probably our second best player after Ronaldo.

We had a decent core of 4 players and then mediocrity everywhere else though. I mean, just look at this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_squads#Portugal
Nani had a good game vs the Netherlands but people made it look he had a awfull game because he missed a clear chance.

Varela only had impact as a sub vs Denmark or Germany. Or are you saying it was only because Ronaldo exists we had a good tournament?

He missed a goal in front of the keeper vs Denmark and no one will say he had a bad tournament.

Anyway this is for another thread, but there is no need to make others look shit to make one great. Moral of the story. It works for both sides.
 

RochaRoja

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This debate is a joke. I swear the amount bald Ronaldo gets praised sometimes is so ridiculous. Are you only going to compare peaks of players now? Even in that case, think of what a peak CR7 could do. Everything the Brazilian could do and more.

I get that Ronaldo was a childhood icon for many of us but let's not get carried away.
Ronaldo is clearly an exception as his peak was when he was a teenager and in his early twenties. His knee injuries meant that that was the only period where the world got to see him at his best.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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What do people have as CR7's peak generally?

I know most people will point to his 2011-2012 version in Real's record breaking season, but I prefer his 2016-2017 version.

Individually, he's a worse player, but he becomes a more effective player for your team. His strengths are more emphasized and weaknesses hidden more-so.
 

Isotope

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Fenomeno played in much inferior teams. He probably had a quarter of the shots on goal Cristiano had per game. Many pros consider Fenomeno as the hardest to play against and defend against:

“My favourite Brazilian footballer of all time is Ronaldo. I was fortunate enough to play against him many times, and I was lucky enough to play against him before he got those serious injuries that affected his career. He was a formidable player, a sensational player. He was sort of like an alien because of what he could do on the pitch. The fact that a footballer like him is not remembered as the best player of all time is a great tragedy in my opinion. He had all the skills he needed to be the best ever”

Gianluigi Buffon

“The best player I have seen in my career.”

— Clarence Seedorf

“What made Ronaldo different was his sheer physical strength. He is the best I have played with.”

— Luis Figo

“Ronaldo Nazário was, without doubt, the best striker I’ve ever seen. What I saw him do was spectacular, and that was having come to the club after a World Cup and having been sidelined for two years before that with a knee injury.”

— Michel Salgado

“I was in Spain when he was playing for Barcelona, and I can tell everybody that he was one of the best. He was impossible to mark, he had an acceleration that made him difficult to stop, he was scoring goals for fun, he was doing things that the rest couldn’t do. He was the special player during my time in Spain.”

— Gus Poyet

Ronaldo, the phenomenon, was the greatest player I have ever coached

Fabio Capello

The best player I have ever played with? That’s Ronaldo, il Fenomeno. I have seen il Fenomeno do things that nobody else has ever done

Kaka

I’ve never seen a player able to show such precise control at such a high speed. Watching him was like watching a character in a video game.”
— Marcel Desailly

Without hesitation, Ronaldo is the best player I ever played with. He had such an ease with the ball. He is number one. Every day I trained with him, I saw something different, something new, something beautiful. That’s what makes the difference between a very good player, and the exception, who, for me, is Ronaldo

Zinedine Zidane

When I was younger, the way the Brazilian Ronaldo played had an influence on me. For me he’s the best striker and the best player of all-time. I watch videos of him, and try to do what he does, but it’s not easy. It’s impossible to pull off the same moves as he did

Karim Benzema

“The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo when we faced Internazionale in the 1998 UEFA Cup Final in Paris. He’s an incredible player. I have watched that game on video so many times since then, trying to work out what I did wrong. We lost 3-0 but I don’t think now it was my fault. Ronaldo was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”

–Alessandro Nesta


Most of those players played/coached Cristiano as well. Even teammates in the national team like Figo always had Fenomeno in higher regard.
“What made Ronaldo different was his sheer physical strength. He is the best I have played with.”
— Luis Figo


Figo quit NT in 2006, when Ronaldo was only 21 y.o.

And others like Zidane, Salgado, Desailly, etc. were playing when Ronaldo was a young player also.
 

RochaRoja

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Sure I grow up watching Brazilian Ronaldo. At his peak he was breathtaking to watch, people even said at that time he has the potential to match Pele and Maradona. But thing is, people nowadays only remember the best part of past greats, and conveniently ignore all those meh performances he has had. I have watched many average performances from Brazilian Ronaldo throughout his career too. For example, I still remember Ruud and Henry, imho, was clearly better forward than Brazilian Ronaldo in large part of his career. Let's not pretend it didn't happen.

If we all remember Michael Owen only in his early 20's, and forget the remaining large part of his career, he is an amazing player too.
Van Nistelrooy and Owen weren’t even on the same planet as Ronaldo. It’s like comparing Kane or Cavani with Messi.
 

