Rooney vs Nani

[Pogue Mahone]

By my reckoning he's scored 7 (and missed 3?), which means he's still scored at a rate of better than 1 in 2 and he scores or assists at a rate of 0.75 per game compared to Nani's 0.62 which is still a pretty significant difference. That means people think he contributes more to our team's overall play which definitely surprises me.

Let's not forget that this comparison you're doing includes an entire half season which would probably go down as the worst in Rooney's United career, for reasons that had nothing to do with his ability as a footballer.

Compare them in the current season so far and I reckon Rooney would be even more comfortably ahead. A pattern that goes back all the way to Nani's first season with United. Strange that so many people think this pattern will be turned on it's head over the next two years. Don't see it myself.

 

[neno]

Take Rooney out of the side, and we will be hopeless. Two seasons ago, we capitulated during the run-in because of an injury to Rooney.

Nani was not even a part of our best side in the run-in last season. He was on the bench. Instead, a player as ordinary as Park was preferred to him. Nani is not yet indispensable.

I feel Nani is overrated because of his wonderful ball control. This is nice on the eye, but Rooney is a far more influential figure, and is always key in the most important matches.

utter bullshit! yeah so against barca nani came on and did what neither park or valencia could for the whole game, almost score a goal. to leave nani on the bench for that game was just as dumb as to pit a combo of giggs + carrick against barca.

 

[jojojo]

Nani was not even a part of our best side in the run-in last season. He was on the bench. Instead, a player as ordinary as Park was preferred to him. Nani is not yet indispensable.

You mean for the CL final? We lost.

 

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by johnmufc View Post
Take Rooney out of the side, and we will be hopeless.

So you're basically saying we are a one man team.Bit disrespectful to the rest of the team.

 

[Jaap]

I'd like to know, who do the other teams, especially our rivals or even the upper half of the Premier League, fear more? Nani or Rooney?

 

[noodlehair]

This place is strange sometimes.

It's not really like either of them are kids still learning the trade anymore. They'll both improve in certain areas with more and more experience, but saying Nani will be better in two years surely requires you to think Rooney is going to fall off the wagon at some point quite soon, which is a strange thing to predict unless you believe stuff journalists just make up.

Either that or people think Nani is a better player now, but I don't really get that either. There have been spells where Nani has been better, most notably the first half of last season, but all in all Rooney's got much more to his game...it's only his self induced inconsitency which keeps him from being up there just behind Ronaldo, and Nani's probably every bit as inconsistent anyway, just more random with when bad Nani decides to show up.

 

[Zen]

You mean for the CL final? We lost.

No he means in the run up to the CL final, which they consistently won and why that team was picked for the final..against Chelsea and other important games with Valencia Giggs Carrick and Park as the midfield.

 

[Hectic]

This place is strange sometimes.

It's not really like either of them are kids still learning the trade anymore. They'll both improve in certain areas with more and more experience, but saying Nani will be better in two years surely requires you to think Rooney is going to fall off the wagon at some point quite soon, which is a strange thing to predict unless you believe stuff journalists just make up.

Either that or people think Nani is a better player now, but I don't really get that either. There have been spells where Nani has been better, most notably the first half of last season, but all in all Rooney's got much more to his game...it's only his self induced inconsitency which keeps him from being up there just behind Ronaldo, and Nani's probably every bit as inconsistent anyway, just more random with when bad Nani decides to show up.

Well, I suppose it would be down to Rooney having developed at a certain rate over a long period, compared to Nani's burst which is far more recent. In that sense, it's likely to expect Nani to continue to develop his game at a faster rate, or at least that's the thinking behind it. Three years ago there wasn't a huge difference between Wayne then, and Wayne now, compared that to Nani and how he was before.

I don't think Nani is as inconsistent as Wayne, and neither do his inconsistent spells last as long. That aside, the more important aspect is the bottom level, and how Wayne's is worse. He is anonymous when he's having a bad one, and usually it's evident in all aspects of his game. With Nani he's more involved, I can't remember many performances where he's been completely invisible or so many bits of his game have deserted him.

 

[Ash_G]

Well, I suppose it would be down to Rooney having developed at a certain rate over a long period, compared to Nani's burst which is far more recent. In that sense, it's likely to expect Nani to continue to develop his game at a faster rate, or at least that's the thinking behind it. Three years ago there wasn't a huge difference between Wayne then, and Wayne now, compared that to Nani and how he was before.

