Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

The Firestarter

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Frosty said:


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Eliminating Germany's entire nuclear industry and dramatically increasing its energy dependence just because of one incident on the other half of the globe in very particular circumstances is one of the dumbest decisions a country has taken in the last ~10 years.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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Frosty said:
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To this day, the fact that no punishment (be it sanctions or even a full embargo against separatist regions) has been dished out is the biggest travesty of all. Russia should have been punished just for that.

The Firestarter said:
Eliminating Germany's entire nuclear industry and dramatically increasing its energy dependence just because of one incident on the other half of the globe in very particular circumstances is one of the dumbest decisions a country has taken in the last ~10 years.
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Indeed. France gave the middle finger to nuclear energy critics, but then look at where they stand now as a civilian nuclear powerhouse. And if that can reassure people, the cleanup efforts in Fukushima appear to bear fruit as soil contamination and water contamination are not considered near toxic even though the cleanup process is not over according to recent studies. Looking back, I wonder how many of those anti-nuclear critics feel like fools now for perpetrating the biggest kneejerk to end all kneejerks.
 

Frosty

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Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango!

Russians still shelling continuously in the Kharkiv Oblast:



Short piece on Russian displeasure (and interference) with Kazakhstan's refusal to support Russia's invasion:

 

maniak

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I have to say I'm starting to see a kind of narrative online that I really don't like. Everyone who will be really hurt by the coming economic crisis should just suck it up because Ukrainians are having it worse. I've seen this on social media in the last few weeks in different forms. Someone who is tired of having a difficult life is being labelled as selfish or cruel.

In Portugal, when the war started, gas prices went up and the narrative was set. It was unavoidable, it's russia's fault. A couple of months into the war, the largest gas company in Portugal announced a 500% increase in profit compared to last year.

This year we're on track to have one quarter of the population below poverty line (of these, one third have full time jobs and just can't get by). Meanwhile, the number of millionaires keeps growing and growing.

Right wing populism is growing, not because of russia, but because many western governments have been absolutely negligent in helping their populations. The narrative that we all need to do sacrifices for Ukraine would stick if people saw everyone was actually making sacrifices. But it's not the case, so people are absolutely right to question governments when they say we need to keep helping Ukraine.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should, but we can also see that with the right fiscal policy, we can help Ukraine and the poorer in society. We're choosing not to, so when shit hits the fan and right wing populists start winning elections, it's because of years of not making society better and more equal, not because russia has a great propaganda machine that can trick the masses.
 

Gehrman

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frostbite said:
Putin is already at war with Europe. There is only one way to stop him

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...with-europe-there-is-only-one-way-to-stop-him

He has weaponised food, energy and refugees, spreading economic and political pain across the continent. Sanctions don’t work, a land for peace deal would be a disaster. Only the military route remains
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Great article. Still feel though that the west could do much more help Ukraine defend themselves if they weren't dragging their feet. I'm not sure I agree it would be wise to directly military intervene. My heart says yes, but my mind says don't know.
 

spiriticon

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The tide is slowly turning for Ukraine, but yeah I agree biggest threat to them right now is a cop-out from the EU and US. But we already knew that if we didn't step into the battleground ourselves, we would have to withstand a lot of economical damage. We knew this from the very start of the war, which is why I wanted to us to step in and end it quickly. I don't believe that our governments did not factor that into their calculations when they decided not to interfere militarily.

If we abandon Ukraine to Russia because of the economy, then I'm think I'm done with politics for the rest of my life.
 

frostbite

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Gehrman said:
Great article. Still feel though that the west could do much more help Ukraine defend themselves if they weren't dragging their feet. I'm not sure I agree it would be wise to directly military intervene. My heart says yes, but my mind says don't know.
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Yes, and it is very interesting that an article in the Guardian openly advocates for direct military intervention of NATO forces in Ukraine.

Today, this the only way to save Ukrainian lives. But I don't think that the current collection of Western leaders will seriously consider this. I don't even feel confident that Germany will move against Russia if Putin invades Lithuania...


I still believe that if Biden was brave enough in January and told Putin than any invasion of Ukraine would bring the full force of USAF upon them, bombing all Russian forces inside Ukraine, including Crimea... then we'd have no war today and millions of people would not lose their homes, and their lives. Putin would fume, would threaten, would say a lot of things, but we'd have no war.

However, I understand that if Biden made such a declaration in January, then a great number of people in the West would label him warmonger (perhaps myself included, because I did not believe that Putin will do what he has done in the past few months). If Biden made such a declaration back then, we'd probably have a huge wave of anti-americanism all over the world.

Well, this is an obvious case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"...
 

Zehner

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the hea said:
Relaunching 16 oil and coal powerplants while at the same time shutting down 3 perfectly working nuclear powerplants. What was the main reason for climate change now again?
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I've recently heard that they can't just make an 180 on the shutting down of nuclear plants. They'd need more preparation time for it
 

Gehrman

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frostbite said:
Yes, and it is very interesting that an article in the Guardian openly advocates for direct military intervention of NATO forces in Ukraine.

Today, this the only way to save Ukrainian lives. But I don't think that the current collection of Western leaders will seriously consider this. I don't even feel confident that Germany will move against Russia if Putin invades Lithuania...


I still believe that if Biden was brave enough in January and told Putin than any invasion of Ukraine would bring the full force of USAF upon them, bombing all Russian forces inside Ukraine, including Crimea... then we'd have no war today and millions of people would not lose their homes, and their lives. Putin would fume, would threaten, would say a lot of things, but we'd have no war.

However, I understand that if Biden made such a declaration in January, then a great number of people in the West would label him warmonger (perhaps myself included, because I did not believe that Putin will do what he has done in the past few months). If Biden made such a declaration back then, we'd probably have a huge wave of anti-americanism all over the world.

Well, this is an obvious case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"...
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100% true

But it also true that Russia and China see's The West's leaders as feckless and weak which I think is actually completely true. Still It the US were called war mongerers for giving correct Intel about Russia's plans to invade to Ukraine. I think in terms of direct military intervention, we in the west, live in an age where we don't accept casualities of our soliders. Every soldier fallen becomes a media story and that's one the reasons I think direct military interventions is the last resort from now on.
 

Beans

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the hea said:
Thread by Navalnys chief of staff on Putins strategy to scare Europe, into forcing a ceasefire upon Ukraine.
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If Russia pauses, time to take NATO troops into Ukraine, let Russia attack them in a few years if they're stupid enough.
 

TMDaines

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ShoePolish said:
Whats the deal with him anyway? He basically started this mess, but on his twitter feels like hes rooting for ukraine?
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@GirkinGirkin isn't Igor Girkin. That's a Ukrainian dude who presumably invoked his name to confuse (pro-)Russians.
 

Simbo

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TMDaines said:
@GirkinGirkin isn't Igor Girkin. That's a Ukrainian dude who presumably invoked his name to confuse (pro-)Russians.
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For real? I've seen it reported as being him but he's just pointing out Russia's failings to give them a kick up the arse or something. Or am I thinking of a different account?
 
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