Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

[RedRonaldo]

Kind of an irrelevant point then really?

At his age and his returns but also how he played to get those numbers he was untouchable.

For me, as a natural talent he was simply untouchable in recent times of the game.

Its relevant if you think his time in Brazil and Dutch is ridiculously amazing, because it's not.
Unless you are comparing to other 17/18 years old, but then no one will care to discuss how amazing Maradona or Messi was at age of 13 when compare to other kids at school.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He's not faster than Ronaldo, that's not even an opinion but a fact. Post injury Ronaldo most likely still had better top speed than any iteration of CR7, that's how ridiculously fast he was. Suggesting the opposite issimply wrong, plain and simply. Technique is a soft criterion so that depends on your individual assessment but honestly, saying that Cristiano is a better technician than Ronaldo for me is like suggesting CR7 has got a better technique than Zidane. Even Zidane himself said Ronaldo is the best player he encountered during his career because he could do things with a football nobody else could. I mean, if there's one equal to Ronaldinho in terms of skill moves/tricks, it's Ronaldo. I'm utterly stunned that someone could've watched him in the flesh and still come to the conclusion that Cristiano is a better technician. That's completely absurd to me.

Because technique isn't only about ball control, as you might think it is. There's already length discussion on this topic here.

Also, you are mixing up pace with acceleration/explosiveness. L.Ronaldo is quicker in acceleration, and hence he look more explosive in his first 5 to 35 yards run. C.Ronaldo is faster over 50-80 yards run, which is more about pace, hence he is often widely considered as the best player in counter attack.

 

[Keefy18]

Its relevant if you think his time in Brazil and Dutch is ridiculously amazing, because it's not.
Unless you are comparing to other 17/18 years old, but then no one will care to discuss how amazing Maradona or Messi was at age of 13 when compare to other kids at school.

Well actually it was, to suggest otherwise is absolutely moronic.

It was ridiculous enough for Robson to spend a then world record fee of £19.5m on him as a fresh faced 18 year old.

BTW, Ronaldo was doing incredible things long before Brazil and Holland also, he scored 166 goals in a single season at youth league level.

Again, you keep saying what he done was nothing special but provide zero to back that up with.

 

[Zehner]

Because technique isn't only about ball control, as you might think it is. There's already length discussion on this topic here.

Also, you are mixing up pace with acceleration/explosiveness. L.Ronaldo is quicker in acceleration, and hence he look more explosive in his first 5 to 35 yards run. C.Ronaldo is faster over 50-80 yards run, which is more about pace, hence he is often widely considered as the best player in counter attack.

No, you want me to confuse that, but I already mentioned the top speed Ronaldo achiebed. Ronaldo is faster than Cristiano on every distance.

Remember that Madrid goal when Bale made Bartra look like a slug? Ronaldo did that to countless defenders. In fact, people invented the phrase "sprint in a sprint" for him, because it sometimes seemed like he was at full pace (already faster than most others) but then put in an even higher gear. Don't believe me? Watch this:


There's also no area of technique where Cristiano beats Ronaldo by the same margin Ronaldo does in ball control, first touch, dribbling and skill moves. Ronaldo is a more inventive passer, Cristiano is probably more consistent. Cristiano may be a better crosser but not by much. Actually, he completely trumps Ronnie in the heading department but I doubt you suggest that he's better technician because he's better in the air. Shooting technique is close, too. Ronaldo was also an outstanding shot taker from any range.

 

[RedRonaldo]

No, you want me to confuse that, but I already mentioned the top speed Ronaldo achiebed. Ronaldo is faster than Cristiano on every distance.

Remember that Madrid goal when Bale made Bartra look like a slug? Ronaldo did that to countless defenders. In fact, people invented the phrase "sprint in a sprint" for him, because it sometimes seemed like he was at full pace (already faster than most others) but then put in an even higher gear. Don't believe me? Watch this:


There's also no area of technique where Cristiano beats Ronaldo by the same margin Ronaldo does in ball control, first touch, dribbling and skill moves. Ronaldo is a more inventive passer, Cristiano is probably more consistent. Cristiano may be a better crosser but not by much. Actually, he completely trumps Ronnie in the heading department but I doubt you suggest that he's better technician because he's better in the air. Shooting technique is close, too. Ronaldo was also an outstanding shot taker from any range.

L.Ronaldo is very fast and explosive in first 5-35 yards, as I've already said, and as the majority of footage you've shown, nothing new there.

Again you are refusing to related technique to anything outside ball control and dribbling.

Now let me show you these:

Shooting:

Finishing:

Freekicks:

Heading:

Passing:

Penalty:


These have nothing to do with ball control and dribble at all (not showing any of his dribbling/tricks video). But are these not what you'd consider as technique?

 

[Zehner]

L.Ronaldo is very fast and explosive in first 5-35 yards, as I've already said, and as the majority of footage you've shown, nothing new there.

Again you are refusing to related technique to anything outside ball control and dribbling.

Now let me show you these:

Shooting:

Finishing:

Freekicks:

Heading:

Passing:

Penalty:


These have nothing to do with ball control and dribble at all (not showing any of his dribbling/tricks video). But are these not what you'd consider as technique?

The video I posted showed numerous runs across 40-60% of the pitch, that's about the longest distance you'll find in football matches. There's no footage for any football having longer runs, except maybe when defending a counter attack. Would you mind showing me a video where Cristiano shows the pace you are talking about over the distances you say he's faster?


And of course those things count to technique which is the reason why I explicitly mentioned them. But Ronaldo Nazario isn't bad at them either, I'd definitely say he's got a better passing technique than Cristiano and his finishing from under 20 meters is abour equal. I give Cristiano heading, freekicks, "acrobatics", very distant shots and probably backheel passes. However, I attribute much more weight to first touch, ball control, dribbling and tricks/skill moves and Ronaldo for me is much much better at those things.

 

[roonster09]

.

Ridiculous burst of pace.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The video I posted showed numerous runs across 40-60% of the pitch, that's about the longest distance you'll find in football matches. There's no footage for any football having longer runs, except maybe when defending a counter attack. Would you mind showing me a video where Cristiano shows the pace you are talking about over the distances you say he's faster?


And of course those things count to technique which is the reason why I explicitly mentioned them. But Ronaldo Nazario isn't bad at them either, I'd definitely say he's got a better passing technique than Cristiano and his finishing from under 20 meters is abour equal. I give Cristiano heading, freekicks, "acrobatics", very distant shots and probably backheel passes. However, I attribute much more weight to first touch, ball control, dribbling and tricks/skill moves and Ronaldo for me is much much better at those things.