I don't think Nani is as inconsistent as Wayne, and neither do his inconsistent spells last as long. That aside, the more important aspect is the bottom level, and how Wayne's is worse. He is anonymous when he's having a bad one, and usually it's evident in all aspects of his game. With Nani he's more involved, I can't remember many performances where he's been completely invisible or so many bits of his game have deserted him.

That's exactly how I feel about Nani and Rooney. Rooney on form is our best player but his form swings wildly and when he's not having a good day his game suffers a lot. As you said with Nani his base level is a lot higher. He might not get his crosses perfect or his shots, but his touch, dribbling and interplay are still there and he's still a big threat. Rooney doesn't even have the work rate advantage anymore as Nani has become very hard working.

I think right now Rooney has a slight edge when they're both on form but I think Nani is catching up fast and I wouldn't be surprised if he over takes him sooner rather than later.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You mean for the CL final? We lost.

The run in featured more than one game.

 

[noodlehair]

Well, I suppose it would be down to Rooney having developed at a certain rate over a long period, compared to Nani's burst which is far more recent. In that sense, it's likely to expect Nani to continue to develop his game at a faster rate, or at least that's the thinking behind it. Three years ago there wasn't a huge difference between Wayne then, and Wayne now, compared that to Nani and how he was before.

I don't think Nani is as inconsistent as Wayne, and neither do his inconsistent spells last as long. That aside, the more important aspect is the bottom level, and how Wayne's is worse. He is anonymous when he's having a bad one, and usually it's evident in all aspects of his game. With Nani he's more involved, I can't remember many performances where he's been completely invisible or so many bits of his game have deserted him.

I don't really agree that Rooney has a worse bottom level

When Nani has a bad game, it usually consists of him dicking around with the bal needlessly and pissing off his team mates, and doing absolutely nothing useful what so ever...until Fergie gets so fed up he hauls him off with 20 minutes to go.

When Rooney has a poor game, he's extremely annoying, and his second touch often ends up being a failed attempt to control his first touch, but then occasionally he does something like score a ridiculous bicycle kick ten minutes from the end, or suddenly score a hatrick in the second half when we're 2-0 down to West Ham. He'll also still create space for and find team mates more than most of our other players.

I find Rooney more frustating because I think he's better than any of our other players, but too often causes his own problems and then lets them affect him too easily, but I can't see Nani being better than him in two years. It'd take a Ronaldo-esque style burst of sustained improvement for that to happen...either that or for Rooney to lose his way, and for all the nonsense written about him, I don't see that...he'll possibly never be as good or consistent as he should be but that's a different thing to going all Gascoigne.

 

[I'm always right]

No he means in the run up to the CL final, which they consistently won and why that team was picked for the final..against Chelsea and other important games with Valencia Giggs Carrick and Park as the midfield.

Well we all know that was because Carragher took Nani out when he was in great form, after that the team played well and it was tough for Nani to get back into form.

But you can make "more of it" if it suits.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, I suppose it would be down to Rooney having developed at a certain rate over a long period, compared to Nani's burst which is far more recent. In that sense, it's likely to expect Nani to continue to develop his game at a faster rate, or at least that's the thinking behind it. Three years ago there wasn't a huge difference between Wayne then, and Wayne now, compared that to Nani and how he was before.

I don't think Nani is as inconsistent as Wayne, and neither do his inconsistent spells last as long. That aside, the more important aspect is the bottom level, and how Wayne's is worse. He is anonymous when he's having a bad one, and usually it's evident in all aspects of his game. With Nani he's more involved, I can't remember many performances where he's been completely invisible or so many bits of his game have deserted him.

That logic only works if you ignore the fact that Nani's dramatic improvement last season hasn't even continued throughout this season, never mind a hypothetical two years in the future.

 

[I'm always right]

By my reckoning he's scored 7 (and missed 3?), which means he's still scored at a rate of better than 1 in 2 and he scores or assists at a rate of 0.75 per game compared to Nani's 0.62 which is still a pretty significant difference. That means people think he contributes more to our team's overall play which definitely surprises me.

Erm, one is a striker FYI.

 

[Hectic]

The bigger point being that his development towards a higher level started at a much later stage than Rooney's. It's not to say it's a permanent steady rise.

 

[Zen]

Well we all know that was because Carragher took Nani out when he was in great form, after that the team played well and it was tough for Nani to get back into form.

But you can make "more of it" if it suits.

More of what....he was fit and didn't play in the most important games, including the CL, i was simply clearing that up for him.

You can read "more into" my posts if you want, but I don't post in riddles.

 

[Zen]

Erm, one is a striker FYI.

