So if you played professionally who was better with 20 then?Yeah, that’s definitely what I said
Ronaldo vs Ronaldo
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Who exatly belong to that brigade, then? The ones suggesting that Ronaldo had a higher peak than even Messi and was the most naturally gifted footballer ever (which also means he exceeded the Argentinian)?
Nobody is seriously arguing that Ronaldo had a better career than Cristiano because that is obviously not the case from what I saw. And in hintsight, Cristiano is definitely "more value for your money" since 15 years of scoring insane amounts of goals is worth more than 3-4 years of downright ridiculously good performances. But I seriously can't understand how anyone can watch those clips in which he just completely overwhelms defenses singlehandedly and then come to the conclusion "nah, can't understand how anyone can rate this so highly". There really hasn't been even one player capable of doing these things. Ronaldo is unique.
@Zehner Anyone who watched 96/97 Ronaldo knows that not even Messi created that chaos and devastation with the same age. Enough said. Not even those who don’t like CR7 are saying he hadn’t a better career. They simply have a objective. Not being objective.
Better with 20? You mean at 20 years of age? R9 by a mile, that’s not even an argument.
I even said myself that peak vs peak I think it’s very close. There is just lots of romanticism at play here. People are imagining R9 on his best day translated into a whole season rather than how it actually was.
Unfortunately being more likeable, more talented on the ball and more impressive to watch on YouTube matters more than how effective a player is for a lot of people. I’m sure in 20 or 30 years people will look at Cristiano Ronaldo very differently than they do now though.
Ok now you’re being objective. Regarding YouTube or Marketing I don’t think CR7 has anything to complain about.
By the way if you played at a professional level is there any secret regarding the clubs where you played?
Fatty for me. At his peak he was the greatest striker there's been, imo, too bad it was so short
My comment replied to the one who claims that Luiz had the better career.
It's high time we had a Messi vs Messi thread:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Parfait_Mbida_Messi
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Parfait_Mbida_Messi
As much as I’d like to, it’s hard to make a convincing case for El Phenomenon beyond anecdotal romance... it’s kinda like comparing Gazza and Rooney. I can tell you how amazing Gazza was to me as a kid back in the day ‘till the KFCs come home, but it’ll never objectively stack up against the actual facts.
Don’t really like sharing too much because I said some personal information here before, name included, and it would make it easy to find me.
That wouldn’t really be a good thing given the shit I spout here at times
Wtf I don’t need to know your name? First tier or second tier? North or South? Portugal or Abroad? Portugal youth teams or no? 3 years here and it’s the first time I heard this.Don’t really like sharing too much because I said some personal information here before, name included, and it would make it easy to find me.
That wouldn’t really be a good thing given the shit I spout here at times
I have talked about it before, just don’t like sharing too much information because you can find my first name and age here and I like the privacy of this.
I played abroad for 2
years, never in the first tier here. Don’t play anymore but I work for a small football club in the north. Dream job.
Scouting or youth football? Or maybe agent? Anyway I wouldn’t expose anyone here. By the way even if I knew who you are I wouldn’t do anything bad to you. Some other posters might not share the same opinion.I have talked about it before, just don’t like sharing too much information because you can find my first name and age here and I like the privacy of this.
I played abroad for 2
years, never in the first tier here. Don’t play anymore but I work for a small football club in the north. Dream job.
Feel free to give some clues to other posters here. Oh and less trolling might help your cause.
I can see the usual suspects from Messi vs Ronaldo thread have come here to sh*t on CR7. The "judging of footballing abililty by eye test" theory has reared its ugly head here again.
Look, R9 was a phenomenal player. But the fact that to showcase him we have to resort to so many intangibles and ifs and buts clearly proves who is better.
In the era of Messi, CR7 has won 5 wpoty. Enough said
Look, R9 was a phenomenal player. But the fact that to showcase him we have to resort to so many intangibles and ifs and buts clearly proves who is better.
