Is that a bit out of the blue, or was it expected in circles that follow developments in Belgrade?The pivot we've been waiting for all these years.
Is that a bit out of the blue, or was it expected in circles that follow developments in Belgrade?The pivot we've been waiting for all these years.
I don’t think those that suggested it were met with nice responses.Plenty of people suggested Ukraine did it.
I seem to remember we wondered what they might have to gain from it but it wasn't a conspiracy theorist response to the suggestion.
Which part of these tweets say that US did it?I wonder what the response would have been if anyone had suggested ukraine did it back when it happened. I remember those saying it was the USA were getting called crazy conspiracy theorist
I know the people of Ukraine have suffered hugely and is awful to see and read about. Would never wish what they are going through on another human.All these poor animals…
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Which part of “at the time” don’t you understand.Which part of these tweets say that US did it?
So there was nothing wrong about labeling the people who thought US did as conspiracy theorist, at the time.Which part of “at the time” don’t you understand.
All these poor animals…
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I remember it was an opinion/suggestion that wasn’t responded to very diplomatically.So there was nothing wrong about labeling the people who thought US did as conspiracy theorist, at the time.
Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.So there was nothing wrong about labeling the people who thought US did as conspiracy theorist, at the time.
My money still on the Russians doing it, mainly from the effort they put in to suggest the US did it.Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.
I thought Russia did it, though I was definitely hazy about their motivations. Who was your money on?
Bloody conspiracy theorist....yeah, maybe.My money still on the Russians doing it, mainly from the effort they put in to suggest the US did it.
I thought probably Russia, but didn't really think that made sense, but that has never stopped Russia.Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.
I thought Russia did it, though I was definitely hazy about their motivations. Who was your money on?
Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.I thought probably Russia, but didn't really think that made sense, but that has never stopped Russia.
Ukraine doing it makes some sense, but it wouldn't have been my tactic. Seems like there's more to lose than to gain.
But huge difference between Ukraine pissing off Germany and US doing it. Would be very bizarre geopolitical action from US, whereas, at the time, Germany was rather useless for Ukraine.
Yes he did. And he did it to deter Russia from invading. There certainly is a case to be made that not following through on that threat would be very dangerous, as it would embolden Putin further.Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
Threatening Russia about it pre-war, is a very different situation, than to do it and potentially damage US relations with Germany and other EU countries when unity is needed.Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
As Nord Stream is/was partially owned by German companies it was a threat against German interests and considering that Nord Stream 2 was stopped for some months vy US sanctions against German companies it's just wrong to limit these actions to "threatening Russia".Threatening Russia about it pre-war, is a very different situation, than to do it and potentially damage US relations with Germany and other EU countries when unity is needed.
Whereas if Russia actually did conquer Ukraine, then go ahead and blow it up, why not. But the situation in Septembet didn't warrant that action.
He didn't. His sanctions did not stop it, the decision was made in the German government to reduce and phase out it's usage (and to not letting NS2 become operational).Biden did shut down nordstream within a week of the invasion, long before the bombing.
Yeah, why do people keep ignoring this point? Nord Stream was dead.Biden did shut down nordstream within a week of the invasion, long before the bombing.
I don't think anyone cared what Germany thought at the time. Now sure, in September probably. Pre-war and first couple of months, feck Germany.As Nord Stream is/was partially owned by German companies it was a threat against German interests and considering that Nord Stream 2 was stopped for some months vy US sanctions against German companies it's just wrong to limit these actions to "threatening Russia".
The US/German relations were definitely negatively affected by this.
With no pressure/influence from the US? I doubt.He didn't. His sanctions did not stop it, the decision was made in the German government to reduce and phase out it's usage (and to not letting NS2 become operational).
The USA are not a world government and such posts are just ignorant.
If Biden was able to force Germany to completely change their energy supply, don't you think the would have done something about countries like Greece by now?With no pressure/influence from the US? I doubt.
I don't know about that, but in the statement everybody likes to bring up when Biden stated he will shut down Nordstream 2 if Russia invades, he appeared very confident he does have the influence to do it. His words "I promise you, we'll be able to do it".If Biden was able to force Germany to completely change their energy supply, don't you think the would have done something about countries like Greece by now?
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It wasn't directly dead, some of the companies pulled out and were replaced to finalize Nord Stream 2, which was done.I don't know about that, but in the statement everybody likes to bring up when Biden stated he will shut down Nordstream 2 if Russia invades, he appeared very confident he does have the influence to do it. His words "I promise you, we'll be able to do it".
Don't ask me how, I'm sure its more complex than asking nicely, but POTUS does have influence believe it or not and he's a seasoned diplomat. Shell pulled out of the Nordstream deal on 1st March, that was one of the nails in the coffin. Shell just so happen to be massively exposed to US policy.
Perhaps it was all Germany and Biden didn't have to do anything... Just the vibe German politicians were giving to the outside world at the time wasn't very encouraging. Perhaps stefan can correct me on that and their was a lot of internal support for it?
edit: just doing some googling from around the time. The US issued sanctions against Nord Stream 2 AG, the Russian owned Swiss company. Dead.
This happened before the war started. If at that time Germany agreed with Biden that if Russia invades Ukraine they will kill both Nord Stream pipelines, then the Russians probably would not have started the war. But the German stance encouraged Putin. Putin believed that perhaps the Germans will help him, like a Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact mk2. Unfortunately, the German stance from 2014 - 2022 has played a major role in allowing this war.Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
I do believe that the context is pretty clear, it is in the thread title.You have told us this many times in this thread. And it is half the truth, you always fail to mention "if Russia invades Ukraine". Why?
https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ll-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/
If Russia invades Ukraine, there will be no Nord Stream 2, Biden says
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No, the context is not clear. Biden talked about NS2, before the war, and only if Russia invades Ukraine. That should have been the position of the German State as well, it is unimaginable that Germany would continue with NS2 while Russia is killing Ukrainians. Biden stated the obvious, nothing more.I do believe that the context is pretty clear, it is in the thread title.