They play on the same line actually since we play 4231, with Nani spending more time further forward.

 

[jojojo]

This place is strange sometimes.

It's not really like either of them are kids still learning the trade anymore. They'll both improve in certain areas with more and more experience, but saying Nani will be better in two years surely requires you to think Rooney is going to fall off the wagon at some point quite soon, which is a strange thing to predict unless you believe stuff journalists just make up.

Either that or people think Nani is a better player now, but I don't really get that either. There have been spells where Nani has been better, most notably the first half of last season, but all in all Rooney's got much more to his game...it's only his self induced inconsitency which keeps him from being up there just behind Ronaldo, and Nani's probably every bit as inconsistent anyway, just more random with when bad Nani decides to show up.

I think you're right, which is why I'm surprised that I voted Nani. So I'll try and explain how I got there. On average I think Nani's a better player, on his day I think Rooney's one of the best in the world. As a result I'd keep picking Rooney for the team and keep hoping it's one of his good days.

The trouble is the longer we wait for good days, the more doubtful I get about the "he has to play - he's our best player" equation and the more suspicious I get about the future. Two years? A lot can happen in two years, but two years ago I didn't really think that there would be any doubt.

A good game against Liverpool and I'll probably change my mind again.

 

[jojojo]

The run in featured more than one game.

He started 7 of the last 10, presumably because SAF was hoping he could both do a job and play himself back to form/fitness. If he'd managed to get it back, who knows what the selection would have been.

 

[I'm always right]

They play on the same line actually since we play 4231, with Nani spending more time further forward.

Nani is a winger mate.

 

[I'm always right]

More of what....he was fit and didn't play in the most important games, including the CL, i was simply clearing that up for him.

You can read "more into" my posts if you want, but I don't post in riddles.

Nani would've played in the run-in had Carragher not fecked up his season, that much is obvious as he was our best player up until that point.

 

[Zen]

Nani is a winger mate.

I'm glad you know, such a shame you can't to seem to figure out that in a 4231....rooney and nani play on the same line then....Rooney isn't a striker this year.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He started 7 of the last 10, presumably because SAF was hoping he could both do a job and play himself back to form/fitness. If he'd managed to get it back, who knows what the selection would have been.

I'm guessing it's only 7 out of 10 if you ignore CL games?

To be honest, I'm not reading much into Nani being dropped for so many key games. He had a dip in form. It happens. He's a better player than Park regardless.

Still, I can't see Fergie deciding Rooney is surplus to requirements in games like those. Not this season. Not in two years time. And that's with much more talented players than Park competing for his place in the team.

 

[I'm always right]

I'm glad you know, such a shame you can't to seem to figure out that in a 4231....rooney and nani play on the same line then....Rooney isn't a striker this year.

The stats started back in 2010.

 

[I'm always right]

Still, I can't see Fergie deciding Rooney is surplus to requirements in games like those. Not this season. Not in two years time. And that's with much more talented players than Park competing for his place in the team.

No, he'll just move Rooney to a position he isn't good at, I mean, it hasn't worked twice before in the CL final, may as well give it a 3rd try eh.

If you think SAF made the correct decisions in that final, you're blinded by his brilliance.

Considering Rooney's play in both the previous CL finals.. SAF should've dropped him.

The difference with Rooney and Nani is that SAF fits Rooney into the team because if he didn't in a CL final, he'd be off, you can be sure of that.

 

[Zen]

The stats started back in 2010.

So you have about what 4 months at the beginning of 2010 and slightly at the start of 10/11 when Rooney was actually playing as a striker....and then another 15 months or so taking out summer breaks wheres he's been played far deeper in a 4231. Stop making pointless excuses.

 

[Laphroaig]

Hectic, your constant undermining of Rooney is unbearable.

Give over. If one of you has a Rooney agenda of some sort, it's obviously you: To even dare to ask if Rooney might not be our bestest and superduperest player in two years time is to undermine (not simply to underrate, but even to undermine) Rooney. Loco.

Oh bollocks, fifth page already. This has probably been dealt with in painstaking detail. I might delete this post.

 

[I'm always right]

So you have about what 4 months at the beginning of 2010 and slightly at the start of 10/11 when Rooney was actually playing as a striker....and then another 15 months or so taking out summer breaks wheres he's been played far deeper in a 4231. Stop making pointless excuses.

The excuse is valid, one plays out wide, the other plays in the middle.

We started with a true 4231 when Hernandez came to the fore, that makes 12 months and 12 months. Before then it was much more 442.