In the era of Messi, CR7 has won 5 wpoty. Enough said
Would you take Souness, Ince, Shearer, Merson, and Michael Owen opinions over random folks in the CafObviously I don't agree with that either mate, but it's not only Figo. There is a plethora of great names that would take peak Fenomeno in the direct comparison here...
You are finding excuse for everything mate. I'd take the opinion of a fellow pro than the random bloke off the Internet, feud or not. Nothing personal of course.
I think George Best disagree. He once said Ronaldo is the only player he feel proud of when people related him as the "new George Best" at that time. Young Ronaldo at United was one of the most talented and skilful player we've ever seen, at least in England.
The real quote is here:
“There have been a couple of players depicted as the new George Best throughout the years. However, this is the first occasion when it’s been a compliment to me.” - George Best
And of course we all know George Best is one of the most skilful footballer/best dribbler in the history of football.
You didn't understand my post.
When R9 had similar platform to CR7 (a team with loads of quality), he won everything he was asked of. So my point is, you cannot say Cristiano played for a mediocre Portugal, without acknowledging that R9 played in the Portugal equivalent of club teams (he played in UEFA Cup caliber teams)
What about when he played at Real Madrid among fellow galacticos like Figo, Zidane, Beckham and other world class players like R.Carlos, Casillas, Hierro, Makelele, Raul, etc?
Best peak performances: R9
Best raw talent: R9
Best player (over career): CR7
Best player (over a season): CR7
Best player (over a tournament): CR7
Greatest player (in terms of individual achievements): CR7
Best raw talent: R9
Best player (over career): CR7
Best player (over a season): CR7
Best player (over a tournament): CR7
Greatest player (in terms of individual achievements): CR7
I think Ronaldo is better. Or perhaps Ronaldo. I'll get my hat.
Not really. Ronaldo was already a better player than Giggs ever was at 21/22 years old in the 06/07 season where he beat a PRIME Drogba to PFA player of the year. He became the first player to win all 4 major Footballer of the Year awards in that season and the first player to win the PFA player of the year and the Young player of the year at the same time since Andy Gray in 1977.
You could even argue Ronaldo at 21/22 years old was already a better player than Gerrard or Lampard were at any point in their careers as they were around their prime when Ronaldo started dominating the premier league. Giggs isn’t a better dribbler than Ronaldo and he’s not as multi-faceted in his play. Ronaldo could do more things with the ball in addition to everything Giggs could do, plus he was two footed.
I think people underrate C.Ronaldo’s sheer raw talent. He was better than any 21-25 year old that’s ever played in the premier league. Martial now is already older than Ronaldo was when he had his legendary 07/08 season and isn’t fit to lace his boots - but is still considered one of the most talented young players in the game.
That’s just an appeal to authority. So basically someone’s opinion holds greater value because of the position they hold. It’s like saying Pele who obviously talks shite has a superior opinion to everyone on football because he was the best at it. Most of these guys don’t watch football and analyse the game as much as we do so it’s not that crazy that some of us would honestly know better that some of them. And I’m not necessarily saying that’s the case here.I'd take the opinion of a fellow pro than the random bloke off the Internet, feud or not. Nothing personal of course.
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I think Messi, Hazard and Maradona are better dribblers than fat Ronaldo, but really their dribbling styles are different. Messi and Hazard goes for close control and quick directional changes, but fat Ronaldo goes for pace and power combined with feints and simple trickery. As long as it is effective, who cares about how it is done?
It's like Mbappe vs O.Dembele. Dembele has the better arsenal of dribbling tricks, but Mbappe's pure pace and power makes him a more feared dribbler in the eyes of the defenders.
This is turning into a Kobe vs Shaq argument.
Can Shaq shoot 3 pointers like Kobe?
Can Shaq shoot free throws like Kobe?
Can Shaq throw windmill dunks like Kobe?
Can Shaq do fade away jumpers like Kobe?
Who do I want in my team? Shaq.
Replace Shaq with LeBron and you get a similar answer.
