Rooney and his penalties

[Brightonian]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball. Carrick rarely shoots except when he sort of passes it into the net. That wouldn't cut it for a penalty. Cleverley's shooting is starting to warm up, but someone who is only just starting to be a goal threat is not a good choice for penalty taker. Anderson's finishing is very inconsistent.

At the moment, the blame has to be with the coaches. Everyone is missing them for us, so the coaching is the only common denominator.

 

[Anduin]

Has our penalty misses cost us any points thus far this season? Just asking because I can't seem to recall whether they have.

Nah. Rooney missed vs. Arsenal (2-1) and vs. West Ham (1-0), Nani vs. Galatasaray (1-0), Hernandez vs. Wigan (4-0) and RvP vs. Southampton (3-2). So, five wins in five despite the misses...

 

[Freak]

DDG for penalties anyone? Cool as ice, and very precise with his kicking.

 

[Nighteyes]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball. Carrick rarely shoots except when he sort of passes it into the net. That wouldn't cut it for a penalty. Cleverley's shooting is starting to warm up, but someone who is only just starting to be a goal threat is not a good choice for penalty taker. Anderson's finishing is very inconsistent.

At the moment, the blame has to be with the coaches. Everyone is missing them for us, so the coaching is the only common denominator.

Does it matter? In theory I agree with you, I almost shat myself when Anderson stepped up in the CL but to date he hasn't missed for us from the spot so I reckon it's worth a go

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Has our penalty misses cost us any points thus far this season? Just asking because I can't seem to recall whether they have.

We have won every game we've missed a penalty in this season, but we haven't won every game we've scored a penalty in this season (League Cup vs. Chelsea)...

Though I'd say this tells us absolutely nothing...

 

[Ish]

Thanks Anduin!

I had a feeling that was the case. I guess we've been lucky thus far (that we haven't really been punished for any of those misses!) so hopefully RvP or someone starts slotting them in consistentlyf rom now on.

 

[Ish]

Thanks AN!

It tells us we should either just not appeal for penalties, or miss the ones we do get

 

[I'm always right]

Blaming the coaches? Ha ha ha.

Craziest thing I've heard in a while.

 

[Oggmonster]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball. Carrick rarely shoots except when he sort of passes it into the net. That wouldn't cut it for a penalty. Cleverley's shooting is starting to warm up, but someone who is only just starting to be a goal threat is not a good choice for penalty taker. Anderson's finishing is very inconsistent.

At the moment, the blame has to be with the coaches. Everyone is missing them for us, so the coaching is the only common denominator.

I think that's a bit harsh on the coaching staff. I doubt many clubs practice penalties as a set drill or something unless there's a possibility of a penalty shoot out such as a CL Final, FA Cup Final etc. These players are professional footballers, the likes of Rooney, Hernandez, Van Persie, Welbeck are strikers. Giggs and Scholes have been around for years. They should be able to take a penalty fairly easily and at least hit the target. They always say there's no pressure on a keeper for a penalty because it is expected to go in.

Rooney is just very poor at them and it's no ones fault really, if you had to blame anyone you'd blame him. Some people will just be poor at penalties and he looks like one of them. I think Keane got it spot on last night, he's had his chance and clearly hasn't taken advantage of it, give someone else a go now as it is obvious he just can't take them. It's not the coaching staffs fault, I'm sure there's times in training when they take penalties but I'd be a bit surprised if any club has a whole session randomly dedicated to it.

 

[Carl]

Blaming the coaches? Ha ha ha.

Craziest thing I've heard in a while.

Indeed. When it comes to pens it's just practise practise practise. And even all of that counts for nothing if you've not got the mental capacity to deal with it.

 

[hp88]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball. Carrick rarely shoots except when he sort of passes it into the net. That wouldn't cut it for a penalty. Cleverley's shooting is starting to warm up, but someone who is only just starting to be a goal threat is not a good choice for penalty taker. Anderson's finishing is very inconsistent.

At the moment, the blame has to be with the coaches. Everyone is missing them for us, so the coaching is the only common denominator.

Your kicking a ball from 12 yards out, you don't need training for that.

 

[finneh]

Just get Rooney taking 10 penalties every day, if he misses more than 2 get Phelan to T-bag him.

He'll soon be able to deal with the pressure.

 

[Amar__]

He just steps up and hits them with force. The other week the keeper got a hand to it but it was too hard and went in. I wish we had someone who didn't try a fancy run up and would just smash it hard and low, the minimum you should be doing with a penalty is hitting the target.

Yeah, I have seen it, it was against Fulham. The thing is, if you are good at them, even if keeper read the side, he will struggle to save it.

That's why Rooney's penalties never fill me with confidence, even in those he scored most of them look saveable.

 

[Platato]

Rooney can take good penalties. As others have mentioned, he's just very inconsistent with them. For whatever reason, he chose to side foot his penalty yesterday whilst leaning back!!!