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Nani would've played in the run-in had Carragher not fecked up his season, that much is obvious as he was our best player up until that point.

Don't see this.

United's form in the run was directly due to Fergie finding his best and most consistent eleven with the Giggs/Carrick combo, Valencia/Park on the wings and Rooney behind Hernandez. It was the best set of team performances of the season and only came up short in the Barca final. That side comprehensively outplayed Chelsea 3 times. Nani was out of the side abit like Berba, because the team unit seemed to gel better at the time. Injury did not help but Valencia and Park were in excellent form in the big game aside from Barca.

 

[I'm always right]

Don't see this.

United's form in the run was directly due to Fergie finding his best and most consistent eleven with the Giggs/Carrick combo, Valencia/Park on the wings and Rooney behind Hernandez. It was the best set of team performances of the season and only came up short in the Barca final. That side comprehensively outplayed Chelsea 3 times.

Park/Valencia wouldn't have had chance to get into the team ahead of Nani considering how he was playing, obviously!

 

[kouroux]

There isn't a single player whose the absence will make the team go "hopeless".United (thanks to SAF) always adapts when one of it big players leaves.
Rooney is a very good player and currently important one but no one is irreplaceable except the coach

 

[Ole'sbodyguard]

Park/Valencia wouldn't have had chance to get into the team ahead of Nani considering how he was playing, obviously!

Nani only missed one match due to that tackle. He was in the starting eleven for the home leg for Marseille before Valencia had started a game since his injury. Valencia came on for him after an hour.

 

[I'm always right]

Nani only missed one match due to that tackle.

I think we all know he came back from that horror tackle quickly, but far from ready.

Rooney also came back from that Munich injury after one week, that was also a silly decision.

 

[Cina]

I generally agree with everything Hectic says about Nani and this thread has been no exception. Spot on.

I think he's marginally better and more consistent now, yet less influential than Rooney is. It's a very fine line, Rooney at his best is probably still better than Nani at his worst, but on the other end, Rooney at his worst is way worse than Nani at his worst.

2 years from now? Definitely Nani for me.

 

[Tibs]

Nani

If Rooney had the amount of bad tackles and fouls coming to him as Nani does, he'd be suspended for half the season I reckon

 

[Zen]

The excuse is valid, one plays out wide, the other plays in the middle.

We started with a true 4231 when Hernandez came to the fore, that makes 12 months and 12 months. Before then it was much more 442.

Yeah and wingers have usually had a statistical advantage(if including assists) over players behind the striker.

And no it's really not 50/50 and I think you know it. For starters out of the 88 games in those stats listed, 25 are from this year, 3 of which he played CM in, and then 30 in the tail end of last year playing with Hernandez.


Also whats with this "Rooney at his worst is far worst than Nani".....well if thats true(it really isn't, they can be equally as bad), i'm gonna go with Rooney having an average game by his standards is far superior to Nani having an average one.

 

[I'm always right]

Yeah and wingers have usually had a statistical advantage(if including assists) over players behind the striker.

Oh yeah, Del Piero and Totti always struggled there. Bergkamp struggled too. The list goes on... pure nonsense on your part Zen.

i'm gonna go with Rooney having an average game by his standards is far superior to Nani having an average one.

You can go with it, but it'd be ridiculously OTT.

Why not just say "Rooney's average is better than Nani's average", saying it the way you did just make it look rather pathetic.

 

[Zen]

Oh yeah, Del Piero and Totti always struggled there. Bergkamp struggled too. The list goes on... pure nonsense on your part Zen.



You can go with it, but it'd be ridiculously OTT.

Why not just say "Rooney's average is better than Nani's average", saying it the way you did just make it look rather pathetic.

I never said anyone struggled there....i said wingers had a statistical advantage....lrn2read yeah? Instead of going to stupid comparisons again and again and again. Neither Del Piero nor Totti really had a world class winger playing with, but both Overmars and Pires out did Bergkamp in terms of assists+goals, as did Nedved if you count him.



And yes, I said it with the sole intention of being OTT as saying Rooney as his worst is "FAR" worst than Nanis worst isn't true.

 

[I'm always right]

I never said anyone struggled there....i said wingers had a statistical advantage

And that is the nonsense part. Complete garbage.

 

[I'm always right]

Fabregas, Gerrard, Totti, Del Piero, Bergkamp, all players in the hole, all had an advantage over their wingers due to playing in the role.

A good example is: Gerrard on the wing had ok assist stats, rubbish goals stats, in the middle both were greatly improved.