Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Gehrman

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the hea said:
If Germany had any interest in getting less dependant on Russian energy or CO2 heavy energy resourses in general they could just keep their 3 remaining nuclear plants running insead of shutting them down by the end of the year. All of that energy will have to be replaced within 6 months and the only realistic way to do so is by burning more coal, oil and gas.
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I agree. Closing their nuclear power plants was always a stupid decision. I mentioned that above.
 

maniak

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Horrible, horrible stuff. And it's just getting worse by the day.
They're just picking towns and cities by will, close to the frontline or not, pure terrorism. Vinntysa is in deep Ukraine, not so close to the frontline as I gather.
That's why I always laugh when I hear their propaganda they're precise with their bombing and if they bomb residential areas its cause Ukrainian forces are using buildings and houses as camp. Standard propaganda of an invading country with a criminal regime.
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Well, if the goal is to kill civilians, then they are precise.
 

TMDaines

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Terror strikes on Dnipro tonight:


Those buying Russian gas are getting a great return on their investment in recent days.
 

frostbite

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Ukrainian officials have confirmed that the US House of Representatives approved of $100 million in funding to train Ukrainian pilots to operate American aircraft as part of the National Defense Authorization Act. The pilots will be trained on F-15 and F-16 jets, according to Andriy Yermak, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s chief of staff.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...086e8f93697494#block-62d1f0ab8f086e8f93697494
 

ShoePolish

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TMDaines said:
Terror strikes on Dnipro tonight:


Those buying Russian gas are getting a great return on their investment in recent days.
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I assume this is what putin meant when he said they haven't really started yet.
I bet once offensive stalls alltogether, they'll dig in like roaches and start shelling civilian targets to force peace talks.
 

Walrus

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A big question for me, is if Putin turns around tomorrow and says “operation is complete, we are withdrawing” - so we just give ourselves a pat on the back and be done with it?

The amount of damage and loss of life caused by Russia is surely too much to ever forgive or to move on from at this point. Do we demand Russia pays to rebuild Ukraine? What do we do when they refuse? Do we support Ukraine if they decide they want to start getting revenge and firing more missions at Russia?

I would hope that at minimum, the west will keep all sanctions and measures in place until Russia has paid back Ukraine for the damages, and returned the displayed citizens they have kidnapped (neither of which I believe they will ever do).

There cannot be a return to the status quo with Russia now. Any relationship is shattered. A previous poster said that we (the west) need to start accepting and preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. It’s not pleasant and it’s not desirable, but only once we accept that as a possibility can we start to play Russia at its own game and curtail their aggression.
 

Superden

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the russians are just using the same arguments which the the americans used in iraq, in places like fallujah, and the israelis do with Gaza. where 'civilian' infrastructure is a valid military target as the 'governing' parties are the enemy and then anybody associated with them is an enemy combatant. plagues on all their houses.
 

Superden

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Walrus said:
A big question for me, is if Putin turns around tomorrow and says “operation is complete, we are withdrawing” - so we just give ourselves a pat on the back and be done with it?

The amount of damage and loss of life caused by Russia is surely too much to ever forgive or to move on from at this point. Do we demand Russia pays to rebuild Ukraine? What do we do when they refuse? Do we support Ukraine if they decide they want to start getting revenge and firing more missions at Russia?

I would hope that at minimum, the west will keep all sanctions and measures in place until Russia has paid back Ukraine for the damages, and returned the displayed citizens they have kidnapped (neither of which I believe they will ever do).

There cannot be a return to the status quo with Russia now. Any relationship is shattered. A previous poster said that we (the west) need to start accepting and preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. It’s not pleasant and it’s not desirable, but only once we accept that as a possibility can we start to play Russia at its own game and curtail their aggression.
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live we in the west have put Afghanistan back together again after leaving...
 

Simbo

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Walrus said:
A big question for me, is if Putin turns around tomorrow and says “operation is complete, we are withdrawing” - so we just give ourselves a pat on the back and be done with it?

The amount of damage and loss of life caused by Russia is surely too much to ever forgive or to move on from at this point. Do we demand Russia pays to rebuild Ukraine? What do we do when they refuse? Do we support Ukraine if they decide they want to start getting revenge and firing more missions at Russia?

I would hope that at minimum, the west will keep all sanctions and measures in place until Russia has paid back Ukraine for the damages, and returned the displayed citizens they have kidnapped (neither of which I believe they will ever do).

