Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Sir Matt

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I think its largely for domestic consumption that can be used to prepare the Russian public for whatever violence Putin wants to use next.

It's also to lay the groundwork if he decides to push for a declaration of war so he can use conscripts. The Russians have been talking about attacks in Russia over the last several days, which seems to point in that direction. If the Ukrainians can hold out and stop the Russian advance in Donbas, he'll have to do something to save face.
 

sglowrider

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Yes, this is a good point. A Russian version of the Anschluss.



I don't believe they are. Too much historical tension between them. China I would actually suspect of using Russia for resources and to try and damage the west economically or politically before completely double crossing them and I'd assume Vlad to be at least somewhat astute to that possibility.
Why would China want to damage the West? They are so globally integrated economically it would be like cutting the nose to spite the face. Why damage their huge customer base in the West?
China has over $400Billion invested just in Europe alone.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Why would China want to damage the West? They are so globally integrated economically it would be like cutting the nose to spite the face. Why damage their huge customer base in the West?
China has over $400Billion invested just in Europe alone.
Global hegemony. When I say weaken I mean in the sense of power and influence politically not economically. Every billion the US government throws into Ukraine could limit their ability to influence other geo-political spheres through their foreign assistance spending. Not necessarily due to a lack of funds but a lack of will to spend more money from Congress. This functions as a way to weaken US foreign policy, especially seeing as there's no longer a Russian agent in the White House and the current President is clearly interested in re-establishing American influence across the world.
 

sglowrider

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Global hegemony. When I say weaken I mean in the sense of power and influence politically not economically. Every billion the US government throws into Ukraine could limit their ability to influence other geo-political spheres through their foreign assistance spending. Not necessarily due to a lack of funds but a lack of will to spend more money from Congress. This functions as a way to weaken US foreign policy, especially seeing as there's no longer a Russian agent in the White House and the current President is clearly interested in re-establishing American influence across the world.
On the flip side, you can accuse the US of trying to stop any new emerging powers and protecting its global hegemony. I think it will be the US need to get used to the likelihood of a multi-polar world. Europe now knows that it has to be more independent after this invasion.

There will be the US, China and Europe as the dominant powers going forward.
 

Beans

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Is that a John Deere in front of it?
Edit well I’ll buy any magic beans that are on offer
The aqua-tractor is indigenous to the Black Sea, I believe there's a full skeleton in the National History Museum in London.

(Edit: I will sell it to you)
 
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Don't Kill Bill

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Thank you.

From that record everything the UK has promised in terms of hardware is yet to arrive.

This does not surprise me.

I'm half expecting the Ukrainian refugees applying to stay here to be diverted via Rwanda.
Can we resist the reflex to self flagellation on this just once?

I think this is a list of heavy weapons we have only recently decided to send and we don't have the logistics to move them as fast as say the US. We have been training the Ukrainian army through operation orbital since 2015 though. The weapons the Ukrainians had in their hands at the start of this war included thousands of UK anti tank and anti air missiles.

A stich in time saves nine and all that.

Zelenski isn't blocking UK representatives from going to Ukraine or complaining about the UK's lack of help is he? That's telling I think. In fact post Johnson's visit he was praising the level of assistance the UK is providing and actually used us as an example he hoped all of Europe would follow. I know its hard to take in but we might just be doing well in helping here. As unusual as that is.
 

frostbite

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Ukraine's President Zelensky to BBC: Blood money being paid for Russian oil

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61107725

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has accused European countries that continue to buy Russian oil of "earning their money in other people's blood".

In an interview with the BBC, President Zelensky singled out Germany and Hungary, accusing them of blocking efforts to embargo energy sales, from which Russia stands to make up to £250bn ($326bn) this year.
 

Rajma

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Russia continues to shell its own territories:


These false flags for domestic consumption gives us a hint that a further escalation of the war is inevitable. Likely with the idea of bombing Kiev and full mobilization.
 
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MadMike

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The idea they are fighting against NATO or NATO infrastructure is both hilarious and a convenient excuse for their failures.

They are just fighting against Ukrainian reservists supplied with anti-tank weapons, manpads and night vision goggles and they are still losing. Their lameness knows no end.
 
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Denis79

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I think its largely for domestic consumption that can be used to prepare the Russian public for whatever violence Putin wants to use next.
That's what scares me. I know many will disagree with me but I can see Putin using tactical nukes in the Ukraine.
 

MadMike

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Russia continues to shell its own territories:


These false flags for domestic consumption give us a hint that a further escalation of the war is inevitable. Likely with the idea of full mobilization.
Why do I feel this will go even worse for Russia if they do go for full mobilisation?

First of all, calling reservists quickly becomes a huge drain on the economy. Not only are these people not working and paying taxes, now you also have to pay and feed them. Secondly reservists are largely untrained, less disciplined, harder to motivate (especially in an offensive war) and as a result they suffer higher casualty and desertion rates than the regular troops. That in turn saps morale even more, but it also creates an operational headache for command due to their untrustworthiness.

Sometimes it’s better to know that you have left a flank unprotected and make plans based on that, than believing that it is protected when in fact the battalion of reservists who mans it will flounder and desert the second they start coming under heavy fire.

The war will get bloodier and costlier if they commit reservists. But mostly for Russia. Ukraine is already all in.
 

GlastonSpur

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I think its largely for domestic consumption that can be used to prepare the Russian public for whatever violence Putin wants to use next.
But why is there any need to prepare the Russian public when most of them only know what the state-controlled media (which is now all of the media) allows them to know?

If he wanted to, Putin could use a tactical nuke on Kyiv and then use the state-controlled media to deride all Western claims about is as just more fake news.
 

stefan92

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But why is there any need to prepare the Russian public when most of them only know what the state-controlled media (which is now all of the media) allows them to know?