Enigma_87

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“What made Ronaldo different was his sheer physical strength. He is the best I have played with.”
— Luis Figo


Figo quit NT in 2006, when Ronaldo was only 21 y.o.

And others like Zidane, Salgado, Desailly, etc. were playing when Ronaldo was a young player also.

The Portuguese footballer has had the pleasure of playing with the pair, but believes Brazilian Ronaldo has the edge in front of goal

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7645...ristiano-ronaldo-vs-brazilian-ronaldo-debate/

It's not only the best he played with, he said on multiple times later on that Fenomeno is the best of all time to him.
 

Schneckerl

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What do people have as CR7's peak generally?

I know most people will point to his 2011-2012 version in Real's record breaking season, but I prefer his 2016-2017 version.

Individually, he's a worse player, but he becomes a more effective player for your team. His strengths are more emphasized and weaknesses hidden more-so.
2012/13, was better vs strong teams than in 11/12
 

Isotope

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The Portuguese footballer has had the pleasure of playing with the pair, but believes Brazilian Ronaldo has the edge in front of goal

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7645...ristiano-ronaldo-vs-brazilian-ronaldo-debate/

It's not only the best he played with, he said on multiple times later on that Fenomeno is the best of all time to him.
He played with a 21 y.o. CRonaldo. I don't know how you can compare playing with a 21 y.o. player with a peak Fenomeno.

And the link you provide, saying that Figo believed Fenomeno is the best "in front of the goal". He's never saying he's the best player. And as proven so many times, CRonaldo is not just a striker.
 

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What do people have as CR7's peak generally?

I know most people will point to his 2011-2012 version in Real's record breaking season, but I prefer his 2016-2017 version.

Individually, he's a worse player, but he becomes a more effective player for your team. His strengths are more emphasized and weaknesses hidden more-so.
Personally prefer his ballon d’or season with us to anything he did with Madrid. Tougher league, playing further from goal and all over the frontline, his 42 goals that season is as impressive as 60 for real. He was the most exciting player in the world, worthy of the admission fee home and away for 9 months straight.
 

Enigma_87

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He played with a 21 y.o. CRonaldo. I don't know how you can compare playing with a 21 y.o. player with a peak Fenomeno.
The interview is from 2012 and then he has made more comments recently that Fenomeno is the best he's seen, not just played with.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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2012/13, was better vs strong teams than in 11/12
You think so?

He wasn't very good against us in 2013 though he did score in both legs. Was fairly ineffective against Dortmund.

He did have good Clasicos though. Hard to ignore his title sealing goal at the Nou Camp in 2012.
 

Peyroteo

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What do people have as CR7's peak generally?

I know most people will point to his 2011-2012 version in Real's record breaking season, but I prefer his 2016-2017 version.

Individually, he's a worse player, but he becomes a more effective player for your team. His strengths are more emphasized and weaknesses hidden more-so.
2013 and 2014 were his peak years until the moment he got that knee injury.

He was better than in 2011/12 then.
 

Skills

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Anyone know why the club was wasting their time on Shearer while this guy was available? He would've been Fergie's perfect CF (or anyone's by that matter really), but I don't think we ever showed interest in the 90s.
 

Isotope

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The interview is from 2012 and then he has made more comments recently that Fenomeno is the best he's seen, not just played with.
Well then he's wrong. No right minded football fan would put Fenomeno as the best he's seen.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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2013 and 2014 were his peak years until the moment he got that knee injury.

He was better than in 2011/12 then.
I remember he was on an unreal goal-scoring run before he suffered that knee injury.

Still adapted brilliantly afterwards.
 

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You know Figo played with Cristiano until 2006 right? No shit was R9 better than that ffs.

If we’re going for great players’ quotes to settle arguments then who better than quoting the two greatest ever in Maradona and Pelé?

You can quote them when they said one thing and I’ll quote them when they said the exact opposite 2 weeks later.

Seriously? Players’ quotes? And no, most of them do not watch the games. I’m 100% sure I’m more qualified to give an opinion on Ronaldo’s performances at Juve so far than the likes of Figo or Kaka.


Taking peyroteo off ignore never ever seems to disappoint. He’s either the most arrogant fan in the history of the sport, or a genuine member of the Ronaldo entourage.
 

Lay

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Anyone know why the club was wasting their time on Shearer while this guy was available? He would've been Fergie's perfect CF (or anyone's by that matter really), but I don't think we ever showed interest in the 90s.
They were interested I believe. But they couldn’t afford him
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Anyone know why the club was wasting their time on Shearer while this guy was available? He would've been Fergie's perfect CF (or anyone's by that matter really), but I don't think we ever showed interest in the 90s.
Don't think Ronaldo would have been interested playing in England.

