Roy Keane's performance vs Juventus

[Nighteyes]

I agree. For me, people got carried away with the narrative. Not that he didn't play well. He was brilliant but watching it back, Beckham was clearly the best player out on the pitch. We were fantastic on the whole though. Scored 3 but could have easily been 5/6 that day.

Also, worth pointing out that Juve were far from their best and far from the dominating presence of the previous years. They had Del Piero out, Lippi was sacked and ended up finishing 7th in the league (their worst season for almost a decade).

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

People are so cynical. A certain performance has to be the best. Why not Keanes against Juve?

I'll go all in and say if we would have had that level of performance from a central midfield player in either of the finals against Barca, we may have won.

It was great. In a day and age where people focus on goal returns and passing stats, sure, it may not have been Keanes best game. Maybe he controlled a game for 90 minutes on time, and scored in a 1-0 win against mid-table opposition and considers that his best game.

So what.

We were 2-0 down against a fabulous Juventus team on their own turf after being outplayed in the first leg. He scored the first and played out of his skin. There's the romance of the yellow card and missing the final. It was one of my finest moments spent as a United fan.

Not really too fussed if everyone else loved it as much as I did but there's my two cents.

 

[RedorDead21]

And still all my Arsenal friends say vieira was a far better player. As a full package no contest for me

 

[dirtygringo]

My dad hates united. and he really hated our teams in the 90s. Couldn't stand their arrogance and had special contempt for Keane. Until that night. I watched the game with him, me cheering united, him cheering Juve. He was never as impressed with a footballer as he was that night. Now, when anyone is being praised for playing well, he'll say 'meh, hes no Roy Keane'.

 

[John Keiler]

In general I'd agree. Keane played very, very well especially in the personal circumstances.

To come back from such a terrible position away to Juve (in effect, the Barca of their day) was remarkable and Keane's leadership, goal scoring and consistent excellence was a big part of why the comeback happened. But Giggs late equaliser in the first leg, as well as our dynamic forward line were very important.

People do mythologise the past, there's lots of examples:
1. Keane - seemingly reduced to a midfield enforcer "DM" in the minds of many (mainly younger) fans
2. Scholes - retconned into a guaranteed starter, despite the fact that it wasn't until the early 2000s that he truly cemented a place in the staring 11 (Butt preferred, Veron, Ronnie, etc) save the year of Keane's horror injury, no matter how many Zidane rent-a-quotes you throw out there.
3. Barthez - apparently a disaster, and whilst it didn't end well, he was fantastic for at least his first season.

To that I would add 'Beckham - he never tracked back to help out his fullback'.

Having watched him many, many times I can honestly say that he used to work his socks off up and down that wing. The work with Gaz seemed almost telepathic at times

 

[El Jefe]

Madness, how can you question that performance as being anything other than legendary. We were 2-0 down away from home after 12 minutes against one of the best teams in Europe. yes maybe a couple of players also had great games by the time the final whistle blew but that's only because Keane refused to let the head drop. It was a Captains performance not just in terms of football but also in terms of setting an example to the team.

In real time people talked about Keane's impact being amazing and the stuff of legend but now nearly 20 years later you believe your hazy memories as a 12 year old are more insightful.

I don't doubt for a second that it was a great performance but I believe it was a legendary team performance rather than an individual performance.

I really do think at least 3 other players had a 10/10 performance in that game so even if Keane was the best player on the night which is highly debatable its still far off being an individual performance.

Think of the game vs Chelsea at OT in 2011 where Chicharito scored after 1min. About 7 players had a 10/10 game so it would be wrong to call it an individual performance from Park for instance. Obviously the pressure and importance of both games are very different but the basis of my point is whats more important.

 

[Gio]

To that I would add 'Beckham - he never tracked back to help out his fullback'.

Having watched him many, many times I can honestly say that he used to work his socks off up and down that wing. The work with Gaz seemed almost telepathic at times

Is that really a myth? I thought it was commonly understood that Beckham was full of graft.