It's so weird when he can hit them into either corner with ease. Strange player is our Rooney.

 

[Ixion]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball.

Denis Irwin was our penalty taker in a team with Yorke, Cole, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Teddy and Keane.

 

[Sandikan]

someone called this a while ago, and I think it's spot on.

Rooney scores the important penalties, but often misses the ones when we're winning.

Think back to all the penalties he's taken, can anyone remember a key one missed> Ie when we weren't missing?

When he started last season in goal machine form, I'll never forget how casually he took that pen against Chelsea. He could have had 2 consecutive hatricks but for that.

He scored 2 at Chelsea when under massive pressure, and countless others in similar situations.
Fergie said last year he eases off when it's not a big game, maybe the same is true of the penalties.

I'd have VP on the pens now. A better finisher, in better form, and Rooney plays deep, so isn't getting as much finishing practice as before anyway

 

[Sassy Colin]

How many penalties has Giggs taken/scored/missed in his career? I can't remember him missing one though no doubt he must have & he doesn't take many tbf. I was kind of hoping he was going to take the one last night & it's a pity he didn't.

 

[Shimo]

What did the boss say about the penalty last night? Read a post that Fergie implied he wouldn't be taking in the future.

 

[Sassy Colin]

SAF agrees according to this:

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...n-thinks-giggs-is-his-best-penalty-taker.aspx

I could only find info on 2 he's missed in his career:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Has_Ryan_giggs_missed_a_penalty

 

[Scrumpet]

I think I'm still in shock that he scored this one

 

[Sandikan]

I think I'm still in shock that he scored this one

why? he always scores the important ones.

It's the ones when we're leading he misses a few of.

 

[Cantona'sCollar]

As said already, he has never missed a big penalty (correct me if wrong). He or Van Persie MUST be the top 2 when the penalty needs putting away, only Giggs comes close (but doesn't play enough to warrant that, although understandable if picked as he is so reliable - see Tottenham April 2010). The question is, will Rooney lose that ability to consistently put the important penalties away, if penalty duty was given to RvP/Nani/Giggs/Carrick on a week to week basis (as in, the regular matches)? That, I don't think, is something anyone can answer with definition. As silly as it sounds, it's like his insignificant misses fuel his big game penalties, that are often unsavable (see Chelsea 11/12 away).

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

SAF agrees according to this:

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...n-thinks-giggs-is-his-best-penalty-taker.aspx

I could only find info on 2 he's missed in his career:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Has_Ryan_giggs_missed_a_penalty

Giggs only started takings pens regularly last four years.

That one against Chelsea in the CL is the first one I can remember him taking since he missed against Southampton in 92 a difference of 16 years.

He's pretty good at them now mind you. Still think RVP should take them

 

[manusteve]

RVP is the best choice all things considered. Personally I would have Anderson take them but he doesn't play enough.

 

[ben_foster]

The problem is that Rooney should be our best apart from RVP. The names people are suggesting - Carrick, Cleverley, Anderson - clearly aren't the sort of players who'd be natural penalty takers. They're not decisive, powerful, consistent strikers of the ball. Carrick rarely shoots except when he sort of passes it into the net. That wouldn't cut it for a penalty. Cleverley's shooting is starting to warm up, but someone who is only just starting to be a goal threat is not a good choice for penalty taker. Anderson's finishing is very inconsistent.

At the moment, the blame has to be with the coaches. Everyone is missing them for us, so the coaching is the only common denominator.

there professional footballers you numpty.....they are not coached on how to take a penalty

 

[wr8_utd]

I would have absolutely zero confidence in Rooney in that situation, when you miss them as often as he has I don't think he can just magically turn it on for important moments.

He's taken pressure penalties at Chelsea and vs Blackburn to seal the title. He's quite good when the pressure is on.

 

[Brightonian]

Indeed. When it comes to pens it's just practise practise practise. And even all of that counts for nothing if you've not got the mental capacity to deal with it.

But that's exactly what I mean. Who's in charge of how much of their training time is spent practising penalties? The coaching staff.

I'm not having a go at them. No doubt they're as bewildered by our inability to score them at the moment as anyone else. But the solution is obvious, and it's in their hands - spend more time practising them. That's all I meant by 'blame the coaches' (or whatever less inflammatory thing I actually said).

The mental strength thing would be fair enough if it was just Rooney, who's never been the most nerveless penalty taker. But iirc RVP barely ever missed them for Arsenal, and yet he's already been missing some for us.

 

[Brightonian]

there professional footballers you numpty.....they are not coached on how to take a penalty

Is that what I said? No. I'm saying that they clearly need to spend more time practising in training sessions. Coaches are in charge of training sessions.

'You numpty.'

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Is that what I said? No. I'm saying that they clearly need to spend more time practising in training sessions. Coaches are in charge of training sessions.

'You numpty.'

