Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)

[OrcaFat]

I think we probably were interested in Camavinga and Tchouameni, we've followed the latter since his Bordeaux days. I think the issue is they both wanted Real and we've not found any unknown quantities with the same profile since - which is the real surprise for me.

I agree as well on your assessment of neves, I do like him too but because of him being one half of the the full package, his price very much comes into play. I'd rather give Garner a go and buy a more defensive minded midfielder.

If we can’t get FDJ or Neves, we should definitely give Garner a go. I personally don’t think he’s up to it but I want to give him a chance.

A good DM-ish, physical midfielder is important regardless and if such a player is available in our budget we should sort that. I don’t know if this is realistic but several have posted that Martinez can play DM as well as CB and if that’s what ETH has in mind, great.

 

[Lash]

If we can’t get FDJ or Neves, we should definitely give Garner a go. I personally don’t think he’s up to it but I want to give him a chance.

A good DM-ish, physical midfielder is important regardless and if such a player is available in our budget we should sort that. I don’t know if this is realistic but several have posted that Martinez can play DM as well as CB and if that’s what ETH has in mind, great.

Yeah, it's a worthy gamble and might pleasantly surprise a lot of us.

I don't think he has Martinez in mind for DM. A more limited passer, but better defensive minded midfielder would be quite attainable for a smaller price than your FDJ's and Neves' of this world.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't think Neves is going to be in the equation. He simply costs too much for what he is. If it's not De Jong it won't be Neves in my opinion. We wouldn't be going through these struggles over De Jong only to throw a huge sum on the table for Neves. Getting a good deal is clearly important to the club. I think Paredes is more likely.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Hope we get him. Think he would prove so many people wrong.

 

[NZT-One]

Yeah, it's a worthy gamble and might pleasantly surprise a lot of us.

I don't think he has Martinez in mind for DM. A more limited passer, but better defensive minded midfielder would be quite attainable for a smaller price than your FDJ's and Neves' of this world.

Absolutely, which is why it is so necessary to bring a DM in. A DM could even make a McFred + DM combination more of a thing, we need that in the squad and have done for years. Issue was that people want all their attacking favourites in the first eleven and therefor were only ready to accept a DM as long as he is a great progressor too. But asking for that blend of qualities makes it so much more difficult to recruit.

 

[Cassidy]

They are asking silly money for him and he isn't even that good.

 

[golden_blunder]

People are proper obsessed with DM.
there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat

 

[arthurka]

Just go and get him. Leave Barca to clean up their mess.

 

[Sultan]

People are proper obsessed with DM.
there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat

Exactly

Our best trophy-winning years were without a pure defensive midfielder.

 

[NZT-One]

Exactly

Our best trophy-winning years were without a pure defensive midfielder.

Yeah in front of prime Ferdinand and Vidic and coupled with available workhorses like Rooney, JSP and Fletcher. And many of us were moaning about midfield back then too.

 

[Blood Mage]

Exactly

Our best trophy-winning years were without a pure defensive midfielder.

Because we had a DLP. You need one of the two and we don't have either right now.

 

[DJ_21]

Yeah in front of prime Ferdinand and Vidic and coupled with available workhorses like Rooney, JSP and Fletcher. And many of us were moaning about midfield back then too.

Absolutely! We got away with it back then by having a lot of hard working players that worked as a team. Times have moved on since then… most of the top teams in Europe have a DM which allows the other mids and attackers to do there thing further up the pitch.

 

[Sultan]

Yeah in front of prime Ferdinand and Vidic and coupled with available workhorses like Rooney, JSP and Fletcher. And many of us were moaning about midfield back then too.

If we don't have access to such players or a defensive midfielder the coaches need to get creative to adapt play style.

 

[Sultan]

Absolutely! We got away with it back then by having a lot of hard working players that worked as a team. Times have moved on since then… most of the top teams in Europe have a DM which allows the other mids and attackers to do there thing further up the pitch.

Surely times have not moved on for the coaches to expect hard work as a unit to help out defensively?

 

[NZT-One]

If we don't have access to such players or a defensive midfielder the coaches need to get creative to adapt play style.