 

[GBBQ]

I don't doubt for a second that it was a great performance but I believe it was a legendary team performance rather than an individual performance.

I really do think at least 3 other players had a 10/10 performance in that game so even if Keane was the best player on the night which is highly debatable its still far off being an individual performance.

Think of the game vs Chelsea at OT in 2011 where Chicharito scored after 1min. About 7 players had a 10/10 game so it would be wrong to call it an individual performance from Park for instance. Obviously the pressure and importance of both games are very different but the basis of my point is whats more important.

But its about the overall performance, not just what he did with the football but how he dragged the team back into the game. he was the catalyst to allow players have stand out performances by not letting the heads drop after going down 2-0.

This is a team we were lucky to draw with 1-1 at old Trafford. A team with world class players and enough about them to see us off. but Keane said feck that we're winning. even after he knew he wouldn't make the final.

Its not belittling the performance of others that night, the whole team had to get on Keane's wavelength to overcome the deficit. But Keane was undoubtedly the architect.

Legendary, end of.

 

[Moby]

I agree on a lot of your points but do we say because of a fairy tale narrative that the performance should be rated higher than Yorke's for example?. That's what I'm not sure I agree on. Several players played a blinder but to this day Keane gets lavished with the plaudits as if it was a one man show.

I don't agree with your premise that it has to be a one-man show for it to be a perfect performance. 10/10 means you delivered everything that can be asked for from a player playing in your role and position, mentally, technically and physically, period. It doesn't matter if other are also playing well.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Is that really a myth? I thought it was commonly understood that Beckham was full of graft.

It is . He was always perceived to be one of the fittest footballers anywhere in the world and his stats always showed he ran more than anyone . What I never realized though was his acceleration, there are some clips of him in the video of keanes performance where he looks incredibly fast ( maybe just a slow juve player , I couldn't work out if it was tacchinardi)

 

[Rory 7]

This will probably be a very unpopular opinion but reading through the "10/10 performance" thread I felt this would merit its own discussion. When talking about great Manchester United performances, Keane's against Juve in Turin is often seen as the greatest performance by a United player and in some quarters any player in recent times.

Now I'd be clinically insane to say that it was not a great performance but my gripe with the common opinion on this match is that it was an 'individual performance' where Keane was head and shoulders better than everyone else on the pitch. That to me is an absolute false representation of the game and the myth seems to have grown bigger over the years. I think the fact that he scored our first goal and produced such a display knowing he wouldn't play in the final is what creates this myth of an individual great performance.

An individual performance IMO is one where a player is so clearly better than everyone else on the pitch e.g Messi vs Bayern where he butchered Boateng and many others. I've rewatched the game many times and really do think its one of the greatest TEAM performances rather than an individual performance. Yorke, Cole, Butt, Becks and Keane could have all got 10/10 for that performance because all were unplayable especially the front two. Juve's world class defenders shat themselves every time they got the ball.

I was 12 at the time and have fond memories of the game. I guess you could say I was too young appreciate the true impact of the performance at the time. On the other hand the evidence from rewatching the game a few times doesn't point towards being an individual performance.

I think you are missing the point about the quality of the the performance. Others played well too of course. But Keane drove them on and did more than anybody else to drag us back into that game. The fact is if Keane hadn't been on the pitch that night there would be no treble.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I think you are missing the point about the quality of the the performance. Others played well too of course. But Keane drove them on and did more than anybody else to drag us back into that game. The fact is if Keane hadn't been on the pitch that night there would be no treble.

Don't subscribe to that , you could argue that if keane wasn't on the pitch we could have won 4-0 due to a different play style .

Watch the video , it's every touch he had in the game , is it REALLY a 10/10 performance ?

 

[Rado_N]

Some people would over analyse the Mona Lisa to the point it was no better than a kid's crayon picture on the fridge.

 

[Cutch]

To that I would add 'Beckham - he never tracked back to help out his fullback'.

