Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

[Synco]

You might be right about that, but after taking a quick look at the Brazil roster to refreshify my memory as to who was on that squad, I wouldn’t be so quick to embrace that conclusion.

Just a few names beyond Ronaldo: Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Dunga, Rivaldo and Leonardo. That’s a pretty stacked squad.

We all remember Brazil getting dismembered by France, but the chaos surrounding Ronaldo that day fekked the players. Brazil we’re headed to toe as good as what was a phenomenal France side.

Point of this is to say that even though I still give the edge to Cristiano, had “proper” Ronaldo led his side to World Cup wins this would be a different conversation. But he didn’t so it’s not.

Is there a "two" missing before "World Cup wins" by any chance? He obviously did just that four years later.

I agree that 1998 Brazil team was really good, and would have stood a chance under ideal conditions.

 

[kopviolator]

R9 a much better natural talent. Could simply do stuff others couldn't
R7 probably a better professional and obviously had statistically a better career (excluding WC)

If both were at their peek I'd pick R9 in a heartbeat

 

[U99ted]

Point of this is to say that even though I still give the edge to Cristiano, had “proper” Ronaldo led his side to World Cup wins this would be a different conversation. But he didn’t so it’s not.

What? Didn't he score both in the 2002 Final? And win Golden Boot?

 

[Gehrman]

I think it would be nicer if we just called him Original Ronaldo or maybe Ronaldo Classic. Cristiano can be New Ronaldo.

R9 never forgave Saf for calling him "The fat one".

 

[ryadmahrez]

L. Ronaldo was my biggest idol growing up, but i do think he gets romanticized by some people. Just like the defenses in the past. Defenses were less organized back then. Players had more space and time, so i dont buy that players nowadays have it easier. Your control nowadays has to be so tight. In the past your touch could be heavy and you could get away with it.

Same with Ronaldo, he was one of the best, but when i hear people say that he could dribble or pass like messi, i cringe. He was a great dribbler in the open space, but overall he didnt come close. Ronaldo wasnt perfect like some people like to put it. He was getting outscored by Bierhoff who played at Udinese in one of those peak years of his. That doesnt seem like a goat peak if bierhoff scores more than you.

 

[Zen]

When comparing goalscoring exploits.... especially in Madrid, bear in mind, Figo was the penalty taker in R9's days in substantially lower GPG scoring teams.

For instance, his 3 first seasons(league only) - they were a 2 goals per game team of which he scored 30% of.... only 2 being penalties, while Figo scored 14 pens in that time frame.

Ronaldos 2nd-4th season... RM were a 2.85gpg team... of which Ronnie scored 33%, of which 26 were penalties.

I'm also comparing seasons where R9 is wildly considered to massively on the slide and obviously post 3 year injury with more or less CR7's peak scoring years..... which are kind of, actually, never ending really.

 

[ryadmahrez]

When comparing goalscoring exploits.... especially in Madrid, bear in mind, Figo was the penalty taker in R9's days in substantially lower GPG scoring teams.

For instance, his 3 first seasons(league only) - they were a 2 goals per game team of which he scored 30% of.... only 2 being penalties, while Figo scored 14 pens in that time frame.

Ronaldos 2nd-4th season... RM were a 2.85gpg team... of which Ronnie scored 33%, of which 26 were penalties.

I'm also comparing seasons where R9 is wildly considered to massively on the slide and obviously post 3 year injury with more or less CR7's peak scoring years..... which are kind of, actually, never ending really.

how come ronaldo couldnt outscore Bierhoff in serie a in 97/98? That was pre injury, he played 32 games. Bierhoff 27 goals (2 pens), ronaldo 25 goals (6 pens). If that was one off his years which no player ever matched inyour opinion, doesnt it seem weird bierhoff outscored him. And this was Ronaldo’s best season at inter and maybe his best of his career outside of his barcelona year.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

What? Didn't he score both in the 2002 Final? And win Golden Boot?

That and the fact he won the golden boot scoring 8 goals in that tournament, he was the best player in that WC, it’s ridiculous that Kahn got voted the WC best player over a player that was the main reason Brazil won it. He was the leading scorer in WC history until Germany played Klose in games just to get the record.

He has scored 15 goals in the World Cup Finals.

Cristiano has scored 4.

R9 is by far better than Cristiano at International level.