L.Ronaldo never shown anywhere near the same level of technique C.Ronaldo has shown in shooting, heading, passing, finishing, freekick and even penalty. Yes he is better dribbler with better ball control, his technique in both of these are better, that's about it. C.Ronaldo has mastered a much wider range of technique in football, that's all I am saying.

As for 5-35 yards vs 50-80 yards runs


I'd say Ronaldo cover more yards in his running. But you can also say he is a winger, so he naturally runs more yards especially in counter attack.

 

[InterFan1998]

I'm not sure using goal scoring statistics is really a fair way of looking at things. Keep in mind that around the time R9 was in his prime, he was playing in Italy, by far the best defensive league at the time with the likes of Maldini and Nesta, who are considered among the top defenders of all time. I dont think Cristiano or Messi faced off against those type if defenders as often as Messi and Cristiano's prime coincided with a huge drop in defensive quality.

Also, if goal scoring is used as a measurement than World Cup goal scoring should be looked as well as overall performance. R9 blows both Messi and Cristiano out of the water based on World Cup performances.

 

[giorno]

.

But as footballer, compared to other professional footballers, there's nothing amazing about his record in Brazil and Dutch league, did you get that one?

So, who else did it?

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well actually it was, to suggest otherwise is absolutely moronic.

It was ridiculous enough for Robson to spend a then world record fee of £19.5m on him as a fresh faced 18 year old.

BTW, Ronaldo was doing incredible things long before Brazil and Holland also, he scored 166 goals in a single season at youth league level.

Again, you keep saying what he done was nothing special but provide zero to back that up with.

So, who else did it?

Ok I am really tired of repeating myself. You keep saying he is the best kid at his age, I keep agreeing to that. But he is nowhere near best in the world during his time in Brazil league and Dutch league, the no. of goals he scored has been matched by alot of average players there. But you keep refusing to listen but instead keeping on going back saying he is best at his age, which I agree. This discussion is getting nowhere.

Ok Let me repost this again.

Dutch league record:

L.Ronaldo (18-19 years old at PSV)
94-95: 35 goals in 36 games
95-96: 19 goals in 21 games

Machlas (24 years old at Vitesse)
97:98: 34 goals in 32 games
(went to Spain once, only score 2 goals there...)

Kezmann (23-24 years old at PSV)
02-03: 40 goals in 43 games
03-04: 38 goals in 43 games
(he only managed to score 7 goals a season in England)

Alves (25 years old at Heerenveen)
06-07: 37 goals in 38 games
(he only managed to score 6-7 goals a season in England)

Kuyt (24 years old at Feyenoord)
04-05: 36 goals in 44 games
(he only manage to score 11-15 goals a season in England)

Huntelaar (24 years old at Ajax)
07-08: 36 goals in 45 games
(he only manage to score 7-8 goals a season in La Liga/Serie A)

Brazil league record:

L.Ronaldo (17-18 years old)
93: 20 goals in 21 games
94: 24 goals in 26 games

Tulio
00: 30 goals in 23 games

Guilherme
99: 28 goals

Renaldo
03: 30 goals

Washington
04: 34 goals in 38 games

(Sorry can't find much data from those stats in Brazil league, just some random names no one knows, but with more impressive records than L.Ronaldo in same league, there are lot more names than the one I listed, but I couldn't care to search all)

If L.Ronaldo records during 93-96 in Brazil and Dutch league was amazing, so were all these average players.

 

[giorno]

Thanks!

 

[Keefy18]

Ok I am really tired of repeating myself. You keep saying he is the best kid at his age, I keep agreeing to that. But he is nowhere near best in the world during his time in Brazil league and Dutch league, the no. of goals he scored has been matched by alot of average players there. But you keep refusing to listen but instead keeping on going back saying he is best at his age, which I agree. This discussion is getting nowhere.

Ok Let me repost this again.

Dutch league record:

L.Ronaldo (18-19 years old at PSV)
94-95: 35 goals in 36 games
95-96: 19 goals in 21 games

Machlas (24 years old at Vitesse)
97:98: 34 goals in 32 games
(went to Spain once, only score 2 goals there...)

Kezmann (23-24 years old at PSV)
02-03: 40 goals in 43 games
03-04: 38 goals in 43 games
(he only managed to score 7 goals a season in England)

Alves (25 years old at Heerenveen)
06-07: 37 goals in 38 games
(he only managed to score 6-7 goals a season in England)

Kuyt (24 years old at Feyenoord)
04-05: 36 goals in 44 games
(he only manage to score 11-15 goals a season in England)

Huntelaar (24 years old at Ajax)
07-08: 36 goals in 45 games
(he only manage to score 7-8 goals a season in La Liga/Serie A)

Brazil league record:

L.Ronaldo (17-18 years old)
93: 20 goals in 21 games
94: 24 goals in 26 games

Tulio
00: 30 goals in 23 games

Guilherme
99: 28 goals

Renaldo
03: 30 goals

Washington
04: 34 goals in 38 games

(Sorry can't find much data from those stats in Brazil league, just some random names no one knows, but with more impressive records than L.Ronaldo in same league, there are lot more names than the one I listed, but I couldn't care to search all)

If L.Ronaldo records during 93-96 in Brazil and Dutch league was amazing, so were all these average players.

And none of them were bought for world transfer records, so clearly a massive difference and his impact there was deemed far more important than any on your list.

He was clearly a very, very special talent from a very young age, similar to Pele, Messi & Maradona playing street football and in youth leagues after it.

 

[RedRonaldo]

And none of them were bought for world transfer records, so clearly a massive difference and his impact there was deemed far more important than any on your list.

He was clearly a very, very special talent from a very young age, similar to Pele, Messi & Maradona playing street football and in youth leagues after it.

Hey guess what, for the 5th time today, I am not disagreeing to any of that. L.Ronaldo is the most talented teenager I've ever seen too.

 

[paraguayo]

Cristiano wins at everything.

Cristiano is actually taller than Van Dijk (in 2011-2013 Cristiano was 6'5) and would win Miss Congeniality over Evra.

 

[Swoobs]

Honestly...saying Cristiano is better than Fat Ronaldo at tricks...thats as good as saying messi jumps higher than Cristiano

Honestly one of the most ridiculous statement I have seen, heard or read when comparing players. Nevermind the Fat Ronaldo/Ronaldinho tier, was Cristiano even better than Quaresma at tricks?