Serie A was the more glamorous league then.
 

Peyroteo

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2012/13, was better vs strong teams than in 11/12
Don’t think so.

2011/12 he was a monster in the run in to the title. Scored an insane hattrick away to Atlético followed by the Calma goal at the Camp Nou right after.

He was great vs Bayern in the CL semis too and then in the Euros right after.

2013/14 edges it though, I’m convinced they win the treble if he doesn’t get that injury.
 

Lay

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Taking peyroteo off ignore never ever seems to disappoint. He’s either the most arrogant fan in the history of the sport, or a genuine member of the Ronaldo entourage.
:lol: majority of his posts even in non Ronaldo threads are just ways to make Cristiano look better. It’s actually scary.
 

Peyroteo

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The interview is from 2012 and then he has made more comments recently that Fenomeno is the best he's seen, not just played with.
He’s said C.Ronaldo is the best multiple times on Portuguese TV. He’s also said Messi is the best multiple times.

Figo doesn’t really care about any of that, he barely follows the sport. There was a big interview a while ago where he said he hadn’t watched a game on TV for years.
 

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R9 had more natural talent. He was faster, stronger, a better dribbler and more creative. CR sculpted himself into the better player. He didn't have the same insane attributes, but he honed them and became one of the best players ever. R9 is more of a could have been, or at best what he was for a briefer period.

Heck, I'd argue Giggs had more natural talent than CR9. He was faster, much better body control and a better dribbler.

CR9 wins you matches. We loved him for his dribbling and runs when at United, but his game has perpetually evolved into a game winner.

So R9 started out better and was more gifted, but Cr7 made himself better.
 

Isotope

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Wasn't Ronaldo only 19 when he played with Figo at his 'peak'?
Yeh maybe. I just checked Figo's last year with NT as possibly the last time they played together.

Turns out according to Portuguese posters, Figo just saying many lip service of who's the best.
 

Isotope

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If you had to pick one it would depend on the team around them.

Ronaldo de Lima was faster, stronger, better at holding up the ball, better ball carrier, better technique, better association with team mates, better passer in terms of final ball delivery and generally made better decisions.

Cristiano Ronaldo is more versatile as he could play on all 3 forward positions although he is not a centre forward. He is also more durable which makes him more dependable over a 60+ games season. He is vastly superior in the air and he would simply give your club more over the course of his contract.

I think the team Ronaldo de Lima would play for would play better football but his injury record was atrocious.

If I had a team that had multiple 'stars' I would pick Ronaldo De Lima.

If I had a team with no superstars, I would pick Cristiano Ronaldo.


The way I like my football being played I would pick Ronaldo de Lima but if all I cared about is winning, I would go with Cristiano Ronaldo.

With multiple superstars, Ronaldo de Lima would link up much better with them and if he gets injured the team would still be okay.

With Cristiano Ronaldo being the only superstar, he can canabalise chances and take 8 to 9 shots a game like he used to do and the team will be in complete service to him which.

If I had to choose one
I'm not sure about that. United and Madrid had many superstars when he got his Ballon D'Ors.
 

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Seriously I didn't wanted to but I have.

https://www.n-tv.pt/fora-de-jogo/ka...-cristiano-para-ver-quantas-vezes-es-noticia/

This link is in Portuguese so the only important thing here is to know Ronaldo sister recently insulted Figo on Instagram because he gave a interview to DAZN where they made this question.

"Cristiano Ronaldo or Fenómeno? No doubts, Fenómeno was better in front of the goal.
About Cristiano? He is able to score more goals from headers than Fenómeno, but both are impressive for me"


I honestly don't know why the opinion of someone who watches football on television is more valuable than someone who played football. Or should I bring here what Mourinho or Queiroz said about the Brazilian Ronaldo? Unless their opinion doesn't matter here because they didn't played the sport. Or whatever that means.
 

MrEleson

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2013 and 2014 were his peak years until the moment he got that knee injury.

He was better than in 2011/12 then.
Really?

I'd say 2014 after the World Cup was his peak. He scored something insane like 20 league goals by October or something like that? He was in supernatural form - like a hat-trick literally every other game if IIRC? He also ended the season with 61 goals and 22 assists or something like that which was hist best tally to date. Madrid also played the best football I have seen them play this decade with Kroos and Modric in a double pivot in a 4-4-2. I'd say the only black mark on that season was going trophyless due to the injury to Modric and other key players that meant Ramos had to play midfield in big CL games. It also cost them the league since the squad was so thin and Ancelotti basically played with 13 players all year.
 

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Unquestionably Cristiano had the better career. His career is one of the top 5 in history.