Sure. Or doing a pretty basic thing: bring in a ballwinner Look nobody is saying bring in Ndidi instead of Frenkie. But winning the ball is very relevant skill - even in todays game. It is no coincidence that all top clubs have somebody like that playing in midfield (except for maybe Chelsea but they have Kante in the squad). Even fecking ETH used a DM until a few weeks before today.

 

[DevTheRed]

People are proper obsessed with DM.
there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat

I don’t think it’s just a DM as such, it’s someone who can just get the ball from the CB’s, control tempo and recycle possession. We currently don’t have that and haven’t had it since Carrick left. McTominay and Fred just aren’t capable of doing so.

 

[NZT-One]

I don’t think it’s just a DM as such, it’s someone who can just get the ball from the CB’s, control tempo and recycle possession. We currently don’t have that and haven’t had it since Carrick left. McTominay and Fred just aren’t capable of doing so.

This is where terminology kicks in. I agree, we need somebody to bring some sort of rhythm into our play. But that doesn't necessarily need to be the DM. Of course it is great if you find a player who is able to do that AND perform the classical duties of a DM which is secure the center and win balls. Matic was a good blend between the two. Ballack a very good one. Think we have to separate the different objectives we have to cover. Makes it easier to identify players when the requirements aren't as specific as well.

Ball progression can be done in multiple ways, but I am pretty sure, even today you won't get by without fielding a player who is doing really well defensively.

 

[OrcaFat]

Neves / FDJ with Rice and Eriksen would be my ideal midfield. Everyone knows we can’t afford Rice as well as Neves / FDJ but that is the sort of balance we need.

We have to have someone in the “Rice” role with that blend of defensive nous, physicality and mentality. Otherwise Neves (or FDJ) will look insufficiently mobile - it wouldn’t be their fault, it is the balance around them that will get the best out of them. All players need the right players around them if the team is going to function properly.

People saying we don’t need a DM are projecting an ideal. We will keep getting done by pacy, physical teams if we don’t have a DM. That doesn’t mean we have to have a static 6 who will just sit there and not contribute, it’s having a player who has the discipline and intuition to hold his position when required. The thing about Rice is that he can read the game situation and go forward from the 6 position - he knows when to do it. It doesn’t have to be Rice but he is the best fit that I know of. Neves would be brilliant in the same midfield as Rice; they would dovetail pretty sweetly.

 

[Vapor trail]

I think Neves is a very good player, not rated on the forum for one reason or another but neither was Dias and he's hit the ground running at City.

 

[pocco]

I wonder if there's any way Villa could be tempted into selling Jacob Ramsey? Think he'd tick a lot of the same boxes as FDJ and is younger.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Exactly

Our best trophy-winning years were without a pure defensive midfielder.

Back when we had one of the greatest defences ever, and going further back we had the relentless engine of Keane in front of a pretty formidable defence. Its not really comparable to what we have now.

 

[Idxomer]

I wonder if there's any way Villa could be tempted into selling Jacob Ramsey? Think he'd tick a lot of the same boxes as FDJ and is younger.

He is more of an attacking midfielder, no?

 

[pocco]

I don't think Garner is ready and not sure he'll ever be good enough, though there is a chance. One problem with him is how little he forces himself upon a game, sometimes it just passes him by. With that in mind, there will be a lot of games next season where we are in a battle and I can just envisage him getting swallowed up by the whole thing.

Mentally, I think Hannibal is nearer. He's got the dogged aggression and super self belief to take the ball in tricky situations. The question mark with him is if he's ready for the physical aspect and the pace of the game.

 

[pocco]

He is more of an attacking midfielder, no?

In a way, yes he is at the moment for Villa. But when I watch him, he often starts deeper and can carry the ball really well or pick out nice passes to progress play. He's quite involved as an AM, not one that floats around up top. I could see him being converted into a CM as he gets the experience.

But, the caveat in all this is that Frenkie is a very niche player. He's not comparable to Neves at all as he doesn't hold the deeper position and likes to move forward. He's like an AM starting from deep in a way. So I don't think the difference between them stylistically is as big as it looks on paper.

 

[Ekeke]

Surely times have not moved on for the coaches to expect hard work as a unit to help out defensively?