Having watched him many, many times I can honestly say that he used to work his socks off up and down that wing. The work with Gaz seemed almost telepathic at times

No one ever said that surely

 

[Needham]

These things get mythologised throught the mists of time. My clear recollection is of Keane hiding for large parts of the game and crying like a baby when he was booked.

 

[All 3 United]

I was there for there for that match. Best game I have ever been to (and I went to the final). Keane was absolutely incredible, he dragged us into the final. What a player he was.

 

[gav81]

Watch the video , it's every touch he had in the game , is it REALLY a 10/10 performance ?

The trouble is, watching only the touches of the ball doesn't demonstrate the influence Keane had on the team performance that night - he was the catalyst, no doubt about it.

There are different reasons for a 10/10 rating. For a forward it might be that he is unplayable and scores a hat trick against a solid defence. For a defender it might be that he is unbeatable and keeps out a top quality attack. For a midfielder, it might be this....

"It was the most emphatic display of selflessness I have seen on a football field. Pounding over every blade of grass, competing as if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose, he inspired all around him. I felt such an honour to be associated with such a player."
~Alex Ferguson on Roy Keane's performance in the 1999 Champions League semi-final​

Then again, this wasn't unusual for Keane.

Andy Cole described Keane's driving force in United's group stage match against Barcelona the same season: -

"He simply refused to contemplate the idea of defeat to a side rated as the best in the world in their home stadium.

"He would not entertain that idea and drove that team forward. He even set up a goal for Yorke to score as we drew 3-3 on the way to winning the competition, though Yorke could have scored six and it would not have been enough for Roy.

"His motivation worked. He only wanted the best."​

So to be fair, the performance was almost normal for Keane and it is probably the nature of the semi-final victory, leading the team to victory from the jaws of defeat, that took Keane's rating from 9.5/10 to maximum marks.

Incidentally, it is interesting to look at some of the midfield names Keane and United overcame in that season's competition, amongst others...

• Luis Enrique at Barcelona
• Diego Simeone at Inter
• Antonio Conte at Juventus

All captains and leaders who drove their team on and would go back to manage the club where they achieved legendary status in their playing career.

Likewise, will Roy Keane, the most successful and influential captain in the club's history, one day be offered the chance to inspire again, as manager of Manchester United?

 

[NK86]

These things get mythologised throught the mists of time. My clear recollection is of Keane hiding for large parts of the game and crying like a baby when he was booked.

People may argue whether it was a 10/10 performance, but your recollection of the game only shows your memory is very poor.

 

[NK86]

I remember talking about this game with an Arsenal supporting mate of mine and all he said was - "you didn't win because of Ferguson that day, you won it because of Keane. If ever there can be an example of a captain's performance, that was it".

And this was coming from a guy who absolutely loathes us.

 

[adexkola]

Some people would over analyse the Mona Lisa to the point it was no better than a kid's crayon picture on the fridge.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Gio]

Don't subscribe to that , you could argue that if keane wasn't on the pitch we could have won 4-0 due to a different play style .

Watch the video , it's every touch he had in the game , is it REALLY a 10/10 performance ?

There's no doubt an element of romanticism and a sense of acclaiming it as the key career-defining Roy Keane performance, which is obviously difficult to do (compared to a more attacking player) when his dominance was not easily captured in snapshots but in sustained control over 90 minutes and over 50 games a campaign. That's also why the youtube videos aren't that great, they never show what happens off the ball, the covering of runs, the positioning to cut angles off etc, all of which are integral to bossing the centre of the park.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

This will probably be a very unpopular opinion but reading through the "10/10 performance" thread I felt this would merit its own discussion. When talking about great Manchester United performances, Keane's against Juve in Turin is often seen as the greatest performance by a United player and in some quarters any player in recent times.

Now I'd be clinically insane to say that it was not a great performance but my gripe with the common opinion on this match is that it was an 'individual performance' where Keane was head and shoulders better than everyone else on the pitch. That to me is an absolute false representation of the game and the myth seems to have grown bigger over the years. I think the fact that he scored our first goal and produced such a display knowing he wouldn't play in the final is what creates this myth of an individual great performance.