 

[Zen]

how come ronaldo couldnt outscore Bierhoff in serie a in 97/98? That was pre injury, he played 32 games. Bierhoff 27 goals (2 pens), ronaldo 25 goals (6 pens). If that was one off his years which no player ever matched in your opinion, doesnt it seem weird bierhoff outscored him.

Where did I say this?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

how come ronaldo couldnt outscore Bierhoff in serie a in 97/98? That was pre injury, he played 32 games. Bierhoff 27 goals (2 pens), ronaldo 25 goals (6 pens). If that was one off his years which no player ever matched inyour opinion, doesnt it seem weird bierhoff outscored him. And this was Ronaldo’s best season at inter and maybe his best of his career outside of his barcelona year.

How come Cristiano couldn’t outscore Quagliarella of all people, in Serie A? Yes Cristiano wasn’t in his prime, but Bierhoff was a far better player than Quagliarella.

 

[Zen]

How come Cristiano couldn’t outscore Quagliarella of all people, in Serie A? Yes Cristiano wasn’t in his prime, but Bierhoff was a far better player than Quagliarella.

Or Anelka in 08/09 or his own team mate in 09/10? Weird ass response altogether.

 

[Lay]

how come ronaldo couldnt outscore Bierhoff in serie a in 97/98? That was pre injury, he played 32 games. Bierhoff 27 goals (2 pens), ronaldo 25 goals (6 pens). If that was one off his years which no player ever matched inyour opinion, doesnt it seem weird bierhoff outscored him. And this was Ronaldo’s best season at inter and maybe his best of his career outside of his barcelona year.

Because outliers happen. Bierhoff outscored Batistuta, Del Piero, Crespo, Totti. Does that mean they're weren't amazing? Dario Hubner finished top scorer in 2002, ahead of Crespo, Shevchenko, Vieri etc. These things happen. Bierhoff outscoring Ronaldo doesn't mean a great deal. How did Udinese play? Did their set up suit Bierhoff to a tee?

Its a weird way to argue something. Quagliarella had more goals and same assists as Cristiano had and he's like 50

 

[Lay]

That and the fact he won the golden boot scoring 8 goals in that tournament, he was the best player in that WC, it’s ridiculous that Kahn got voted the WC best player over a player that was the main reason Brazil won it. He was the leading scorer in WC history until Germany played Klose in games just to get the record.

He has scored 15 goals in the World Cup Finals.

Cristiano has scored 4.

R9 is by far better than Cristiano at International level.

Hasn't scored a knockout goal has he?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Or Anelka in 08/09 or his own team mate in 09/10? Weird ass response altogether.

Yeah very weird.

Hasn't scored a knockout goal has he?

Nope. Just for the record I do think Cristiano in his prime was better but people are talking like it is clear cut that Cristiano is easily and far better. That is not the case and I can understand why people would choose R9 over Cristiano.

 

[Sayros]

That and the fact he won the golden boot scoring 8 goals in that tournament, he was the best player in that WC, it’s ridiculous that Kahn got voted the WC best player over a player that was the main reason Brazil won it. He was the leading scorer in WC history until Germany played Klose in games just to get the record.

He has scored 15 goals in the World Cup Finals.

Cristiano has scored 4.

R9 is by far better than Cristiano at International level.

Actually, CR7 hasn't even scored a single goal in knock out games, same with Messi. It's astounding that two such high-scoring legends (who have both reached at least the semi-final in the WC during their career) have never even scored in knock out games with all of the world cups they've participated in. I think undoubtedly R9 has been better than both in international games, but that's really not that hard. 19 years old Mbappe surpassed them in his first WC, there's many players who've outperformed them both at the world cup; they just didn't set a very high bar in the world cup compared to everything else in their career so it's not really a comparison that will ever work out.

 

[ryadmahrez]

Where did I say this?

i was reading the early pages, i am sorry i mistook you for the user Zehner. He said R9 pre injury had the best peak he ever saw.

 

[ryadmahrez]

How come Cristiano couldn’t outscore Quagliarella of all people, in Serie A? Yes Cristiano wasn’t in his prime, but Bierhoff was a far better player than Quagliarella.

I meant to say, a lot of people in this thread are saying R9 pre injury was the best they ever saw. How can you the best ever, if you get outscored by Bierhoff?
Nobody is saying in the periode that CR7 was being outscored by Quagliarella CR7 was the best player they ever saw.