There cannot be a return to the status quo with Russia now. Any relationship is shattered. A previous poster said that we (the west) need to start accepting and preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. It’s not pleasant and it’s not desirable, but only once we accept that as a possibility can we start to play Russia at its own game and curtail their aggression.
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Yeh the sanctions would not lift. They are a pariah state now. It is why in many ways, Russia has already lost this war, they are never recovering from it.
 

the hea

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Walrus said:
A big question for me, is if Putin turns around tomorrow and says “operation is complete, we are withdrawing” - so we just give ourselves a pat on the back and be done with it?

The amount of damage and loss of life caused by Russia is surely too much to ever forgive or to move on from at this point. Do we demand Russia pays to rebuild Ukraine? What do we do when they refuse? Do we support Ukraine if they decide they want to start getting revenge and firing more missions at Russia?

I would hope that at minimum, the west will keep all sanctions and measures in place until Russia has paid back Ukraine for the damages, and returned the displayed citizens they have kidnapped (neither of which I believe they will ever do).

There cannot be a return to the status quo with Russia now. Any relationship is shattered. A previous poster said that we (the west) need to start accepting and preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. It’s not pleasant and it’s not desirable, but only once we accept that as a possibility can we start to play Russia at its own game and curtail their aggression.
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The most probable outcome is some kind of stand still, much like the one in the Korean peninsula with a new iron curtain between Russia and the west.

The only other options I see are:

-A total victory for Russia which would only be followed by further Russian aggressions against other countries. At this point I think that is an almost impossible outcome, it would take some sort breakdown of Nato and EU for that to happen.

-The other one is an internal collape of Russia due to a total defeat of the Russian forces in Ukraine and the crumbelling effects on Russian society from the sanctions.
 

Gehrman

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Walrus said:
A big question for me, is if Putin turns around tomorrow and says “operation is complete, we are withdrawing” - so we just give ourselves a pat on the back and be done with it?

The amount of damage and loss of life caused by Russia is surely too much to ever forgive or to move on from at this point. Do we demand Russia pays to rebuild Ukraine? What do we do when they refuse? Do we support Ukraine if they decide they want to start getting revenge and firing more missions at Russia?

I would hope that at minimum, the west will keep all sanctions and measures in place until Russia has paid back Ukraine for the damages, and returned the displayed citizens they have kidnapped (neither of which I believe they will ever do).

There cannot be a return to the status quo with Russia now. Any relationship is shattered. A previous poster said that we (the west) need to start accepting and preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. It’s not pleasant and it’s not desirable, but only once we accept that as a possibility can we start to play Russia at its own game and curtail their aggression.
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Unless Rusia attacks a Nato country they are simply going to be isolated by the west and treated like a loose Canon like Saddam Hussein. Luckily for Russia they have a major ally in China, but the west will gradually do everything to crush them financially.
 

maximus419

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Pintu said:
I hope this is carried out.

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Then Ukraine can kiss goodbye to further support from the EU and US. I mean what do they really hope to achieve and how can they possibly finance a court case given Ukraine doesn't really have an economy at this point!

Without the financial might of the US and EU Ukraine would be under russian control by now if Russia wanted to. Russia are the aggressor here, Ukraine need to understand it's not as simple as turning off the energy needs and that somehow countries who rely on Russia for energy have blood on their hands. It's stupid rhetoric and does nothing but weaken their relations with the west. Unless of course this is all a play for Ukraine to strike some sort of deal with Russia, at this point nothing is beyond belief.
 

the hea

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Frosty said:
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This means that they must have started unloading the trains further back behind the front lines, out of reach of Ukrainian rockets. That in turn will mean that they will need to rely more on trucks to get the supplies to the front lines and we all remember how their truck logistics worked back in March when they tried to take Kiev.
 

Frosty

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the hea said:
This means that they must have started unloading the trains further back behind the front lines, out of reach of Ukrainian rockets. That in turn will mean that they will need to rely more on trucks to get the supplies to the front lines and we all remember how their truck logistics worked back in March when they tried to take Kiev.
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All of which supports the prediction that the next offensive(s) will have to be limited geographically and in aims.
 

NotThatSoph

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VorZakone said:
Be nice if it wasn't behind a paywall.
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You can try incognito mode, then some archive shenanigans or the Bypass Paywall Clean addon on Firefox if that doesn't work.

At least one of those methods should work at most sites. A less effective one is to Google the title and click on the link from Google search.
 

VorZakone

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Frosty said:
Strange, I can read it and am not a subscriber?

The FT announced all their Ukraine reporting would be free to view for the duration, so if you cannot see it I will report it to the paper.
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I'm not in the UK if that matters.
 
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