If he wanted to, Putin could use a tactical nuke on Kyiv and then use the state-controlled media to deride all Western claims about is as just more fake news.
Russia still isn't at war officially, which would result in a lot of different rules, mobilizing reservists etc. This is about preparing the Russian people for that.
 

Denis79

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But why is there any need to prepare the Russian public when most of them only know what the state-controlled media (which is now all of the media) allows them to know?

If he wanted to, Putin could use a tactical nuke on Kyiv and then use the state-controlled media to deride all Western claims about is as just more fake news.
The Russian public will have a breaking point. You can only hide what is really going on to an extent. I can guarantee that the pressure is growing on the Russian leadership.

Western news of their atrocities and losses is leaking in, of that I am sure. I have talked on the phone with two former colleagues from Russia, both were pro Putin just 2 years ago, this war has completely changed their view. They are disguisted by what's going on and never believed it would come to this.

This is the end of Putin according to them, l just hope he is removed from power before he does something even worse than what we have already seen.
 

Buster15

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That's what scares me. I know many will disagree with me but I can see Putin using tactical nukes in the Ukraine.
Don't agree.
He and his generals have already scaled back on their invasion plans.
They know now that the objective is to take as much territory in the East of Ukraine.
And Putin will be able to claim victory with that. And they don't need to escalate to anything like the use of tactical warheads.

They have been and increasingly are suffering heavy losses.
The deployment of tactical weapons will not get them any closer to victory and will invite retaliation from the West.
He is looking for a way out, not an escalation.
 

Raoul

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But why is there any need to prepare the Russian public when most of them only know what the state-controlled media (which is now all of the media) allows them to know?

If he wanted to, Putin could use a tactical nuke on Kyiv and then use the state-controlled media to deride all Western claims about is as just more fake news.
To prepare them for a wider conflict that is no longer an ”operation” but a full on war. He obviously needs a “provocation” to do that, and the narratives by the clowns on the propaganda shows are greasing the skids for the public to buy into what they are saying. It’s just a more perverse version of what happens on Fox News when Trump’s White House wanted to push a narrative Republican voters who watch Fox would buy into. In both instances, propaganda specifically intended to influence a core audience.
 

Raoul

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But why is there any need to prepare the Russian public when most of them only know what the state-controlled media (which is now all of the media) allows them to know?

If he wanted to, Putin could use a tactical nuke on Kyiv and then use the state-controlled media to deride all Western claims about is as just more fake news.
To prepare them for a wider conflict that is no longer an ”operation” but a full on war. He obviously needs a “provocation” to do that, and the narratives by the clowns on the propaganda shows are greasing the skids for the public to buy into what they are saying. It’s just a more perverse version of what happens on Fox News when Trump’s White House wanted to push a narrative Republican voters who watch Fox would buy into. In both instances, propaganda specifically intended to influence a core audience.
 

Rajma

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Just searched one of the largest Russian social network (oddnoklasniki) for the posts that had the following formulation: “died during special military in Ukraine” - had around 50k hits. A lot of those might be duplicates and whatnot but the true number of causalities must be immensely large as often a single post reports on multiple deaths at once (also if you take into account those that don’t get reported at all).
 

Denis79

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Don't agree.
He and his generals have already scaled back on their invasion plans.
They know now that the objective is to take as much territory in the East of Ukraine.
And Putin will be able to claim victory with that. And they don't need to escalate to anything like the use of tactical warheads.

They have been and increasingly are suffering heavy losses.
The deployment of tactical weapons will not get them any closer to victory and will invite retaliation from the West.
He is looking for a way out, not an escalation.
Hope so.
 

Rajma

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Russia turning back the clock with the newest shipments:

Still these can inflict some damage if they are in working conditions obviously.
 

Rajma

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Why do I feel this will go even worse for Russia if they do go for full mobilisation?

First of all, calling reservists quickly becomes a huge drain on the economy. Not only are these people not working and paying taxes, now you also have to pay and feed them. Secondly reservists are largely untrained, less disciplined, harder to motivate (especially in an offensive war) and as a result they suffer higher casualty and desertion rates than the regular troops. That in turn saps morale even more, but it also creates an operational headache for command due to their untrustworthiness.

Sometimes it’s better to know that you have left a flank unprotected and make plans based on that, than believing that it is protected when in fact the battalion of reservists who mans it will flounder and desert the second they start coming under heavy fire.

The war will get bloodier and costlier if they commit reservists. But mostly for Russia. Ukraine is already all in.
You’re probably right, but that’s how Stalin overcome Hitler in WW2, basically through a share volume. This is going to be a meat grinder as you say though.
 

GlastonSpur

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Just searched one of the largest Russian social network (oddnoklasniki) for the posts that had the following formulation: “died during special military in Ukraine” - had around 50k hits. A lot of those might be duplicates and whatnot but the true number of causalities must be immensely large as often a single post reports on multiple deaths at once (also if you take into account those that don’t get reported at all).
A senior Nato military officer estimated between 30,000 and 40,000 Russian battlefield casualties (dead, wounded etc), but that was more than 3 weeks ago and significantly less than the figures given by Ukraine at the time.

The total must now be at least 50,000, and I'd guess a fair bit higher.
 

calodo2003

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I know war doesn't ever really make any sense but this is taking the piss isn't it?
The facial recognition? Seems like a logical move in order to foment discontent within Russia as well as give families some semblance of closure.
 

VorZakone

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Putin's assumptions?
  • Ukraine would fall quickly.
  • Minimal cost to Russian military.
  • Europeans wouldn't do much.
  • Sanctions-proof economy.