 

[ryadmahrez]

Because outliers happen. Bierhoff outscored Batistuta, Del Piero, Crespo, Totti. Does that mean they're weren't amazing? Dario Hubner finished top scorer in 2002, ahead of Crespo, Shevchenko, Vieri etc. These things happen. Bierhoff outscoring Ronaldo doesn't mean a great deal. How did Udinese play? Did their set up suit Bierhoff to a tee?

Its a weird way to argue something. Quagliarella had more goals and same assists as Cristiano had and he's like 50

I didnt say R9 wasnt amazing. I think Ronaldo was great, but when people say R9 pre injury was the GOAT, i think its very relevant that a guy like Bierhoff could outscore him in one of those years. The season of CR7 where Quagliarella outscored him, nobody says, they saw the GOAT in CR7 that season. So your point doesnt make sense.

R9 had 2 seasons at top level before he got injured, 1 season at barca and 1 season at Inter. Those seasons are the seasons on which those GOAT claims are based on.

R9 primary thing was goalscoring at his best, yet the GOAT at his best, couldnt outscore Bierhoff? R9 had 6 penalties, 19 goals from open play and 3 assists that year in 32 games. He was bested by Bierhoff who had 2 penalties, 25 goals from open play and 4 assists in 32 games. And both didnt become champions that year. What made him seem like the GOAT that year? His impressive sprinting and dribbling?

R9 pre injury was the GOAT for some and goalscoring was his most important trait. Yet he was bested by Bierhoff in that department in one of his 2 seasons at top level pre injury, which was actually his second best season of his whole career. It doesnt hold up to me.

 

[abundance]

I didnt say R9 wasnt amazing. I think Ronaldo was great, but when people say R9 pre injury was the GOAT, i think its very relevant that a guy like Bierhoff could outscore him in one of those years. Which was basically 1 season at barca and 1 season at Inter.

It is only relevant if you never saw him play.

 

[MrEleson]

Or Anelka in 08/09 or his own team mate in 09/10? Weird ass response altogether.

1. He didn’t play striker like Anelka did in 08/09
2. He was injured for 2 months of the season so played less league games than Higuain in 09/10 but still scored more than him in all comps.

 

[ryadmahrez]

It is only relevant if you never saw him play.

Ive seen him play a lot at his peak. Albeit very impressive, surely not the most impressive ive seen. Perhaps the GOAT physically altho he couldnt really jump, but not like an absolute genius type of player. Just a terrific goalscorer.

Just like looking back at his goals for Brasil at the World Cup’s. It felt to me like he scored al kinds of wonder goals the way people always talked about his world cup exploits, but if you go and look at it. Its mostly tap ins and 1vs1.

 

[RedRonaldo]

How come Cristiano couldn’t outscore Quagliarella of all people, in Serie A? Yes Cristiano wasn’t in his prime, but Bierhoff was a far better player than Quagliarella.

Well you are literally comparing 2nd best season of L.Ronaldo at his peak age of 22, with 15th rank season from Cristiano at his declining age of 34 (his worst one in past 15 years).

If you want to do it fair, should compare both 2nd best and 15th best season on both players:

2nd best season:
Cristiano - 60 goals in 55 games
L.Ronaldo - 34 goals in 47 games (outscored by Bierhoff in the league only, but more goals in all competitions)

15th best season:
Cristiano - 28 goals in 43 games (outscored by Quagliarella in the league only, but more goals in all competitions)
L.Ronaldo - 7 goals in 16 games (outscored by plenty of players)

So L.Ronaldo 2nd best season is actually far more comparable to Cristiano 15th best season than his 2nd best one. No wonder you are making such comparison.

 

[MrEleson]

It felt to me like he scored al kinds of wonder goals the way people always talked about his world cup exploits, but if you go and look at it. Its mostly tap ins and 1vs1.

Those Brazilian sides were so dominant that you could replace R9 with another World Class striker (particularly in '02) and they'd still win the competition. Contrary to popular belief, Rivaldo was their best overall player in 2002 in my opinion. He created so much and everything ran through him. R9 was simply there to put the finishing touches.