Look I understand that Cristiano is a great great player, had a better career/numbers than 99.99% of all footballers including Fat Ronaldo, and will be in the top 5/10 players ever in history. Therefore he will not need statements that are obviously ridiculous to back him up.

 

[broccoli]

It's not just vision. He's just not got the same range, ability or indeed technique in his passing. Like I said, he'd adept. He doesn't kill moves and can make a good pass when he has to in the final third. But some in this thread are making it out to be as though he is magnificent at everything. Not the case.

Just because he doesn't do it often it doesn't mean he couldn't execute a long pass with precision, or technically difficult pass like a rabonna. He doesn't play in an area of the field in which such moves present themselves nor, again, he doesn't have the vision to use it often.

I agree he's not technically excellent at passing and adept is more suitable but the point of the discussion was that CR7 is indeed a technically strong player. Even if passing is not his forte but so it wasn't fatRon's.


Some of these passes look simple but they have just the right speed and power and end up very easy assists. The difference between him and a magnificient passer like Pilro is not technique but footballing brain.

 

[VanKenny]

Well, no. Messi's had maybe three seasons individually better than Ronaldo's. 11/12 for sure, other than that it's arguable. Unless you want to talk stats, in which case your point is still incorrect

Nope. Just the last two seasons alone Messi played better than that one freak season of R9. Basically was an elite scorer, elite passer, elite free kick tacker, elite dribbler etc all into one. And thats past his prime Messi.

Its mindblowing how nostalgia is turning R9 into the GOAT pretty much.

So you just care about numbers?

Then surely Gerd Müller is the GOAT for you, right?

Yeah, because we all know that Messi is just a poacher benefitting from clearly better players, so all his stats are just irrelevant, he's the Argentinian Muller pretty much. CR7 too, basically owes everything to Kroos and Modric.

Its not like they have the trophies to back those numbers up, the individual awards, the highest number of assists between the two, brilliant plays/goals that will still be talked about in decades to come, also the players with the most 10/10 performances in any matches EVER.


Kind of ridiculous the kind of things R9 fans say just to make him look better than CR7.

 

[Halds]

CR will go down as one of the best footballers ever, but R9 was more talented. I don't care about numbers and stats. I don't read football. I watch it with my eyes. CR was effecient perhaps like no one else, but R9 was a better player.

 

[VanKenny]

but R9 was a better player.

He was a better dribbler, and maybe, just maybe, an inch faster in a 100M race. But he was not a better football player than Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

[Bogdannn]

It's time to end this silly debate once and for all. R9 has the higher peak by a country mile.

Almost all pros, pundits and people who have seen them both play in the flesh since they started their career will tell you R9 had the higher peak.
He was the closest thing to perfection you could get as a footballer: incredible technique, amazing acceleration and top speed, strong, could use both feet, he could do it all.
Only little kids who have not seen R9 play think CR7 has had a higher peak.

Even in terms of goals scoring, R9 is amazing. He was scoring almost a goal per match:
- in an era in which was oriented towards defense and scoring was way harder due to the rules that favored defenders, who could hack at opponents's feet at will;
- sometimes on muddy pitches and overall far worse playing conditions;
- against some of the best defenders of all time, who were in their prime: Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Thuram, Dessailly, Costacurta, etc
- in teams that were nowhere near as good as those CR7 has played in; for example the Inter team R9 had in 97-98 is a joke compared to CR7's Real team. Take R9 and CR7 out of the equation and pit the 97-98 Inter team against any Real team from 2012 to 2017 and the latter will win by a deficit of at least 5 or 6 goals in the worst case scenario;
- in a balanced league; the top teams back then were nowhere near as superior to the other teams in the league as Real and Barca have been for more than a decade;
- in a team that was not top 3 material before he came.

1 goal in the 90's Serie A is worth 2 or 3 in the 00's and 10's La Liga. Put prime R9 in a 2012-2017 Real team or in a 2009-2013 Barca and he'd score 100+ goals a season.

Even if you break down their attributes, R9 comes out on top:
1. Technique - R9
Btw some of you have no clue about what technique is. It's all about ball control, dribbling and skills. Some of you make it sound as if even tying one's shoes is a technique.
The only 2 players in history that are on the same level or superior to R9 in this department are Ronaldinho and Maradona.
CR7 is not even top 10 in this aspect of the game. Apart from the 3 mentioned, he also gets outclassed by the likes of Zico, Pele, Best, Zidane, Bergkamp, Messi, Neymar, Baggio. Hell even Ochoka surpasses him.
2. Dribbling - R9. Even when he used flashy skills, he used them effectively and got passed defenders. CR7 will do a million useless step overs and then fall down the second someone touches him.
3. Acceleration - R9
4. Top speed - R9
Even if CR7 might have a slightly higher top speed after they run more than 60/70 meters, it's irrelevant. It's not as if one of your teammates will cross you the ball and you go running after it with just 1 opponent while the rest of his teammates watch. The most important thing is how fast you can run with a ball at your feet, and R9 is clearly superior in this department.
5. Shooting - slight edge CR7 cause he's slightly better at long shots.
6. Passing - draw. R9 has better vision, while CR7 can cross the ball better. They are pretty even in terms of short passing.
7. Strength - R9 by a mile. R9 could withstand defenders ramming into him while he had the ball at his feet. On the other hand, CR7 falls like a girl on most occasions when the opposing defenders ram him. And bare in mind he's facing La Liga defenders, which are nowhere near the level of those R9 faced.
8. Free Kicks - draw. Despite the common misconception, CR7 is not superior in this department. He had a spell at Man. United where he was scoring some nice power shots, but that's about it. His conversion rate is abysmal. As for R9, he never really cared about taking free kicks, but when he did, he was very good at it. Despite not practicing one bit.
9. Heading the ball - CR7. This is the only department where CR7 wins comfortably.
10. Stamina - CR7. And it's all got to do with his obsession for training and an impeccable life as a sportsman. Even in his prime, R9 was at the opposite spectrum. Like most Brazilian talents, he was very lazy and barely trained, he liked girls and to go out and party.

Result: R9 the clear winner.