An individual performance IMO is one where a player is so clearly better than everyone else on the pitch e.g Messi vs Bayern where he butchered Boateng and many others. I've rewatched the game many times and really do think its one of the greatest TEAM performances rather than an individual performance. Yorke, Cole, Butt, Becks and Keane could have all got 10/10 for that performance because all were unplayable especially the front two. Juve's world class defenders shat themselves every time they got the ball.

I was 12 at the time and have fond memories of the game. I guess you could say I was too young appreciate the true impact of the performance at the time. On the other hand the evidence from rewatching the game a few times doesn't point towards being an individual performance.

Generally agree with you.

 

[Successful]

Semi vs juve 99? That's a couple of games before I started to support United, so I don't have much to fill in on here.

 

[Skills]

Watching old footage isn't quite the same, it's missing a big part of the game.

I looked back at our finals against Barca recently (not the full game) which I had avoided like a plague for years. From a technical standpoint it doesn't look so bad now, but I still remember the dread I was feeling when I was watching them live.

Secondly, it's also trying to live up to expectations that were built up by someone else or by you in the heat of the moment. And they always, without fail fall short.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I missed most this game as I was working but seen the last 30 minutes. I do remember Andy Gray lavishing special praise on Keane, on the radio, on my way home though. Personally my favourite Keane performance was v Liverpool in 96 in the FA Cup final. He was everywhere and showed great passing and decision making throughout.

 

[Kayo]

The fact he got booked and knew he was going to miss the final yet still produce a performance like that was what made it so special in my eyes.

Keane single handedly dragged us back into the game that night after we were being outplayed through shear drive and determination. We would have crumbled like a pack of cards (and often did) when he was missing from the team in his prime, 2002 semi being the prime example.

His performance that night laid the foundations and the team grew in confidence after his goal and the ura of Juventus in Turin began to disappear from our players minds who often got battered over there mid 90's.

The team played well after Keane got us back into the game, there is nothing mythical about it, immense midfield performance end of.

 

[Jaybomb]

Keane symbolises everything United is about. One of my favourite players ever.

 

[Redlambs]

Some people would over analyse the Mona Lisa to the point it was no better than a kid's crayon picture on the fridge.

Apparantly Juve were a bit shit too.

Go figure!

 

[RW2]

The reality is simple

Without Keane's performance, United would not have got at least the 2-2 required to make the final, and there would have been no famous night in Barcelona as a consequence

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

In the circumstances.... the fact it was a CL semi, the fact he knew (once booked) he'd miss the final AND the opposition (Juve then were a sh!thot side)...... Keane's performance is a 10.

If anything, watching the game again points out that other United player's excellent performances have been slightly lost in the rush to (rightly) praise Keane and how amazing that United team/squad was, especially mentally. As Fergie said, they never knew when they were beat... Liverpool in the FA Cup, Juve, Bayern....

Great performance by a great player in a great team.

 

[adexkola]

I missed most this game as I was working but seen the last 30 minutes. I do remember Andy Gray lavishing special praise on Keane, on the radio, on my way home though. Personally my favourite Keane performance was v Liverpool in 96 in the FA Cup final. He was everywhere and showed great passing and decision making throughout.

Man of the match wasn't he?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Man of the match wasn't he?

By a country mile.

 

[DanClancy]

He was brilliant that night although it was no way near his best performance although given he knew he would miss the final from a tackle in the 1st half it was a special performance in the circumstances.

He was outstanding against Liverpool in the cup final in 96 and can remember another brilliant performance in Leverkusen in 2002 where many of his team mate let him down. I can remember the night he played centre half around December 95 or Jan 96 when they were 12 points clear. He was outstanding against Les Ferdinand and even chipped in with a goal. I would say his best performance was for Ireland against the Dutch in 2001, it was a very special performance.