 

[broccoli]

While R9 had more natural talent and skill, CR7 achieved higher peak and thus is the better player. For a reason he carried Madrid to those CL wins (sure Bale gave a hand a few times). During those years all he needed was an half chance to score, from anywhere. That, in my book, makes him the better player.

 

[thepolice123]

Those Brazilian sides were so dominant that you could replace R9 with another World Class striker (particularly in '02) and they'd still win the competition. Contrary to popular belief, Rivaldo was their best overall player in 2002 in my opinion. He created so much and everything ran through him. R9 was simply there to put the finishing touches.

I thought he was performed better than Ronaldo. And this is coming from someone who was watching his first ever WC in 2002. Ronaldo had the better narrative and was the bigger star.

 

[Lay]

Those Brazilian sides were so dominant that you could replace R9 with another World Class striker (particularly in '02) and they'd still win the competition. Contrary to popular belief, Rivaldo was their best overall player in 2002 in my opinion. He created so much and everything ran through him. R9 was simply there to put the finishing touches.

Bollocks. How badly do people want to discredit R9? Brazil almost didn't qualify. They had to beat Venezuela in the last game. They lost 6 qualifiers and were seen as no hopers who would fail to reach the semi finals. The bookies gave them generous odds of 4th favourites behind Argentina, Italy and France.

They played 7 good games, that was it and arguably should have lost to Turkey in the opener where if memory serves me right, Brazil got a penalty for a foul outside the box. They lost to Paraguay in a friendly before the tournament and needed a 90 minute penalty to beat South Korea. They weren't a great side despite their names.

Rivaldo did have the better tournament but the narrative that the 2002 WC team was so dominant is bizarre. They weren't seen as a good team at all before the tournament and without Ronaldo looked average in the qualifiers. Most importantly they had Roque Junior in defence

 

[Lord SInister]

Those Brazilian sides were so dominant that you could replace R9 with another World Class striker (particularly in '02) and they'd still win the competition. Contrary to popular belief, Rivaldo was their best overall player in 2002 in my opinion. He created so much and everything ran through him. R9 was simply there to put the finishing touches.

This is bullshit.

 

[Bennz McCarthey17]

Bullshit is comparing Cristiano with R9. Pure disrespect to Cristiano, and what he has achieved in Football. You dont see these Messi vs Blah blah threads, and you wonder why. Cristiano is the most underrated GOAT in this forum, you'd swear everyone and their mama could do what he has done, only to find out it's only him and one other guy who have achieved what they have achieved in 15 bloody years.

 

[SportingCP96]

This thread is so pointless.

There is the real Ronaldo (CR7) and then there is R9.

They are not even in the same discussion.

Thats not to say R9 is not an all time great because he was brilliant but when you talk CR7 there are only 2 players close to him and that’s Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi.

Those 3 are just a whole other bracket to the rest.

 

[RedRonaldo]

That and the fact he won the golden boot scoring 8 goals in that tournament, he was the best player in that WC, it’s ridiculous that Kahn got voted the WC best player over a player that was the main reason Brazil won it. He was the leading scorer in WC history until Germany played Klose in games just to get the record.

He has scored 15 goals in the World Cup Finals.

Cristiano has scored 4.

R9 is by far better than Cristiano at International level.

Far better at WC - yes. Far better at international level? Not really. He is still arguably better based on his success/achievements, but not by far.

For a start, Brazil was far better team than Portugal, hence its easier to win more major trophies for L.Ronaldo case.

In terms of trophies, L.Ronaldo had won 1 WC and 2 Copa, Cristiano has won 1 Euro. L.Ronaldo wins.

In terms individual impact on major competition at international level, L.Ronaldo has scored 15 goals in WC (all time 2nd best), Cristiano has scored 9 goals in Euros (joint all time best). L.Ronaldo wins.

In terms of international goals, Cristiano scored far more than L.Ronaldo (102+ vs 62). Cristiano wins.

As forward/main striker of the team, you can’t be far better than someone else, when someone else from an inferior team has outscored you by far more no. of goals at international level. But yes, L.Ronaldo is arguably better at international level, but not by far.

 

[kouroux]

Far better at WC - yes. Far better at international level? Not really. He is still arguably better based on his success/achievements, but not by far.

For a start, Brazil was far better team than Portugal, hence its easier to win more major trophies for L.Ronaldo case.