I don't think you are going to focus on penalties unless you have a Final coming up, down to the player for me. As a professional I expect you to be able to put a ball on a postage stamp from 12 yards.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I don't think someone like Graham Alexander for example was a great penalty taker because Burnley focussed on penalties all the time in training.

 

[Brightonian]

I don't think you are going to focus on penalties unless you have a Final coming up, down to the player for me. As a professional I expect you to be able to put a ball on a postage stamp from 12 yards.

Agreed. But given that our professionals can't at the moment... more practise needed. It's really not rocket science. Someone has to try and actually stop this run of bad ones, rather than just moaning on that a professional should be able to do it easily.

That said, maybe they have been working on it and we've just had an unfortunate run of bad ones. RVP, certainly, doesn't seem to have changed his approach or anything. Rooney's are more likely to be part of a pattern because he doesn't seem to have a way of hitting them any more. All the best pen-takers are confident in their ability to slot it hard and fast inside either post, and just do that every single time. Rooney should be aiming for that, I think, rather than always lifting it, because he risks either ballooning it like with the last one, or putting it at a nice saveable height.

I don't think someone like Graham Alexander for example was a great penalty taker because Burnley focussed on penalties all the time in training.

Again, that's all well and good, but it doesn't suggest an approach to actually solving our problems with penalties. Practise does.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Agreed. But given that our professionals can't at the moment... more practise needed. It's really not rocket science. Someone has to try and actually stop this run of bad ones, rather than just moaning on that a professional should be able to do it easily.

That said, maybe they have been working on it and we've just had an unfortunate run of bad ones. RVP, certainly, doesn't seem to have changed his approach or anything. Rooney's are more likely to be part of a pattern because he doesn't seem to have a way of hitting them any more. All the best pen-takers are confident in their ability to slot it hard and fast inside either post, and just do that every single time. Rooney should be aiming for that, I think, rather than always lifting it, because he risks either ballooning it like with the last one, or putting it at a nice saveable height.



Again, that's all well and good, but it doesn't suggest an approach to actually solving our problems with penalties. Practise does.

Never liked Rooney as a penalty taker, never had the right body language for it. Never struck me as the type to stay behind and practice either, I reckon they should have a penalty shootout challenge to find the designated taker. RVP has to be the one for me.

 

[Brightonian]

Never liked Rooney as a penalty taker, never had the right body language for it. Never struck me as the type to stay behind and practice either, I reckon they should have a penalty shootout challenge to find the designated taker. RVP has to be the one for me.

Yup, RVP without a doubt. He's got all the natural attributes, technical and mental.

I bloody hope Rooney is spending a bit of extra time working on them, though. It's the sort of thing you should be able to expect from someone earning the absurd amount of money he is. Ronaldo was a superbly naturally gifted penalty taker, but by all accounts he was also an obsessive, hard-working perfectionist who would stay behind regularly to practise his pens and free kicks. Rooney could take a few leaves out of his book.

 

[shaggy]

Yeah Ronaldo missed due to the pressure, not because of his technique. Rooney just doesn't have very good penalty technique which evidently needs changing.

 

[Nighteyes]

What was RVp's record like for Arsenal?

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Yup, RVP without a doubt. He's got all the natural attributes, technical and mental.

I bloody hope Rooney is spending a bit of extra time working on them, though. It's the sort of thing you should be able to expect from someone earning the absurd amount of money he is. Ronaldo was a superbly naturally gifted penalty taker, but by all accounts he was also an obsessive, hard-working perfectionist who would stay behind regularly to practise his pens and free kicks. Rooney could take a few leaves out of his book.

The difference for me has always been dedication, Ronaldo is a physical beast whereas Rooney reminds me of Ricky Hatton. Rooney's penalty style is very practiced if it makes sense, not natural or confident at all.

 

[Brightonian]

The difference for me has always been dedication, Ronaldo is a physical beast whereas Rooney reminds me of Ricky Hatton. Rooney's penalty style is very practiced if it makes sense, not natural or confident at all.

I'd say it used to be like that, but now the problem is that it doesn't look natural or practised. That's what I meant about slotting it into either bottom corner - plenty of the best penalty takers look practised rather than natural, but they look really practised. Rooney doesn't seem to know what to do with it at the moment.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

I'd say it used to be like that, but now the problem is that it doesn't look natural or practised. That's what I meant about slotting it into either bottom corner - plenty of the best penalty takers look practised rather than natural, but they look really practised. Rooney doesn't seem to know what to do with it at the moment.

Aye there's no conviction, which you'd attribute to lack of practise but I would back Giggsy to step up and slot that penalty without any practise.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

You ask of at least one thing from a penalty taker - get it on target. He's put a few wide and this time, over which is clearly the main issue. If he hit a couple of tame ones that were saved, I don't think Sir Alex would've said much about it..but to completely miss is almost bordering on unacceptable.

 

[Platato]

It's weird though because Rooney seemingly forces himself to have some conviction on any penalties that are a crucial point in the match (3-3 draw at the bridge last season).