When CR7 will also end his career, he will probably be seen as the greater player between the 2. And one can't argue against that. Despite the fact that R9 has brought Brazil a World Cup, CR7 has had more success overall. He's been playing at an incredible level for over a decade.
R9 never really achieved his potential due to his knee injuries, poor work ethic and health issues (hypothyroidism).
But prime vs prime, R9 wins hands down.

 

[Halds]

He was a better dribbler, and maybe, just maybe, an inch faster in a 100M race. But he was not a better football player than Cristiano Ronaldo.

How do you know? You were around 6 years old when he went to Barca. Did you actually see R9 in his prime?

 

[Zehner]

Honestly...saying Cristiano is better than Fat Ronaldo at tricks...thats as good as saying messi jumps higher than Cristiano

Honestly one of the most ridiculous statement I have seen, heard or read when comparing players. Nevermind the Fat Ronaldo/Ronaldinho tier, was Cristiano even better than Quaresma at tricks?

Look I understand that Cristiano is a great great player, had a better career/numbers than 99.99% of all footballers including Fat Ronaldo, and will be in the top 5/10 players ever in history. Therefore he will not need statements that are obviously ridiculous to back him up.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on that topic. Utter disbelieve that someone watched both players and still came to the conusion that Cristiano is better technically.

 

[Swoobs]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on that topic. Utter disbelieve that someone watched both players and still came to the conusion that Cristiano is better technically.

Well, for technique, from some of these Cristiano fans explanation, I can still understand why they think he is better than Fat Ronaldo.

I do not agree with them, especially since things like crossing, passing , finishing and freekicks are also listed so why should I consider technique to be those things (double counting/credit), and i dont think Cristiano has a better finish or passing than Fat Ronaldo anyway. But I can still understand their POV.

But tricks? Come on now...I do not even want to put in an argument as it is just too obvious. Cristiano’s level of tricks were at the elite level, but not at the amongst the best of all time level that Fat Ronaldo/ Ronaldinho were at.

If anything, this debate proved that Cristiano utterly won at the marketing technique haha

 

[RedRonaldo]

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on that topic. Utter disbelieve that someone watched both players and still came to the conusion that Cristiano is better technically.

Because you can’t see technique in football beyond ball control and dribbling.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Honestly...saying Cristiano is better than Fat Ronaldo at tricks...thats as good as saying messi jumps higher than Cristiano

Honestly one of the most ridiculous statement I have seen, heard or read when comparing players. Nevermind the Fat Ronaldo/Ronaldinho tier, was Cristiano even better than Quaresma at tricks?

Look I understand that Cristiano is a great great player, had a better career/numbers than 99.99% of all footballers including Fat Ronaldo, and will be in the top 5/10 players ever in history. Therefore he will not need statements that are obviously ridiculous to back him up.

You can say L.Ronaldo does his dribbling tricks more effectively, but C.Ronaldo does more variety of tricks not only in dribbling, but also in passing and first touch, even with his chest, shoulder and his back.

 

[MVBDX]

Career wise it's Cristinao by a large margin, but peak wise it's RonaldoN, whose peak was probably the highest ever.

 

[Snow]

It's time to end this silly debate once and for all. R9 has the higher peak by a country mile.

Almost all pros, pundits and people who have seen them both play in the flesh since they started their career will tell you R9 had the higher peak.
He was the closest thing to perfection you could get as a footballer: incredible technique, amazing acceleration and top speed, strong, could use both feet, he could do it all.
Only little kids who have not seen R9 play think CR7 has had a higher peak.

Even in terms of goals scoring, R9 is amazing. He was scoring almost a goal per match:
- in an era in which was oriented towards defense and scoring was way harder due to the rules that favored defenders, who could hack at opponents's feet at will;
- sometimes on muddy pitches and overall far worse playing conditions;
- against some of the best defenders of all time, who were in their prime: Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Thuram, Dessailly, Costacurta, etc
- in teams that were nowhere near as good as those CR7 has played in; for example the Inter team R9 had in 97-98 is a joke compared to CR7's Real team. Take R9 and CR7 out of the equation and pit the 97-98 Inter team against any Real team from 2012 to 2017 and the latter will win by a deficit of at least 5 or 6 goals in the worst case scenario;
- in a balanced league; the top teams back then were nowhere near as superior to the other teams in the league as Real and Barca have been for more than a decade;
- in a team that was not top 3 material before he came.

1 goal in the 90's Serie A is worth 2 or 3 in the 00's and 10's La Liga. Put prime R9 in a 2012-2017 Real team or in a 2009-2013 Barca and he'd score 100+ goals a season.

Even if you break down their attributes, R9 comes out on top:
1. Technique - R9
Btw some of you have no clue about what technique is. It's all about ball control, dribbling and skills. Some of you make it sound as if even tying one's shoes is a technique.
The only 2 players in history that are on the same level or superior to R9 in this department are Ronaldinho and Maradona.
CR7 is not even top 10 in this aspect of the game. Apart from the 3 mentioned, he also gets outclassed by the likes of Zico, Pele, Best, Zidane, Bergkamp, Messi, Neymar, Baggio. Hell even Ochoka surpasses him.
2. Dribbling - R9. Even when he used flashy skills, he used them effectively and got passed defenders. CR7 will do a million useless step overs and then fall down the second someone touches him.
3. Acceleration - R9
4. Top speed - R9
Even if CR7 might have a slightly higher top speed after they run more than 60/70 meters, it's irrelevant. It's not as if one of your teammates will cross you the ball and you go running after it with just 1 opponent while the rest of his teammates watch. The most important thing is how fast you can run with a ball at your feet, and R9 is clearly superior in this department.
5. Shooting - slight edge CR7 cause he's slightly better at long shots.
6. Passing - draw. R9 has better vision, while CR7 can cross the ball better. They are pretty even in terms of short passing.
7. Strength - R9 by a mile. R9 could withstand defenders ramming into him while he had the ball at his feet. On the other hand, CR7 falls like a girl on most occasions when the opposing defenders ram him. And bare in mind he's facing La Liga defenders, which are nowhere near the level of those R9 faced.
8. Free Kicks - draw. Despite the common misconception, CR7 is not superior in this department. He had a spell at Man. United where he was scoring some nice power shots, but that's about it. His conversion rate is abysmal. As for R9, he never really cared about taking free kicks, but when he did, he was very good at it. Despite not practicing one bit.
9. Heading the ball - CR7. This is the only department where CR7 wins comfortably.
10. Stamina - CR7. And it's all got to do with his obsession for training and an impeccable life as a sportsman. Even in his prime, R9 was at the opposite spectrum. Like most Brazilian talents, he was very lazy and barely trained, he liked girls and to go out and party.