In terms of trophies, L.Ronaldo had won 1 WC and 2 Copa, Cristiano has won 1 Euro. L.Ronaldo wins.

In terms individual impact on major competition at international level, L.Ronaldo has scored 15 goals in WC (all time 2nd best), Cristiano has scored 9 goals in Euros (joint all time best). L.Ronaldo wins.

In terms of international goals, Cristiano scored far more than L.Ronaldo (102+ vs 62). Cristiano wins.

As forward/main striker of the team, you can’t be far better than someone else, when someone else from an inferior team has outscored you by far more no. of goals at international level. But yes, L.Ronaldo is arguably better at international level, but not by far.

Didn't Luiz Ronaldo have a WC medal for 94 too ?

 

[Bebestation]

Some people just wet their pants over a bit of a dribbler like Messi and Fat Ronaldo because they think they are more gifted or Magical.

Far from the truth.

Messi literally had the spanish world cup team playing behind him and was utter average the moment they retired Fat Ronaldo was fat apart from 2 years.

Legends though

 

[RedRonaldo]

Didn't Luiz Ronaldo have a WC medal for 94 too ?

He didn’t play any minutes in 94 WC at all. But still get a medal as he is part of unused sub, or just happened in squad as unused backup. I am not sure if people really wants to give any credits to him as he has made 0 contribution with 0 mins played throughout competitions.

 

[MrEleson]

Bollocks. How badly do people want to discredit R9? Brazil almost didn't qualify. They had to beat Venezuela in the last game. They lost 6 qualifiers and were seen as no hopers who would fail to reach the semi finals. The bookies gave them generous odds of 4th favourites behind Argentina, Italy and France.

They played 7 good games, that was it and arguably should have lost to Turkey in the opener where if memory serves me right, Brazil got a penalty for a foul outside the box. They lost to Paraguay in a friendly before the tournament and needed a 90 minute penalty to beat South Korea. They weren't a great side despite their names.

Rivaldo did have the better tournament but the narrative that the 2002 WC team was so dominant is bizarre. They weren't seen as a good team at all before the tournament and without Ronaldo looked average in the qualifiers. Most importantly they had Roque Junior in defence

When I said dominant, I was generalising more across the 3 WC squads he was in. Maybe they weren’t as dominant in ‘02 but from what I saw, Rivaldo was more influential than R9 that tournament but didn’t receive a fraction of the plaudits. I’m not even trying to discredit R9 but the same logistics used against CR7 (nothing but a finisher) must be applied here too. There was nothing genius about R9 at the 2002 World Cup.

 

[kouroux]

He didn’t play any minutes in 94 WC at all. But still get a medal as he is part of unused sub, or just happened in squad as unused backup. I am not sure if people really wants to give any credits to him as he has made 0 contribution with 0 mins played throughout competitions.

You're right, officially it still counts is what I meant to say.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You're right, officially it still counts is what I meant to say.

Yes but it’s rather meaningless and weightless to count the competition he didn’t played at all when doing players comparison.

 

[Idxomer]

Some people just wet their pants over a bit of a dribbler like Messi and Fat Ronaldo because they think they are more gifted or Magical.

Far from the truth.

Messi literally had the spanish world cup team playing behind him and was utter average the moment they retired Fat Ronaldo was fat apart from 2 years.

Legends though

Yeah Messi and Luiz Ronaldo aren't legends

 

[lex talionis]

What? Didn't he score both in the 2002 Final? And win Golden Boot?

Yes. I wrote “wins”, the plural form of “win”. Brazil, including Ronaldo, won the World Cup in 2002 but lost in the World Cup final in 1998.

My point is that had Ronaldo lifted the WC trophy in both 1998 and 2002 the Ronaldo v Ronaldo debate would be a closer call. But as it is, it’s definitely Ronaldo — CR7, that is — for me.

 

[Raees]

He didn’t play any minutes in 94 WC at all. But still get a medal as he is part of unused sub, or just happened in squad as unused backup. I am not sure if people really wants to give any credits to him as he has made 0 contribution with 0 mins played throughout competitions.

Would be silly to give him any credit for that. It is like Pelé at 1962 but worse.

 

[GameOn]

Discussion is pretty simple: R9 was obviously the more talented player (in terms of raw offensive ability only Maradona, Pele and Messi come close) and had the higher peak, but CR7 wins in terms of professionalism and longetivity.