We would need proper 4-4-2 players again. Meaning our wingers would work up and down the wing defensively and offensively and not be expected to be in the goals as much. Currently they are the opposite. Having said that they didnt score many last season but thats due to poor performance, if they dont score more goals this season playing in the same offensive way then they are simply bad players.

Beckham and Giggs for example would track right back and help fullbacks who are getting doubled up on. Most of the time our wingers do what Neville used to refer to as "cheating" being further forward in the hope that we recover the ball and they can break against fewer opponents from an attacking position.

We'd also need much better CBs. Lisandro would be the start

 

[Sultan]

Basically, if not a specialist defensive midfielder we should have great defenders, hard-working midfielders and wingers willing to work hard.

A nice option but not a necessity. I rest my case.

 

[DJ_21]

Surely times have not moved on for the coaches to expect hard work as a unit to help out defensively?

Times have moved on that everyone now plays with a DM… we haven’t for years and it’s costing us massively and effects how the whole team play.

 

[Superunknown]

Hope we get him. Think he would prove so many people wrong.

I feel the same. I've liked this player for quite a while and can easily see him coming in and improving us.

Maybe he doesn't hold up compared to some of the other names we're linked with, but that's not really the right way we should be looking at it. We don't have these other players, we only have the players in our squad right here and right now. Compared to what we currently have, Neves is an upgrade, in my opinion. I'm convinced that even if we do manage to get some of our other targets, there will be a place in our squad for Neves.

 

[Duafc]

Big fan of his - is he better than what we have? IMO undoubtedly, doesn't solve our MF problems alone though.

Anything under 50m would be good business I reckon.

 

[Yagami]

Can't shield the ball. I hope we pass on another lightweight player.

 

[MrSingh2002]

We could do alot worse than Neves. I don't he has the mobility of a Pogba or De Jong but he's a solid technician and has a good passing range.

The underestimating of him in this thread has been surprising. He's produced well for Wolves and could fill a gap. Positioning is the only issue as I think we're signing Eriksen as a CM and if they were to play alot of games together, lack of height in midfield would be an issue.

If Neves was to be partnered with a Camavinga or Tchouameni who we we should have signed it could have easily worked. We can't have two midfielders without real mobility/physicality.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

We could do alot worse than Neves. I don't he has the mobility of a Pogba or De Jong but he's a solid technician and has a good passing range.

The underestimating of him in this thread has been surprising. He's produced well for Wolves and could fill a gap. Positioning is the only issue as I think we're signing Eriksen as a CM and if they were to play alot of games together, lack of height in midfield would be an issue.

If Neves was to be partnered with a Camavinga or Tchouameni who we we should have signed it could have easily worked. We can't have two midfielders without real mobility/physicality.

Neves is like 6ft. He’s not small or bad in the air. He’s more defensively sound than De Jong tbh.

 

[James35]

Would love Neves, a lot better technically than what we have. Problem is if we do come to a full stop on FDJ, Wolves will also want ridiculous money and it would no doubt be another drawn out saga going on to the end of the window.

All I know is, we start the season as we are in midfield, we are fecked!

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Would love Neves, a lot better technically than what we have. Problem is if we do come to a full stop on FDJ, Wolves will also want ridiculous money and it would no doubt be another drawn out saga going on to the end of the window.

All I know is, we start the season as we are in midfield, we are fecked!

Yep, de Jong would be my first choice as I'm sure it is for many. I think Neves is decent but I just imagine Wolves will demand significantly more than he's worth. Recall last summer (when I don't think we were ever in for him personally despite some online rumours) there was talk of a £35m fee but couldn't see any way in the world they were letting him go for that. And still don't.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Next month will see the birth of a small Neves saga

How much would be a realistic fee?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Next month will see the birth of a small Neves saga

How much would be a realistic fee?

45M is the ceiling.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

45M is the ceiling.

In pounds? So about the same price as Martínez? I’d say that’s very fair

 

[croadyman]

In pounds? So about the same price as Martínez? I’d say that’s very fair

Yeah Wolves won't sell for that

 

[phelans shorts]

45M is the ceiling.

They’d be having our pants down if we paid that

 

[Nero]

Let's add more average to average.