Result: R9 the clear winner.

When CR7 will also end his career, he will probably be seen as the greater player between the 2. And one can't argue against that. Despite the fact that R9 has brought Brazil a World Cup, CR7 has had more success overall. He's been playing at an incredible level for over a decade.
R9 never really achieved his potential due to his knee injuries, poor work ethic and health issues (hypothyroidism).
But prime vs prime, R9 wins hands down.

If you ignore R9's fitness and work ethic. Actually being there and playing football is so disregarded in these contexts. Ronaldo was undoubtedly one of the best footballers ever when fully fit and probably the best #9 but like say Maradona, he didn't really try his hardest to stay fit and get back to his top fitness like you see Cristiano Ronaldo work extremely hard at.

Cristiano Ronaldo has played 290 games more for his clubs than Ronaldo. That's almost the entire career of an 80's footballer of a difference there. The result of that is Cristiano Ronaldo having scored 250 goals more which is almost double the tally and of course with that him being able to drive forward his club to be more competitive resulting in more titles. Cristiano Ronaldo of course is very talented but his ridiculously unmatched work ethic and sheer determination is the reason these discussions are being had at all and we're not just talking about Messi and not anyone else all these years. Who knows, maybe Messi wouldn't have been as good if not for CRonaldo.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to consider Ronaldo > C. Ronaldo, I'm just saying that this factor of football is often hugely underrated in these comparisons. Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted footballers ever and should be talked about as such. In my mind the best ever #9 (with the caveat of me not having experienced every #9 through existence). In a single match with two fully fit players I'd probably pick Ronaldo but going into a season I'd pick CRonaldo. In other words, as a club manager I'd want CRonaldo and as a NT manager I'd want Ronaldo.

 

[Bogdannn]

If you ignore R9's fitness and work ethic. Actually being there and playing football is so disregarded in these contexts. Ronaldo was undoubtedly one of the best footballers ever when fully fit and probably the best #9 but like say Maradona, he didn't really try his hardest to stay fit and get back to his top fitness like you see Cristiano Ronaldo work extremely hard at.

And that's what makes R9 even more amazing. He never ever trained as hard as CR7, yet he reached an incredible level.

Cristiano Ronaldo has played 290 games more for his clubs than Ronaldo. That's almost the entire career of an 80's footballer of a difference there. The result of that is Cristiano Ronaldo having scored 250 goals more which is almost double the tally and of course with that him being able to drive forward his club to be more competitive resulting in more titles. Cristiano Ronaldo of course is very talented but his ridiculously unmatched work ethic and sheer determination is the reason these discussions are being had at all and we're not just talking about Messi and not anyone else all these years. Who knows, maybe Messi wouldn't have been as good if not for CRonaldo.

We all agree that CR7 will probably go down as the greater player due to his amazing longevity at the top of the game, but this is just about prime vs prime. And from this perspective, R9 wins hands down.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to consider Ronaldo > C. Ronaldo, I'm just saying that this factor of football is often hugely underrated in these comparisons. Ronaldo is one of the most naturally gifted footballers ever and should be talked about as such. In my mind the best ever #9 (with the caveat of me not having experienced every #9 through existence). In a single match with two fully fit players I'd probably pick Ronaldo but going into a season I'd pick CRonaldo. In other words, as a club manager I'd want CRonaldo and as a NT manager I'd want Ronaldo.

You're probably assuming that R9 wouldn't be able to maintain the highest level throughout a season, which is not the case. Bare in mind that CR7 has benefited from far better training, recovery conditions and nutrition.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It's time to end this silly debate once and for all. R9 has the higher peak by a country mile.

Almost all pros, pundits and people who have seen them both play in the flesh since they started their career will tell you R9 had the higher peak.
He was the closest thing to perfection you could get as a footballer: incredible technique, amazing acceleration and top speed, strong, could use both feet, he could do it all.
Only little kids who have not seen R9 play think CR7 has had a higher peak.

Even in terms of goals scoring, R9 is amazing. He was scoring almost a goal per match:
- in an era in which was oriented towards defense and scoring was way harder due to the rules that favored defenders, who could hack at opponents's feet at will;
- sometimes on muddy pitches and overall far worse playing conditions;
- against some of the best defenders of all time, who were in their prime: Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Thuram, Dessailly, Costacurta, etc
- in teams that were nowhere near as good as those CR7 has played in; for example the Inter team R9 had in 97-98 is a joke compared to CR7's Real team. Take R9 and CR7 out of the equation and pit the 97-98 Inter team against any Real team from 2012 to 2017 and the latter will win by a deficit of at least 5 or 6 goals in the worst case scenario;
- in a balanced league; the top teams back then were nowhere near as superior to the other teams in the league as Real and Barca have been for more than a decade;
- in a team that was not top 3 material before he came.

1 goal in the 90's Serie A is worth 2 or 3 in the 00's and 10's La Liga. Put prime R9 in a 2012-2017 Real team or in a 2009-2013 Barca and he'd score 100+ goals a season.

Even if you break down their attributes, R9 comes out on top:
1. Technique - R9
Btw some of you have no clue about what technique is. It's all about ball control, dribbling and skills. Some of you make it sound as if even tying one's shoes is a technique.
The only 2 players in history that are on the same level or superior to R9 in this department are Ronaldinho and Maradona.
CR7 is not even top 10 in this aspect of the game. Apart from the 3 mentioned, he also gets outclassed by the likes of Zico, Pele, Best, Zidane, Bergkamp, Messi, Neymar, Baggio. Hell even Ochoka surpasses him.
2. Dribbling - R9. Even when he used flashy skills, he used them effectively and got passed defenders. CR7 will do a million useless step overs and then fall down the second someone touches him.
3. Acceleration - R9
4. Top speed - R9
Even if CR7 might have a slightly higher top speed after they run more than 60/70 meters, it's irrelevant. It's not as if one of your teammates will cross you the ball and you go running after it with just 1 opponent while the rest of his teammates watch. The most important thing is how fast you can run with a ball at your feet, and R9 is clearly superior in this department.
5. Shooting - slight edge CR7 cause he's slightly better at long shots.
6. Passing - draw. R9 has better vision, while CR7 can cross the ball better. They are pretty even in terms of short passing.
7. Strength - R9 by a mile. R9 could withstand defenders ramming into him while he had the ball at his feet. On the other hand, CR7 falls like a girl on most occasions when the opposing defenders ram him. And bare in mind he's facing La Liga defenders, which are nowhere near the level of those R9 faced.
8. Free Kicks - draw. Despite the common misconception, CR7 is not superior in this department. He had a spell at Man. United where he was scoring some nice power shots, but that's about it. His conversion rate is abysmal. As for R9, he never really cared about taking free kicks, but when he did, he was very good at it. Despite not practicing one bit.
9. Heading the ball - CR7. This is the only department where CR7 wins comfortably.
10. Stamina - CR7. And it's all got to do with his obsession for training and an impeccable life as a sportsman. Even in his prime, R9 was at the opposite spectrum. Like most Brazilian talents, he was very lazy and barely trained, he liked girls and to go out and party.