A lot of Keane's best games when we weren't playing well, thats when you'd tend to notice him more. Along with Eric he's my favourite United player; He was a great player and arguably one of the greatest captains of any era who had the ability to inspire those around him. On that Paul Merson show on Sky on a Friday he's the player who's name comes up more than anyone else when players are asked to name the best players they've ever played with. Keane was world class as a defensive or attacking midfielder, a trait you won't find in many players.

 

[Gio]

I missed most this game as I was working but seen the last 30 minutes. I do remember Andy Gray lavishing special praise on Keane, on the radio, on my way home though. Personally my favourite Keane performance was v Liverpool in 96 in the FA Cup final. He was everywhere and showed great passing and decision making throughout.

Brilliant.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

I agree. For me, people got carried away with the narrative. Not that he didn't play well. He was brilliant but watching it back, Beckham was clearly the best player out on the pitch. We were fantastic on the whole though. Scored 3 but could have easily been 5/6 that day.

Also, worth pointing out that Juve were far from their best and far from the dominating presence of the previous years. They had Del Piero out, Lippi was sacked and ended up finishing 7th in the league (their worst season for almost a decade).

This. It was as close to peak Juve as Moyes United was to Fergies.

The short time between point a and point b shouldn't mask that fact. Ferrara was shot and suddenly looked old etc etc.

 

[MrMarcello]

And still all my Arsenal friends say vieira was a far better player. As a full package no contest for me

For me that absurd claim should have been put to rest during the 4-2 smashing at Highbury when Vieira disappeared after his initial goal. Not to mention Keane never required a midfield partner to do all the dirty work for him.

 

[Theonas]

Watching old footage isn't quite the same, it's missing a big part of the game.

I looked back at our finals against Barca recently (not the full game) which I had avoided like a plague for years. From a technical standpoint it doesn't look so bad now, but I still remember the dread I was feeling when I was watching them live.

Secondly, it's also trying to live up to expectations that were built up by someone else or by you in the heat of the moment. And they always, without fail fall short.

Doesn't that mean that you should believe the viewing that is free from emotional attachment? I would trust what I see free of any dread or prejudice much more than I would during a game.

 

[Theonas]

It sounds like the central argument is what constitutes a 10/10 performance. The OP seems to view it from a technical standpoint in which case, such rating should be clearly reserved to Maradonna vs England or Zidane vs Brazil or something by Cruyff or Messi or whatever. If we are looking at the influence of a performance in the outcome of a game, Keane's is an easy 10.

 

[reelworld]

Don't forget Del Piero was not playing in those games, he was injured I think. with him in the squad they'd have beaten us. We were outplayed at old trafford and lucky.

Del Piero broke his leg early in the season. He end up missing the whole season. Juve was struggling without him. IIRC, they were 7th in Serie A when we played them. However Ancelotti did one of his masterstroke, playing Di Livio behind Inzaghi, and he absolutely murdered us in the first leg at Old Trafford. We were lucky we didnt conceded more than one goal.

The narrative that Juve was the best team in world at that point I think also a bit false. Their attack suffered without Del Piero for large period of time in the league. Their poor form there made them put all their effort in the Champions League though.

 

[Theonas]

Del Piero broke his leg early in the season. He end up missing the whole season. Juve was struggling without him. IIRC, they were 7th in Serie A when we played them. However Ancelotti did one of his masterstroke, playing Di Livio behind Inzaghi, and he absolutely murdered us in the first leg at Old Trafford. We were lucky we didnt conceded more than one goal.

The narrative that Juve was the best team in world at that point I think also a bit false. Their attack suffered without Del Piero for large period of time in the league. Their poor form there made them put all their effort in the Champions League though.

Very true. They were probably the best team in Europe over the preceding 5 years or so, not in the way Barcelona have been recently but again who has? I would compare that Juve side to the Milan side we lost to in 2007. Struggling in the league but due to the quality on their ranks, they were the best team in the world on their day.