Better player at their peaks? That's much closer maybe I am a bit biased but the Cristiano from 2006-2008 was just so good I struggle to put anyone over him. He had it all and that was when the English league was undoubtedly the best by far. He could play from any wide position and beat anyone. Great skills, movement on and off the ball and consistency.

Brazilian Ronaldo from 1996-1998 was so special though. I mean he was special full stop but those years you've got to look at the amount of goals scored by the teams in those leagues rather than just measure them vs. Critsiano's goal outputs. I didn't like the Real Madrid version of Brazilian Ronaldo quite as much as the Barca and first season at Inter one but he was still an incredible force who could really turn it on but he'd lost some explosiveness.
 

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Seriously I didn't wanted to but I have.

https://www.n-tv.pt/fora-de-jogo/ka...-cristiano-para-ver-quantas-vezes-es-noticia/

This link is in Portuguese so the only important thing here is to know Ronaldo sister recently insulted Figo on Instagram because he gave a interview to DAZN where they made this question.

"Cristiano Ronaldo or Fenómeno? No doubts, Fenómeno was better in front of the goal.
About Cristiano? He is able to score more goals from headers than Fenómeno, but both are impressive for me"


I honestly don't know why the opinion of someone who watches football on television is more valuable than someone who played football. Or should I bring here what Mourinho or Queiroz said about the Brazilian Ronaldo? Unless their opinion doesn't matter here because they didn't played the sport. Or whatever that means.
Nobody got insulted at all though.

Mourinho and Queiroz. Wonder what they both have in common :lol:

Mourinho’s feud with Ronaldo ended a while ago btw. Nobody thought the ‘real Ronaldo’ comments had anything to do with football as soon as they came out of his mouth.
 

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Anyone know why the club was wasting their time on Shearer while this guy was available? He would've been Fergie's perfect CF (or anyone's by that matter really), but I don't think we ever showed interest in the 90s.
Rangers had an offer accepted in 1997 but, for some reason he didn't fancy the SPL, even with the added bonus of being able to jet in for Old Firm and Champions League matches. :confused:
 

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Nobody got insulted at all though.

Mourinho and Queiroz. Wonder what they both have in common :lol:

Mourinho’s feud with Ronaldo ended a while ago btw. Nobody thought the ‘real Ronaldo’ comments had anything to do with football as soon as they came out of his mouth.
So anyone who says the Brazilian Ronaldo or Messi is better has an agenda against him. Ok.
 

Enigma_87

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Well then he's wrong. No right minded football fan would put Fenomeno as the best he's seen.
Obviously I don't agree with that either mate, but it's not only Figo. There is a plethora of great names that would take peak Fenomeno in the direct comparison here...

Nobody got insulted at all though.

Mourinho and Queiroz. Wonder what they both have in common :lol:

Mourinho’s feud with Ronaldo ended a while ago btw. Nobody thought the ‘real Ronaldo’ comments had anything to do with football as soon as they came out of his mouth.
You are finding excuse for everything mate. I'd take the opinion of a fellow pro than the random bloke off the Internet, feud or not. Nothing personal of course. :)
 

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I rarely agree with Peyroteo but he has a point there. Many ex pros simply don't care enough to really have a profound opinion. Generally they may know more about football than the average guy on the internet but the judgment of someone who has less clue but actually witnessed what he talks about can be more valuable than the one of a guy who has more knowledge but didn't bother watching.

Ironically, I think that this is the major reason why Ronaldo won 5 Ballon D'Ors. Because if the people whose opinions are supposed to matter would've actually watched enough football to give a proper judgement instead of just looking at titles and stats I think the general consensus who the best player of the current generation was would be even more one-sided. But that belongs into another topic..

Anyway, I just rewatched some Fenomeno highlights for the first time in ages and can only repeat myself, the guy was just an alien. Others may have utilized their capabilities more efficiently (age plays a role here..) but still, the maybe 70-80% of what we saw of Ronaldo's whole potential is probably more than I've witnessed from anyone not called Messi in his absolute prime. Nobody has been capable of doing these things since him. He completely steamrolled defenses.
 

Peyroteo

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So anyone who says the Brazilian Ronaldo or Messi is better has an agenda against him. Ok.
Yeah, that’s definitely what I said :lol:

Queiroz and Mourinho ffs... I mean, what else is anyone that has any clue of what happened supposed to say to that?
 

Peyroteo

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Obviously I don't agree with that either mate, but it's not only Figo. There is a plethora of great names that would take peak Fenomeno in the direct comparison here...



You are finding excuse for everything mate. I'd take the opinion of a fellow pro than the random bloke off the Internet, feud or not. Nothing personal of course. :)
I did play professionally if that counts for anything :lol:

Turns out the better you are at football, the more you know about it. Following that logic, Pele is the most knowledgeable football expert on the planet then.