Result: R9 the clear winner.

When CR7 will also end his career, he will probably be seen as the greater player between the 2. And one can't argue against that. Despite the fact that R9 has brought Brazil a World Cup, CR7 has had more success overall. He's been playing at an incredible level for over a decade.
R9 never really achieved his potential due to his knee injuries, poor work ethic and health issues (hypothyroidism).
But prime vs prime, R9 wins hands down.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Technique is all about ball control, dribbling and skills? What about overhead kick? Rebona pass? Diving heading/jumping technique for staying in air? Back heel pass? Knuckleball Freekick? If these are not technique, what do you call all these? something else? Or invent a new term for these? Or just “other types of techniques” which you don’t care because R9 is not as good at those?

R9’s freekick same level as CR7? Despite rarely score any, and because CR7 miss more? What logic is that? Are you on drugs or something? Do you realise CR7 has scored 78 set piece goals over his career? How many free kick has R9’s scored? A few? In fact CR7 freekick goals is nearly a quarter of R9’s career goals, which means on every 4 goals R9 scored, CR7 will score a free kick. Do you realise how crazy is that? They are literally miles apart. It’s like comparing Beckham crossing with Valencia crossing, or something.

Passing at same level? Yes Messi is easily better than Ronaldo in passing, but R9? Give me a break. CR7 has over 200 assist in his career? Thats many times more than R9? It’s not even close.

Don’t get me start on talking about scoring goals. They are literally miles apart, over their career, and at their peak. R9 absolute one-off peak season can only match with CR7 7th best season. Yes they are that far apart.

You also conveniently ignore all the other attributes such as finishing, movement, decision making, determination, leadership which are also important for forward player.

 

[Zehner]

Because you can’t see technique in football beyond ball control and dribbling.

See, there's no clear definition of technique so everyone has a different view on that. I obviously weigh in the categories you keep mentioning, too, as I already stated multiple times. However, I do asign first touch and ball control a much higher factor than heading and long shots. You seem to have a very unique view since you appear to value heading, overhead kicks, long shots much more than most other people in order to generally put CR7 ahead of R9. And that would be fine if you applied that to everyone. But I doubt you'd argue Ballack or Lampard are better technicians than Iniesta because they are better at heading, finishing, free kicks, long shots and long passing. So I'm under the impression that you simply rate these aspects of technique as much as you do because you want CR7 to be better.

By the way, Rafael van der Vaart who played and trained with Cristiano once said he has better technique than him. R9 has Zizou fawning about the things he was able to do in training years after they departed, Cristiano has Rafael fecking van der Vaart claiming he's a worse technician than him. Now that doesn't have to mean anything again depending on your personal preference but I argue that this says a lot.

 

[Bogdannn]

Technique is all about ball control, dribbling and skills? What about overhead kick? Rebona pass? Diving heading/jumping technique for staying in air? Back heel pass? Knuckleball Freekick? If these are not technique, what do you call all these? something else? Or invent a new term for these? Or just “other types of techniques” which you don’t care because R9 is not as good at those?

R9 can also do overhead kicks and so can countless others. That does not count as technique.
Rabona pass, R9 can do that as well.
Diving heading/jumping technique for staying in air? Again, that is not technique. That belongs to heading ability, a department in which I clearly stated CR7 is superior to R9.
Knuckleball Freekick. That belongs to the free kick department and again, it does not count as technique.

R9’s freekick same level as CR7? Despite rarely score any, and because CR7 miss more? What logic is that? Are you on drugs or something? Do you realise CR7 has scored 78 set piece goals over his career? How many free kick has R9’s scored? A few? In fact CR7 freekick goals is nearly a quarter of R9’s career goals, which means on every 4 goals R9 scored, CR7 will score a free kick. Do you realise how crazy is that? They are literally miles apart. It’s like comparing Beckham crossing with Valencia crossing, or something.

Perhaps you have a problem understanding the title of this thread. It's about who was better at their peak, not who has scored more free kicks throughout their career. So basically, it's all about how good they can be at executing set pieces.
Like I mentioned, R9 didn't bother to practice or take many free kicks. But he was very good at it when he did. I don't mind you giving the edge to CR7, but do it cause you consider him better at executing free kicks, not cause he has scored more.

Passing at same level? Yes Messi is easily better than Ronaldo in passing, but R9? Give me a break. CR7 has over 200 assist in his career? Thats many times more than R9? It’s not even close.

Yes, passing at the same level. Again, this is peak vs peak, not career numbers. You seem to be obsessed with stats. It does not matter how many assists CR7 has. He probably has many ATG's beat in terms of numbers, but no person out there in their right mind will ever consider CR7 a superior passer to the likes of Maradona, Zico, Platini, Laudrupp, Bergkamp, Xavi, Iniesta, etc - just because he has more assists. BTW, he has also played far more matches than probably all the ATG's I mentioned, against weaker opposition, and with far better teammates, it's only logical he's gonna have higher numbers.
It's all about passing vision and accuracy. One can give a million passes to his teammates, if they miss them he ain't gonna have an assist, will he ?
R9 has more vision in terms of passing, while CR7 is better at long crosses. So that's why they are pretty equal in my eyes.

Don’t get me start on talking about scoring goals. They are literally miles apart, over their career, and at their peak. R9 absolute one-off peak season can only match with CR7 7th best season. Yes they are that far apart.

Again, statistics are irrelevant. When you asses goal scoring, you also take into account the circumstances. Didn't you read what I said ?!? R9 faced way tougher opposition/defenders, played with far weaker teammates, on worse pitches, and in a time when rules favored defenders. 1 goal in the 90's Serie A is equal to about 2 or 3 goals in the 10's La Liga. Put CR7 in the 97-98 Inter team and he'd do well to score 15 or 20 goals. Put prime R9 in the 2010's Real team and he'd score 100 a season.