Fat Ronaldo is the best goal scorer in his era, so I have no idea why you have a problem with his goalscoring record when he has the best of his period. He isn't scoring less than other strikers during his time.
Messi and Cristiano has better stats sure, but when you have guys like Suarez, Kane and Salah and even Griezmann putting up similar numbers, it shows that the goalscoring is a result of the changes to the style of play rather than the players being better themselves.
He was the best goalscorer in the world in the mid-late 90's. Won the European Golden Boot once and Pichichi twice over his career. But one could argue Henry and Ruud, and even Etoo, were better goalscorer than R9 during majority of 2000's.
Ronaldo9
In 2000's: 103 goals in 191 games
Career: 352 goals in 518 games
Henry
In 2000's: 275 goals in 490 games
Career: 360 goals in 792 games (around 160 games as left winger)
Ruud
In 2000's: 257 goals in 377 games
Career: 349 goals in 592 games
Etoo
In 2000's: 253 goals in 465 games
Career: 368 goals in 753 games
The stats are comparative in over a similar period of time (their career all overlaps in late 90's, whole of 2000's, and early 2010's, in a span of 12-18 years)
Now lets take a look at Ronaldo and Messi era:
CR7
In 2010's: 470 goals in 469 games
Career: 593 goals in 794 games (around 170 games as left winger in 442)
Messi
In 2010's: 501 goals in 505 games
Career: 592 goals in 698 games
Suarez
In 2010's: 311 goals in 433 games
Career: 338 goals in 591 games
Kane
In 2010's: 176 goals in 309 games
Career: 176 goals in 309 games
Salah
In 2010's: 141 goals in 337 games
Career: 141 goals in 337 games
Griezmann
In 2010's: 181 goals in 442 games
Career: 181 goals in 442 games
Where did you get the impression of "guys like Suarez, Kane, Salah and even Griezman putting up similar numbers" are beyond me. They simply aren't similar in any sense, the gap is fecking huge, even over similar overlapped period.
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So you are making my point then. Fat Ronaldo is head and shoulders above everyone when it comes to goal scoring pre-injury. Even after he came back from injury, he still puts up the best goalscoring records in the world compared to the world's best strikers.
How that can be seen as a negative is beyond me, to me this is a testament to his natural ability.
Now lets take a look at Ronaldo and Messi era:
Don't put up the goal scoring records for the whole decade, just do the prime years with these guys. It took time for these younger guys to develop and get put into great teams and not everyone was as fortunate as Ronaldo and Messi to be put in top clubs at the start of their careers.
You will see that the crazy goal scoring records done by Messi and Ronaldo are closely replicated by multiple other players, even if it's only for a couple of seasons. This shows that a top striker and produce those goods when put in a similar position of the two top guys.
Don't put up the goal scoring records for the whole decade, just do the prime years with these guys. It took time for these younger guys to develop and get put into great teams and not everyone was as fortunate as Ronaldo and Messi to be put in top clubs at the start of their careers.
You will see that the crazy goal scoring records done by Messi and Ronaldo are closely replicated by multiple other players, even if it's only for a couple of seasons. This shows that a top striker and produce those goods when put in a similar position of the two top guys.
No it isn't. After injury he scored 103 goals in 10 years, Henry scored 275 goals, Ruud scored 257 goals, Etoo scored 253 goals in same period.
Upon first glance you'd have to say Leo, but can he do it on a hot Wednesday night in Luanda? It's very much up for debate.
I also did and seen both live, have you seen Fenomeno in his pump?I did play professionally if that counts for anything
Turns out the better you are at football, the more you know about it. Following that logic, Pele is the most knowledgeable football expert on the planet then.
Everybody seems to use Pele as an example. Again, it's not just him but one of the best managers in history...
Pretty sure if random folks are on air every week will spout some nonsense in the process.Would you take Souness, Ince, Shearer, Merson, and Michael Owen opinions over random folks in the Caf
Ok, lets' do it.