You also conveniently ignore all the other attributes such as finishing, movement, decision making, determination, leadership which are also important for forward player.

R9 is just as good at finishing, movement and decision making.
CR7 only wins in determination and maybe leadership.

 

[RedRonaldo]

See, there's no clear definition of technique so everyone has a different view on that. I obviously weigh in the categories you keep mentioning, too, as I already stated multiple times. However, I do asign first touch and ball control a much higher factor than heading and long shots. You seem to have a very unique view since you appear to value heading, overhead kicks, long shots much more than most other people in order to generally put CR7 ahead of R9. And that would be fine if you applied that to everyone. But I doubt you'd argue Ballack or Lampard are better technicians than Iniesta because they are better at heading, finishing, free kicks, long shots and long passing. So I'm under the impression that you simply rate these aspects of technique as much as you do because you want CR7 to be better.

By the way, Rafael van der Vaart who played and trained with Cristiano once said he has better technique than him. R9 has Zizou fawning about the things he was able to do in training years after they departed, Cristiano has Rafael fecking van der Vaart claiming he's a worse technician than him. Now that doesn't have to mean anything again depending on your personal preference but I argue that this says a lot.

Nah I value everything equally, as long as the attributes have similar impact to the game, they are of same value to me. The thing is you people value ball control and dribbling blindly higher than everything else by large margin, which deviates totally from the reality of football, in terms of impact on winning the game. I personally rate those criteria equally the same, more or less:

1. Shooting/ finishing/ long shot (20%) - CR7
2. Dribbling/ ball control/ first touch (15%) - R9
3. Pace/ acceleration/ movement (12%) - Tie
4. Passing/ crossing/ vision (15%) - CR7
5. Heading/ Ariel threat/ Dual won (10%) - CR7
6. Determination/leadership/decision making (10%) - CR7
7. Set piece/ freekick/ penalty/ corner (8%) - CR7
8. Consistency on highest level/ execution (10%) - CR7

Those attributes are all at similar impact on deciding the game (within 10-20% range). So obviously CR7 is better player than R9, even during their peak. The prob with R9’s fanboy here is, they would rate dribbling/ball control of 70-80% importance, and the rest 20-30% important. This deviate totally from the reality of game.

 

[broccoli]

Nah I value everything equally, as long as they have similar impact to the game, they are of same value to me. The thing is you people value ball control and dribbling blindly higher than everything else by large margin, which deviates totally from the reality of football, in terms of impact on winning the game, hence the overrating.

People here just mix technique with flair and footballing IQ. CR7 and Ronaldo have close to perfect technique, just slight differences in also different departments. What sets them out as very different players is the mental and innate aspects.

 

[Spoony]

I think folk who have seen both will pick the real Ronaldo. By this I mean people who weren't 15 or under during the Brazilian's heyday.

 

[Gehrman]

Luiz Ronaldo for natural talent and potential and Cristiano for career and fulfilled potential.

 

[Swoobs]

Nah I value everything equally, as long as the attributes have similar impact to the game, they are of same value to me. The thing is you people value ball control and dribbling blindly higher than everything else by large margin, which deviates totally from the reality of football, in terms of impact on winning the game. I personally rate those criteria equally the same, more or less:

1. Shooting/ finishing (20%) - CR7
2. Dribbling/ ball control (15%) - R9
3. Pace/ acceleration/ movement (12%) - Tie
4. Passing/ crossing (15%) - CR7
5. Heading/ Ariel threat (10%) - CR7
6. Determination/leadership/decision making (9%) - CR7
7. Set piece/ freekick/ penalty/ corner (9%) - CR7
8. Consistency on highest level/ execution (10%) - CR7

Those attributes are all at similar impact on deciding the game (within 10-20% range). So obviously CR7 is better player than R9, even during their peak. The prob with R9’s fanboy here is, they would rate dribbling/ball control of 70-80% importance, and the rest 20-30% important. This deviate totally from the reality of game.

So now im a R9 fanboy when he is not even in my personal top 10 favorite players list, just because I stated the obvious that R9 is better in tricks than CR7, and technically better (excluding the other attributes in the original list).

Since you think that cr7 has better technique/tricks than R9 due to shooting, heading etcetc, why are those things listed as seperate attributes to technique in your orginal list? Are you proposefully double counting to make cr7 look better? Why not just combine shooting crossing heading dribbling into the category technique by itself, if you think the attribute technique comprises of all those things. Whats next? Jumping technique? Dieting techniques?

This is the type of manipulative arguments that disgusts me but whatever, he is your national hero so I will not begrudge you of that.

I will just say this, looking at most of the replies in this thread on the discussion on technique and tricks, your opinion is very much a minority’s opinion and mainly for people that are portugese or supports a portugese club. Take that however you want to, im out since anymore debates with you on tricks/technique will be meaningless

 

[Gio]

Ok I am really tired of repeating myself. You keep saying he is the best kid at his age, I keep agreeing to that. But he is nowhere near best in the world during his time in Brazil league and Dutch league, the no. of goals he scored has been matched by alot of average players there. But you keep refusing to listen but instead keeping on going back saying he is best at his age, which I agree. This discussion is getting nowhere.

Ok Let me repost this again.

Dutch league record:

L.Ronaldo (18-19 years old at PSV)
94-95: 35 goals in 36 games
95-96: 19 goals in 21 games

Machlas (24 years old at Vitesse)
97:98: 34 goals in 32 games
(went to Spain once, only score 2 goals there...)

Kezmann (23-24 years old at PSV)
02-03: 40 goals in 43 games
03-04: 38 goals in 43 games
(he only managed to score 7 goals a season in England)

Alves (25 years old at Heerenveen)
06-07: 37 goals in 38 games
(he only managed to score 6-7 goals a season in England)

Kuyt (24 years old at Feyenoord)
04-05: 36 goals in 44 games
(he only manage to score 11-15 goals a season in England)

Huntelaar (24 years old at Ajax)
07-08: 36 goals in 45 games
(he only manage to score 7-8 goals a season in La Liga/Serie A)

Brazil league record:

L.Ronaldo (17-18 years old)
93: 20 goals in 21 games
94: 24 goals in 26 games

Tulio
00: 30 goals in 23 games

Guilherme
99: 28 goals

Renaldo
03: 30 goals

Washington
04: 34 goals in 38 games

(Sorry can't find much data from those stats in Brazil league, just some random names no one knows, but with more impressive records than L.Ronaldo in same league, there are lot more names than the one I listed, but I couldn't care to search all)

If L.Ronaldo records during 93-96 in Brazil and Dutch league was amazing, so were all these average players.

You have to factor in the strength of the Dutch league at the time. Before money skewed the game, the Eredivise had produced the winners of the Champions League twice in seven seasons. When Ronaldo was there, Ajax were unequivocally the best team in Europe with the majority of the famous Dutch side that went on to perform so well in 1998 and 2000 plying their trade in Holland. In 1995/96, the Dutch league had the highest coefficient of any league in Europe.

I'm sure there was some relative cannon fodder down the bottom end of the league (in the same way that all the big leagues now are heavily distorted), but we can't just look at the league the same way it is viewed in a post-2000 globalised and polarised lens. You listed various players from the late 1990s and 2000s who were top scorers, but it's probably worth looking at the players who were top scorers closer to when Ronaldo played in the league - Romario, Denis Bergkamp twice (2nd and 3rd in the Ballon D'Or both seasons), Jari Litmanen (3rd in the Ballon D'Or). All world-class attackers at the top of their game in the Dutch league.

 

[RedRonaldo]

R9 can also do overhead kicks and so can countless others. That does not count as technique.
Rabona pass, R9 can do that as well.
Diving heading/jumping technique for staying in air? Again, that is not technique. That belongs to heading ability, a department in which I clearly stated CR7 is superior to R9.
Knuckleball Freekick. That belongs to the free kick department and again, it does not count as technique.


Perhaps you have a problem understanding the title of this thread. It's about who was better at their peak, not who has scored more free kicks throughout their career. So basically, it's all about how good they can be at executing set pieces.
Like I mentioned, R9 didn't bother to practice or take many free kicks. But he was very good at it when he did. I don't mind you giving the edge to CR7, but do it cause you consider him better at executing free kicks, not cause he has scored more.


Yes, passing at the same level. Again, this is peak vs peak, not career numbers. You seem to be obsessed with stats. It does not matter how many assists CR7 has. He probably has many ATG's beat in terms of numbers, but no person out there in their right mind will ever consider CR7 a superior passer to the likes of Maradona, Zico, Platini, Laudrupp, Bergkamp, Xavi, Iniesta, etc - just because he has more assists. BTW, he has also played far more matches than probably all the ATG's I mentioned, against weaker opposition, and with far better teammates, it's only logical he's gonna have higher numbers.
It's all about passing vision and accuracy. One can give a million passes to his teammates, if they miss them he ain't gonna have an assist, will he ?
R9 has more vision in terms of passing, while CR7 is better at long crosses. So that's why they are pretty equal in my eyes.


Again, statistics are irrelevant. When you asses goal scoring, you also take into account the circumstances. Didn't you read what I said ?!? R9 faced way tougher opposition/defenders, played with far weaker teammates, on worse pitches, and in a time when rules favored defenders. 1 goal in the 90's Serie A is equal to about 2 or 3 goals in the 10's La Liga. Put CR7 in the 97-98 Inter team and he'd do well to score 15 or 20 goals. Put prime R9 in the 2010's Real team and he'd score 100 a season.


R9 is just as good at finishing, movement and decision making.
CR7 only wins in determination and maybe leadership.

Perhaps you have a problem with logical thinking.

Do you know what's the definition of technique? Technique is a method of doing something. For the Olympic runners, they have develop different techniques in running. The technique of sprinter in 100m and 800m is different too. For basketball players, not only did they need to learn how to jump high, they need to develop specific technique of staying longer in air. The technique of jumping for a basketball player, free style gymnast, or Pole vault jumper are all very different. You are mixing up the term technique with ball control and dribbling too. There are basically many different types of technique and training drills in all types of aspects in the game, and even sports.

Your logic get worst when you seriously think R9 is better in free kicks because he didn't bother to practice and take many free kicks. Do you actually know what are you talking about? He rarely score so he is good at scoring? Some fecker rarely plays golf so he is good at golf? Some random businessman rarely earns money in his business because he didbn't bother, so he is a great businesses? What the actual feck?

And what have you got to argue for R9 passing other than purely from your romanticism and nostalgia? At least I have put forward a strong case with facts, numbers and footage, what do you have?

And you are not totally wrong dreaming R9 will score 100 a season in Real. In fact R9 did score over 100s goals in one of the most famous Galacticos Real team ever in history (Zidane, L.Ronaldo, Figo, Raul, Beckham, Carlos in same team, with by far the world best midfielders support at that time). He score an amazing 104 goals in 177 games in that amazing team, took him 5 long years to achieve such amazing feat. What an amazing goalscorer. Scored 100 a 5 season, wow. Amazing.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You have to factor in the strength of the Dutch league at the time. Before money skewed the game, the Eredivise had produced the winners of the Champions League twice in seven seasons. When Ronaldo was there, Ajax were unequivocally the best team in Europe with the majority of the famous Dutch side that went on to perform so well in 1998 and 2000 plying their trade in Holland. In 1995/96, the Dutch league had the highest coefficient of any league in Europe.

I'm sure there was some relative cannon fodder down the bottom end of the league (in the same way that all the big leagues now are heavily distorted), but we can't just look at the league the same way it is viewed in a post-2000 globalised and polarised lens. You listed various players from the late 1990s and 2000s who were top scorers, but it's probably worth looking at the players who were top scorers closer to when Ronaldo played in the league - Romario, Denis Bergkamp twice (2nd and 3rd in the Ballon D'Or both seasons), Jari Litmanen (3rd in the Ballon D'Or). All world-class attackers at the top of their game in the Dutch league.

Hmm you are talking way back in late 80s and early 90s, which have nothing to do with L.Ronaldo time in the league. If Dutch league is the strongest league, top players won't all left and join other leagues at their prime, so its definitely not the case. During early 90s the Ajax team are actually very strong, but by the time it enter mid 90s all the Ajax best player had already gone for other stronger league, so you see the point. And during mid-90s onwards, they even have Nilis being the top striker, and a lad name Machlas scoring impressive 34 goals in 32 games. Hmm not really that impressed. Of course afterwards they have Ruud, who would break his leg to join us . Dutch league isn't really attractive for top players at all ever since the early-90s.