Prime years (for couple of seasons):
CR7
14-15: 61 goals in 54 games
11-12: 60 goals in 55 games
12-13: 55 goals in 55 games
10-11: 53 goals in 54 games
Best 4 years total: 229 goals in 218 games
Best 3 years total: 176 goals in 164 games
Best 2 years total: 121 goals in 109 games
Messi
11-12: 73 goals in 60 games
12-13: 60 goals in 50 games
14-15: 58 goals in 57 games
10-11: 53 goals in 55 games
Best 4 years total: 244 goals in 222 games
Best 3 years total: 191 goals in 167 games
Best 2 years total: 133 goals in 110 games
Suarez
15-16: 59 goals in 53 games
16-17: 31 goals in 51 games
13-14: 31 goals in 37 games
17-18: 31 goals in 51 games
Best 4 years total: 152 goals in 192 games
Best 3 years total: 121 goals in 147 games
Best 2 years total: 90 goals in 104 games
Kane
17-18: 41 goals in 48 games
16-17: 35 goals in 38 games
14-15: 31 goals in 51 games
15-16: 28 goals in 50 games
Best 4 years total: 135 goals in 187 games
Best 3 years total: 107 goals in 137 games
Best 2 years total: 76 goals in 86 games
Salah
17-18: 44 goals in 52 games
18-19: 20 goals in 34 games (so far)
16-17: 19 goals in 41 games
15-16: 15 goals in 42 games
Best 4 years total: 98 goals in 169 games
Best 3 years total: 83 goals in 127 games
Best 2 years total: 64 goals in 86 games
Griezmann
15-16: 32 goals in 54 games
17-18: 29 goals in 49 games
16-17: 26 goals in 53 games
14-15: 25 goals in 53 games
Best 4 years total: 166 goals in 209 games
Best 3 years total: 87 goals in 156 games
Best 2 years total: 61 goals in 103 games
Again night and day difference in all the prime years comparison (for couple of seasons)
Next should we do 1 year comparison, then 10 games comparison, the finally 1 game comparison, to suit your agenda?
For 1 year comparison, only Suarez has managed 1 season of similar stats throughout his whole career. None of the other players you've mentioned managed to get anywhere near to it. And none has managed to do it in more than 1 season at all, even for just 2 season alone, None.
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Absolute peak: R9
Cristiano: Everything else.
There is a lot of romanticism going on here.
It reminds me of when you are down the pub and everyone is discussing who the GOAT is and people start saying ridiculous stuff such as Ronaldinho or Zidane. Great players but romanticism plays a huge factor for them.
Cristiano: Everything else.
There is a lot of romanticism going on here.
It reminds me of when you are down the pub and everyone is discussing who the GOAT is and people start saying ridiculous stuff such as Ronaldinho or Zidane. Great players but romanticism plays a huge factor for them.
It's actually what most of are saying - R9 peak and Cristiano everything else.
I'm not sure where you see the night and day difference. Ronaldo and Messi are clearly better yes, but the gap between them and the rest isn't any greater than the gap between Fat Ron and his contemporaries in his prime. So crying out "Where are the goals?" seem amazingly silly to me.
He was past his injuries, the thread asks about peak
I will be subjective here, but as R9 is my all-time favourite player, i will say that injuries robbed him of a much better career, he would have been mentioned in the same sentence as Pele and Maradona.
He was the stand-out performer in 2 consecutive World Cups ('98 and '02). Most people think that if the Brazil team wasn't poisoned before the '98 final they would have won it. Something dodgy happened before that Final that made the Brazil team look unrecognizable.
In my opinion, peak-Ronaldo is among the best in history, if not the best, a really unstoppable force, and in my opinion if he made a huge mistake in leaving Barca too soon. He went to Italy which was the best league in the world but also the toughest, and wrecked his knees.
As a career, i'd say CR7 edges it, but not by far. In terms of football ability R9 is the best player, and by a distance. No player had the combined set of power, technique and speed that peak R9 had. He made peak Maldini look like a fool.
I would skip the goals, and show just some proof of his wide array of skills:
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10DLtSH2bY
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-P8owvfsOs
He was the stand-out performer in 2 consecutive World Cups ('98 and '02). Most people think that if the Brazil team wasn't poisoned before the '98 final they would have won it. Something dodgy happened before that Final that made the Brazil team look unrecognizable.
In my opinion, peak-Ronaldo is among the best in history, if not the best, a really unstoppable force, and in my opinion if he made a huge mistake in leaving Barca too soon. He went to Italy which was the best league in the world but also the toughest, and wrecked his knees.
As a career, i'd say CR7 edges it, but not by far. In terms of football ability R9 is the best player, and by a distance. No player had the combined set of power, technique and speed that peak R9 had. He made peak Maldini look like a fool.
I would skip the goals, and show just some proof of his wide array of skills:
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=j10DLtSH2bY
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-P8owvfsOs
Haven’t seen Messi do it on a cold night in Indonesia
Are you blind or something?
Over prime years period of 4 years:
Ronaldo scored 229 goals, Messi scored 244 goals
Suarez scored 152 goals, Kane 135 goals, Griezmann scored 166 goals, Salah scored 98 goals
How is it not night and day difference? You think 70-80 goals difference in span of 4 years not night and day? It took them at least 6 prime years to reach Ronaldo/Messi 4 years goal amount, or 4 to 5 prime years to match Ronaldo/Messi 3 years, or 3-4 prime years to match Ronaldo/Messi 2 years.
Its fecking huge.
(by percentage there is around 30-40% gap difference)
Now, let's be fair, lets look at R9 era and do the same prime years comparison:
R9
96-97: 47 goals in 49 games
97-98: 34 goals in 47 games
03-04: 31 goals in 48 games
02-03: 30 goals in 44 games
Best 4 years total: 142 goals in 188 games
Henry
03-04: 39 goals in 49 games
05-06: 33 goals in 45 games
01-02: 32 goals in 49 games
02-03: 32 goals in 55 games
Best 4 years total: 136 goals in 198 games
Ruud
02-03: 44 goals in 52 games
01-02: 36 goals in 49 games
06-07: 33 goals in 47 games
03-04: 30 goals in 44 games
Best 4 years total: 143 goals in 193 games
Etoo
10-11: 37 goals in 53 games
08-09: 36 goals in 52 games
05-06: 34 goals in 47 games
04-05: 29 goals in 45 games
Best 4 years total: 136 goals in 197 games.
Now, tell me, with your eyes opened, where is the gap? There's no fecking gap at all there! They have all scored similar amount of goals in their prime years!
(by percentage there is near to 0% gap difference)
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Your stats shows that Fat Ron is clearly above the rest to me. More goals in less games. Also what happened to the two year period and including the years after injury? Also I believe you are comparing the wrong players, just look at the the best years you are comparing with. You should be comparing Fat Ron with Batistuta, Vieri, Shearer, Anelka and Cole, you know the actual top strikers during his time.
Was about to post Batistuta's peak seasons to get some Serie A flavor
Batistuta
1999-00: 29 goals in 44 games
1994-95 : 28 goals in 37 games
1995-96 : 27 goals in 39 games
1998-99 : 26 goals in 37 games
Total: 110 goals in 157 games
GPG in peak 4 years : Batistuta - 0.70, R9 - 0.75
Hope even the most die-hard R9 fans will not claim that Batistuta played in world class sides against shit defense.
Shearer
1995-96 : 37 goals in 48 games
1994-95 : 37 goals in 49 games
1993-94 : 34 goals in 48 games
1996-97: 28 goals in 40 games
Total: 136 goals in 185 games
GPG in peak 4 years: 0.74.
Anelka, Cole, Vieri are anyway never in the conversation of the elite forwards.Not sure why you want to include them in the analysis.
If we are only going by the "goals scored" metrics, I am unable to see how R9 was even "head and shoulders above" his peers, forget CR7 and messi.
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